The New Direction of Gran Turismo

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by AJFast12, Jul 8, 2017.

?

Do you like the new change in the GT Franchise?

  1. Yes, I welcome change to the GT Franchise

    47.4%
  2. No, They should keep the ongoing formula.

    34.9%
  3. It doesnt really matter, i only play to race.

    17.7%
  1. Lord Kacperov

    Lord Kacperov (Banned)

    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    Belgium
    But it isn't big either, especially when they're not outsourcing. But it isn't as tiny as Kunos though.
     
  2. JulesDennis

    JulesDennis

    Messages:
    1,245
    Actually for a studio that does one project and has over 200 people its a big studio.Add to the fact that they are part of SIE -Sony Interactive Entertaiment Worldwide Studios-.
    The truth is that PD is a big studio/developer.T10 being bigger does not make them "small".And either way,how big they are has nothing to do with your point about a small car list.
     
    Quakebass, Imari, glassjaw and 5 others like this.
  3. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

    Messages:
    15,369
    Location:
    Egypt
    Why isn't it big? 200 is on the higher end of the spectrum.
     
    Imari and Johnnypenso like this.
  4. fikridroid

    fikridroid

    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Was Kaz said that PDI is considering outsourcing to help model the cars?
    Tbh I think that GTS has the strong resemblance to GT3 in terms of content amounts, and how it supposed to be the first mainline GT title after the generation jump.
    If PDI played their cards right, they should've replicated the success that GT3 had, although the lack of proper offline career mode and car customization in GTS might make it somewhat harder to achieve IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    Lord Kacperov and Johnnypenso like this.
  5. CodeCmdr

    CodeCmdr

    Messages:
    306
    Location:
    Austria
    Slightly Mad Studios is currently 160 people large, and their upcoming product Project Cars 2 will contain 170+ cars and 60+ tracks (with lots of different layouts). I suppose those figures are somewhat similar to those of Polyphony Digital and Gran Turismo Sport, but when I consider the fact that SMS will have had merely 2.5 years for developing Project Cars 2, compared to the nearly 4 years PD will have had for GTS, then I have to ask: why do they take so long?

    But back to the topic: racing other humans is WAY more fun than racing AI, so the focus on online racing is a smart move by PD. I just hope the feedback they got from beta will allow them to really nail the matchmaking and safety rating algorithms by release.
     
  6. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,424
    Location:
    Canada
    SMS also has more than one project on the go.
     
  7. danh25

    danh25

    Messages:
    406
    It does not center anything because PC2 is the evolution of PC1 and certainly with PC2 they did not rewrite the things from scratch but added they improved what they had already created with PC1, so let's talk about 6/7 years to have PC2.
    PD has all rebuild from ZERO and in reasonable times since we are talking about 4 years rebuild with tracks and self-reworked cars.
     
    emula likes this.
  8. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

    Messages:
    27,345
    Location:
    Canada
    Playing the numbers game isn't strictly accurate: a lot of those 189 cars and 40+ tracks are carry overs from the last game. From my understanding, some of the tracks have been reworked, but I don't believe the cars have. The impressive advancements with that game are the other features: LiveTrack 3.0, plenty of online/offline race customization, seasons, etc.

    Speaking of carry overs...

    Allegedly rebuilt from the ground up. It seems odd that a car like the base model 2009 Lotus Evora would be selected to dedicate another six man-months to.

    FM5 was also released with the "built-from-the-ground-up" claim, but people found some of the same errors that had persisted with a handful of the 360-era cars. And that was a game with just over 200 cars, which launched almost four years ago.

    Still waiting for any hint of this "light years" difference, by the way.
     
    raul791, Imari, Johnnypenso and 3 others like this.
  9. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,243
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    PD may have built the car and track asserts from scratch, but I'm not convinced that we have an entirely ground up re-write of every line of code.

    You also seem to forget that SMS will have managed two titles, across three platforms, with a smaller team, a significantly smaller budget and without the clear advantage of being a first party study with a studio head on the Sony board.

    So yes they are slow.
     
    Quakebass, raul791, Imari and 7 others like this.
  10. Greek

    Greek (Banned)

    Messages:
    93
    GTS is a high-fidelity driving simulator. All of us, here, want high-fidelity driving simulators.

    They can. Will they do that? That is the question. The things that help DS controller users, must be disabled when a direct drive force feedback steering wheel controller is connected to the system. We do not want the "hand of god". Slap that hand.
     
  11. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

    Messages:
    15,369
    Location:
    Egypt
    The one thing where I can honestly say PD are slow is/are the tracks. Baffling that a lot of the then new tracks in GT6 aren't going to make it. No idea how they intended to release last year, all the tracks looked atrocious.
     
    Quakebass, PzR Slim and Lord Kacperov like this.
  12. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,243
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What does that even mean?

    As if you are inferring that GTS simulates reality with a high degree of fidelity, it doesn't.
     
    Donnced, Imari and super_gt like this.
  13. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,978
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    I have never met a Direct Drive wheel which is officially licensed for PS4,and why only for DD wheels.
     
  14. NixxxoN

    NixxxoN (Banned)

    Messages:
    2,712
    Location:
    Spain
    And which ones does? [insert your favorite game here]
     
  15. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,243
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    To a higher degree that GTS?

    PCars, AC, SLRE, Dirt Rally and Dirt 4 on the PS4.

    Nothing to do with being a favorite, it got to do with the accuracy of the physics engine.
     
  16. I think you are both right, they are not the same quality. Pcars, Driveclub, AC, Forza, all have modelled interior. Iirc not all cars in GTS will? So thanks for pointing out the inferior quality of GT models out to me.

    Even without that, they certainly are not light years ahead of anyone. GT5 premium vs standard, that's light years ( well actually a few years ahead ). In any case, their tracks certs are not light years ahead,so what's the reason for being slow there? I recon the answer is = because they are a slow dev, period. Unless you want to pretend GT5 didn't take forever to release either?


    I will just prove they're slow instead, December 2017 = PS4's 4th birthday. October 2017 = GTS birth date ( if not delayed ).

    This was a foregone conclusion up to GT5, it's anyone's guess now. Maybe a good marketing campaign focused on flashy graphics will bring the numbers in, but I'm not sure how strong the GT name is right now.
    Not small by any stretch,
    Of course, Pcars1 was magically pulled out of a hat? They didn't start from scratch? SMS will have had 2 games released on multiplatform before PDI release one game on one platform, and this with having knowledge of the PS4 well before any other dev. The attempts at straw clutching in this thread is getting silly.

    Oh, I'm sure Greek is about to "educate" us all. Again.
     
    raul791 and Johnnypenso like this.
  17. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,424
    Location:
    Canada
    Outside of graphics including lighting and shaders which I would readily concede are genre leading, which parts of GTS are considered high fidelity? What is your definition of high fidelity?
     
  18. danh25

    danh25

    Messages:
    406

    Forza is renowned in recycling material from previous games, I'm not surprised by this.
    Relying on GTsport's recycling if you take the same car in both GT6 and GTsport, see what's the difference; Long ago I had seen a comparison of GT6 VS GTsport's mazda vision and it was noticed how modeling was much more accurate in detail and above all in the larger number of polygons besides much superior texure (discounted this improvement).
    Then you're forgetting that ps3 engines, with its exotic architecture, are incompatible with new hardware; ND to run tlou on ps4, they had to work for 6 months to do a mere porting, with elevated resolution, on ps4 and we talk about ND.

    Regarding the question of the other time, I will not post anything because there is already a whole discussion of almost 40 pages that shows, without problems, what I say;)

    Rather you should show me the opposite :)


    SMS managed PC1 with greater optimization on PC but on PS4 and X1 (which have a similar hardware) their game has atrocious performance and PC2 will not always be different in this regard on PS4 and X1.
    And yet, GTsport is the best racing technically and grafically 60 fps there is, and is definitely superior to PC; the big budget is also seen in these things.
     
  19. doblocruiser

    doblocruiser

    Messages:
    5,609
    Location:
    France
    The Ferrari red maybe :p
     
    Johnnypenso likes this.
  20. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,424
    Location:
    Canada
    :lol: How could I forget about all of those nits:banghead:?
     
    doblocruiser likes this.
  21. NixxxoN

    NixxxoN (Banned)

    Messages:
    2,712
    Location:
    Spain
    Any proof?
     
  22. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

    Messages:
    27,345
    Location:
    Canada
    You make this comment without a hint of irony with regards to the game that recycled hundreds of PS2-era assets without even touching them up? :lol:

    That's not what your original claim was: you said GT Sport was "light years" ahead of the competition. Not GT6.

    3D models are system-agnostic.

    No, that's not how this works. You made the claim: you provide the proof. It's a simple concept, and I'm not sure why you think ignoring a moderator request is acceptable.

    If it's that easy to find proof, you wouldn't be wriggling out of posting a simple comparison to prove this "light years" claim.

    Can I borrow the time machine when you're done with it?

    We have no idea how either game will perform in retail form. PCARS1 certainly had a bunch of issues on console (more so on XB1), but the time I spent with it hands-on at E3 last month did not show any major framerate/graphic issues. Mercifully, the game seems much better optimized on consoles this go-round — we played on PC and XB1, with little between the two.

    GT Sport doesn't hit a locked 60fps on either PS4 or PS4 Pro (yet).
     
    raul791 and Imari like this.
  23. danh25

    danh25

    Messages:
    406

    I have written clearly, if you do not want to read and argue for good what I wrote, do nothing ;)
    After reading this post (similar to others) I'm realizing that it does not need to argue anything because it only counts its own opinion by ignoring what a person writes
    you could consider changing the name of the in Flamesport section

    Greetings....
     
  24. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,243
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    PC1's performance on PS4 and XB1 were not similar despite the hardware, and while issues were present at launch they have (on PS4) been pretty much all patched out.

    If however you consider the performance of PC1 on PS4 to be atrocious then I hate to think what you thought of GT5 and GT6!

    YOU also seem to be forgetting that GTS is recycling content, its just doing it within GTS itself, or do you think that every car in the car list was started from scratch? Highly unlikely when around half of them are simply racing variations on the base car, if you take that into account GTS has around 60 base car models in it. Now I've not done a count, but while past GT's have been bad for this, it does seem at first glance to be the worst offender so far.

    Citation required.

    In terms of graphics I would agree, but not by the margin you have previously claimed, nor does it hit a locked 60fps not even on a PS4 Pro. However if the vague term 'best racing technically' is meant to refer to the physics engine, then no its not; if its meant to refer to the force feedback, then no its not; if its meant to refer to the track surface detail, then now its not and if its meant to be how well it recreates the rules and feel of a race weekend, then no its not.

    What would you accept as proof?

    Now the areas that GTS has issues with in regard to physics and the level of detail of the areas it falls behind the named title on would be (these will either apply in part or in full depending on the title):

    • Accuracy of track surface detailing
    • Accuracy of tyre heat cycles and its relationship to wear
    • Accuracy of force feedback
    • Accuracy of load transfer and it affect on the yaw rate of a car (around the z axis for the car and for the tyres)
    • Degree of set-up and tuning options available and how they affect the vehicles
    That's off the top of my head and I discuss them, along with examples in a number of videos on my youtube channel (link in sig).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    raul791 likes this.
  25. Greek

    Greek (Banned)

    Messages:
    93
    Sébastien Loeb Rally Evo? It is a Milestone product. The Dirt series was always arcade.

    Everything that is simulated in GTS is simulated with high fidelity. That does not mean that it is perfect. Assetto Corsa is not perfect either. Project CARS 2 will not be perfect either.

    About fidelity:
    https://www.sisostds.org/DesktopMod...e_Download&EntryId=32793&PortalId=0&TabId=105

    Because direct drive ones are superior.




    Maybe later on they will sell a direct drive one that is officially supported.
     
  26. NixxxoN

    NixxxoN (Banned)

    Messages:
    2,712
    Location:
    Spain
    Proof would be doing an in-depth analysis and an in-depth comparison of all those games and real life included... not just saying so because you think its that way
     
  27. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,243
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It is, and what of it?

    Have you tried it, do you know how well its functions as a simulator?

    Oh dear.

    Yes it was, Dirt Rally (and to a lesser degree Dirt 4) made quite a big change in that regard.


    No its not.

    Can I turn each of the four corners of the car independently? Can I adjust every aspect of the car in the manner I would be able to do so in reality? Can I even adjust the tyre pressure?

    Now the last one of those isn't even close to being at the higher end of fidelity, its a basic function that can be carried out on any car.

    I've not said anything close, what I have said is that to one degree or another all of those listed operate at a higher level of fidelity than GTS does.

    Well that's remarkably easy then.

    Does GTS allow you to adjust tyre pressure?
    No. PCars and AC do, so that's a lower level of fidelity for GTS then.

    Does GTS allow you to tune each corner independently?
    No. PCars and AC do, so that's a lower level of fidelity for GTS then.

    Does GTS correctly replicate the loss of self aligning torque at the onset of understeer?
    No it produces a judder through the force feedback instead. All of the listed do, so that's a lower level of fidelity for GTS then.

    I can keep going if you like? None of these require an in-depth analysis or comparison to show that GTS is operating at a lower level of fidelity, and none of these are particularly in-depth, for a track based racing title they are basic.

    Really you should know well enough that I don't do 'just saying so'.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    raul791, Imari, doblocruiser and 4 others like this.
  28. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

    Messages:
    38,323
    Location:
    United States
    FM7 is managing 700 cars because it's going to reuse assets they created for previous games over the years (as evident by Xbox 360 models still used in FM6 & FH3).

    The same way GT4 also managed 700 cars, GT5 1000+ cars, & GT6 1200+ cars, by using old assets....

    Outsourcing & in-house has nothing to do with such high car counts by this stage except for GT Sport which apparently decided to reboot the car modeling team.
     
  29. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,978
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    The wheel is recognized as G29 which means that the driving assistants for DS4 users will not be disabled,despite that you're connecting DD wheel.Also why not this assistants for DS4 to be disabled for other wheels?I have T150 and I drive with all AIDS and ABS OFF in the PC simulation games,but I am not good enough to drive without AIDS in GT Sport which physics is easy to drive from 7 to 77?!
    Very unlikely,at least for PS4.
     
    Johnnypenso likes this.
  30. NixxxoN

    NixxxoN (Banned)

    Messages:
    2,712
    Location:
    Spain
    So basically some more setup settings, thats it? So having fixed settings means it has lower fidelity? Your own everyday car has low fidelity to real life if you dont change settings?
    One thing is doing those things, and the other doing those things well. How you know those games do all that well?
    Only focus on what GT dont has, but doesnt have anything over the others?
    No, I haven't got access to the beta yet, sadly, thats why I'm questioning all that.