The Trump Impeachment Thread

  • Thread starter Dotini
  • 2,103 comments
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Will the current Articles of Impeachment ever be sent from the House to the Senate?

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
DesertPenguin
Edit: And "Of all the people..."? Let's not make personal attacks on people's past. This topic is about people's opinions of things. My personal history has nothing to do with that.
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My apologies, what I meant was "of all the people to ask that of", and I'm less concerned about the past than I am about a future that includes an answer to that question provided by the individual who was asked.
 
Dotini
One of the issues they are grappling with is witnesses, including John Bolton and the Bidens.
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The Republicans already grappled.

They already decided the rules. The Republicans said no witnesses. Those are the rules. The Democrats are doing everything they can to illustrate why that was a poor decision and why they should change their mind.
 
Keef
The Republicans already grappled.

They already decided the rules. The Republicans said no witnesses. Those are the rules. The Democrats are doing everything they can to illustrate why that was a poor decision and why they should change their mind.
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Actually, I believe the process calls for presentation of the cases for and against, then questions, then discussions for witnesses, then voting for conviction/acquittal.
 
Dotini
Actually, I believe the process calls for presentation of the cases for and against, then questions, then discussions for witnesses, then voting for conviction/acquittal.
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No. The process began on Tuesday, with a debate on the rules for the trial. Only after that did the trial begin on Wednesday.

EDIT: Looks like you're right, the final vote on witnesses during the trial was delayed until after the presentation and question phases. I assumed you were excluding the rules debate from the whole process @Dotini. I'm surprised to find out that this will be a two-week process...I'm curious what the hell the senators are up to in the mean time, especially those two got up and walked out during Schiff's initial presentation. I'm also curious about the carious senators who have already broken the rules about no digital devices.
 
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Keef
No. The process began on Tuesday, with a debate on the rules for the trial. Only after that did the trial begin on Wednesday.
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Fine. Have it your way.
I still think they will have witnesses, or at least begin the voting on that issue probably next week or whenever the Q&A moderated by the Chief Justice is concluded.
 
ryzno
Can I change my vote to February?
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Sorry, the poll is closed, and I don't seem to be able to start a new one. :banghead:

But don't fret - I think there will be a 2nd impeachment started immediately after this one concludes, and if I'm fortunate enough to start the thread, there will be a new poll. :D
 
Scaff
The points I've put forward, and you have once again ignored, are all part of the public record. Why do you keep refusing to acknowledge that and parrot the 'but Biden...' line?
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I am not ignoring them. I don't believe them.

I posted this the other day, and apparently you ignored it. So here it is again.

This is the prosecutor Biden had fired. He says the investigation was still ongoing and that he was about to question Hunter Biden about money laundering.

You may think this is bs and Biden and Hunter did nothing wrong. But, a lot of people believe Biden and Hunter are corrupt. A lot of people.

The fact is though, it doesn't matter if they are guilty or not.

What matters is what the president thought. If he thought there could be something to the Biden story like lots of others, then conspiracy theory or not, if that was what the president thought, then he did absolutely nothing wrong asking for an investigation.
 
Chrunch Houston
I am not ignoring them. I don't believe them.

I posted this the other day, and apparently you ignored it. So here it is again.

This is the prosecutor Biden had fired. He says the investigation was still ongoing and that he was about to question Hunter Biden about money laundering.

You may think this is bs and Biden and Hunter did nothing wrong. But, a lot of people believe Biden and Hunter are corrupt. A lot of people.

The fact is though, it doesn't matter if they are guilty or not.

What matters is what the president thought. If he thought there could be something to the Biden story like lots of others, then conspiracy theory or not, if that was what the president thought, then he did absolutely nothing wrong asking for an investigation.
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That and numerous others were closed or put on hold by him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tion-criminal-trump-impeachment-a9142741.html

You also forgot the fact that it was bipartisan and also pushed by the EU, Works Bank and others.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/poli...oed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190



Or are they all lying as well?
 
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Chrunch Houston
You may think this is bs and Biden and Hunter did nothing wrong. But, a lot of people believe Biden and Hunter are corrupt. A lot of people.
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trumpmanypeoplearesaying.jpg


Trumpism, man...
 
Scaff
That and numerous others were closed or put on hold by him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tion-criminal-trump-impeachment-a9142741.html

You also forgot the fact that it was bipartisan and also pushed by the EU, Works Bank and others.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/poli...oed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190



Or are they all lying as well?
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It doesn't matter. None of this matters. You don't have to try to convince me that the guy needed to be fired. You know why? Cause it doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is what Trump thought.
 
Chrunch Houston
It doesn't matter. None of this matters. You don't have to try to convince me that the guy needed to be fired. You know why? Cause it doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is what Trump thought.
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No, what he did matters as well.

That aside, if Trump has evidence to support the why then he should present it, the same goes for witnesses who can support that narrative.

Odd that he's refusing to put either forward.
 
Scaff
No, what he did matters as well.

That aside, if Trump has evidence to support the why then he should present it, the same goes for witnesses who can support that narrative.

Odd that he's refusing to put either forward.
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It is not the defendant's job to prove his innocence in this country.

Prove what Trump was thinking when he made that phone call. Prove it!
 
Chrunch Houston
It is not the defendant's job to prove his innocence in this country.

Prove what Trump was thinking when he made that phone call. Prove it!
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Which is why I said what he did matters as well.

What he did is materially different to what Biden did, the evidence (which has formed your narrative to date and now suddenly doesn't matter to you) utterly supports Trump acting outside the mechanics of US government to further a personal agenda.

Why was the call recording immediately moved to a separate secure server, rather than the normal location for archive?

Why was Trump's personal lawyer and his agents used in this rather than federal resources?

Why were the funds withheld within a short period of time of the call?

Why was the house not informed of the withholding of the funds as they should of been, as they needed to approve it?

Why were the funds suddenly released when details of the whistle-blower were known, if the were unrelated?

Why did a Trump official say it was a quid pro quo if it wasn't?

Why does evidence exist that only the announcement of an investigation was required, not an actual investigation in self?

Why does evidence exist that utterly disputes Trump's narrative for the reason of the need for an investigation?

Why was the US ambassador followed and then removed from post?


As such the burden is now on Trump to present counter evidence beyond 'nah'.
 
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Scaff
What he did is materially different to what Biden did, the evidence (which has formed your narrative to date and now suddenly doesn't matter to you) utterly supports Trump acting outside the mechanics of US government to further a personal agenda.
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No doubt he had his own channels, but for his own benefit? Prove it! That is my whole point.
 
Chrunch Houston
No doubt he had his own channels, but for his own benefit? Prove it! That is my whole point.
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I have, you just ignored them.

You seem to forget that he's not a king, and can't just do what the hell he likes. As an example:

"Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law,"
Government Accountability Office (GAO)

"The 1974 Impoundment Control Act says it is illegal for the White House to withhold aid appropriated by Congress. It also says the White House must first alert Congress before it delays or blocked funds, which the Trump administration did not do."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51139939
 
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Chrunch Houston
It doesn't matter. None of this matters. You don't have to try to convince me that the guy needed to be fired. You know why? Cause it doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is what Trump thought.
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So when I think of if I turned off the lights when I left home, while murdering someone, I am somehow innocent?
 
I see it this way: it's pretty clear what Trump was trying to do. What he is now encouraging is the "Many People Are Saying" defence. And the "many people" are people like Crunch who are in the Trumpist echo chamber. Whether what Trump did is impeachable is hard to say, because (as with other things in the 18th century US Constitution) it's not entirely clear what constitutes a "high crime & misdemeanour".

It seems to me that rather than actual removal of Trump from office, the Democrats are trying to achieve two things:

1) Discredit Trump further with enough "independents", or soft Republicans, to undermine Trump's chances in the 2020 election.

2) Prevent Trump from attempting further shenanigans aimed at securing a personal advantage in the 2020 election.
 
Even if we don't get the removal from office, the writing is on the wall. Anyone that actually thinks for themselves and is a Trump supporter may have a change of thought in the near future. Those that don't think for themselves will continue to remain in the echochamber. If anything, we did what we could and hopefully that matters to the right people.
 

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