The MRA, MGTOW & Red Pill Thread

[VBR]

I've been going down the MRA, MGTOW & Red Pill rabbit hole for a while now & I'm finding it all very interesting indeed, so, I decided it would be a good idea to share what I found with you. I strongly recommend that you watch a documentary by feminist filmmaker Cassie Jaye called The Red Pill, & then think deeply about it before replying (it's free if you have Amazon Prime but is also available elsewhere). Do not confuse the Red Pill movement with The Red Pill documentary, as they are completely different things.


What is the MRA/Men's Rights Activists movement?

"It is the mission of A Voice for Men to provide education and encouragement to men and boys; to lift them above the din of misandry, to reject the unhealthy demands of gynocentrism in all its forms, and to promote their mental, physical and financial well-being without compromise or apology." Source. When feminist filmmaker Cassie Jaye decided to make a documentary on the MRA exposing them as the misogynists she'd been told by many that they were, her film took her on a very different journey than she had originally anticipated.

Spoiler: More Information...

What is the MGTOW lifestyle?

"MGTOW (”Men Going Their Own Way”) is a way of life which refuses to defer to women in defining the worth of men. Instead, it focuses on positive male aspects, inviting men to go their own way in life."

Spoiler: More information...

"Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) refers to men committed to self-determination. Referring to oneself as a ”’Man Going His Own Way”’ (MGHOW) is a statement of self-ownership and a declaration that a man has the supreme right to decide what his goals in life will be as opposed to having his goals dictated by others who, in preference to self-determination, prescribe utility-based roles for males entailing servitude to women and society." Source.

What is the Red Pill movement?

"The Red Pill signifies the recognition of the true nature of female behaviour, including her attraction to traits of dominance, preference for men with status, attraction to men who have been pre-selected by other women, and hypergamous nature. Red Pill men are aware that women are strongly influenced by the culture and that their attraction cues are often outside of their conscious awareness."

Spoiler: More information...

"Increasingly, modern women and especially Western women indulge in one-night stands and short-term relationships in their 20s with alpha males, followed by seeking out a Beta Male Provider in their late 20s and early 30s. Red Pill men are aware of this phenomenon and develop a sexual strategy to benefit from a woman's promiscuity as well as avoid the financial peril of marriage. Married men can also be Red Pill, as their awareness helps them handle female s**t tests and maintain attraction with their partner. A man who has taken the Red Pill is committed to self-improvement and adapting to the reality of female behaviour whether that be through the application of game in his relationships and/or withdrawing from LTRs. Taking the Red Pill is typically followed by more success in relationships and interactions with women." Source

Any MRA/MGTOW/Red Pill aware guys & gals here, & if so; what's your take on all of this?

 

[Danoff]

The video sequence is an interesting ladder. You take one step (first video) from feminism to simply seeing people as human instead of according to gender. You take another step (second video) into a focus on the male gender, and lastly you take a step (third video) to stereotyping women.

The last video is extremely off-putting. The other two are just people who refuse to accept beliefs uncritically (at least within the confines of those videos).

Edit: OP has since been updated to change the 3rd video.

 

[nostradavor2]

I'm aware of this movements because, well to be honest because I watch and read useless stuff often. It's pretty similar to any other movements, mgtow people will have strong arguments for their views, some of their arguments are even 100% spot on.

I rather ask myself a question why are these movements needed in first place. Anyone can rationalize almost anything and convince others that it makes sense. My opinion is that they can convince a lot of men in any of listed movements because men in general got very weak(specially mentally). I don't think there was point in history where men felt so weak and depressed.

Don't know what's the reason behind that. Maybe the fact that total testosterone and free testosterone in average male dropped for around 30% in past 40-50 years which is enormous and no one talks about it. But to end my rumbling, their points are good but they shouldn't blame women for their issues. It just can't be women's fault if you let her mess with you emotionally, financially or whatever(she's taking advantage of situation which is natural for human beings) . It is their fault because they are weak whiney man which women don't want because men aren't supposed to be whiney little b""" ".

It's like nowadays you can't tell fat people that he/she is fat because it's "fat shaming". Sure it's fat shaming but you are stil FAT, you don't need a MOVEMENT, you need DIET and EXERCISE. It is the same thing, they talk how women should be used for sex only, don't ever marry them because they are all ho****s blah blah blah. This movements aren't written by alfa men who gets sex regularly or has good relationships. It's written by the men who is weak and is afraid of women (some more extreme movement showed that by seeking violence towards women etc). So I think that solution for men who are "mistreated" by women is to MAN UP and stop making a movement on one side and cry over a women on other side so maybe than you'll get RESPECT from a women.

I agree women behavior has changed on worse, but it's natural selection, women should see in men/man someone who she respects(PACK LEADER) , than she won't "cheat", "take your money" and you wont accomplish that by joining a movement so you can cry along with other losers but instead behave like a man.

 

[Danoff]

 

[nostradavor2]

@Danoff
Do you refer to my post? It's just how I see things. What is your opinion? Your opinion is attaching a picture?

Do men really need to be involved in movements to have comfort zone, or to have what counter movements to feminism etc? Why?

Since always women needed dominant guy, dominant in every aspect of life.. If you do that you don't need movement. If you can't be like that you don't get women because it's part of natural selection

 

[Danoff]

Since always women needed dominant guy, dominant in every aspect of life..

Maybe some women, but "women" no. "Women" in general? No.

If you do that you don't need movement.

You mean if you are a misogynist you don't need an anti-feminism movement? No that's exactly why feminism, an then anti-feminism exists.

If you can't be like that you don't get women

"Get" women? You mean... obtain women? You can't "get" people. Unless you mean "understand", in which case this is still terribly misguided but differently so.

because it's part of natural selection

At anything even remotely resembling human intelligence, for the most part natural selection actually weeds out the behavior you're talking about, but it doesn't eliminate it entirely, because a small percentage of people acting like d-bags in the way you suggest is actually stable among a genetic population. D-bag males and females weed themselves out of the gene pool if they overpopulate in a given species. The "alpha male" concept actually doesn't do all that well genetically, because there is more to procreation than just copulation. Young have to be successfully raised to the point where they themselves can procreate. Reciprocity is highly selected for among species, and there is a strong incentive for females to "commit" men to assisting with raising young among huge swaths of intelligent species. It snowballs too as it gets selected for because it gets selected for. Putting it bluntly, in nature, an alpha male that simply tries to impregnate as many females as possible ends up with dead offspring (and because biology, I know there are counter-example species. Humans aren't one of them).

Basically you should read up on natural selection. My suggestion is Richard Dawkins's The Selfish Gene, which I recommend all over the place and can't recommend to you highly enough.

 

[VBR]

The last video is extremely off-putting.

Agreed. Had a long search & found a better explanation of MGTOW. OP updated.


👍

 

[nostradavor2]

Dominant male doesn't have to be someone who wants to make child to as many women as he can.
You just need to be consistent in dominance (masculinity) in a relationship because otherwise she's going to get bored and find someone who is more dominant than you are and is going to cheat on you because you think you can relax (and be mentally soft) and stop playing games because you are in good relationship. Than there's women who chose guys who are safe options, but they are never really attracted to them, they are trying to find positive sides in them to convince themselves that it's proper choice because it's nice guy with solid money etc.. But than again if someone who is dominant in social group shows slight interes in her, she'll take her in bed no problem. Than the same nice guy who saw "whole world" in this one women gets crushed and becomes MGTOW or whatever.

Go watcg videos of mgtow people, red pill (well some have financial benefit from doing that so aren't fitting in my description) or even worse incel and than you see approximately what kind of men are supporting this. Not to mention most of idiots who call themselves Incel idolize guy named Roger Eliot who wanted to kill all hot girls and couples because he couldn't get one or more of those girls.

If you look at him, if he was dominant he could actually get girls but instead he decided he's crybaby and chose easy way out.

If you feel in danger because of movements like feminism, antifa or other ridiculous related far left movements than you are on wrong anyways... Look at channel of Canadian (serbian) dude Squatting Slav when he does videos on this kind of topics and shows ridiculousness of those movements (just an example).

Edit : started watching 3rd video.. Guy is false how mgtow started, its opposite.. But that isn't really important.. You need a movement to tell you to focus on self preservation and to focus on your stuff ij life like health and money.. Wow.. No one would discover that without mgtow

 

[Danoff]

Agreed. Had a long search & found a better explanation of MGTOW. OP updated.


👍

Yea that video is more understandable. This is all part of the social/cultural awakening that has been happening in modern times. Some people a realizing that they don't need to chase relationships, that this is something that was foisted on them. Good for them.

Dominant male doesn't have to be someone who wants to make child to as many women as he can.

I'm speaking from a natural selection perspective, which is (I thought) what you were arguing.

You just need to be consistent in dominance (masculinity) in a relationship because otherwise she's going to get bored and find someone who is more dominant than you are and is going to cheat on you because you think you can relax (and be mentally soft) and stop playing games because you are in good relationship.

Don't ever become a relationship counselor. I cannot think of a deeper hell than trying to play games out of fear like you propose.

Than there's women who chose guys who are safe options, but they are never really attracted to them, they are trying to find positive sides in them to convince themselves that it's proper choice because it's nice guy with solid money etc.. But than again if someone who is dominant in social group shows slight interes in her, she'll take her in bed no problem.

This is a total riot I have to say. You're coming across so profoundly insecure, and with such a deep distrust and low opinion of women.

Than the same nice guy who saw "whole world" in this one women gets crushed and becomes MGTOW or whatever.

I like how you think that your personality is something you can just change. Like you can just go "be" a different type of person. Like you can be a "nice guy" and then decide to be "dominant" (or whatever you want to call being a d-bag), or decide to be not interested in a relationship. You seem to think everyone is a complete phony.

If you look at him, if he was dominant he could actually get girls but instead he decided he's crybaby and chose easy way out.

Uh... again, people are not something you "get".

I'm so following this thread from here on. This is gold.

 

[nostradavor2]

@Danoff
I think the big difference is that I have real life experiences and you read a lot (I guess). When I was around 24-5 I said to one girl (friend) which was kind of famous person with marriage behind her and child that I can't wait to be able to stop playing games with my gf from that time (and it was serious relationship, we lived together ) and she started laughing so hard and said that I forget about getting more comfortable in short or long term relationship. Which at the end couldn't be more true. That experience thought me how to speak to girls who had guys or husbands and I had pattern that worked for any of them if I wanted something. She just need to have you somewhere in her head because when her non dominant bf or husband becomes boring or stop showing much attention to her she WILL call you and will call you for more than jusy to hang out. Thid is from real life and not book. Than again if mgtow is what the dude in 3rd video is saying about taking more time for yourselve and not to chase women(girl is truly yours when she chase you) than hes just saying stuff that I thought everyone already knew.
I agree with you that not everyone can be dominant.. What can I say.. Bad luck.. I just use expression to get somene.. I don't know what bothers you so much about it.. You don't understand what I mean by that?
Also social media is giving big ego boost to girls because even below average looking girls have "army" of pathetic followers who compliment everything about them so they maybe someday get some attention from that girl (they won't).. So that kind of people need their movements.

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff
I think the big difference is that I have real life experiences and you read a lot (I guess). When I was around 24-5 I said to one girl (friend) which was kind of famous person with marriage behind her and child that I can't wait to be able to stop playing games with my gf from that time (and it was serious relationship, we lived together ) and she started laughing so hard and said that I forget about getting more comfortable in short or long term relationship. Which at the end couldn't be more true.

You must be absolutely miserable. It would be torture to constantly hold up a d-bag pretense. Like never really living.

That experience thought me how to speak to girls who had guys or husbands and I had pattern that worked for any of them if I wanted something.

I must admit, you at least play the part consistently. How did you come to this goal - that tricking women into sleeping with you is somehow what gives your life meaning? Do you have a number you're trying to reach?

I agree with you that not everyone can be dominant.. What can I say.. Bad luck..

You were the one saying you were pretending. So you mean bad luck... for you?

 

[nostradavor2]

@Danoff
I see you are smart guy and much better with words than I am, but still. First of all, honestly, Im not pretending, I was always kind of more dominant than other guys, even among only guys social group (women also dig that).
If I learned that women can't stand when their boyfriend or husband "relax in the relationship is not pretending, it's implementing something I've learned and am using it. Also at the beginning, I don't agree with how you think natural selection works because alfa male can settle. Im not talking about myself, im talking about one guy who slept with at least 300 women in his life and now has most stable marriage Ive ever seen and would never cheat. Since you already talk numbers, Im not into that, I stopped messing with taken women because of selfish reasons (i felt bad few times when I met their husbands), also to be honest Id rather have one soul mate for the rest of my life than any number of girls just for sex.. But at the same time I understand that I don't live in Disney movie and it's not very likely to happen. And I'm not insecure, just realistic.

 

[W3H5]

It's OK to be a man.

 

[Pupik]

This isn't just going to be a train wreck, but a whole bunch of...

You can't make a load of excuses about everyone or groups of people. Maybe tiny groups, but anything that tiny can ignored if you're an adult or mature enough to look away.

Dowhatchalike, Compromise, Respect, Entropy: Yeah, you're not going to learn it all at once, and there's no
one quick place to find it, but it makes all relationships (work, play, love, [whatever floats thy boats]).

(Dowhatchalike) you do what you like, Nobody is going to love everything you do and you're not going to like everything about them, but you work it out. (Compromise) No kidding. Nobody just wants a cheese pizza but you sure don't want all 40 toppings at the same time. Talk about it like adults - or children, if that's your thing - and set some expectations. (Respect) Everyone else is doing it too - nobody signed up to play this game but the graphics are intense and nobody really wants to stop playing. Also, some people have cheat codes but they fear you might have them too. (Entropy) is because we always feel like we're putting more into any relationship than what we get out of it. But since it effects everyone, stop complaining about it and get over it.

It's easy to give up and keep making your enemies your fuel and get constantly distracted by that. You honor the ones that will work with you on that, and you don't need this petty BS tag. Don't want relationships, fine! A ton of famous people gave up on those things and changed the world. I get it, but it isn't for everyone.

I think a whole bunch of this is driven by folks who are too afraid to have to compete with women in the workplace, at play, and in relationships, or that they feel their needs are co-opted by a society that doesn't always respect every trait you'd like to show off, but are also fearful of reprisal for bringing up these points in an honest manner. And the problem is that it takes time to be a man, a father, and the instantaneous approval process for every one of your actions isn't the way life works. Many actions, deeds, feelings of being a man (or a woman) lie in that clichéd iceberg and you have to keep them there most of the time. The internet - especially the lens of social media - also tends to magnify the petty, shallow, and greedy tendencies of humans. But it also gathers folks together, though very loosely. Sometimes you'll pick up a trick or two next time you find yourself out on the stage.

If one thinks everyone else is shallow, maybe it's because one is also swimming in the shallow end of things. Picking up plastic people? Take a look in the mirror and see if you're made of the same stuff you despise. The adults and mature ones swim in the deep end, and they check themselves before wrecking thyself.

[ insert additional clichés ]

Note: I didn't click the links - they don't need my "view" because that's what they want, and it's the sole arbiter of their influence.

 

[TexRex]

 

[SestoScudo]

Basically incels and mgtow in a nutshell lmaooooo

 

[TexRex]

I knew I recognized the channel icon on that first video thumbnail...



[Edit] This is fun:

 

[ScottPuss20]

Yeah I don't get this thread either

 

[W3H5]

Basically incels and mgtow in a nutshell lmaooooo

I’m an incel, and nothing in this thread describes me.

 

[nostradavor2]

I’m an incel, and nothing in this thread describes me.

Does that mean that if you go out at bars at night, or during the day on beach or something that you can't pick up a women? I don't really buy that... How is that possible?

 

[W3H5]

Does that mean that if you go out at bars at night, or during the day on beach or something that you can't pick up a women? I don't really buy that... How is that possible?

Well, I’m married but my wife and I are separated and I haven’t dated anyone regularly yet because it wouldn’t feel right to me. I’m sure I could nab a few lovelies at a bar if I put in the effort but I’d feel disloyal, and I’d rather make that effort attempting to rebuild my marriage.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well, I’m married but my wife and I are separated and I haven’t dated anyone regularly yet because it wouldn’t feel right to me. I’m sure I could nab a few lovelies at a bar if I put in the effort but I’d feel disloyal, and I’d rather make that effort attempting to rebuild my marriage.

Then surely by definition you're not an incel? Your actions are voluntary, not the result of a societally enforced lack of sexual opportunity?

 

[Pupik]

7. I'm going to cry like a baby when each of my social media platforms changes its monetization strategy

James Bond movies are proof that recycling works!

 

[nostradavor2]

Well, I’m married but my wife and I are separated and I haven’t dated anyone regularly yet because it wouldn’t feel right to me. I’m sure I could nab a few lovelies at a bar if I put in the effort but I’d feel disloyal, and I’d rather make that effort attempting to rebuild my marriage.

I understand, but from what I've read on incel you are not one. Incel = involuntary celibacy or something like that. Also they have ridiculous stand points (excuses) why women are rejecting them so they find easiest solution and just cry about it and say brutal things about women. It's "complete mystery" why women doesn't want to be around man like that. All of this movements (and not just this one listed) are blaming someone else for their own incompetence and lack of confidence.

Edit: My personal advice, don't take it as an offense... Go for another women if you want to. Chances are 100% that your wife doesn't feel what you feel and she probably doesn't feel guilty about seeing another men. So even if you somehow manage to convince her to get back or whatever it wont do you any good.

 

[Moglet]

I knew I recognized the channel icon on that first video thumbnail...



[Edit] This is fun:

Why does he say "Grace Jones looking" as if it's a bad thing? She was a model

 

[W3H5]

Then surely by definition you're not an incel? Your actions are voluntary, not the result of a societally enforced lack of sexual opportunity?

I suppose not, although I am involuntarily celibate in my current (non existent) relationship, but could probably mend that issue if I opted to be adulterous.

 

[TB]

Go for another women if you want to. Chances are 100% that your wife doesn't feel what you feel and she probably doesn't feel guilty about seeing another men.

Wow.

Our moral values aren't even in the same galaxy.

 

[nostradavor2]

Wow.

Our moral values aren't even in the same galaxy.

You mean yours and mine? Maybe so. But so what? Is it bad thing that we have different moral values?

It is just my opinion. I would never consider letting someone who went away into my life again, let alone chasing that woman.

Woman that wants to be with you doesnt need to be chased. Also woman who is not here is probably "dating" other men.

To be clear, Im not talking about this particular situation as I don't know details and don't want to hurt anyone.

 

[Danoff]

First of all, honestly, Im not pretending,

You did say this did you not?

You just need to be consistent in dominance (masculinity) in a relationship because otherwise she's going to get bored and find someone who is more dominant than you are and is going to cheat on you because you think you can relax (and be mentally soft) and stop playing games because you are in good relationship.

Your dominance is a game that you're playing in order to supposedly prevent her from running off because you relax and are "mentally soft" when you're not "playing games". That's pretending.

I was always kind of more dominant than other guys, even among only guys social group (women also dig that).

Some women dig that. Some. And it's not natural selection, it's psychology. I explained how misguided you are on natural selection.

If I learned that women can't stand when their boyfriend or husband "relax in the relationship is not pretending, it's implementing something I've learned and am using it.

No, it's pretending when you refuse to "relax" and "stop playing games" because you think she won't like the real you. That's pretending. Or if I want to be a little more incendiary here... how about posing... or tricking... or being a fraud?

Also at the beginning, I don't agree with how you think natural selection works because alfa male can settle.

Take a step back and listen to yourself. Really listen. What you're trying to argue now is that the alpha male successfully procreates when he's not acting like an alpha male. Stew on it for just a moment.

Id rather have one soul mate for the rest of my life than any number of girls just for sex.. But at the same time I understand that I don't live in Disney movie and it's not very likely to happen. And I'm not insecure, just realistic.

You'll never have a soul mate if you cannot stop pretending. I don't mean that you cannot be married for the rest of your life. I mean "soul mate". The only way to actually connect with other human beings (in a relationship, not in a relationship, doesn't matter), is to actually be honest.

And I'm going to hit this last point one more time because I keep seeing it. One does not "get" women. Sleeping with a woman is not "getting" her any more than sleeping with a man is "getting" him. You cannot "obtain" a person except perhaps via slavery. Sex is just sex, it is not conquest. It is not ownership. It is not even the tip of the iceberg of what human beings have to offer each other. And to whoever doesn't understand this, I feel very bad for them. It is an enormous part of life.

 

[nostradavor2]

I'm just not that interested in this topic to answer to this whole post @Danoff.. It's also difficult to take you seriously with this gif/picture things.

You may think you know a lot, and it sounds good on paper. I'll say just one thing - Honesty and showing your weakness to woman is KEY to lose her interest in you. Feel free to continue with self deception of thinking how woman will stick around emotional, weak man.

I have nothing else to say in this thread, I know most of you will be delighted by it. Have a nice day.