"The Homemades"; Build Your Own Sportscar for £1000 ($1800)

[YSSMAN]

I don't know how many of you recieve Car and Driver magazine or read it on a regular basis, but in their most recent issue they highlight a growing trend both in the United Kingdom and in the United States that follows the notion of the book Build Your Own Sportscar for £250 - And Race It.

The baisic concept is to build what is commonly known as a "LOCOST," a spinoff of the word "Lotus" in reference to the fact that it is baisically a Lotus 7 on the cheap.

...I'm interested in what you all think, just as a general discussion I suppose. I'm very interested in this whole thing now that I have read up on it, but I doubt I have the funds to do it.

I was thinking VW power on an MG-designed chassis, but the whole things is obviously a very long process to get anything remotely ready. Chat it up, ideas across eachother. I find it very interesting myself, so if I had some cash, I'm sure I'd be doing it by now...

 

[JCE]

Pics please. I choose not to buy American auto publications as they are overly biased and etc etc.

 

[opendriver]

You mean this?

You can either build it yourself or buy one fully assenbeled
Theres tons of engine options and you CAN do it in a small shop on a fairly moderate budget

 

[YSSMAN]

I guess photos would have helped in this thread...

The story can be found in this issue of Car and Driver on page 115...

...And this would be one of the as-tested "Locosts" (Built by Keith Tanner)

^ His cost just over $10,000 using a doner '91 Mazda Miata MX-5 with a few extra parts. The car is pretty fast for $10,000;

0-60 in 4.7 sec, 0-100 in 14.8 sec, 70-0 in 141 ft, .98 on the skidpad.

My favorite enginnering model (we are going to have to wait a while until the pictures are posted on C/D.com) was built buy Chris Fiaccone. He custom built the chassis himself, and used a Honda CBR900 for the engine and transmission, parts of the suspension, etc. Unfortunately it broke before testing, so no offical numbers were posted. Cost? $7970...

However, the cheapest model there (and argueably the most reasonable of all the models) was built by Jon Winterhalter and his son using a hand-built chassis, the majority of mechanicals comming from an '80 BMW 320i. Total cost? $2500.

0-60 MPH in 7.8 seconds and can pull 1.0g on the skidpad. Its a fun car to drive, not necessiarily the fastest one out there. But it goes to show what can be done...

 

[Wolfe]

Yeah, I was familiar with Locosts long before I read that article. The Lotus/Caterham 7 is a remarkable machine...building one yourself for cheap is one of the best (if not practical) ideas ever.

My favorite from that article is Jon Winterhalter's BMW, because it's pretty much just my car turned into a 7, and I've been thinking about doing the same exact thing when my car is about ready to die.

That won't be happening any time soon, so I have plenty of time to think about it...

 

[Onikaze]

Pics please. I choose not to buy American auto publications as they are overly biased and etc etc.

Ironic.

I'd love to get an old 5.0 Mustang and try to build a Locost with a 302 crammed in it.

 

[Poverty]

Ironic.

I'd love to get an old 5.0 Mustang and try to build a Locost with a 302 crammed in it.

lol something tells me that the balance wouldnt be too good but plenty og ooooomph.

 

[Jim Prower]

lol something tells me that the balance wouldnt be too good but plenty og ooooomph.

well, concidering how a 302 probably would sit mostly behind the front wheels, that might not be an issue. after all, it's not longer than a four, just wider.

what I'd worry about would be that much power in a short wheelbase....

I'll take a 4A-GE or a Cosworth 2.4, thanks

 

[Dave A]

I've seen a few V8 engined 7 replicas, they go like stink. You can build them to accomodate almost anything, the engine is in the middle of the car, not above the front axel.

Here's a pic of one with a very tidy engine bay to clearly show the engine position, which of course can vay depending on how you build the chassis and what engine you choose, but I don't think you can phyically get the engine over the front axel even if you wanted it there for some reason in one of these.

Heres another.

And another.

 

[Jay]

I was always thinking of making one with a SR20DET.

 

[backspace]

Heres a good example:
sgraber over at the mr2oc.com forums used a crashed MK1 MR2 and a bunch of steel tubes to create "la bala"
He designed and built his own chassis
weighs 1,200Lbs
uses the 4age. (which he may turbocharge)
2003 Yamaha R6 shocks

His website with tons of other information is www.grabercars.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqUC2sXZxI8

He claims that it can all be done for under $2000 by parting out the donor car, buying scrap yard material, and fabricating most of it yourself.

 

[Dave A]

Cool kit, but I'm not over keen on the mouldings he's made of the body for it though. The front and back are both ok but I don't like the flat sides, the straight shoulder line etc, the sides of the car really let it's looks down.

 

[YSSMAN]

I would like to do one with VW power, as noted before, but I don't know how easily that would work out given that the majority of their cars are FWD, and they haven't built a great RWD setup car in quite some time.

But then I was thinking about it last night, and it made me wonder how cheaply I could get a Porsche 924 here in the US, and thus how hard it would be to convert it into a Locost. It would be sad to destroy a Porsche, certainly, but the 924 isn't a 911.

It would be interesting to see one matched with the new GM DI 2.0L Turbo (260 BHP), as it not only is light and powerful, but an can also be used with some great modern sports car pieces.

 

[STLbarcelona5]

I've always wanted to put a Hayabusa engine into one of these. Fisher Fury



Sub 4 seconds to 60 with the motorcycle engine. Around 1000 lbs.

 

[FastEddie12]

But then I was thinking about it last night, and it made me wonder how cheaply I could get a Porsche 924 here in the US, and thus how hard it would be to convert it into a Locost. It would be sad to destroy a Porsche, certainly, but the 924 isn't a 911.

It would be interesting to see one matched with the new GM DI 2.0L Turbo (260 BHP), as it not only is light and powerful, but an can also be used with some great modern sports car pieces.

Main problem you'll find using a 924 as a donor car is that it has a rear gearbox. Most of those kits are designed to have the engine and gearbox at the front, in unit.

With a lot of these things you're usually much better off going down a tried and tested route with a readily available kit that's been around a while, unless you enjoy being an unpaid development engineer and ironing out other people's problems.

When loads of ppl have done it before you, there's usually a fair bit of help on how to complete the job.

 

[blargonator]

i own both "Build your own sports car- (new version) And race it!" and "how to build a cheap sports car". the orange one under the car and driver cover is actually built in "how to build a cheap sports car".
being a 17 year old enthusiast it is obvious the ideas dance in my mind daily. something about a light high revving car (mine would be equipped with a 4AGE) that just makes me want to build one so baddly. also another reason is the whole budget deal, being a young person i don't have much money....

from a plans view, i would recommend Ron Champion's book, but i would also get Keith Tanner's book too because it goes into certain things more specifically and it deals with miata stuff which is widely availiable in the u.s.
although his book is not necessary, it would probably help quite a bit.

i would love a motorcycle powered lotus, but one issue is there is no reverse gear, although i guess you could try very hard to keep it out of situations where reverse is necessary.

 

[YSSMAN]

According to a few of the websites I clicked around, most of the custom-built chassis that you can buy off the shelf are usually designed to match either the MGB or Miata MX-5 parts bin. Not that it is completely surprising, as they are argueably the most popular "cheap" roadsters available in the US.

For me, I don't really need loads of power in one of these. Somewhere north of 100 BHP would be nice, but I'd say 150 BHP would be the target for the car that I would attempt to make less than 1000 lbs (I think the lightest one tested was 987 lbs).

They did make an interesting point however that it is much easier to work with older carburated engines, but the majority of kits these days are being powered by new fuelie I4s governed by ECUs and such. That makes things more complicated, unfortunately, so it leaves me up in the air.

...Love the discussion thus far. Keep it coming, it is an interesting topic (I think).

 

[amp88]

I've seen these books before and flicked through them but what put me off was the section on fuel tanks. The advice was along the lines of "Why not find a bonnet at the local scrapyard, bend it into shape and weld it yourself?". I don't have any mechanical skills at all, so sadly I couldn't do something like this, but I'd love to do it if I did have the skills. Would be great to be able to put together your own car yourself (or with the help of a few good mates) and see it grow from nothing to a proper car.

 

[YSSMAN]

Cant you just buy a plastic fuel cell for a few bucks at the local auto-parts store? To get what I would consider to be an OEM Standard size for most cars here in the US (about 12-gallons US, 10 gallons UK, 45 liters for the rest) costs less than $150 with a mounting kit. Granted, it would probably be cheaper to make one yourself with some rolled aluminum, but I think pre-fab would work fine as well.

 

[amp88]

Cant you just buy a plastic fuel cell for a few bucks at the local auto-parts store? To get what I would consider to be an OEM Standard size for most cars here in the US (about 12-gallons US, 10 gallons UK, 45 liters for the rest) costs less than $150 with a mounting kit. Granted, it would probably be cheaper to make one yourself with some rolled aluminum, but I think pre-fab would work fine as well.

Yeah, no doubt but I was just using it as an example to show how out of my depth I'd be if I attempted it

Good luck with your project if you do get a donor car and all the components sorted.

 

[harrytuttle]

These all sound like great cars (I definitely plan on building one once I have a place with my own garage), but are they road legal? How would you go about insuring or registering it? I'd love to blast down the roads of upstate NY (or Manhattan ), but when I inevitably get pulled over, what do I say?

 

[YSSMAN]

Beyond building the car, that is the other hard part. I belive they must be registered as a kit car, but that is something you have to sort out with your state's DMV. Funny enough, when Car and Driver last tested a privately built Caterham they had an attached story on how to register a kit car in the US. I seem to recall that in many states it is tougher to get one registered (I think California and Mass. were the toughest), but it is easier than some people may think. It all requires a test to be done by the DMV to deem it legal or not, and then following some paperwork, I belive your car can be titled and licenced for road use.

...The good thing is, I live in Michigan. And if I remember correctly, Michigan was one of the easiest states to register one in...

 

[amp88]

YSSMAN seems to have covered the sitation for the USA, but in the UK your vehicle would have to pass the SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) Scheme.

 

[blargonator]

yeah, if you ever end up building one, just remeber......i'm only a little south of you <8- )
edit~ i was talking to YSSMAN
it is not a project for the people who are not willing to learn how to do quite a bit. welding is a major skill for the project. i can MIG weld, but not to the point where i would trust myself to build one. it takes obscene amounts of preparation to build one and obscene amounts of time to build one.

you could buy the frame, but that is a major section of the project and think of how good it would feel to say you constructed that frame yourself in your driveway with nothing more than some metal and a MIG or TIG welder.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd love to weld the frame myself, but I'm not completely certain if I could trust my work. I'd probably hire out my brother to do it, but depending on my finances, I think I'd be allright just buying the tubed steel chassis myself. For less than $2000, you really can't complain too much. But then again, that kinda defeats the purpose of a cheap sports car.

...But even then, for the $10,000 spent on the top-performing model, I'd still consider that a deal given that it performs similarly to a Lotus Elise. But I don't want Elise ammounts of speed (cornering would be nice), I'd just want a fun track car that can double as a regular vehicle if it needed to.

 

[blargonator]

at the moment my finances don't allow me to build anything, although my schooling that will be occuring this fall can help. i am taking atleast one automotive class (already took autobody in highschool and learned enough of the basics to take care of myself if i have acess to equipment....and i do) and a welding class.
at this time i would not trust my welding skills, although maybe in a year or so things will be different.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've love to learn more about how to work on and build my own cars, but unfortunately it isn't in my playbook. I'm set in my ways at Aquinas, thus its a major in History and a minor in Political Science at the moment. But that doesn't mean I won't consider the idea of building one on the side (preferably not with my money... Maybe Grandpa wants a new sportscar?) or maybe after college...

 

[niky]

I had the plans on my laptop a few months ago (the one that got stolen... grrr... and it had all moy photos and articles, too!!!).

We were thinking of doing this, as I'd figured out pricing at just about $2000, if we used an old RWD Lancer or Corolla for a donor car (they cost about $400... in fact, I could get that Lancer for free). But we don't have the time.

Best engines for this swap would probably be a 4AGE or an SR20DE. The problem with the DET is the amount of plumbing. Besides, with a Super-Seven, 150 hp is more than enough to have fun with.

 

[YSSMAN]

Best engines for this swap would probably be a 4AGE or an SR20DE. The problem with the DET is the amount of plumbing. Besides, with a Super-Seven, 150 hp is more than enough to have fun with.

I wouldn't be surprised to see those as popular engines, but aren't they a bit harder to come by in the US than in other places? Granted, I'm not an import guy through-and-through, so I may not know what I'm talking about.

I wonder how cheap it would be to buy a 2.2L L61 I4 from GM, as it has plenty of power (140-ish depending on application) and works well in the fuel-efficency department as well (assuming you would want to use your car more than a few times every summer...)

I guess the trick would be figuring out how to get the engine to work in a RWD car, so the only transmission that I assume would work with it would be the Aisin 5-speed from the Solstice.

...Too much money I suppose there, but it would be fun to get a car with modern parts such as that.

 

[blargonator]

the 4AGE is easy to get ahold of (which i think you know) and the SR20DE is found in a few USDM cars such as B13 Sentra SE-Rs and also 200SX SE-Rs, and i think they are in some other nissan from that general area.

a awsome project would be wedging a RB26 bolted to a RB25 tranny. i recently got a ride in a RB26 equipped S13.....it was awsome <8- D