The Matrix: Revolutions

[Famine]

I think this is best served here, rather than the films forum, but feel free to move it. I won't hate you forever. Probably.


I've just seen this film on DVD. Wow, and I thought the Matrix: Reloaded was ****.

If you haven't seen it, I agree entirely with Maddox's review of it (which can be found here - but don't read it at all if you've not seen it, as it may spoil the... What the hell am I talking about? You couldn't spoil this film if you replaced every frame with a steaming raccoon turd).

Every line is answered with a vague line bearing remarkable similarity to the question - "What do I do?" "You KNOW what you have to do"... "Where do I go?" "You KNOW where you need to go".

There's no sense that the director had anything to do with directing - we spend massive periods concentrating on one of the "two" storylines, followed by another massive period concentrating on another. If this were a book it'd be 500 pages long (mainly of repeating dialogue) and contain only four chapters.

So much of the non-repeating plot is telegraphed a mile off. I saw the defences of the machine city and thought "Why can't they go up? They're in a hovership.", and then when they did go up I said to my girlfriend (who was being similarly tortured) that I knew what they'd see, and, shock, I was exactly right - so much so that she asked if I'd seen it before. I obviously hadn't, because there's no way I'd watch it a second time.

People will say "Ah but it's a complex plot. You just didn't understand it.". Bollocks. I understood "Memento" just fine, and that has the most complex plot and chronology of any film ever.

Oh, and the Merovingian and the Trainman. Huh? What do they do? And why is the Oracle a different person (presumably the actress wanted too much money, or died)?

And last of all, "The Matrix: Revolutions answer all of the questions posed by The Matrix: Reloaded". No, it leaves one question wholly unanswered.


What the ****?



(apologies to anyone offended by any part of this. You obviously haven't just wasted money on this film. But at least it was only £2.50 DVD rental and not a cinema ticket. Can I have those hours of my life back now please?)

 

[240Z freak]

They didn't really have to make that movie any good, because people will see it anyway, just so they have seen the whole series, even if, as you said, every frame was replaced by a steaming raccoon turd.

 

[Ev0]

I totally agree. That movie was complete and utter dog feces, and ruined the trilogy for me (reloaded at least had some excellent action scenes).

The dialouge was pitiful, it sounded like it came from an episode of Power Rangers. The action scenes were very poorly done, especially the fight between Smith and Neo. I was sitting through the entire movie just hoping for a good fight, and instead, they just crash into eachother, fly off a couple of miles, and repeat 50 times. At that point I was ready to find the Wachowski (sp?) brothers and knee both of them in the groin, and take back my 16 dollars from them. Pitiful attempt at a movie.

 

[sn00pie]

The Zion fighting robot thingies are the effing bomb!!!

I like the robots.

The robots are cool. Mostly.

👍

 

[Famine]

Aliens... "Get away from her, you *****". Only with guns.

Actually, what in the name of Red Bull and vodka is a "Merovingian"?

 

[Der Alta]

I have to totally agree with you on this one.

I think one reviewer summed it up nicely "You're watching the Wachowski brothers play an action packed Video Game, but you'll never get the chance to taket he controller.'

The first movie was such an excellent enjoyable, rewatchable film (Highlander anyone?) the second movie came up with all this speculation and sub plot, and discreet emotion (well, except for that dance scene ) it pumped up the final movie so be the greatest movie ever.

Then it turns out the third trilogy never asked answered any questions that Reloaded posed.

I only saw the third movie once, and have no plans to see it again.

Agree with Famines thoughts above.

AO

 

[Dave A]

And I agree too, I liked the first one, the second wasn't special but it was watchable and the third was bollocks. I think the sequels wouldve been better if they focused more on the machines and the agents being the enemy instead of Smith being seperated from them and becoming super Smith so to speak.

 

[gt4]

while i havent yet seen revolutions (and dont plan on it) i can also complain about reloaded. when i first saw the first matrix i thought it was a brilliant movie. ive probably watched it 50 times. so needless to say when i heard that they were gonna make a trilogy i was pumped. but then i went and saw reloaded twice i think and i was soooo disappointed that there is no way i could go and watch revolutions especially after all the shi*y reviews that ive heard.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by Famine
Oh, and the Merovingian and the Trainman. Huh? What do they do?

I think the trainman is kinda like that mythological guy that takes people to hades on that boat...is there a boat? Anyway I guess that train station is kind of like an isolated pocket in the matrix that can only be accessed by the train man. Merovingian was a programer/hacker of matrix code (remember the the cake he gave to the woman) and he collects old "programs" from old verison of the matrix that should have been destroyed, like the twins and the keymaker.

Originally posted by Famine
And why is the Oracle a different person (presumably the actress wanted too much money, or died)?

She died so they had to replace the character and they explained the body change in the movie but I forgot what they said, I think it was something about her adopting another shell or something.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

I watched it and I liked it but not as much as the first one.

 

[Dave A]

The oracle changed bodies becaue the machines deleted her old one so she created a new one. Thats it in English anyway, replace the word body with shell, and deleted with destroyed and add another 32 sentences into it full or nonsence and thats the infilm explanation.

 

[240Z freak]

You could probably do that with any statement to "Matrix-ize" it.

EDIT: My 400th post. Yay!

 

[Famine]

Nonetheless, he's referred to as "The Merovingian". So what is "a Merovingian" if he is "The Merovingian"?


Whatever happened to the twins? Their names were on IMDB for the third film when it was in pre-production.


You realise that if I asked the Oracle any of these question, she'd say:
"You KNOW what a Merovingian is."

Stupid woman.

 

[Dave A]

Nut why do you want to know what a Merovigngian is? Would you want to know what a Merovingian is if you hadn't seen the Matrix films? You already know what a Merovingian is, you just don't know yet.

 

[240Z freak]

Indeed.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

The very deliberate Wachowski brothers drew this character's name from the Merovingian Dynasty of kings who, from 447 to 751 AD, united and ruled the region of Europe that today spans France and Germany. The Merovingian Kings, according to some sources, claimed direct descent from Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ. Others hold that the origin of the Merovingian Dynasty's power lies in the buried city of Atlantis, from which all culture, religion and language springs. The Merovingian himself claims "I have tried all the languages," before settling on French because he enjoys swearing in it.

The dynasty remains today as the Merovingian Order of the Holy Grail-1787, an rainbow coalition of esoteric religious sects. Key among them is the Order of the Holy Grail, first founded by Joseph of Arimethea in 54 AD at Rheddae (what is now Rennes le Chateau, in France). According to Grail legend, the Neutral Angels, who were sent to monitor man on earth, told the secrets of man's origin and purpose to Joseph who recorded it all in The Book of the Holy Grail. He also recorded the clues required to find the cup of life, the Grail itself. The primary purpose of the Order of the Holy Grail, and by extension the Merovingians, is to protect this book (also known as the Merovingian Bible) and the information within it.

Grafting the myth of the Holy Grail on to the Matrix is easy. The Grail Neo seeks is the mainframe source code. The Merovingian, protector of the file system, controls the flow of information and programs into and out of the Matrix. And, by holding the Keymaker, he also controls access to the mainframe. Like a Sphinx, the Merovingian knows all about Neo and his quest, more so than even Neo. He braggingly dangles his martini glass, a literal Grail, in front of the heroes, toying seductively with the olives in it. Confident that he can hold on to the Keymaker, he freely divulges the core meaning of existence: "All that matters is feeling. Beneath our poised appearance, we are completely out of control.... Causality: we are forever slaves to it."


and which twins are you refering to? I was talking about the freaky white guys with the dreads.

 

[Famine]

Did you copy and paste any of that?

Nice answer, nonetheless.

Same twins - used to be builders on a BBC home improvement programme presented by Carol Smillie. Their names were on the cast list at IMDB.com for the 3rd film when it was in pre-production. But they never turned up...

Apparently the actress playing the Oracle died of "diabetes"...

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by Famine
Did you copy and paste any of that?

http://www.thematrix101.com/matrix/

Originally posted by Famine
Same twins - used to be builders on a BBC home improvement programme presented by Carol Smillie. Their names were on the cast list at IMDB.com for the 3rd film when it was in pre-production. But they never turned up...

They died in the second movie when that SUV blew up.

Originally posted by Famine
Apparently the actress playing the Oracle died of "diabetes"...

Sure, thats what they want you to think, shes just in another "shell" now


WHile on the topic have you seen the animatrix? I like The Second Renaissance, you can read about it here:
http://www.thematrix101.com/animatrix/renaissance.php

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Yep, just watched the third film, and it's the stool of the monkey. Very disappointing. None of the ideas were really followed through. It's as if they came up with a bunch of ideas, and the CGI guys came up with a bunch of scenes. But I never really got the feeling that they were working together.

By the way Snoopie, the "Zion fighting robot thingies" are straight out of the Mechwarrior games.

 

[Dave A]

No, the mech warriors are massive, theyre not open either, the pilot's are enclosed in a cockpit. There the Aliens loaders with guns bolted on, anyone remeber Alice from the game AVP2?

 

[Mike Rotch]

I was peeved as I was under the impression that the third movie was going to answer the questions of the second movie. Instead all one got was more mumbo-jumbo questions and inferences that were left untouched

 

[Danoff]

I was peeved as I was under the impression that the third movie was going to answer the questions of the second movie. Instead all one got was more mumbo-jumbo questions and inferences that were left untouched

This is not a valid criticism of the movie. Your impression that the third movie was going to answer the questions that the second movie asked was correct, even more so than necessary because they answered even more questions than I think most people would have expected them to.

My criticism (even though I thoroughly enjoyed all three movies) is that they didn't answer some of the questions as creatively as they might have.

Anyway reloaded asks the following questions:

Was the prophecy a lie?
Will neo save the humans and break the cycle?
How does neo stop the squids at the end of the movie (reloaded)?
What role does smith play in the prophecy?
Which is the correct philosophy, choice or purpose?
Can neo defeat smith?

Revolutions answers those questions (spoilers here) with the following answers:
yes
yes
he's a prophet
culmination of the inherent flaw and destroyer of the matrix
choice
no

I didn't like some of those answers, number 4 particularly. I wasn't expecting number 5 since it wasn't necessary for them to answer. Anyway perhaps you could share some of the questions that you thought that second movie posed and the third movie didn't answer.

 

[Pupik]

Originally posted by Famine

People will say "Ah but it's a complex plot. You just didn't understand it.". Bollocks. I understood "Memento" just fine, and that has the most complex plot and chronology of any film ever.

Ah, my wife and I still discuss whether he's a madman or not in that film! (I say yes, she says no...great film nonetheless.)

I never saw either Matrix:Reaping More Money sequel, but I plan on it one day. From what I hear from my friends, I'm not missing anything.

Then again, I liked Ai.

 

[sn00pie]

A.I. is great!

 

[Pupik]

I think risingson77 liked it too. That makes 3 people.

Where's that crazy Vacation-lander anyhow?

 

[Danoff]

I understood "Memento" just fine, and that has the most complex plot and chronology of any film ever.

Prove it.

 

[xAkirax2004]

Originally posted by pupik
I think risingson77 liked it too. That makes 3 people.

Where's that crazy Vacation-lander anyhow?

I should go see him. Im only 20 min away from him.

 

[Famine]

Originally posted by danoff
Prove it.

Okay.

This bloke Leonard, who has no ability to make short term memories, is after the person who killed his wife - and left him with his "condition". He leaves clues for himself - as he'll forget them - in the form of polaroid photographs and tattoos all over his body. He knows certain facts about the killer. But above all he must remember Sammy Jankis - someone with a similar condition he investigated as an insurance claims assessor. Sammy Jankis was found to be able to make new memories through repetition, so his case was dismissed, and he accidentally killed his wife through an insulin overdose she got him to administer, because she believed he would remember and not keep injecting her.

Only Sammy Jankis didn't kill his wife - although Leonard remembers it that way. Leonard killed his own wife - Leonard IS Sammy Jankis, but without being Sammy Jankis (he is how he remembers Sammy Jankis to be, and not who Sammy Jankis really was).

Leonard is taken advantage of by characters played by Joe Pantoliano (who he later kills), Carrie-Ann Moss (who screws with him, after he's killed her boyfriend - a local drug dealer - in the belief that he was the killer of his wife). Although John Gemmill (Pantoliano's character) isn't really taking advantage of him, because Leonard can't remember killing the person who killed his wife (and injured him at the same time), even though he did, even though no-one killed his wife.

And the entire film plays backwards in 15 minute segments, interspersed with a black and white sequence of him on the phone in normal time.

 

[Danoff]

Okay.

Not good enough to be the most complex plot ever filmed in my mind.

Have you ever seen pi? I happen to think that the matrix is more complicated than that also... it has more nuance at the bare minimum.

Anyway, it's a statement you can't back up.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Okay, here we go...

The Oracle actress did die of diabetes, not "diabetes." Why put it in quotes? Are you skeptical or just poking fun at someone dying? The filmmakers made due with what they had, and explained that since the Oracle helped Neo, the Merovingian killed her. "When you take something from me, you will pay the price." Presumably, he is mad because this time around the cycle, the Keymaker is actually killed by Smith, who is out of the Machines' control now. But since you can't really get rid of the Oracle because she helped design the Matrix, she found herself another human-like "shell" to walk around in. She isn't human, but a part of the machine world, like the Merovingian and the Trainman.

The Merovingian's role is "trafficker of information." As stated before by someone else in this thread, he brings programs in and out of the Matrix. But he also smuggles things on the side, and retains certain programs which want to hide from the Machines and thus escape deletion (refer to the Oracle's speech about Werewolves and Vampires, and then refer to Persephone killing one of the Merovingian's programs with a silver bullet because it is "notoriously difficult to terminate" and you'll understand.)

Smith is Neo's negative, which is explained by the Oracle. But since Neo has chosen to disobey the Architect and return to the Matrix, the prophecy is fulfilled by Smith becoming more powerful as well. Whenever you see the two of them fight, it is obvious that they are perfect equals, and neither will ever defeat the other through combat alone.

The defense of Zion offers a glimpse into the history of the Matrix, since presumably it has happened 5 times previously, and we get to see what that looks like. The irony lies in the futility of this battle: these humans are trying desperately to defend their city, but we know there is no hope for them and that they are merely playing out their part in the cycle. It is kind of sad and pathetic, which is called PATHOS, and as an audience we are meant to be stirred emotionally by the scene. Mifune's death is a perfect example of such a tragic hero, who does not realize his fatal flaw - namely, the futility of his struggle. Whether or not you are actually moved by the fight is another matter entirely.

If you weren't blown away by the movie, that's one thing. But it was written properly and delivered well, but one of the major problems it faced was hype, and way too much of it at that. What would have made the Zion defense better, and how would you have liked to see Neo and Smith conclude their epic struggle?

However, Trinity's death scene is about 2 minutes too long. But to call this movie a wful is way off base. The photography is still beautiful, and the special effects are expertly done as well. The music was excellent and Hugo Weaving's over-the-top portrayal of SMith-gone-insane is gleefully realized. He is truly one of the most unforgettable villains in all of movie history.