The lesser of 3 evils? Please help with car choice!!! (Car arrived, photos post #72!)

[1X83Z]

Worse than the dash?

 

[Gil]

If you don't really have to carry stuff, and you don't have kids, I'd bag the mini-van.

I have a really low tolerance for Mopar products, but if you aren't footing the bill, and you'll only have it about 50K miles...It likely doesn't matter.

I'm with Duke though, if you can work the deal and get a Caliber, it would be better as it has some very cool options.

 

[Smallhorses]

Sadly, although there are many more desirable & fundamentally safer, options for less than what they're willing to pay, even within the Mopar range e.g. 4x4 Jeep Patriot, Dodge Avenger to name a couple, I've as much chance of talking them into another choice as I had of talking Bush/Blair out of attacking Iraq by myself! Logic just doesn't seem to apply!!!

 

[Gil]

In that case, I'd guess you're "stuck" with the Avenger/Sebring.

 

[1X83Z]

Jeep Patriot? You're surely kidding. I've driven several and several Compasses too. Honestly the worst SUVs I have ever been inside.

 

[JCE]

There is no way "well put together" and Pacifica go together.

+1 1,000,000% agreed. They are literally poop on wheels.

On the minivan note, I came across this last night before bed:

Car and Driver's initial test of the new Chrysler/Dodge minivans.

This feature is awesome:

Swivel and Go Seating

...Although the dash looks a little plain...

I'm seriously questioning your sanity. A minivan? For a dude? Who's probably going to drive it by himself 85%+ of the time?

Go for the Caravan IMO, its good looking, and the interior is pretty nice too.

Either you're married with children and lost all hope to owning a cool people carrier or you are in need of a testosterone injection. Here let me help you regain some of your testosterone:

And finally...take two of these and call me in the morning:

My issue with Sto'n'Go is the lack of room for headrests. Hey Chrysler - I can't stow the headrests? Die. You try to find a place for five minivan headrests with silver things protruding from them.

Hah, awsome. Finally some-sort of sanity in here.

Worse than the dash?

I'd rather have a dash like that if the better build quality goes with it. Nissan > Chrysler a BILLION times over.

Jeep Patriot? You're surely kidding. I've driven several and several Compasses too. Honestly the worst SUVs I have ever been inside.

I love you.

 

[foamy_302]

**** man go for the Sebring/Avenger.
they look decent and ride better than most chrysler products i've driven lately

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

Go for the SUV. Minivans are for soccer moms, and let's face it: the Sebring has been a steaming turd ever since it debuted. I'd be shocked of you got it and it went more than a year without a visit to the shop.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I would say go for the Sebring, because it's a car.

The only reason you should consider the minivan is if you will be spending most of the time in the 2nd row. Why drive something bigger and more uneconomical than you have to?

 

[TopHat]

@DWA: What's wrong with a Mini-van? Its more economical than a mid-size SUV like the Pacifica, it has more room, and it has a better interior most likely, considering that was 2003, and this is 2007.



Also the Caravan looks kinda macho in that orange color.


Also also, thanks for smexy cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

Jeep Patriot? You're surely kidding. I've driven several and several Compasses too. Honestly the worst SUVs I have ever been inside.

Well, I wouldn't even call them SUV's in the first place. I honestly can't believe that Dr. Z allowed for the Compass to be produced, which really sheds some light on how poor the leadership was under DaimlerBenz's wing... The Patriot however seems like a far-better vehicle by comparison to the Compass, at the very least looking like a Jeep, and actually packing in some soft-road capabilities that are greater than other competitors in its class. The "Freedom-Drive II" setup works marginally well, and if you live in a snow-blasted State like I do, it may come in handy too. Either way, I think I'd honestly have the Patriot over the Caliber (same vehicle), but thats just me. I'd have to drive both back-to-back to decide for certain...

I'm seriously questioning your sanity. A minivan? For a dude? Who's probably going to drive it by himself 85%+ of the time?

I remember a time when it was cool for guys to have vans. But, obviously times have changed. I dunno... I figure if I could get a nicely equipped Caravan with the "Swivel and Go" with the 4.0L V6 it wouldn't be so bad... You could sit in the back and watch satellite TV, it would be a great vehicle for tailgates on the weekends, and you'd never have to worry about having enough room for all your crap.

...Mind you, this is coming from a guy who plans to replace his Jetta with a Jetta Wagon (that is, if I can find it how I want it), so I certainly value utility to some extent...

Plus, if you get "Stow and Go," you could fold all the seats down, throw an air mattress back there, and have a nice cozy spot for a "nap."

[Puts on Afternoon Delight]

===

There isn't anything wrong with liking a boring vehicle, as I quite fancy the average family sedan. Of course, my tastes are a bit "off" by comparison to most other consumers, so I'm on the fringe to say the least... But a free car is a free car, and given that the Pacifica is already out of the running, one has to choose between the Van (not a bad choice, IMO) or the Sebring (not a bad choice, IMO). Overall, I would just go with an Avenger and be done with it, but his company is picky, so I'd just vote for the Sebring anyway.

 

[Smallhorses]

Bear in mind, we did have the choice of a "0-Upside Down

in 60s, Jeep Liberty 4x4" up until a few years ago! Again until they removed that one for "safety" reasons!
By comparison the low-riding Patriot seems like a safe bet, with 4x4 as it's not got the ground clearance to clear a small housebrick dropped on the freeway, nevermind going off-road!

@ JCE3000GT thanks for sexy cars, was doing really well until the last picture! Now i have to clean puke off my keyboard! The Countach is without a doubt, one of the silliest and ugliest cars ever! Even with the gorgeous Jaguar & Aston Martin in the background, the Countach still made me vomit!
Now then, had you posted a Miura, then you'd be talking!!!
Oh, and by the way, the company car lives on the street, this is what lives in my garage:-

 

[JCE]

Mind if I take the Porsche out for a spin? And the Countach is ugly yes, but it goes like stink and sounds heavenly. Thats why I chose it.

 

[1X83Z]

I love you.

Love you too JCE. Honestly horrible vehicles. Drove a Patriot for a second today - man that thing's a load of crap. Following my experience at this rental agency I will never own a cheap domestic car.

 

[Gil]

If you must get a boring vehicle. And it must be domestic. Ford and GM both have more desirable choices.
The 500 is growing on me, the sedan that's one size down from that is ok,
GM has several nice looking cars, such as the Gran Prix, etc.

I do know a lady who has a Pacifica for a company car and she likes the thing. But it's really too bad you can just get an Accord or Camry and call it a day.

 

[Kent]

So, must it be a Chrysler-Dodge product?
If so I stick with my original, "Sebring/Avenger" pick. However, should cars of similar price, size, and format come into play, I would say Pontiac G6 > Sebring (although a lifetime drivetrain warranty does sound nice).

 

[Smallhorses]

Spoke with our fleet admin today.
It's one of those 3 vehicles or nothing. So says our VP. Guess I can't argue then.

The Sebring is indeed a "fleet" model, basically the base model but with the 2.7L V6. Given the lack of extra options and the fact that I will be given $1000 to spend on options due to seniority, (but only the ones pre-approved by the company) it looks like the Sebring isn't worth having either. Problem is also that the Chrysler website still only has details for 2007 model, not 2008 which is what we'd be getting. Will have to wait and see. Maybe I could get a sunroof or something. 💡

Looks like I'm going to have to wait to experience the 2008 Caravan before making a final choice. Although it'll only come with a 175HP 3.3L V6. Ugh!
How is it possible to extract so little power from such a huge lump!
The same company makes a 2.4L I4 that makes 173HP!!!

It's funny that Dodge, in their own comparison brochure for the Caravan with other minivans, they compare Dodge's 195HP 3.8L V6, with the 266HP 3.5L V6 in the Toyota Sienna, 244HP 3.5L V6 in the Honda Odyssey and even Kia manage to extract 250 HP from the 3.8L V6 in their Sedona!

 

[1X83Z]

Chrysler also offers a 240-horsepower 4-liter V6 in that van which should be class competitive.

 

[YSSMAN]

Chrysler also offers a 240-horsepower 4-liter V6 in that van which should be class competitive.

Very true, but I'm still willing to bet that it falls behind a bit. Then again, most folks who are going to be buying these wouldn't care, so I'm sure they're more concerned about fuel economy and moderately decent acceleration.

...I will never own a cheap domestic car...

I'd be happy to point out that GM and Ford would be happy to sell you several well-assembled vehicles that are rated higher not only that the poop-tastic Chrysler line, but in many cases pack in better interiors than comparably priced Japanese and German products as well.

Give it time, they're getting better. I looked at a 2008 Highlander the other day and I laughed at the dealer with how shoddy the interior was. If thats what GM and Ford has to get over in quality, they certainly don't have to try too hard anymore...

But hey, you can take comfort in knowing that a vast majority of GM's "American" cars will actually be German or Australian by the end of the decade, and with Ford, an increasing number should become British or German as well.

 

[foamy_302]

yea i feel that American cars are kinda disapearing. but i'm not complaining. i love german and australian cars, even british cars have my vote

 

[1X83Z]

I'd be happy to point out that GM and Ford would be happy to sell you several well-assembled vehicles that are rated higher not only that the poop-tastic Chrysler line, but in many cases pack in better interiors than comparably priced Japanese and German products as well.

Name one! I've driven them all and I see clearly that absolutely all of the domestics are the worst. I drove a Corolla and a Cobalt today - both for long periods of time. The Corolla, which has a 2003 design, was LEAGUES above the Cobalt for refinement - despite the Cobalt's 2005 design.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd be happy to name a few. I must note that a few are '08 models, which should be showing up in the next three months or less, that is if they aren't already made available in your market.

At GM:
-Chevrolet Malibu ('08)
-Chevrolet Impala (not that bad...)
-Chevrolet Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche
-Pontiac G8 ('08)
-Pontiac G5 (better than the Cobalt)
-Saturn Aura
-Saturn VUE
-Saturn Astra ('08)
-Saturn Outlook
-GMC Acadia
-GMC Sierra/Yukon/Yukon XL
-Buick LaCrosse (see the Impala)
-Buick Lucerne (surprisingly nice!)
-Buick Enclave (better than any Toyota I've looked at...)
-Cadillac CTS ('08)
-Cadillac STS ('08)
-Cadillac SRX ('08)
-Cadillac Escalade/ESV/EXT

And at Ford:

-Ford Focus ('08 at least looks good inside)
-Ford Flex ('08)
-Ford Edge
-Ford Fusion (a surprisingly good car I might add)
-Ford Taurus/X
-Ford F150 (a bit behind, but still nice)
-Ford F250 (shockingly nice!)
-The Mercury clones of all aforementioned Ford products
-Lincoln MKZ
-Lincoln MKX
-Lincoln Navigator

...just to name a few...

Furthermore, that doesn't even count what isn't here yet. The Mondeo is still reportedly coming to the US, and the same can be said for the C-Max and Fiesta as well. The brand-new Aura from Saturn should be here by next year or shortly thereafter. GM and Ford should both be getting to their update cycles as well, not to mention the new product debuts.

Most of the cars are on-par, if not better than the competition, at least from what I've touched, felt, and compared. I'm not impressed at all by any of Toyota's new vehicles (the Corolla is from an era in which things were actually quite good), Honda is staging for a generational jump forward (I'm guessing they will set the new standards), and Nissan has never really been good at it, so they just do what they do.

...Sure, the Germans do it better (they always have), but reliability comes into question. As an Audi owner, you know what I'm talking about... As a two-time VW owner, the fourth in the immediate family, I know what I'm talking about...

I'm all for supporting the domestic brands as best I can, but I'd be willing to bet that if you were to cut me I'd end up bleeding VW. I look for good deals, well-built models that are fun to drive and nice to look at. Detroit has done a good job of getting back (pretty much) where they need to be. They just need people to realize it...

 

[itgirlxx]

Smallhorses and I are still no nearer choosing a replacement. I drove a Range Rover for a while back in the UK, so am used to peering over hedges and people's fences, but that doesn't mean I want to be seen with a Minivan, even if it is orange (why orange dear?!) And the Pacifica just means fog to me as that's where we used to live.

So, for me, as the chick, I vote for the Sebring. After all, I know nothing about cars. As long as it starts when it should and stops when it should, I'm happy.

 

[JCE]

I'd be happy to name a few. I must note that a few are '08 models, which should be showing up in the next three months or less, that is if they aren't already made available in your market.

At GM:
-Chevrolet Malibu ('08)
-Chevrolet Impala (not that bad...)
-Chevrolet Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche
-Pontiac G8 ('08)
-Pontiac G5 (better than the Cobalt)
-Saturn Aura
-Saturn VUE
-Saturn Astra ('08)
-Saturn Outlook
-GMC Acadia
-GMC Sierra/Yukon/Yukon XL
-Buick LaCrosse (see the Impala)
-Buick Lucerne (surprisingly nice!)
-Buick Enclave (better than any Toyota I've looked at...)
-Cadillac CTS ('08)
-Cadillac STS ('08)
-Cadillac SRX ('08)
-Cadillac Escalade/ESV/EXT

And at Ford:

-Ford Focus ('08 at least looks good inside)
-Ford Flex ('08)
-Ford Edge
-Ford Fusion (a surprisingly good car I might add)
-Ford Taurus/X
-Ford F150 (a bit behind, but still nice)
-Ford F250 (shockingly nice!)
-The Mercury clones of all aforementioned Ford products
-Lincoln MKZ
-Lincoln MKX
-Lincoln Navigator

The ones in BOLD I agree with. I'm really impressed with the Malibu and G8 interiors, they are brilliant to look at. May I also offer the new Ford Falcon which is coming here to that list?

But, the Ford Flex's interior for some reason doesn't do it for me...

 

[Jim Prower]

I'd go Sebring, for two little words. Fuel. Economy. If you have to spend time in a fleet car, might as well get one that will save you a little money at the pump. The 3.3 in the Caravan...ancient engine, older than that 2.7 in the Sebring. It's a pushrod motor! We have one in our '02 Town and Country, and they were available as options on second-gen models. Seriously, I think you'll be happier in a car with okay power and a soft suspension (as long as you dont' push it) than a MUCH heavier minivan with about the same amount of power! and filling up will be much less painful.

Or, see if they'll let you turn down the car, and you can either drive the Miata or Porsche, or some other fun little car. or, see if they'll invest in a used Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor. It'd be a lot cheaper, and no-one would speed around you until they figure out that you're not really a cop...

 

[Smallhorses]

Fuel isn't a monetary concern, since a company car has all fuel, servicing and insurance costs paid anyway.
From a purely ecological standpoint I'd have to agree that the Sebring is more economical, and therefore is going to have less carbon emissions than the other two.
It's interesting that we're still not being given a Hybrid option, which would save the company money in the long run, but as far as I know Dodge/Chrysler don't yet make a hybrid, and that's who we're stuck with.

I don't want to drive either of my personal cars on a daily basis, purely to keep the miles down, but the option of taking a cash stipend and buying your own vehicle was eliminated as an option some years ago.
The logic behind the US-only choices being that there are tax incentives for homegrown companies to use homegrown manufacturers, even if they're not the best cars on the road.

@ YSSMAN & M5Power, I appreciate your discussion, but can we avoid turning this into a "Which US manufacturer makes the best cars" thread and stick to the original choices.

 

[TheCracker]

Nick - just go to a dealer and have a test drive in all 3 (or more) - if you're not physically paying for it and you have other toys in the garage, it comes down to which one feels, to you, the nicest to drive.

At the end of the day it matters little how it looks externally when you are in it (unless you regularly sit in traffic by heavily glazed buildings) and as long as it ticks all the right boxes as far as a commuting vehicle goes you might as well go for which one is the least offensive to spend time in. You can only get that impresion from a test drive.

 

[Jim Prower]

Also consider refinement...I'll bet the 3.3 is hooked up to one of Chrysler's lackluster early '90s 4-speed overdrive transmissions...I cannot tell you how often those give us trouble. It also shifts poorly.

and the Sebring doesn't look that bad. No, it's not pretty, but it's no Aztek. or a recent Citroen/Renault/Peugeot.

(Prepares to be chastised.)

EDIT: TheCracker makes a good point, though. You may want to try that.

 

[Tornado]

Jeep Patriot? You're surely kidding. I've driven several and several Compasses too. Honestly the worst SUVs I have ever been inside.

Yay!

 

[Gil]

Smallhorses,
My in-laws have one of the Pentastar mini-vans. It is a Grand Caravan/Voyager. It is a very nice 7-passenger vehicle. They run from Kansas City to Colorado Springs in it about 6-8 times a year.
They tend to drive it more than their Highlander.