Keef
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It's manly, get it together son.Way too fussy
It's manly, get it together son.Way too fussy
Per the press release, it's still going to be built at the Tahara plant.I’m guessing this will no longer be built in Japan too. Likely Mexico like the taco.
You must be joking.I'm not sure where the idea that turbo engines aren't reliable comes from
I honestly think it looks swollen, just too big and bulbous in my view. The Throttle House video highlighted how close it is to the GX and the Land Cruiser in size. I'm curious though about the engine, not just because it is a 4 cylinder, but the turbo hybrid aspect. It's a Toyota, the hybrid will work well and forever, but the turbo 4 cylinder is the worry, reliability and how much, if any, the fuel mileage will improve while off-roading. I'm sure it's been thought out and Toyota is never the one to implement new tech without thoroughly testing first.I actually don't mind the 6th gen despite what the general consensus is among that 4Runner groups I'm in. It's weird that the first thing people are complaining about is that the engine is a 4-cylinder turbo, which instantly makes it unreliable. I'm not sure where the idea that turbo engines aren't reliable comes from, but we've been putting forced induction on cars for over 100 years with turbos being present for over 50 years. I get the hybrid system is going to make people skeptical, but Toyota is the king of hybrids. If I'm going to trust anyone to make a functioning, long-lasting hybrid system, it's Toyota. Just think how much data they have just from Prius taxi cabs on severe use for hybrids.
The 4Runner has pretty much been hoisted into the Wrangler/Bronco specialty off-roading segment. It will be expensive, but they will sell like hotcakes. Their top end SUVs seem to all hold the same space. I'm curious too how the resale value will hold up with the new ones.My biggest problem with the new 4Runner is going to be the price. The MSRP is going to be expensive and the dealer markups are going to be insane. The Trailhunter will easily be over $100k with dealer markups and that makes pretty much zero sense. With the Land Cruiser starting at $55k and the Sequoia starting at $61k, I'm guessing the 4Runner will start somewhere around $45k for an SR5 and that's probably even too expensive.
I mean, I've driven old Volvos with over 200k miles on them, and they're still kicking with their original turbos.You must be joking.
Ford has been doing Ecoboosts for a decade now and they're still not as dead-nuts as the base V8s for longevity. Honda and Hyundai have had turbo problems. There are early reports that Hurricanes are having problems. BMW's first-generation N54 twin-turbski engine had all sorts of problems which is funny because it also won a bunch of awards.
The only thing that's guaranteed with this new drivetrain is the hybrid system. Toyota has done very well with those. Besides that, I guarantee that my 2UZ with 210,000 miles on it will outlast these brand new turbo 4s without needing non-wear-item maintenace.
Fuel economy cannot be any worse than the 1GR that struggles to hit 17mpg on the highway. My guess is the 8-speed transmission is going to help with the fuel economy and it'll probably be close to the Tacoma, so probably 20/25 instead of 16/19 it gets now. That would be a huge improvement.I honestly think it looks swollen, just too big and bulbous in my view. The Throttle House video highlighted how close it is to the GX and the Land Cruiser in size. I'm curious though about the engine, not just because it is a 4 cylinder, but the turbo hybrid aspect. It's a Toyota, the hybrid will work well and forever, but the turbo 4 cylinder is the worry, reliability and how much, if any, the fuel mileage will improve while off-roading. I'm sure it's been thought out and Toyota is never the one to implement new tech without thoroughly testing first.
The 4Runner attempts to compete with the Wrangler and Bronco when it comes to off-road but it always comes up short. It's not a bad thing though, the 4Runner is lightyears better on the road than a Wrangler or Bronco. But off the pavement, with the same driver, a Wrangler and a Bronco are going to tackle harder obstacles with less trouble.The 4Runner has pretty much been hoisted into the Wrangler/Bronco specialty off-roading segment. It will be expensive, but they will sell like hotcakes. Their top end SUVs seem to all hold the same space. I'm curious too how the resale value will hold up with the new ones.
I'm not seeing how these are related...or even how the Porsche anecdote even applies? Toyota has a proven reliability record because they specify high quality components and have high standard specifications, good test practices, and great quality control. This presumably applies to new powertrains just as much as it does to older ones.@Joey D I agree that people shouldn't be writing it off altogether but the fact is that the powertrain is unproven. Toyota has established tremendously high standards for truck drivetrain reliability, perhaps unprecedented standards considering their sales numbers, so the market expects perfection and change is scary.
It's kinda like how a few Porsche engines had bore scoring problems and now literally every owner of those engines from that era demands a thorough inspection for fear that every single one is a timebomb. It's ridiculous, but that's how high the expectations are.
My only point is one of perception. Customers perceive Toyota truck engines to be reliable, and they associate that with the fact that they never change. Change it and boom the connection is gone and they can no longer trust it.I'm not seeing how these are related...or even how the Porsche anecdote even applies? Toyota has a proven reliability record because they specify high quality components and have high standard specifications, good test practices, and great quality control. This presumably applies to new powertrains just as much as it does to older ones.
Porsche's M96 engine program represented Porsche straying from basically everything they had ever done, including outsourcing engine design (ironically, partially to Toyota) and fabrication to plants in other countries as well as poor spec on metallurgy, mostly because Porsche couldn't really afford to do better at the time.
I think a lot of it is due to so many 4Runner enthusiasts being absolute Luddites, especially on the internet. I'm on the various 4Runner forums and groups pretty frequently and it always seems like there's a boomer level of hate towards anything with technology.@Joey D I agree that people shouldn't be writing it off altogether but the fact is that the powertrain is unproven. Toyota has established tremendously high standards for truck drivetrain reliability, perhaps unprecedented standards considering their sales numbers, so the market expects perfection and change is scary.
It's kinda like how a few Porsche engines had bore scoring problems and now literally every owner of those engines from that era demands a thorough inspection for fear that every single one is a timebomb. It's ridiculous, but that's how high the expectations are.
Toyota's bean counters:I'm kind of confused about why the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, and GX exist all simultaneously. This is like Toyota's version of Sonata, Azera/Grandeur, Genesis.
You won't be able to load anything in the new 4Runner anyway. The payload capacity is like 850lbs.Also, why do all of these massive SUV-ified trucks have absolutely no load floor capability? Why can't anyone make seats like the now-ancient LR4 that fold completely flat?
I'd guess something to do with the packaging differences between a live rear axle (Toyota) and independent rear suspension (LR4).I'm kind of confused about why the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, and GX exist all simultaneously. This is like Toyota's version of Sonata, Azera/Grandeur, Genesis.
So far, all I'm understanding is that you should buy a Land Cruiser unless you surf and need a 4runner for the rolly window.
Also, why do all of these massive SUV-ified trucks have absolutely no load floor capability? Why can't anyone make seats like the now-ancient LR4 that fold completely flat?
They're SUVs, they're designed to carry people and gear, not industrial loads of lumber. See my Sequoia squatting hard with 800 pounds of crap in the back despite stiffer lift springs.Also, why do all of these massive SUV-ified trucks have absolutely no load floor capability? Why can't anyone make seats like the now-ancient LR4 that fold completely flat?
Its related. If you look at the bare chassis of something like an LR4, you'll see that the bottom of the unibody is actually flat and the interior space is very tall...because its not sitting on a separate frame. Its all one plane, meaning that you can mount the rear seats in such a way that you can fold them flat and you still have adequate vertical height.Yeah but I'm talking about the seat mechanism. No reason they couldn't fold them to the floor. In fact, the only reason it's not in everything is probably because it's patented.
I own enough Toyota stock to be confident that [many] people will pay this much for a TRD Tacoma, but I'm beginning to wonder when Toyota fatigue is going to set in. They've had it all their own way for 10 years or so now, and this pricing is reflective of their cult status. How long can it last? I think the other question is who is paying for all these expensive cars? A Tacoma seems decidedly middle class, but median income in the US as of 2023 is $74,580 - in 1998 it was $38,885I’m seriously not trying to be funny or silly when I say, which of those two cars are more valuable? In terms of what both cars can do, the TRD should actually cost more.
I’ve been asking that question since I started working. I know Toyota fatigue won’t settle here in Australia.I own enough Toyota stock to be confident that [many] people will pay this much for a TRD Tacoma, but I'm beginning to wonder when Toyota fatigue is going to set in. They've had it all their own way for 10 years or so now, and this pricing is reflective of their cult status. How long can it last? I think the other question is who is paying for all these expensive cars? A Tacoma seems decidedly middle class, but median income in the US as of 2023 is $74,580 - in 1998 it was $38,885
So a TRD Tacoma went from 64% of median household income to nearly 90%. Cars are so odd. Whereas most other technology tends to go down in price (relative to inflation, or absolutely, or both) as it matures, cars seem to defy that and are outrunning inflation, at least at the moment.