The Hong Kong Thread

I don't think Honk Kong can be properly integrated into the mainland ever without the CCP losing control, They sure as hell don't want these kind of protests spilling into Shenzhen etc.

They got away with it in 1989 due to a controlled media and a small subset of population joining in, but numbers like these are simply not controllable, keep in mind this is around halfway now untill the 2 systems model is supposed to end.

As soon as these pro-Beijing laws are in place in HK, the people there simply won't have a choice but to live with it just like what Macau currently is. Protests will be a thing of the past.

And most public school students these days are being taught in Mandarin anyway, by the time 2047 come, majority of the HK population won't be any different than Shenzhen's.

I remember my first ever visit in Shenzhen in 1984, all people there spoke in Cantonese. You can barely hear any nowadays.
 
MSZ
As soon as these pro-Beijing laws are in place in HK, the people there simply won't have a choice but to live with it just like what Macau currently is. Protests will be a thing of the past.

And most public school students these days are being taught in Mandarin anyway, by the time 2047 come, majority of the HK population won't be any different than Shenzhen's.

I remember my first ever visit in Shenzhen in 1984, all people there spoke in Cantonese. You can barely hear any nowadays.
Even with these laws in place people will not stop protesting In Hong Kong, when you have that many people against an issue the Government has to back down or risk Power loss, these are not small numbers of people. Given how the CCP is Soo scared of losing power it will take it's time on this issue Imo, in 20 years for example people are not going to forget this stuff, the biggest future issue Hong Kong will face is when the CCP will try take away the Free Press and Internet to communicate with the rest of the world, if it can get away with that, it can start to control the narrative and then start feeding the populace Government supported Cool-Aid like what they have done on the Mainland.
 
Even with these laws in place people will not stop protesting In Hong Kong, when you have that many people against an issue the Government has to back down or risk Power loss, these are not small numbers of people. Given how the CCP is Soo scared of losing power it will take it's time on this issue Imo, in 20 years for example people are not going to forget this stuff, the biggest future issue Hong Kong will face is when the CCP will try take away the Free Press and Internet to communicate with the rest of the world, if it can get away with that, it can start to control the narrative and then start feeding the populace Government supported Cool-Aid like what they have done on the Mainland.

My point was there will be less and much less younger generation come out and try to take down the CCP-lead SAR government. The people you mentioned who aren't forgetting these current moments will be in their mid-40s and 50s 20 years from now, those guys aren't coming out to the streets protesting in 2040, book it.
 
MSZ
My point was there will be less and much less younger generation come out and try to take down the CCP-lead SAR government. The people you mentioned who aren't forgetting these current moments will be in their mid-40s and 50s 20 years from now, those guys aren't coming out to the streets protesting in 2040, book it.
Yeah but look at it now, your halfway through and the majority is the youth, so long as there is freedom to communicate with the outside world the youth will be at the front of this.

This was the largest protest since 1997 and it's halfway through the Handover period to Mainland, I wouldn't be Soo quick to dismiss the people of Hong Kong on this even with extra pressure from the Mainland.
 
@AerodyManiac

I have a little bit of concern for your well-being here. It's wonderful that you've come and shared your view here, but I hope that you've been stepping carefully.
No worries. I didn’t join anything other than the march with a million people in it, and I left before the march escalated in midnight. School’s ended around a month ago, so I rarely have the need to go out. The fear of having a stop-and-search conducted on me by the police due to stepping anywhere remotely close to the current protests very much exists, though.

Thanks for asking, I appreciate it. 👍
Yeah. Just to give you some perspective of how many people went on the streets, it took me 7 and a half hours to walk a distance that normally takes around an hour or so, and the organizer has already started the march early.

———

So far there’re journalists and a driver responsible for delivering filming equipment for a broadcaster injured by the police, and the protest is only in its infancy, as the President of the LegCo has pushed ahead with the Council meetings, and in doing so, set a deadline of 20/6 for the amendment bill to be voted on. The protest could last even longer, as the President can hold additional meetings after then. So things are certainly headed for a worrying direction for the protesters, especially with the indiscriminate treatment of anybody by the police (as illustrated by this video). A lot of the things that are circulating around are hearsay (or snippets of videos), so I don’t think they’re worth posting here.
 
I'm very surprised but it looks like Lam has stopped going ahead with this for now, who says protests don't work?

Bejing is scared, never in the entire history of the CCP has it had to face this amount of Civil Unrest, and with Dictatorships the whole reason they can keep power is because they keep the masses preoccupied, they don't want this kind of protest at any cost.

This will come back later though but they will probably sack Carrie Lam and try and a use a new Leader who can word this bill better because they didn't toss it out they only suspended it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ne...d/news-story/e961472661fd32267077ec00221d1b88
 
What is the Chinese government's reaction to the current ongoings in Hong Kong?
 
What is the Chinese government's reaction to the current ongoings in Hong Kong?
It remains to be seen... at the moment it would appear that the Chinese authorities are going out of their way to avoid conflict, perhaps in the hope that public sentiment will begin to turn against the protesters - i.e. give the protesters enough rope to hang themselves with, and then it will be business as usual once the protests have died down. A few pro-democracy protesters have denounced the current protests, and there was even some suggestion that pro-government agitators are deliberately stirring things up - laying a trap for protesters to walk right into.

The protesters say that they have no choice but to "fight" in order to make the Chinese government "listen" - unfortunately, China doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to 'listening' to massive protests. The Hong Kong authorities are in an increasingly awkward position - thus far there has been a reluctance on all sides to escalate things - but now the protesters are stepping it up a gear and challenging the authorities to a showdown... I think we can only hope that the Chinese government continue to act like nothing's happening instead of taking matters into their own hands like the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989...
 
Massive win for the Hong Kong Protestors, Carrie Lam Scraps the Extradition Bill in it's entirety.

Edit: Some are saying this is False, they haven't Scrapped the bill they just said they did instead.
Technically it is false - the bill has only been suspended, but it is now increasingly the case that the extradition bill is becoming less and less relevant anyway - it was merely the straw (or, perhaps more accurately, the haystack) that broke the camel's back.

The Hong Kong government's failure to act decisively on the extremely unpopular extradition bill has contributed directly to a much deeper level of disquiet, to the point where it is rapidly developing into a full blown protest against Chinese rule, which is probably not going to end well.
 
Technically it is false - the bill has only been suspended, but it is now increasingly the case that the extradition bill is becoming less and less relevant anyway - it was merely the straw (or, perhaps more accurately, the haystack) that broke the camel's back.

The Hong Kong government's failure to act decisively on the extremely unpopular extradition bill has contributed directly to a much deeper level of disquiet, to the point where it is rapidly developing into a full blown protest against Chinese rule, which is probably not going to end well.
If overnight reports from BBC radio are to be believed, the city is wracked by defiance, protest and shutdown of every kind from one end to the other. The police are now associated with gangs in the mind of the public, and are under siege. A general strike has shut down virtually every business, tunnel and vital artery. I fully expect the Chinese Army to invade the city at any moment. Lam, the Dragon Queen, may rule over ashes.
 
I think the Chinese strategy thus far has been one of attrition and a hope that the protests will gradually fade as more and more people are arrested and subject to the full weight of Chinese law. Unfortunately, it would appear not to be working, and now China has a big dilemma - send in the tanks or back down.

As far as I can fathom, the basic problem is that China is facing down a population who are accustomed (not to mention entitled) to a government that respects their human rights to an extent not observed in the mainland - irrespective of how this situation arose in the first place, this is a fundamental issue that China is ill-equipped to deal with. It is beyond unlikely that China itself will bow to pressure and back down, and instead it will probably opt for a situation that brings Hong Kong into line with the mainland rather than attempting to restore the 'one country, two systems' principle, even though it has agreed to maintain that. Meanwhile, China is blaming the UK and the US for fomenting unrest, but never seems willing to consider that the root of the problem lies more with its own attitude to basic human rights and freedoms.
 
...the root of the problem lies more with its own attitude to basic human rights and freedoms.
China is rounding up and sterilizing Muslim women. Their attitude to human rights cannot be more plain for all to see. The communist authoritarians leading the nation have a crystal clear purpose and plan - their own survival, accomplished by nipping nonconformity and any hint of domestic unrest in the bud. To them, Hong Kong is like a case of virulent cancer that cannot be lived with. In short, this is a defining moment in history.
 
This popped up in my Reddit feed recently: a /r/HongKong discussion (language warning) on what might stop a repeat of the Tiananmen Square Incident occurring in HK.
 
Meanwhile, China is blaming the UK and the US for fomenting unrest, but never seems willing to consider that the root of the problem lies more with its own attitude to basic human rights and freedoms.
Pretty typical CCP strategy to be honest. Consider for example the Huawei case. China bans Facebook, YouTube, Google, Instagram, and many other US social media platforms for reasons, and hardly anyone bats an eye, and yet when the US considers banning Huawei, they throw a big hissy fit over it. Don't expect logic, reason, consistency, or honesty to be at the forefront of anything they say. The CCP is best at being hypocrites and liars. Essentially, my family (from Hong Kong) and most overseas Hong Kongers know not to trust a word they say at all, period.
 
I think the Chinese strategy thus far has been one of attrition and a hope that the protests will gradually fade as more and more people are arrested and subject to the full weight of Chinese law. Unfortunately, it would appear not to be working, and now China has a big dilemma - send in the tanks or back down.
Yeah, I think what they’re doing right now is just hope that protestor numbers will dwindle after school resumes in September, and before that they’re going to just sit with their arms crossed (not sure if that’s the right expression), continue with the condemnations and let the police do what they want. But there’s also a concern after the protests die down (which I also have), which is the fear that the police will start to make mass arrests and the government will try to do something even more outrageous after then, but this time nobody will be standing up against them, because the students, which is the main source of manpower for the protests, will be too occupied with their studies!

I agree that it’s a quandary, not only for the Chinese government, but also for all sides involved. If the Hong Kong government heed to the protestors’ demands and set up an independent commission to investigate the happenings immediately, that’s not likely to put an end to the protests immediately, as the other demands are still not met, with the particular focus being that the protestors are still worried that the bill will be reinitiated some time later. Fulfilling all their demands is not an option for the HK government either, as once again they will have to consult the Chinese government and seek their approval (read: suggestion) on the political reform proposal, but whatever one of the sides come up with, it is already known the other won’t accept it! For the protestors, their only options are to escalate the magnitude of the protests or for it to remain peaceful. If the latter had worked, the situation wouldn’t have been so antagonistic after the march with a million people on 9/6. Do the former, and you’ll risk losing the popular mandate. So the only thing that can be done now is to have more dialogue, but even that is under the provision that the government is doing it with a sincere intent not only to solve the current crisis, but also to have a candid exchange of opinions, as well as the protestors willing to set aside their demands for a while. But even then disruptions could happen.
 
One thing that I have thought about the protests is that the demographic of the protesters has changed a fair bit (though I stand to be corrected) from a wide mixture of ages to predominately young student-aged protesters... and the concern I have is that the (very) legitimate, original concerns of the protests (the extradition rules) are being gradually replaced with a more general disquiet (and more ideological) protest from younger people who are less able or willing to accept that the status quo in Hong Kong has, until now, worked pretty well.

While I agree that the extradition law would set a potentially dangerous new precedent for Hong Kong, the protests against it are in danger of leading to a situation where the freedoms that Hong Kongers currently enjoy are lost wholesale and China assumes control over the region once and for all. Older and more experienced campaigners can no doubt see this danger more clearly than younger protesters who arguably don't realise a) what they are up against and b) the value of what they already have. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to be a general trend among mass protests that younger, less experienced people 'hijack' otherwise more legitimate protests and end up wrecking the entire thing because they go too far...
 
While I agree that the extradition law would set a potentially dangerous new precedent for Hong Kong, the protests against it are in danger of leading to a situation where the freedoms that Hong Kongers currently enjoy are lost wholesale and China assumes control over the region once and for all. Older and more experienced campaigners can no doubt see this danger more clearly than younger protesters who arguably don't realise a) what they are up against and b) the value of what they already have. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to be a general trend among mass protests that younger, less experienced people 'hijack' otherwise more legitimate protests and end up wrecking the entire thing because they go too far...

To me it depends on from what perspective you’re looking at the protests. From the micro layer it is possible to come to the conclusion that the activists have turned from people from all ages and walks of life to mainly people aged in their 20s (or even younger), especially so if you notice that every time there’s a peaceful protest staged requesting the government to act on the 5 demands it almost always ends in direct confrontation between the police and masked protestors who seem to be of that age. But it can also be argued from the macro point-of-view that older people (or at least the part that supported it in the first place) are still very much in favour of the movement. There has been a few protests staged by what you can call the elderly that show solidarity with the protesting students (information pertaining to one of them can be found here), and if it is any indication of whether society as a whole is still supportive of the protestors, recent polls conducted by a local university have shown that the general public is still rather dissatisfied with the HK government’s performance. Of course, it’s been a month since the aforementioned information surfaced, so I can’t really tell how the current popular opinion is like. It should also be said that crowd pressure might be playing a role when it comes to not condemning radical protestors, as social media accounts have been circulating such messages for a while.

As for the radicalization of the current protests, I’d venture to add that another reason for it is that younger activists see no hope in achieving true democracy under the current regime, and instead see a very bleak picture of the future developments, be it political or in respect to their own livelihoods. A lot has changed since the era experienced by the older protestors, and I reckon that a significant portion of youngsters believe that erosion of their current rights and liberties would continue even though the bill has been stopped until there is little left, and the fear of the bill being revived still very much exists. So they perceive it as an all-in-or-nothing situation, especially considering how far things have gone, and started to treat the consequences with disregard.
 
Dictatorships cannot be sustained, because the people will rise against it sooner or later. North Korea is the only successfull one because of it's isolation and starving people cannot really protest for weeks of course. But people will never learn, they do the same mistakes over and over again because of power, what a shameful species we are...
 
Dictatorships cannot be sustained, because the people will rise against it sooner or later. North Korea is the only successfull one because of it's isolation and starving people cannot really protest for weeks of course. But people will never learn, they do the same mistakes over and over again because of power, what a shameful species we are...

Technically China isnt a dictatorship in the way you probably are suggesting. There are many misconceptions about China and the media is much to blaim. China and north korea are not comparable. China is a communist socialist state with only 1 party, which could be described as a dictatorship in the broadest sense. The Chinese President is not as all powerful as many people may think. Xi can be granted numerous official titles, which is the same as most leaders of the nation, but he does not act in the capacity as one-person dictator. The Chinese government remains highly-bureaucratized and that serves as a checks and balancing system.

edit: added content
 
Last edited:
Technically China isnt a dictatorship in the way you probably are suggesting. There are many misconceptions about China and the media is much to blaim. China and north korea are not comparable. China is a communist socialist state with only 1 party, which could be described as a dictatorship in the broadest sense. The Chinese President is not as all powerful as many people may think. Xi can be granted numerous official titles, which is the same as most leaders of the nation, but he does not act in the capacity as one-person dictator. The Chinese government remains highly-bureaucratized and that serves as a checks and balancing system.

edit: added content

I wouldn't trust them to balance themselves sorry. The chinese president allocated a lot of power over the years and those "reeducation" camps near the west border tells me that something sinister is going on. Also they will have a surveillance and point system installed on soon (it is in the beta testing phase), which only an insecure government can come up with.
 
Dictatorships cannot be sustained, because the people will rise against it sooner or later. North Korea is the only successfull one because of it's isolation and starving people cannot really protest for weeks of course. But people will never learn, they do the same mistakes over and over again because of power, what a shameful species we are...

No dictatorship lasts forever we seen many dictatorships fall due to numerous reasons. Remember the Tsars they ruled Russia for centuries and in the end the royal family got executed. While gaddafi died a violent death same for mussolini.

I think North Korea may collapse unless if it goes the Chinese route and opens up.
 
The Chinese government remains highly-bureaucratized and that serves as a checks and balancing system.
This has evidently not prevented the Chinese government from imprisoning Muslims, taking away their infant children for reeducation, and sterilizing them from reproduction.

I'm not sure any one government has lasted anywhere on Earth for more than a few hundred years before collapsing or being replaced.
 
Back