The most recalled cars

[Takumi Fujiwara]

The Prius really NEEDS more recalls.

After almost three years of owning one, the car is a total piece of crap.

On more than one occasion, computer errors have rendered the car undrivable by refusing to engage the engine, limiting the car to about 15mph and whatever range can be had from the battery, and on each occasion the car has had to be sent to the dealer for an OS reinstall!

The taillights continually break, due to a badly designed reflector piece which just falls off, and requires the installation of new taillights. We're on our third (I think) set of them, and one is broken in the same way again (!), which leads me to beleive that it must be a design problem and not an isolated incident.

Not to mention that the interior is crap, with about half of the rubber "bumper" pieces that dampen closing the storage compartments just falling out, and the buttons on the steering wheel and stereo have had much of the finish/text wear off. The rubber cover on the parking brake pedal also falls off every time the brake is used.

 

[a6m5]

The Prius really NEEDS more recalls.

After almost three years of owning one, the car is a total piece of crap.

On more than one occasion, computer errors have rendered the car undrivable by refusing to engage the engine, limiting the car to about 15mph and whatever range can be had from the battery, and on each occasion the car has had to be sent to the dealer for an OS reinstall!

The taillights continually break, due to a badly designed reflector piece which just falls off, and requires the installation of new taillights. We're on our third (I think) set of them, and one is broken in the same way again (!), which leads me to beleive that it must be a design problem and not an isolated incident.

Not to mention that the interior is crap, with about half of the rubber "bumper" pieces that dampen closing the storage compartments just falling out, and the buttons on the steering wheel and stereo have had much of the finish/text wear off. The rubber cover on the parking brake pedal also falls off every time the brake is used.

Takumi Fujiwara(he hates this name): That is pretty bad. How many miles you got on that thing? Sounds like a nightmare.

 

[1X83Z]

They dont sell the celica anymore or the mr2 or the supra. Show me a fast toyota please. And when I mean fast I mean around 270hp.

In Europe perhaps, however be advised Toyota sells the quickest vehicle in several US markets. In fact, the new Camry does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds and is therefore the quickest midsize sedan ever made. The new RAV4, which has 269 horsepower, does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds, which is number two in the small SUV class, and the new Avalon runs a 6.2-second 0-60, putting it near that class's star, the Chrysler 300C. The Highlander Hybrid is among the quickest midsze SUVs, running a 7.3-second 0-60, and the Sequoia is among the quickest larges, at 7.9 seconds.

 

[Poverty]

Um, yes, there are fast Toyotas. But they're sold under the Lexus brand name. We'll see how fast Audi is when the LF-A is released. 500Hp won't be too dull then, will it?

a lexus isnt a toyota though, which I fully well know sell fast cars that can be rather exciting, so that argument doesnt count. I dont think the LF-A will worry audi with theyre 600+ hp bi-turbo R8

In Europe perhaps, however be advised Toyota sells the quickest vehicle in several US markets. In fact, the new Camry does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds and is therefore the quickest midsize sedan ever made. The new RAV4, which has 269 horsepower, does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds, which is number two in the small SUV class, and the new Avalon runs a 6.2-second 0-60, putting it near that class's star, the Chrysler 300C. The Highlander Hybrid is among the quickest midsze SUVs, running a 7.3-second 0-60, and the Sequoia is among the quickest larges, at 7.9 seconds.

I see, but would they be any good on the track?

I think the reason why we dont get toyotas like that in europe is because theyre not desirable at all, and if someone buys one its for the reliability and economy. The avanesis is get more tasty these days though, and is quite a nice car.

similiar survey in a different vein.

 

[Scaff]

a lexus isnt a toyota though, which I fully well know sell fast cars that can be rather exciting, so that argument doesnt count. I dont think the LF-A will worry audi with theyre 600+ hp bi-turbo R8

Hold on now, Lexus were perfectly OK in this regard when you created the following thread

'Toyota recalls 380,000 lexus'

And now they are not?

Lexus are Toyota's luxury brand, as basically said by Toyota themselves. However you need to either seperate them totally in all your threads/posts or admit that they are to a large degree one and the same.

The Lexus and Toyota brands exist to support each other, with little or no real cross-over in models and target audiences.

I see, but would they be any good on the track?

Very, very few road cars will be good on a track out of the box, however if a Kia can win the Androis ice race championship, then anything is possiable.

I think the reason why we dont get toyotas like that in europe is because theyre not desirable at all, and if someone buys one its for the reliability and economy. The avanesis is get more tasty these days though, and is quite a nice car.

similiar survey in a different vein.

And what exactly are you saying with the results above?

That Toyota are not seen as a asperational brand? Well thats hardly news is it, they have never sold on that at all and I fail to see what that has to do with reliability at all.

What I do see from that however is that Lexus is the forth most desired brand in the survey, so it would seem that the Toyota and Lexus brands are doing exactly what they are designed to do in that regard.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

The JD power results posted above mine arent all about reliability either. If the car has a poo navigation system, and enough people complain it will score low on the rankings. Same with cup holders etc, and therefore the more advanced vehicles are straight away at a disadvantage.

UK 2006 JD Power/WhatCar? Satisfaction Survey - British-built means best-built

Introduction

While Japanese brands continue to dominate the customer satisfaction rankings, four of the top 10 most-satisfying models are built in Britain, according to the J.D. Power and Associates/What Car? magazine 2006 Car Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) study released today. The Honda Civic, Toyota Avensis, Toyota Corolla and Jaguar S-Type, which are all built in Britain, rank within the top 10 models in the study, while British brands Mini and Jaguar rank within the top 10 nameplates.

Skoda, BMW and Volvo represent the remaining European brands in the top 10. Luxury Japanese brand Lexus tops the rankings for a sixth consecutive year, with a customer satisfaction score of 873 index points from a possible 1000-point.

Movers and shakers

With a 25-point increase from the 2005 study, Lexus also attains the award for the most-improved brand in 2006. Honda (848), Skoda (842) and Toyota (838) follow Lexus in the rankings, and Mercedes-Benz, Hyundai, Volkswagen and Subaru also show strong improvement in overall customer satisfaction.

Lexus also builds the highest-ranking model in the study, the Lexus IS (868 points). The Honda Jazz, which ranked highest in 2004 and 2005, follows the IS at 861 points. With an increase of 48 index points from 2005, the Suzuki Liana (856) ranks third overall. Those that show the greatest improvement in satisfaction with dealer service include Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, Volkswagen and Subaru.

How the study works

The 2006 JD Power/WhatCar? Study is based on the evaluations of nearly 15,000 UK car owners after an average of two years of ownership. The study includes 30 brands and 105 models. Owners provide detailed evaluations of their vehicles and dealers, which covers 77 attributes grouped into four measurements of satisfaction. In order of importance, they are:

• Quality and Reliability (30%)
• Vehicle Appeal (28%) - includes performance, design, comfort and features
• Dealer Service Satisfaction (22%)
• Ownership Costs (19%), which includes fuel consumption, insurance and costs of service/repair.

Source: http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=220197&EL=3160618

76,000 people, 159 cars - it's the UK's biggest independent car satisfaction survey.

Each of the 76,050 Top Gear viewers and readers who took part in our survey this year were asked to reveal how every aspect of the car ownership experience matched up to the expectations they had when they first took delivery of their vehicle.

Each car is given an overall satisfaction score out of 100. This is made up from:

Build quality (22%)

Craftsmanship (22%)

Driving experience (19%)

Ownership costs (17%)

Customer care (20%)

manufacturers' positions...

1 Lexus93.2
2 Skoda91.5
3 Honda90.0
4 Mazda88.9
5 Toyota88.4
6 Subaru88.3
7 Mini88.0
8 Porsche87.1
9 Jaguar87.0
10 BMW86.4
11 Hyundai86.1
12 Audi84.9
13 Volvo85.3
14 Saab84.1
15 Suzuki83.9
16 Seat83.6
17 Lotus83.5
18 Smart83.5
19 Nissan82.6
20 Chrysler82.2
21 Volkswagen82.2
22 Rover82.1
23 Kia82.1
24 Mitsubishi81.9
25 Ford81.7
26 MG80.9
27 Vauxhall80.6
28 Alfa Romeo79.9
29 Jeep79.4
30 Daewoo78.4
31 Land Rover78.2
32 Mercedes77.9
33 Citroën77.8
34 Renault76.4
35 Fiat76.0
36 Peugeot74.2

winning cars by class...from place 159 to 1
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/stories/01/5.html

Few examples:
159 Peugeot 807
155 Mercedes M-Class
143 Mercedes A-Class
139 Mercedes E-Class
115 Mercedes C-Class
69 Audi A3
64 Audi A6/Allroad
55 Audi A4
54 BMW X5
49 BMW 5-Series
42 BMW Z4
38 BMW 3-Series
33 Porsche 911
30 BMW 5-Series (pre-June '03)
24 Toyota Corolla
11 Toyota Yaris
10 Subaru Forester
9 Skoda Fabia
8 Subaru Legacy
7 Honda Accord
6 Honda Jazz
5 Skoda Octavia
4 Skoda Superb
3 Lexus RX300
2 Lexus IS200/300
1 Honda S2000


J.D. POWER AND ASSOCIATES REPORTS: AUDI AND VOLKSWAGEN MODELS ARE AMONG THE MOST SATISFYING TO OWN

Two Audi and two Volkswagen models rank highest in satisfying owners, according to the J.D. Power and Associates/CAR Magazine 2005 South Africa Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study(SM) released today. The four awards -- which are the most received by any manufacturer in the study -- are for the Audi A3, Audi A4, Volkswagen Citi Golf and the Volkswagen Touran.
(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/...7/LAF028LOGO-a )
In addition to the Volkswagen-Audi models, General Motors and Mitsubishi models each receive two awards while BMW, Ford, Honda and Subaru models each receive a single award.
The CSI Study is a comprehensive measurement of ownership satisfaction covering 77 attributes grouped into four factors of satisfaction (the importance of each factor is shown as a percentage):
- Vehicle quality and reliability (32%) - Vehicle appeal (29%) -- includes performance, design, comfort, styling and features - Dealership service satisfaction (19%) - Cost of ownership (20%) -- includes fuel consumption, insurance and cost of service/repair
The importance weights are developed based on survey responses from vehicle owners, thus reflecting what is most important to South Africa's motorists. CSI performance is reported as an index score based on a 1000-point scale. A higher CSI score indicates a more satisfying ownership experience...

Hold on now, Lexus were perfectly OK in this regard when you created the following thread

'Toyota recalls 380,000 lexus'

And now they are not?

Lexus are Toyota's luxury brand, as basically said by Toyota themselves. However you need to either seperate them totally in all your threads/posts or admit that they are to a large degree one and the same.

The Lexus and Toyota brands exist to support each other, with little or no real cross-over in models and target audiences.

I just copied and pasted that thread straight off another website, title included.

However toyota and lexus are still pretty much seperate brands. Yes lexus make some fast cars, but how is that going to help the less wealthy potential toyota customer? VAG manage to make exciting cars for each of theyre companies and toyota seems to have decided to drop all its exciting vehicles, with no news of a replacement.

 

[Scaff]

The JD power results posted above mine arent all about reliability either. If the car has a poo navigation system, and enough people complain it will score low on the rankings. Same with cup holders etc, and therefore the more advanced vehicles are straight away at a disadvantage.

Which neither the Top Gear or JD power surveys attempt to hide, neither claims to be a sole indicator of reliability, but they are a strong indicator of the worth of the brand and as (in the case of JD power) 52% of the result comes from quality of build, reliability and the dealerships actions its a damn good guide.

Its a total myth that a single issue such as cup holders will effect the survey to such a degree needed to drag an entire brand down, normally used by people trying to defend a manufacturers low position in a survey.

However toyota and lexus are still pretty much seperate brands. Yes lexus make some fast cars, but how is that going to help the less wealthy potential toyota customer? VAG manage to make exciting cars for each of theyre companies and toyota seems to have decided to drop all its exciting vehicles, with no news of a replacement.

I'm sorry but I would disagree that Toyota and Lexus are seperate brands to that degree, they are still sold from same site dealers and the product ranges are designed to compliment each other (unlike the VAG group who split VW and Audi dealers specifically so they could compete in certain model ranges).

Toyota may not produce the most exciting model range at present, but I totally fail to see what that has to do with either reliability, recalls, manufacturer response to recalls or the strange bias shown towards them in your recent threads.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

As a ex toyota owner, I dont see where this supposed bias would stem from upon my behalf?

However it is well documentated that the more complex a vehicle, the more likely it is to succomb to design and manufacturing faults, but seeing as toyota are using long proven technology, and that theyre more recent vehicles reliability seems to be going down the pan compared to theyre reputation they are going seriously wrong somewhere, as the main reason why people buy a toyota is because of its reliability, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[McLaren]

WHAT?! Lexus ARE Toyotas.
Lexus RX models - Toyota Harrier
Lexus GS models - Toyota Aristo
Lexus SC models - Toyota Soarer

Until recently, Lexus was never available in Japan, so they sold the cars under Toyota.

 

[Danny]

Also,

Lexus LX= Toyota Landcruiser
Lexus IS= Toyota Altezza

 

[Poverty]

skoda fabia = seat ibiza

etc
etc
etc

 

[Danny]

I thought the Fabia was built on the VW Polo platform?

Also, you said that Lexus and Toyota are different, not Skoda/Audi

 

[Poverty]

I dont see what lexus has to do with toyotas not being boring. Show me a exciting and fast new toyota I can buy that has a toyota badge and comes with a toyota price.

 

[Scaff]

As a ex toyota owner, I dont see where this supposed bias would stem from upon my behalf?

The impression of bias has come from the nature and tone in recent threads and posts you have made, I've already covered my reasoning behind this in my first post in this very thread.

However it is well documentated that the more complex a vehicle, the more likely it is to succomb to design and manufacturing faults, but seeing as toyota are using long proven technology, and that theyre more recent vehicles reliability seems to be going down the pan compared to theyre reputation they are going seriously wrong somewhere, as the main reason why people buy a toyota is because of its reliability, nothing more and nothing less.

Once again you are making a direct link between recalls and reliability, a number of people, including myself would dispute this link. The number of recalls issued is not a direct link to the reliability of a vehicle, I've already pointed out that some manufacturer will hide recalls within a single campaign, so the customer and the press see one recall, but when the car gets to the dealership two, three or even more jobs are carried out. This is a well know method in the industry of disguising the amount of work a vehicle needs. I know this because I have been directly involved in recall campaigns for a number of manufacturers.

You also state that the reason why people buy Toyota's is nothing more and nothing less that reliabilty.

Well first off you have not produced any real evidence that true reliability (not recalls) is on the increase is large terms for Toyota products. Secondly it's certainly not the only reason why people buy them (it is a strong factor), what about overall value (not just purchase price, but whole life costs), the excellent dealer network and for the everyman (car enthusiasts actually make up a very small proportion of car buyers) apeal of the model range.

I dont see what lexus has to do with toyotas not being boring. Show me a exciting and fast new toyota I can buy that has a toyota badge and comes with a toyota price.

And this has what to do with reliability?

You keep labeling Toyota's model range as boring, and to the enthusiast it may well be. However we are not currently Toyota's target market and the needs and demands of the average car buyer have nothing to do with speed and excitment.

The most succesful cars in any volume sector are rarely fast or exciting, so I fail to see what this adds to a discussion on recalls and reliability.


Regards

Scaff

 

[McLaren]

I dont see what lexus has to do with toyotas not being boring. Show me a exciting and fast new toyota I can buy that has a toyota badge and comes with a toyota price.

We did. The Toyota Aristos and Altezzas are them.

 

[Poverty]

Your right, recalls and complexity of a vehicle doesnt necessarily tie in with reliability, but a more complex product is more likely to have a recall.

We did. The Toyota Aristos and Altezzas are them.

Keyword being did, and we must have different definitions of what we regard as exciting.

 

[Poverty]

double post

 

[Scaff]

Your right, recalls and complexity of a vehicle doesnt necessarily tie in with reliability, but a more complex product is more likely to have a recall.

More likely is correct, but its certainly not a given. It does depend on the technology and the amount (and scale) of testing done before release, also the actual quality of the supplied parts.

As an example lets look at the recent problems encountered by Mercedes Benz, who have now openly admited that reliabilty has taken a major nose-dive over recent years. In a drive to be the first to the market with new technology they rushed complex systems to market without the range and depth of testing that arguably should have happend, the end result was a number of models with very poor records (by Mercss own admission) in reliability. However very little of this resulted in recalls, most being resolved under the standard manufacturers warranty.

You have to remember that recalls are (in most markets) only mandatory if they are safety related, anything else is a choice for the manufacturer. Its why recalls are not a good indicator of reliability.

Another big hit on recalls and reliability can be nothing to do with complexity or technology, rather its cost cutting. Some one in a post earlier mentioned coil packs failing. Now this is an issue for at least a dozen manufacturers that I know of, and possiably more. The reason is quite simple to cut a few cents off each unit they went with the cheapest supplier and unfortunatly the parts were not up to the job.

As a result the coils fail early and have to be replaced, now how the manufacturer deals with this when it arrises is arguably the critical factor here. Do they just replace the failed coil and leave the rest (knowing that the other are likely to also fail) or do they bite the bullet and replace all at once.

Its that final distinction that to be honest is perhaps the most important to the customer. As M5Power mentioned in another post, reliability is relative in most modern cars, the difference betwen unreliable and reliable is far narrower today than at any point in the history of the car.

What has become the critical focus is how well the dealership and manufacturer reacts to a problem when it occurs. Do they change all the coil packs or just the one that failed?

Looked at it in this way, that non-safety recalls are not mandatory and how you react to a problem is as important as the problem itself, and it casts a totally different light on recalls.

Recalls are news fodder for when its needed, in the industry they are seldom used as a judge of anything, what we look at far more carefully is how a recall is actioned.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

+ rep for that. Good post, has cleared up some misconceptions.

 

[Scaff]

+ rep for that. Good post, has cleared up some misconceptions.

Thank you 👍

Scaff

 

[daggoth]

toyota is because of its reliability, nothing more and nothing less.

I have a Supra and although I was expecting reliability it wasn't the reason I bought it. You see people lining up to buy an AE86. It's a twenty-year-old car that isn't that reliable anymore and will most likely be trashed in a road or track.

I dont see what lexus has to do with toyotas not being boring. Show me a exciting and fast new toyota I can buy that has a toyota badge and comes with a toyota price.

Show me a fast VW then. You cannot compare Toyota with Audi since they target different costumers you have to compare it to VW.

Also,

Lexus LX= Toyota Landcruiser
Lexus IS= Toyota Altezza

You people only forgot the Lexus LS= Toyota Celsior

 

[Poverty]

I have a Supra and although I was expecting reliability it wasn't the reason I bought it. You see people lining up to buy an AE86. It's a twenty-year-old car that isn't that reliable anymore and will most likely be trashed in a road or track.

My dad had a AE86, said it was fast for its time, but im talking about toyotas on sale today. To me supra>>>godzilla[

Show me a fast VW then. You cannot compare Toyota with Audi since they target different costumers you have to compare it to VW.

And a faster version is on the drawing board.

You people only forgot the Lexus LS= Toyota Celsior

damn toyota is boring these days.

 

[McLaren]

Fast Toyotas live under the Lexus name for 1 reason. Hardly anyone will pay $60,000 for a Toyota sports car because of the name Toyota. Toyota isn't at the point in its life anymore will it can bring out a $50,000 sports car and expect it to sell well. So, this is where Lexus comes in. Since Lexus already has a history of selling luxury sports cars, people are more likely to buy from them.

Put this thought out.
The Altezza is brought to America.
Let's say Toyota markets the Altezza just a couple grand below the IS350.
The IS350 starts at $36,000 with a 300Bhp V6 so let's say Toyota puts the Altezza at $34,000 with a 280Bhp V6.

Lexus has a reputation of selling sports cars in this range these days. Toyota in the US doesn't. None of it's 2006 cars go over $26,000. So, we have a $26,000 Avalon and then a car that's $8,000 more. "Top of the line" Toyota. However, at Lexus it's near bottom of the line, and has more features....Which do you think will sell better?

The Lexus. It's got more options, and power for $2,000 more. It's also the one of the starting cars for a luxury company. The Toyota is a top of the liner, and an $8,000 more than the $25,000 Avalon.

This may not have to do with a fast Toyota, but it should help you see why fast Lexuses, which are technically Toyotas to begin with, are sold under the Lexus name. It's got a better reputation these days. This is exactly like the Honda NSX. You can say back then, where are the fast Hondas in 1990? They were at Acura because no one was going to pay $65,000 for a Honda NSX while Acura, the more trusted company for sports cars, could.

It's a simple marketing deal. People suspect Toyota/Honda when they start making sports cars that can rival BMW. They wonder what's the catch with a company that builds eco-friendly vehicles. But at Lexus/Acura, they don't care.

That is exactly why you will see the LF-A under Lexus. People are going to wonder why there is a $90,000 Toyota when at Lexus whose market contains of $70,000 cars, won't care.

 

[Poverty]

Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 06V096000 Recall Date : MAR 28, 2006
Component: AIR BAGS
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 133
Summary:
ON CERTAIN VEHICLES, DUE TO IMPROPER ASSEMBLY OF THE AIR BAG INFLATOR, WHICH IS USED IN THE SIDE AIR BAG, THE CURTAIN SHIELD AIR BAG, AND THE KNEE AIR BAG ASSEMBLY, SOME INFLATORS WERE PRODUCED WITH AN INSUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF THE HEATING AGENTS NECESSARY FOR PROPER AIR BAG DEPLOYMENT. IN THIS CONDITION, THE EXPANSION FORCE OF THE GAS MAY BE INSUFFICIENT TO PROPERLY INFLATE THE AIR BAG WHEN THE SRS SYSTEM IS ACTIVATED DURING A CRASH.
Consequence:
THIS MAY INCREASE THE RISK OF INJURY TO THE OCCUPANT IN THE INVOLVED SEATING POSITION IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH.

Make : TOYOTA Model : PRIUS Year : 2006
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 06V188000 Recall Date : MAY 30, 2006
Component: STEERING:ELECTRIC POWER ASSIST SYSTEM
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 170856
Summary:
THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT AND SLIDING YOKE IN THE ELECTRIC POWER STEERING SYSTEM CAN CRACK WHEN LARGE FORCES ARE APPLIED AND THE CONNECTION MAY SEPARATE OR THE SLEEVE MAY FRACTURE.
Consequence:
THIS COULD RESULT IN A LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE.


Make : TOYOTA Model : TACOMA Year : 2006
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 06V061000 Recall Date : FEB 27, 2006
Component: TIRES:BEAD
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 12020
Summary:
ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS, THE BEAD OF THE TIRE MAY BE DAMAGED DUE TO IMPROPER ASSEMBLY OF THE TIRES ONTO THE WHEELS.
Consequence:
IF THE VEHICLE IS OPERATED IN THIS CONDITION, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT A BULGE MAY BE FORMED ON THE SIDEWALL AND AIR MAY LEAK FROM THE AREA OF THE DAMAGED BEAD AND A CRASH COULD OCCUR.


Pretty serious recalls there, over 10.1% of all toyotas made and imported in the US in 2005 have recalls against them. I wonder what the figure will be for 2006.

 

[Famine]

Didn't Audi once recall every single TT they'd ever made due to an aerodynamic design flaw? And I seem to remember that BMW recalled every BINI they'd made up until the recall because of a fault which could lead to a spark between the petrol filler aperture and a fuel pump.

OMG! Worst cars ev4h!

 

[Poverty]

BMW is indeed the world's third-most-profitable carmaker. Earnings as a percentage of revenue in 2005, before interest and taxes, were 8.1 percent. That compares with Porsche's 17.3 percent and Toyota's 8.9 percent, according to HypoVereinsbank of Munich.

Oh my look. Toyota has overtaken BMW as the 2nd most profitable car manufacturer. Toyota must be making those cars real cheap somehow, and obviously somewhere along the line the quality has suffered, just like MB did which was theyre downfall.

Didn't Audi once recall every single TT they'd ever made due to an aerodynamic design flaw?

It was precautionary, and if you disagree jaguar should recall its latest XK.

All TT models were recalled in late 1999/early 2000 following concerns over the car's handling which was considered unstable under high-speed cornering as the result of throttle lift-off oversteer - a number of modifications were made, which were subsequently incorporated into all future examples: rear-wing spoilers were fitted (to reduce lift) and suspension settings were altered (to increase understeer).

 

[Scaff]

What part of this affecting all manufacturers is such a problem and why once again are you singling out a single manufacturer.

This game can be played with any manufacturer, lets see about year to date for Vauxhall shall we.

R/2006/006
Manufacturer Ref : 05C39
Make: VAUXHALL
Model : CORSA C, COMBO C AND TIGRA B
Launch Date : 22/03/2006
Numbers Involved : 217374
Build Start Date :
Build End Date :
Details
Concern : WATER INGRESS INTO ABS WIRING MAY CAUSE A SHORT CIRCUIT AND A FIRE
Description : It has been identified that the above vehicles could be affected by moisture ingress at the ABS connector. The moisture can enter through the ground wiring connection, which can lead to the ABS not functioning correctly, overheating within the connector, and in extreme cases a fire.
Remedial Action : Recalled vehicles will have the ABS harness plug checked for moisture ingress and where necessary, the wiring harness and control unit will be replaced. In all other cases, the ground cable will be secured against ingress of moisture, by soldering the cable sockets and applying shrink tubes.
Vehicle Id : *********5E000023 to *********5E037478
*********44000009 to *********54330240
*********43000023 to *********54330240


Reference : R/2006/025
Manufacturer Ref :
Make: VAUXHALL
Model : Astra H
Launch Date : 06/04/2006
Numbers Involved : 2510
Build Start Date : 01/01/2005
Build End Date : 03/02/2006
Details
Concern : POSSIBLE LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL
Description : It has been identified that on affected vehicle's the right hand front lower control arm guide joint may be incorrectly mounted. In the worst case, the lower control arm could work loose, separate from the steering knuckle and severely impair the control of the vehicle.
Remedial Action : Recalled vehicles will have the guide joint checked for correct mounting, and replaced if the mounting is found to be incorrect.
Vehicle Id :


Reference : R/2006/050
Manufacturer Ref :
Make: VAUXHALL
Model : Vectra C
Launch Date : 17/05/2006
Numbers Involved : 1172
Build Start Date : 01/01/2006
Build End Date : 09/03/2006
Details
Concern : REAR SEAT CENTRE BELT MIGHT NOT RESTRAIN THE SEAT OCCUPANT IN A FRONTAL IMPACT
Description : It has been identified that during the manufacturing process, the lock bar may not have been fitted to the belt retractor. In the worst case, the restraint function of the rear seat centre belt might not operate correctly in the case of a frontal impact.
Remedial Action : Recalled vehicles will have the rear centre seat belt inspected and replaced if necessary.
Vehicle Id :


Reference : R/2006/052
Manufacturer Ref : 06C009
Make: VAUXHALL
Model : MONARO AND MONARO VXR
Launch Date : 17/05/2006
Numbers Involved : 799
Build Start Date :
Build End Date :
Details
Concern : AIRBAG MAY INADVERTENTLY DEPLOY
Description : In some circumstances there is a possibility that the side airbag may inadvertently deploy.
Remedial Action : Recall the vehicles that are likely to be affected and fit additional springs to the front seats so that any electrostatic discharge will correctly earthed.
Vehicle Id : 6G1VX14F84L193858 to 6G1ZX14U15L525799


Reference : R/2006/088
Manufacturer Ref : 06C014
Make: VAUXHALL
Model : Vectra C and Signum
Launch Date : 14/06/2006
Numbers Involved : 1220
Build Start Date : 01/01/2004
Build End Date : 30/12/2006
Details
Concern : HEATED WASHER NOZZLE MAY SHORT CIRCUIT
Description : It is possible that moisture may enter the heated washer nozzle housing and cause a short circuit of the heating elements. In the worse case a fire may ensue.
Remedial Action : Recall the vehicles that are likely to be affected to disconnect the heated washer nozzle housings.
Vehicle Id :


So thats for Vauxhall recalls (mandatory safety recalls from VOSA only) in the last 6 months in the UK alone.

Would you like me to go on?

Maybe not, but lets have some fun


BMW
Reference : R/2006/119
Manufacturer Ref :
Make: BMW
Model : 5,6 AND 7 SERIES
Launch Date : 06/07/2006
Numbers Involved : 3743
Build Start Date :
Build End Date :
Details
Concern : REAR SHOCK ABSORBER MOUNTING MAY FAIL
Description : It has been identified that the lower rubber mounting on the metal bush of the rear shock absorbers may fail to meet the quality requirement. Dependant on the mileage and operating conditions the rubber mounting may come completely free from the shock absorber. If this occurs the bodywork would no longer be supported above the wheels, causing it to come into contact with the wheel concerned. Should this occur the possibility exists that a critical driving condition might occur or even the risk of an accident.
Remedial Action : Recalled vehicles will have the rear shock absorbers checked, and replaced if necessary.
Vehicle Id :


or how about

Bentley
Reference : R/2006/024
Manufacturer Ref : RE06/01
Make: BENTLEY MOTOR CARS
Model : ARNARGE T, R AND RL
Launch Date : 01/02/2006
Numbers Involved : 42
Build Start Date : 01/01/2004
Build End Date : 31/05/2005
Details
Concern : WHEEL FIXING BOLTS MAY LOOSEN
Description : Due to the possibility of the road wheels having an incorrect finish, the potential exists for the wheel fixing bolts to loosen. This defect could lead to the road wheel becoming detached from the hub.
Remedial Action : Affected vehicles will have all the road wheels, including the spare (if it is a full size wheel) and all the wheel fixing bolts replaced
Vehicle Id :

So we have here Bentley's with wheels that may fall off, BMW's with suspension mounting that could fail and a range of Vauxhall's catching fire, failing to restrain people and with airbags going off by themselves.


I could honestly go on for days with this.


However you do seriously need to look at the language used in recalls, the number of times the words 'could', 'may', 'some', etc are used.


These are preventitive measures that by law must be carried out on all vehicles that may be affected, if a manufacturer can't prove that a chassis range will not be affected they have to recall them.

You seem to have a wild desire to post up as much negative information about a single vehicle manufacturer as you can, now its strikes me that either your source of information has a rather large bias against this manufacturer or you do.

I mean obtaining information on UK safety recalls is not exactly difficult, the information is after all public domain.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp


Regards

Scaff

 

[Famine]

It was precautionary

No s***? You mean like... every other vehicle recall ever?

 

[Scaff]

Oh my look. Toyota has overtaken BMW as the 2nd most profitable car manufacturer. Toyota must be making those cars real cheap somehow, and obviously somewhere along the line the quality has suffered, just like MB did which was theyre downfall.

Sorry but still have not shown a single piece of evidence to show that Toyota's reliabilty has decreased, I have already detailed how recalls do not prove this in any way shape or form.

Increased profitability does not just come from makeing cars 'cheap', if that was the case GM and Ford whould be towering giants of profitability given the buying power they have over suppliers. It is far from 'obvious' that 'somewhere along the line quality has suffered', a statement like that is speculation dressed up as fact.

Toyota have long been one of the most profitable manufacturers, alongside Porsche, who's profitabilty continues to grow. Does that mean that Porsche are now building unreliable cars? From your logic that would be the case.

It was precautionary, and if you disagree jaguar should recall its latest XK.

All recalls are technically precautionary, however it was a mandatory safety recall. Audi had no choice in the matter what so ever.

Reference : R/2000/008
Manufacturer Ref : 40E4
Make: AUDI
Model : TT
Launch Date : 17/04/2000
Numbers Involved : 3101
Build Start Date : 01/09/1998
Build End Date : 31/12/1999
Details
Concern : INSTABILITY AND LOSS OF DIRECTIONAL CONTROL COULD OCCUR
Description : The TT proves to have a relatively narrow handling limit zone if extreme manoeuvres are undertaken at high speed which could lead, in the worst case, to a precise steering response to retain directional control. Instability and loss of directional control could occur. These characteristics have led to some customers objecting to the cars road behaviour. In an attempt to improve customer satisfaction, the cars physical reactions are to be modified so the vehicles behaviour becomes more predictable at the handling limits.
Remedial Action : Likely to be affected vehicles will be recalled for modifications to the suspension settings and the addition of a rear spoiler.
Vehicle Id : TRU zzz 8N z X1 000 101 to TRU zzz 8N z X1 026 905
TRU zzz 8N z Y1 000 101 to TRU zzz 8N z Y1 060 000


Facts before speculation please, because at present you are offering little information that appears un-biased.

I mean if you want to play with figures, Vauxhall registered 369,850 cars in the UK in 2005 (source GM financial statement March 2006), yet in March of this year one recall alone affected 217,374 vehicles (source VOSA). Thats the equivilent of 59% of all Vauhalls sold in 2005 (which makes Toyota 10% seem rather good now doesn't it).


Scaff

 

[Poverty]

No s***? You mean like... every other vehicle recall ever?

no

Toyota have long been one of the most profitable manufacturers, alongside Porsche, who's profitabilty continues to grow. Does that mean that Porsche are now building unreliable cars? From your logic that would be the case.

Toyota are the primark of the automotive world. Dull, boring and cheap. Manufacturers of cheap reliable cars shouldnt be making the second highest profit per vehicle at all.

Sorry but still have not shown a single piece of evidence to show that Toyota's reliabilty has decreased,

Im not trying to. All im saying is that theyre current ways are going against theyre past reputation, of which you buy a toyota drive it for a 100,000 miles without a servicing and any trouble or things falling off.