The Generation Game: BMW Z

[Liquid]

The Generation Game: BMW Z

The Z1.
The Z3.
The Z8.
The Z4.

All of them.

1989-1991 BMW Z1

Bodystyle: 2-door convetible
Engine: 2.5L I6
Drivetrain: FR
Weight: 1,250kg / 2,760lbs

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1995-2002 BMW Z3

Bodystyles: 2-door convetible, 3-door shooting brake
Engines: 1.8 - 1.9L I4; 2.0 - 3.2L V6
Drivetrain: FR
Weight: ~1,250kg / 2,760lbs

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2000-2003 BMW Z8

Bodystyle: 2-door convetible
Engine: 4.9L V8
Drivetrain: FR
Weight: ~1,585kg / 3,494lbs

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2003-2008 BMW Z4 (E85 / E86)

Bodystyles: 2-door convetible, 2-door coupe
Engine: 2.0L I4; 2.2 - 3.2L I6
Drivetrain: FR
Weight: ~1,300kg / 2,860lbs

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2009-2016 BMW Z4 (E89)

Bodystyle: 2-door convetible
Engine: 2.0L turbocharged I4; 2.5 - 3.0L I6; 3.0L twin-turbocharged I6
Drivetrain: FR
Weight: ~1,500kg / 3,300lbs

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2018-present BMW Z4 (G29)

Bodystyle: 2-door convetible
Engine: 2.0L turbocharged I4; 3.0L turbocharged I6
Drivetrain: FR
Weight: ~1,450kg / 3,190lbs

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Previous Results & Nominations Thread

 

[Tornado]

where's the A90

 

[TumeK5]

where's the A90

That one ain't a convetible

 

[05XR8]

Voted Z1. It’s like a baby 850 and respects its elders with a Turbo, M1 and Nazca style front end. The top should never be up.

 

[Liquid]

where's the A90

Left on a scrap of paper labelled "terrible, half-arsed ideas" if I had my way.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I don't think the Z8 makes any sense here. It's not really a generation of the same lineage, it didn't target the same customer or the same market space and was sold alongside two of the other cars in the poll.

But yeah, Z8, obviously.

 

[TheCracker]

As above, Z8 is totally out of place within this poll but despite never being a massive fan of it, its the best of the bunch.

The Z1 stands out for being different, but it was never a great sportscar even in its day and never quite looked 'right', there was always something a bit off with how it was styled IMO.

I'd vote for the Z3 just for the MCoupe, but a vote for that would also be a vote for the basic 1.8 4cyl, which was trash.

The E89 Z4 had the looks, but was the wrong 6cyl German sportscar.

 

[lilcat89]

As above, Z8 is totally out of place within this poll but despite never being a massive fan of it, its the best of the bunch.

Its certainly not the best of the bunch. It is a pretty shape, but underneath, it is a parts bin special. I have driven a few Z8s in my dealership days and they drive horribly. The chassis is sloppier than the 645ci convertibles that came later. The S62B50 is also the least Motorsport engine BMW has ever made. Simply a stroked, ITB version of the M62B44. I never understood the use case for the Z8, but the values have held unbelievably well.

The Z1 stands out for being different, but it was never a great sportscar even in its day and never quite looked 'right', there was always something a bit off with how it was styled IMO.

It was never imported here, into the US until after the 25 year rule. It should be better, since its essentially an E30 325i underneath. the sliding doors are a novelty at first, but I have luckily had some seat time in a couple of them and they doors do get old after a while. They arent terrible though.

I'd vote for the Z3 just for the MCoupe, but a vote for that would also be a vote for the basic 1.8 4cyl, which was trash.

The early roadsters never looked right from the rear, but the later ones got better. The clownshoe is rare in that the C-pillar doesnt have a Hoffmeister kink. The E34 Touring is the only other BMW without it. The Z3 is also weird in that the front is E36, but the rear is all E30 components.

The E89 Z4 had the looks, but was the wrong 6cyl German sportscar.

I would agree. The E89 certainly look and drives the best, but it never got a decent engine in it. I always hoped that it would get the S65B40 or even the S55 out of the M2. What was the correct 6cyl German sportscar?

My vote goes to the E85 Z4. This generation is probably the best all-around roadster from BMW. It was all based on the E46 3er, which means it had a fantastic chassis and classic BMW engine masterpieces under the long hood. The E85 also has the honor of being the last BMW with an actual ignition key.

 

[Tornado]

Its certainly not the best of the bunch. It is a pretty shape, but underneath, it is a parts bin special. I have driven a few Z8s in my dealership days and they drive horribly.

That's a strange stick to beat the Z8 with (noting that I'm also not sure it belongs in this poll) considering how hopeless all of the other Z cars could be for the same reason until the current car came out designed from the start to be what it is.

The S62B50 is also the least Motorsport engine BMW has ever made.

To say nothing of the "designed for diesel" stigma that dogged the S58 that's in use right now as soon as it was announced.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm not going to vote for the Z8 because it's a much different thing, though I do like it a lot. The Z1 was an odd duck. The G29 looks so boring but does have the best looking softop.

I like the Z3 (E36) and I like the E85 and I like the E89.

Of those 3:

E36 has the best styling - but has a super compromised chassis and I don't like the interior at all.

E85 has the best interior styling but the quality is pretty low (I cross shopped one with the 986 I ended up buying and the Z4's dull dynamics and cheap feeling interior put me off). I also hate how the softop on the E85 looks like a tent.

E89 has the best interior of those 3 but I don't love the folding hardtop. The styling is actually pretty good, and as I've said recently one of the rare contemporary sports car that has classical proportions (relatively long and narrow).

To be honest, I don't think there's ever been a killer-app BMW Z, but an E89 Z4 35i probably gets the most right, for me - less of a sports car and more of a sporty GT roadster, somewhere between MX5 and Mercedes SL.

I never understood the use case for the Z8, but the values have held unbelievably well.

Never underestimate the power of extreme prettyness.

 

[MatskiMonk]

but underneath, it is a parts bin special

Really, which other cars were built on the same platform?

 

[TheCracker]

Its certainly not the best of the bunch. It is a pretty shape, but underneath, it is a parts bin special.

Well, they're all (the Zeds) parts-bin specials to one degree or the other. That's always been the case with broadly spanning manufacturer's sportscars.

What was the correct 6cyl German sportscar?

The Boxster.

I'll often see a 6cyl Z4 or an AMG SLK and think 'that would make a nice useable sportscar', and i'd be right. But you'd always have that niggling feeling that a Boxster/Cayman of the same era would have just been a better drive, and that's really the whole point of sportscars.



I always wondered why the Z1 didn't come with the E30 M3's S14. A shorter, lighter engine would have surely suited it better and given it better sporting credentials in the showroom. Probably down to costs.

 

[lilcat89]

Well, they're all (the Zeds) parts-bin specials to one degree or the other. That's always been the case with broadly spanning manufacturer's sportscars.

That is certainly true. They are for the most part derived from sedans and not built as a roadster first and foremost, like the MX-5 or Boxster.

The Boxster.

I'll often see a 6cyl Z4 or an AMG SLK and think 'that would make a nice useable sportscar', and i'd be right. But you'd always have that niggling feeling that a Boxster/Cayman of the same era would have just been a better drive, and that's really the whole point of sportscars.

I see what you are getting at. I never really considered the Boxster in the same segment as the Z4 or SLK. Objectively, the Boxster/Cayman is a better drive, but to me, the point of sportscars is feeling special. As well as putting a smile on your face whenever you drive it, which the Boxster doesn't really do for me, even though I do like them. Joy, I guess, is subjective.

I always wondered why the Z1 didn't come with the E30 M3's S14. A shorter, lighter engine would have surely suited it better and given it better sporting credentials in the showroom. Probably down to costs.

Perhaps that was the case. I suspect the Z1 was really just a small test to see if BMW could build a roadster and be profitable while doing it.

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Really, which other cars were built on the same platform?

Its a reworked E39/E38 platform underneath. All of the subframes and components are interchangeable between the E39 5 series and the Z8. I guess I was just expecting the Z8 to be more special than it really was for the $200k price. Then again, BMW doesn't do special one-off cars.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Its a reworked E39/E38 platform underneath. All of the subframes and components are interchangeable between the E39 5 series and the Z8. I guess I was just expecting the Z8 to be more special than it really was for the $200k price. Then again, BMW doesn't do special one-off cars.

I mean, fair enough (that's not my understanding of it - I didn't think the front sub-frame is the same, but obviously there's component sharing in the suspension), but the chassis that's bolted to the carriers is a hand made aluminium affair unique to the Z8, is it not? It just seems a bit reductive to call it a parts bin car when it's more unique than something like the M5 to M6 would be (or in fact most of the CLAR or UKL based cars would have been), and people don't tend to refer to that relationship as parts bin.

 

[Liquid]

I understand people's opinions on the inclusion of the Z8 in here but for what it's worth, BMW treats the Z series, where Z stands for Zukunft (future) for some reason, as one model/range. If I was stricter, this would probably have to be a poll for just Z4s because none of the others had two generations with their names. Otherwise there'd never be scope for the Z1, Z3 and Z8 to be polled; a Z3 isn't a Z4 nor is a Z1 a Z4. We've had other polls with overlapping cars before so it's not a first.

tl;dr - BMW treats them all as being in the same model line, the Z series, so... which one is the best? Simple as that.

On the polling, we've got two James Bond cars here. He doesn't even bother with the Z3, Jack Wade uses it more than he is shown doing but the GoldenEye effect is strong. It's very good looking. From what I remember, the Z8 in The World's Not Enough was a pre-production model that couldn't even be driven so it also wasn't actually used that much and got disappointingly cut up very anti-climactically. So compared to Tomorrow Never Dies' 750, they're both really disappointing.

It's the Z8 for me though. It's a lovely homage to the ultra-rare BMW 507, one of the most beautiful cars ever made, and it still looks great today. It's like a German TVR Griffith but with better build quality. On the others, I'd rather have an M Coupe than a Z3 and the Z4 has some interesting motorsports pedigree but it just doesn't grip me as a car I'd like to try.

 

[Tornado]

BMW gave them a couple pre-production ones for the glamour shots like they had for Goldeneye (that's why in Goldeneye it basically just gets used to drive through a field). The ones they cut up were Cobra kit cars with Jaguar suspension and a Z8 body on it.


I remember reading about in Car and Driver.