The highway/motorway Speed Limit

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Originally posted by ExigeExcel
I think the Germans are abit extreme. The no-limit on the Autobahn seems crazy. Any idea how they patrol it, what teh rules are for driving on it. I have done some searchs but it came up in german mainly.

We have many speed limits. On Autobahnen too (is that < d-english or what :lol: ). Only on long straights we can drive as fast as the car allows.

When my father and I were going to Spa, I had breakfast at 315 km/h :trouble:
 
Originally posted by GentlemanDriver
We have many speed limits. On Autobahnen too (is that < d-english or what :lol: ). Only on long straights we can drive as fast as the car allows.

When my father and I were going to Spa, I had breakfast at 315 km/h :trouble:

At 315 km/h (196mph) I'd be more worried about what was coming out of my alimentary canal, not what was going in to it...
 
Originally posted by Famine
At 315 km/h (196mph) I'd be more worried about what was coming out of my alimentary canal, not what was going in to it...
Your ear?!
:confused:
 
Originally posted by M5Power


The worst part about California is that a 16-year-old can drive alone. How pathetic. Nobody under the age of 18 is competent to operate a motor vehicle, and even then it's risky until about 20. Only the rental car companies have it right.

No one under 18, huh? So, you're saying people should have to be 18 before they can get to school withough having to have their parents hire a driver to drive them around? And forget working, right? And you know what else, I'm sick of you making these totally opinionated statements toward everyone like you're some kind of high and mighty superior being. Guess what, you're actually an idiot and a jackass.
 
Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
Guess what, you're actually an idiot and a jackass.

Maybe you should calm down and accept that he's right, because between the two of you, he wasn't the one who parked his Miata in a ditch trying to be cool.


///M-Spec
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Maybe you should calm down and accept that he's right, because between the two of you, he wasn't the one who parked his Miata in a ditch trying to be cool.
:lol: Ha ha!

And, interestingly, I've had a similar change in attitude that you've had... I used to think speed limits were ridiculously silly, but in the past few months I've seen them as a way to keep the stupid paying. Of course, I think it should be marginally higher&ndash;I think 70 would be an appropriate speed for most freeways&ndash;but I regress.
 
Originally posted by Sage
I think 70 would be an appropriate speed for most freeways&ndash;but I regress.

Yea, allowing states to determine the speed limit was the best choice. We have 70 in Florida for much of our interstates. Out in places like Texas or Nevada I don't understand why its not 80 or even 85. But speed limits are always chosen down to the lowest common denominator.

You have to imagine what near-blind Gramps in his 84 Ford LTD towing a Streamliner can manage to cope with.


///M-Spec

BTW, Sage.. I think you mean digress, not regress ;)
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
BTW, Sage.. I think you mean digress, not regress ;)
:O Heh... I knew regress didn't sound right, but I knew the word I was looking for ended in "gress".
 
Originally posted by GentlemanDriver
When my father and I were going to Spa, I had breakfast at 315 km/h

Originally posted by ExigeExcel
can i ask what you were driving?
I hope he wasn't!! :eek: Driving and eating breakfast at the same time while doing 315 km/h!!
 
Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
No one under 18, huh? So, you're saying people should have to be 18 before they can get to school withough having to have their parents hire a driver to drive them around? And forget working, right? And you know what else, I'm sick of you making these totally opinionated statements toward everyone like you're some kind of high and mighty superior being. Guess what, you're actually an idiot and a jackass.

:lol:

Sorry if I've insulted you since you're under 18 or 20 or whatever, but it's difficult to argue against this (similar to the hybrid car thread). 92% of all accidents 15-19yo US drivers are in is their fault. 7547 road fatalities involved teen driving in 2000, so let's assume that there were 20,000 total teen-involved accidents that same year (it's probably much higher, but I don't care). That means 92% - or 18400 of those accidents - could've been prevented by raising the driving age to 20. Worse, it means that 6943 fatal accidents could've been prevented.

The worst statistic is that more than half of the fatal wrecks teenagers are involved in are one-car wrecks, and more than half of those are on a straight, two-lane road. That proves the sort of experience that teen drivers have.

I realising raising the driving age to 20 would be an inconvenience for you and your parents, but I guarantee it's more than an inconvenience when you're killed by some inexperienced teen driver who thinks he's got a handle on things. We're talking preventable deaths here, and if I were your age, I'd gladly surrender my license or my permit.
 
Sorry if I've insulted you since you're under 18 or 20 or whatever, but it's difficult to argue against this (similar to the hybrid car thread). 92% of all accidents 15-19yo US drivers are in is their fault. 7547 road fatalities involved teen driving in 2000, so let's assume that there were 20,000 total teen-involved accidents that same year (it's probably much higher, but I don't care). That means 92% - or 18400 of those accidents - could've been prevented by raising the driving age to 20. Worse, it means that 6943 fatal accidents could've been prevented.

The worst statistic is that more than half of the fatal wrecks teenagers are involved in are one-car wrecks, and more than half of those are on a straight, two-lane road. That proves the sort of experience that teen drivers have.

I realising raising the driving age to 20 would be an inconvenience for you and your parents, but I guarantee it's more than an inconvenience when you're killed by some inexperienced teen driver who thinks he's got a handle on things. We're talking preventable deaths here, and if I were your age, I'd gladly surrender my license or my permit.


I understand your argument, but here is a question I would like to put forward. Is it the immaturity of the driver that causes the crash, or is it the in-experience?
If it was down to in-experience, just raising the age limit would make little difference. I dont know where you got the stats from, but if you could bring up the stats for accidents for new drivers over the age of twenty I would be much obliged.
 
Yes, exactly. It's not the age. If the limit was 25, then we'd have 25 year olds being just as bad as 16 year olds are today. A 20 year old isn't better because he's four years older than a 16 year old, it's because he has four years of driving to the 16 year old's few months.

And for many people, including myself, not driving is not an inconvienence, it makes things impossible. I live in the Hollywood Hills. Downtown burbank, where I'll be working, is a 10 minute drive away. But to use the mass transit system would require first a 20 minute walk to the closest bus station, and then a 2-3 HOUR bus ride. I have taken this route, I am not kidding or exagerating. It makes the possibility of working utterly rediculous, because transit time is longer than time spent at work. Without a license, I would be sitting at home all day, doing nothing.

And how about school? My school was even worse. Number one, when I was in school, taking the school bus would have meant driving with heavy, LA, rush hour traffic, in the opposite direction from school to get to the bus stop, than enduring a long (an hour or more) bus ride. I would have had to leave the house at 5AM to be at school on time.
 
Originally posted by ExigeExcel
I understand your argument, but here is a question I would like to put forward. Is it the immaturity of the driver that causes the crash, or is it the in-experience?

My idea is that we have 18-year-old drivers be allowed to get permits and can only drive when a parent or licenced driver over 25 is in the car. Once they reach age 20, then they can apply for a licence which they can earn once passing a rigourous exam similar to those in European countries.

The largest factor in teen driving deaths is inexperience. If we adopted my idea, drivers would have two years of driving with their parent/guardian, making them hugely more experienced. According to the NHTSA: "By making it so easy to get a driver license_by literally handing teenagers the car keys without requiring an extended period of supervised practice-driving time_we are setting them up for the risk of making a fatal mistake."

The second-largest factor in teen driving deaths is risk-taking behavior and immaturity, coupled with teens driving with other teens which greatly increases risk of a crash. Because of a lack of attention to the road, high-risk driving behavior like speeding and reckless driving, and the natural teen behavior to make impulsive, unpredictable decisions, crashes occur. Implement my idea, and nobody under 20 is driving alone, almost fully eliminating all above concerns.

Yes, exactly. It's not the age. If the limit was 25, then we'd have 25 year olds being just as bad as 16 year olds are today. A 20 year old isn't better because he's four years older than a 16 year old, it's because he has four years of driving to the 16 year old's few months.

Right - and all sixteen-year-olds know a 20-year-old is just as mature as they are. ;)

I live in the Hollywood Hills. Downtown burbank, where I'll be working, is a 10 minute drive away. But to use the mass transit system would require first a 20 minute walk to the closest bus station, and then a 2-3 HOUR bus ride.

Whoa! 2-3 HOURS! How long would that be on a bicycle? Or, better yet, walking? How about a scooter? A Segway! You could jog, or skip, even! You could have somebody drive you! Parents? Neighbors? Older friends? You could take a taxi, or a limo.
 
Originally posted by M5Power
My idea is that we have 18-year-old drivers be allowed to get permits and can only drive when a parent or licenced driver over 25 is in the car. Once they reach age 20, then they can apply for a licence which they can earn once passing a rigourous exam similar to those in European countries.

This is not a bad idea at all. It would certainly cut down on the number of backward hat wearing chumps who can barely see over the steering wheel crowding my space.

However, this assumes the older supervisor will bother to pass on good habits to the newbie. There are plenty of people twice the age of 18 who still haven't got the vaguest notion how to drive a car yet we still license them. One tried to run me off the road last week.

Instead, we should require real, honest to goodness intensive training instead of the ridiculous Mickey Mouse instruction we have today. A week long course with professional instructors like the ones in they have in Germany would be a good place to start. It costs a couple of thousand Euros to get a license there, including a school (a real one, not this Romper-Room crap we have in the States) and on road instruction time. The testers are much more critical and almost eager to fail you for doing something dumb.

Of course, this would never fly in the States. Not two seconds would pass before someone cried "discrimination against the economically underpriviledged" or similar nonsense.


///M-Spec
 
Whoa! 2-3 HOURS! How long would that be on a bicycle? Or, better yet, walking? How about a scooter? A Segway! You could jog, or skip, even! You could have somebody drive you! Parents? Neighbors? Older friends? You could take a taxi, or a limo. [/B][/QUOTE]

It'd probably be about 30-45 min on a bike, over an hour to walk. Add half that more for the way back, as it's mostly uphill. And I'd be practically dead by the time I got there. Not to mention I'd not be able to make it anyway, as I was badly injured a few years ago and have never really recovered (hit by a car).

As for eighbors, Friends and Family, they all have better things to do than drive me to work. And besides, how many 16 year olds have 20 somehting friends (well, I did, but I'm wierd that way, I always got along better with people substatially older than myself) who can drive them around?

And I hate to tell you, but this is LA, not Manhattan. You can't walk to the corner and hail a cab. You have to call one. Think about it: at $10 a trip (a conservative estimate), twice a day, that's $400-$500 a month to get to work / school and back. For school, how many people have that kind of money, and for work, it's rediculous, that's half an average teenager's salary!



Let me add, though, I do agree with better instruction. Many racing schools have schools for teen drivers, where they can learn what the limits of a car are, how to control it as any speed, and how to avoid an accident. That should be manditory. And I know that would have kept me from totaling my Miata.

Which leads to another thing, there should be tracks open to the public. Not just drag strips or ovals, either, real tracks. In Japan, there are a multitude of such tracks, where for a moderate fee, you can drive and race as much as you want. Things like that would drastically cut down street racing in the US, just like they did in Japan. I know many people who street race who would stop if there were an alternative.


Another thing, I know many 16 yearolds who are much more mature than many of the 20 year olds that I know. The change of a digit to 2 does not magically signify a leap in maturity.

Also, there is a very logical reason that the driving ages throughout the US are, at most, 18: college. At 18, the average kid goes off to college. And where will the parents be to teach them how to drive? People have to be able to drive before college, or else we'll end up with millions of 22 year old college graduates who have never been behind the wheel of a car.
 
as mentioned, I don't think having adult supervision is any good. How many people would honestly waste their time helping a 18 yr old drive? first they would probably fall asleep on the journeys, second, if they do stay awake, (as mentioned previousley) they may pass on bad habits. Worst thing woudl be if the driver under supervision was being taught by a street racer.
How would you regalate who would supervise the driver? You can't trust one person to do all the baby sitting. And you can't trust there to be a responsible adult teaching.
 
Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara

It'd probably be about 30-45 min on a bike, over an hour to walk. Add half that more for the way back, as it's mostly uphill. And I'd be practically dead by the time I got there. Not to mention I'd not be able to make it anyway, as I was badly injured a few years ago and have never really recovered (hit by a car).

As for eighbors, Friends and Family, they all have better things to do than drive me to work. And besides, how many 16 year olds have 20 somehting friends (well, I did, but I'm wierd that way, I always got along better with people substatially older than myself) who can drive them around?

And I hate to tell you, but this is LA, not Manhattan. You can't walk to the corner and hail a cab. You have to call one. Think about it: at $10 a trip (a conservative estimate), twice a day, that's $400-$500 a month to get to work / school and back. For school, how many people have that kind of money, and for work, it's rediculous, that's half an average teenager's salary!


Well, what a shame. It's an inconvenience. I don't know how in the hell something is ten minutes by car and 45 minutes by bicycle, but I'm through arguing your specific case. Surprisingly, you made it to 16 without driving, I'm sure you can manage for two more years.

And I hate to tell you, but this is LA, not Manhattan. You can't walk to the corner and hail a cab. You have to call one.

Duh? And your "conservative estimate" regarding taxi fares is scary. First, if it's $10/day, how the hell is it $400-$500/month? Which months have fifty days? Taxi fare is $2.30 for the first 90 seconds and $.30 for every 45 seconds beyond that. By your own admission, your drive to work is a ten minutes, meaning your cab fare is just $5.75 or so per ride.

Not that I care. ///M-Spec has probably got it right on both the professional instructors and that it would never fly in the US. But by NO circumstances should anybody under the age of 18 be operating a car, full stop.

And where will the parents be to teach them how to drive? People have to be able to drive before college, or else we'll end up with millions of 22 year old college graduates who have never been behind the wheel of a car.

Oh darn! What a shame. I said one can drive with any licenced driver over the age of 25. And if you still don't like it, then take my idea about 18 for a permit and 20 for a licence and add ///M-Spec's idea about professional instructors. That probably takes care of it.

How many people would honestly waste their time helping a 18 yr old drive?

Agreed, but we've been doing it for at least five decades in this country, and - despite the number of teen traffic accidents actually rising - everybody thinks it works.
 
Originally posted by ExigeExcel
as mentioned, I don't think having adult supervision is any good. How many people would honestly waste their time helping a 18 yr old drive? first they would probably fall asleep on the journeys, second, if they do stay awake, (as mentioned previousley) they may pass on bad habits. Worst thing woudl be if the driver under supervision was being taught by a street racer.
How would you regalate who would supervise the driver? You can't trust one person to do all the baby sitting. And you can't trust there to be a responsible adult teaching.

In the UK a learner driver - regardless of age - can only be supervised by an adult over the age of 21 who has held a full UK Driving Licence for 3 or more years.
 
I got a ticket for going 100+ in the middle of nowhere in Arizona in the middle of the night. The cop said cattle roam accros the road and you can't see them until it's too late. I tried to imagine seeing a cow come into view when your going 100+. You'd be pretty screwed, as would the cow.

Ground beef comes to mind... and ground car and ground human, too.
 
Originally posted by M5Power


Duh? And your "conservative estimate" regarding taxi fares is scary. First, if it's $10/day, how the hell is it $400-$500/month? Which months have fifty days? Taxi fare is $2.30 for the first 90 seconds and $.30 for every 45 seconds beyond that. By your own admission, your drive to work is a ten minutes, meaning your cab fare is just $5.75 or so per ride.
[/B]

Because, like I said, THIS ISN'T Manhattan! Number one, I said $10 a trip, that's two trips a day. Two, like I said, you have to CALL a cab to come and pick you up. That's already five or six bucks flat rate before you set foot in the cab. I know, I've had to do it once or twice.

But by NO circumstances should anybody under the age of 18 be operating a car, full stop.

Stop saying that like it's a fact. It's your opinion . So stop acting like you know better than the people who make the laws.
 
Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
Yes, exactly. It's not the age. If the limit was 25, then we'd have 25 year olds being just as bad as 16 year olds are today. A 20 year old isn't better because he's four years older than a 16 year old, it's because he has four years of driving to the 16 year old's few months.

And for many people, including myself, not driving is not an inconvienence, it makes things impossible. I live in the Hollywood Hills. Downtown burbank, where I'll be working, is a 10 minute drive away. But to use the mass transit system would require first a 20 minute walk to the closest bus station, and then a 2-3 HOUR bus ride. I have taken this route, I am not kidding or exagerating. It makes the possibility of working utterly rediculous, because transit time is longer than time spent at work. Without a license, I would be sitting at home all day, doing nothing.

And how about school? My school was even worse. Number one, when I was in school, taking the school bus would have meant driving with heavy, LA, rush hour traffic, in the opposite direction from school to get to the bus stop, than enduring a long (an hour or more) bus ride. I would have had to leave the house at 5AM to be at school on time.

i have to somewhat agree with your post, im surprised.
 
Stop saying that like it's a fact. It's your opinion. So stop acting like you know better than the people who make the laws.

:D

How come 16-year-old American kids need drivers' licences when 16-year-old European kids seem to do fine without them?
 
I'd like to see the US implement a system like what we have here in Ontario. Better yet, I'd like Ontario to raise the age or the time to wait between the 3 tests. The 1 year wait after the first license still allows moronic high school brats to go onto highways and start playing cops n robbers...or back when i was in the US, Car Hopping :eek: (someone in my bro's high school fell out of the car doing it)

btw, I don't see how ANY high school kid needs a car...do any of you guys see the need? I mean, schools ALREADY provide transportation or the parents always arrange for something.

I got my license in high school, yes, now that I look back at it, I was too damn reckless just a year ago. Hell, when I was in Co-op and my mom was bed-ridden, I had to drive to my workplace because a ride wasn't available to me. I drove VERY recklessly in that time especially (I changed a LOT after my brother nearly lost his license). Yes, a bus was available to me, but the schedule for all 4 stops in the area didn't coincide within the hour I had to get to my workplace (1 hour lunch period at school).

Another thing...I know too damn many people in 9th grade that are on some drug or another - they smoke, drink, do e, you name it - My sister is currently in 10th grade. She knows people that show up at school blasted. HELL NO do I wan't people like THAT driving the same roads I do - let them kill themselves off from the stupid things they like to do first before they kill me on the road.
 
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