The New Toyota Corolla Hatchback is the Latest #SaveTheManual Ambassador

[Danoff]

I know it's personal, because that's the whole point. What you guys can't seem to understand is that it's not ONLY for the sake of Fahrvergnügen. As far as I'm concerned, the unique benefits of a manual are practical reasons to drive one -- including strategies for winter driving, bump-starting in a pinch, and its exaggerated-but-real anti-theft value, just to name a few. So to say there's "no practical reason for anyone to drive a manual" is false. I'm someone. I have practical reasons. I'm well aware they don't matter much to others, but they're my reasons.

I freely acknowledge the quantifiable advantages of an automatic, but they do not outweigh my reasons to drive a manual. Much like how extra cargo room may be important enough to call for a larger vehicle that is also not as smooth, quick, or fuel efficient as a smaller car. The point of the transaction analogy is that an automatic/DCT/CVT does not offer me enough value in return for giving up the unique benefits of a manual, plus the Fahrvergnügen factor. By my estimation, a manual is better. Not better for you, or @Danoff, or @Joey D, or whoever else. Just better for me.

Can you bump-start a modern manual? I used to do it all the time in my ancient one.

I'm not entirely sure that your practical reasons for choosing a manual are the ones I'd pick, but I freely acknowledge that they exist. Winter driving perhaps is one I'd pick. Engine braking saves on brake pads, and a properly driven manual transmission can outlast an automatic. They're also just significantly better in a breakdown situation. If your brakes fail for example, or your accelerator gets stuck by an aftermarket floormat (this has happened to me), or you're having trouble idling.

The thing is, I can make all of those arguments about my old VW beetle too. That lack of an engine block meant no radiator fluid flushes. No concerns about exploding expansion tanks or radiator leaks. The lack of a 5th gear meant nothing could go wrong with 5th gear. The lack of a tac meant it couldn't break. The lack of auto-retracting seat belts meant that they can't do that thing where they don't retract quite right and you have to kinda feed it into the mechanism... which does not look smooth.

CD player can't break if you don't have one. Power steering can't leak if you don't have it. The bumper on that car could be just replaced. Like... by me! AC problems never existed.

I think you know where that one's headed.

What you're not really acknowledging is the benefits of an automatic. After driving my beat up stiff as hell clutch for a day, my left knee was killing me. It woke me up in the middle of the night. I can drive an automatic if I have a busted foot. I can drive an automatic if I have a busted hand. I can drive an automatic and still do something with my other hand. Like hold a drink for a few seconds. I can loan my automatic out to a friend and not worry about the state of it when I get it back. It's nicer. It's not more fun, it's nicer. Would you want a stick shift in a Rolls? If you answer yes to that, you're crazy. If you answer no, you get what I mean when I say that it's nicer.

You know what I can't do in an automatic? Grenade my engine by accidentally catching 2nd on a downshift.

 

[05XR8]

I liked having my car sit in it's space, because noone could drive my manual car. Certain family and friends, didn't bother to ask.

 

[Wolfe]

I'm not entirely sure that your practical reasons for choosing a manual are the ones I'd pick, but I freely acknowledge that they exist. Winter driving perhaps is one I'd pick. Engine braking saves on brake pads, and a properly driven manual transmission can outlast an automatic. They're also just significantly better in a breakdown situation. If your brakes fail for example, or your accelerator gets stuck by an aftermarket floormat (this has happened to me), or you're having trouble idling.

Finally, you're starting to get me.

The thing is, I can make all of those arguments about my old VW beetle too. That lack of an engine block meant no radiator fluid flushes. No concerns about exploding expansion tanks or radiator leaks. The lack of a 5th gear meant nothing could go wrong with 5th gear. The lack of a tac meant it couldn't break. The lack of auto-retracting seat belts meant that they can't do that thing where they don't retract quite right and you have to kinda feed it into the mechanism... which does not look smooth.

CD player can't break if you don't have one. Power steering can't leak if you don't have it. The bumper on that car could be just replaced. Like... by me! AC problems never existed.

I think you know where that one's headed.

This kind of faulty presumption is why I came up with the transaction idea to explain how I tend to assess things. Worthwhile innovations are a thing. Not all innovations are worthwhile. I adopt new technologies. I just don't welcome them all. Whoa, complicated concept.

It's why I'm happy with my new car's trip computer but I'm glad it has a pocket in place of the optional navigation screen I wouldn't care to use. It's why I still use a flip phone but I bought a Nintendo Switch. Again, I'm happy to have MP3s instead of dealing with CDs, but for videogames I prefer to buy physical instead of digital. I have reasons for accepting some things and not others.

What you're not really acknowledging is the benefits of an automatic. After driving my beat up stiff as hell clutch for a day, my left knee was killing me. It woke me up in the middle of the night. I can drive an automatic if I have a busted foot. I can drive an automatic if I have a busted hand. I can drive an automatic and still do something with my other hand. Like hold a drink for a few seconds. I can loan my automatic out to a friend and not worry about the state of it when I get it back. It's nicer. It's not more fun, it's nicer. Would you want a stick shift in a Rolls? If you answer yes to that, you're crazy. If you answer no, you get what I mean when I say that it's nicer.

I acknowledge that an automatic comes in handy for certain situations too. In my life, such a situation has proven much less likely than the opportunities to exploit advantages of driving a manual (not to mention enjoying it every day).

If that wasn't the case, or if manuals had proven to be more trouble than I expected, I could reconsider if the "transaction" of an automatic over a manual is worth it after all. Or if I happened to be looking for a 4x4 for serious offroading, it would be a different transaction -- an automatic is more appealing for offroading than street driving. In that case, the convenience of a torque converter is a more compelling factor.

The terms of the transaction aren't immutable. Whoa, how irrational.

You know what I can't do in an automatic? Grenade my engine by accidentally catching 2nd on a downshift.

You know what the shifter in my previous Legacy was like? It wouldn't center to neutral from the left side and was way loose. All except for 5 and R was like a rod in a cup. It was easy to miss an upshift to 3rd or a downshift to 4th. I drove it like that for almost 100k miles without grenading the engine on a downshift. It was still enjoyable to shift gears. Worn out and a little notchy, but worth it.

 

[kikie]

Is a modern manual fly by wire or still operated through a cable?

 

[Danoff]

This kind of faulty presumption is why I came up with the transaction idea to explain how I tend to assess things. Worthwhile innovations are a thing. Not all innovations are worthwhile. I adopt new technologies. I just don't welcome them all. Whoa, complicated concept.

I understood.

It's why I'm happy with my new car's trip computer but I'm glad it has a pocket in place of the optional navigation screen I wouldn't care to use.

I'm totally with you on car nav, and I understand this point.

It's why I still use a flip phone

This is not your best example

I acknowledge that an automatic comes in handy for certain situations too. In my life, such a situation has proven much less likely than the opportunities to exploit advantages of driving a manual (not to mention enjoying it every day).

Ok, and I don't think that anyone is telling you that you should buy an automatic. I think that my biggest message for you is to help you understand why the manual is dying, and why that's ok and to be expected.

 

[Wolfe]

...I don't think that anyone is telling you that you should buy an automatic. I think that my biggest message for you is to help you understand why the manual is dying, and why that's ok and to be expected.

I was not under the impression that anyone was telling me I should buy an automatic. I've only been trying to convey my viewpoint in a way that you can understand for -- coincidentally -- close to exactly ten years to the date, if I found the right thread. I felt this was an opportunity to share the transaction analogy I came up with to help you to understand. That is my only angle here.

I understand why the manual is dying, in detail -- you think someone like me wouldn't pay attention to new developments and pressures? But I have no obligation to accept that it's okay. It's important to me, powerless as I am. I don't care that I am conceivably culpable because of the fact that I buy used cars. I've decided that's bull:censored:. Subaru gets our money for OEM parts, and you know my wallet-vote never could have stopped the tide. The inevitability is the point you're making now.

I don't resent anyone for it. People will buy what they want, and there are other variables involved (CAFE, for example). I know why people like automatics; it's self-evident. You do you. All I ask is for that sentiment and understanding in return, instead of condescension, mind-reading, or balking at my explanation for my preference.


EDIT: I guess by this point it's clear mutual respect is too much to ask for.

 

[05XR8]

Gauges look old and low class. They could have copied an older Lexus style, with the white back lights. Doesn't match the rest of a pretty nice looking dash and center console.

https://tmca-media.rotorint.com/proof/201807/corolla_pano/desktop/COR_PAN_140_comp_A15_review.mp4

 

[Samsonknight]

I want to experience a CVT. I don't know how it feels and drives.

In terms of a CVT, your not missing much. My wife has 2016 Corolla S and there is nothing sporty about that transmission. It's a numbers car, not an enthusiasts car.

Just to make sure that I understand right, this Corolla has a 6 speed manual transmission not CVT pretending to be a manual transmission, right? If it's an actual manual transmission, I'm really proud of Toyota. I'm always afraid of a day where manual transmissions will be part of the past.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Just to make sure that I understand right, this Corolla has a 6 speed manual transmission not CVT pretending to be a manual transmission, right? If it's an actual manual transmission, I'm really proud of Toyota. I'm always afraid of a day where manual transmissions will be part of the past.

That's correct. There's a CVT as an option, but a true manual does exist. We'll be spending a longer time with the car some time this month, so expect a more thorough first-hand report.

Also, a heads-up: no need to double post, you can use the Edit function on a previous post. 👍