The new wave of Japanese exotics.

[miata13B]

Well, the fact that it is the body that is showing it, I wanna see the engine first and make sure the VIN numbers match before I write this one off as a Type-R. Anyone and their mother can put flashy badges and body moldings on their cars to make them look like the "J-spec". But if everything matchs and is legit, then I'll believe this one.

See the picture is showing a carbon fiber hood and an exhaust. The fact that it has those components shows the person knows a something about aftermarket parts. The diagram in the link shows maybe what an engineer thought to do, but it doesn't mean it was rolled out. I can't read Japanesse, but I could get my buddy to translate it for me.

 

[-Fred-]

check the 5 lug wheels, too. The first one has 4 lugs, yes, because it's a 1996 spec.

another modded one...

The side "stickers" are actually painted on, on the real thing. Trust me, they're all real. Japanese people aren't lame enough to stick Type-R stickers on everything. They show tremendous respect for their cars.

Good luck finding a stock, usec performance car in Japan... they pretty much all went under the aftermarket knife, these guys are crazy down there.

 

[RB26DETT]

the evo's after VI isn't nearly as good as before b/c wrc loosend the rules. the new evo's are not like the wrc counterpart like the evo's before VII ie: chassis is crappier.

one of the integra type r is a 4 door
JDN integra look soo much nice imo

as a true japanese exotic -----> nsx
the wrx and evo has been out in japan for ages (relative)

AND no way the s2000 is the fastest in a straight line. i love it but very not likely. too high in the rev is the powerband and the torque

the RX is not likely to have a turbo for how the rotaries work and wouldn't pass emissions

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Originally posted by RB26DETT
the evo's after VI isn't nearly as good as before b/c wrc loosend the rules. the new evo's are not like the wrc counterpart like the evo's before VII ie: chassis is crappier.

The Lancer EVO7 WRC wasnt very good anyway. Too many mechanical problems.

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
I can assure that the SRT-4 is not going to hold up on the track. Its just not possible. Dodge may have made a FWD that accelerates in a straight line well. But FWD will never compare to RWD or even AWD as far as handling goes.

I hate it when people do this. Just because its an american car people always say that, "because it can go fast in a straight line means nothing". It can turn very well. Some of the engineers have been winning in the SCCA Pro Rally with it. How would you, me, or anyone else know that it wont hold its own on the track (if the drivers are of realatively same skill) without seeing it done? It goes the same with the other cars too. If its a Japanese car people say "Its engine is not powerful enough" or "It doesnt have enough liters". Then someone mentions a European car and I always hear, "They are just luxury cars that are too heavy". Then people will say, "This car is cheaper, so thats why it is better", how does price effect performance? If one dealer sells a car for 30K and the one down the street sells the same car for 25K, does that mean it has less performance? Then someone will always bring up that all cars from 'so and so' country all handle like this or that. All I hear is bull . I wish some people werent so one sided and hard headed. I love all cars and think that all countries are doing a great job and are very innovative with the cars they produce and it seems Im one of only a few people who see it that way. If you have no way of proving it, why bother at all.

BTW, Im not pointing this post just at you 12sec. Civic, so dont take it the wrong way ...

 

[Frustrated Palm]

BTW, Im doing a test in GT3 with all the cars mention in the poll (and their duplicates except for the Lancer and WRX)

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by Frustrated Palm
I hate it when people do this.

In all honesty have you driven the car? I have because I was planning on buying it. The car is fast, but turning it is a pain in my arse! I don't believe 12 sec was downing american cars here, just because it was about the Neon, does not mean he feels that way about all the american cars. I know of a ton of american cars that are fast on the track and street that can turn. I actually own one, but it is being getting a fully monty work.

 

[Frustrated Palm]

I wasnt pointing that post in any way toward him or toward just a particular car. Just overall about what people say about other countries cars and all the crap about it just annoys and disgusts me...

 

[12sec. Civic]

I was not reffering to the cars country of origin. I was just sayin that, IMO, there are about 10% of FWD cars that could stay with ANY FR car.

I mean, the basics of each style of car limit them to certain performance capabilities.


ALL FWD cars understeer. Its pretty much impossible for them to oversteer. and VERY few of them are neutral. Basically, in a FWD if you hit the gas in a turn it will start to plow atleast a little, in even the most sophisticated FWD's.


With an FR, the worst you can do is spin it, and if that doesnt happen, they are usually neutral or sometimes with a little oversteer. Either way, its pretty hard to be slower in an FR.


Since we're comparing the 350Z to the SRT-4, where the SRT-4 has NO advantages. It has way less Hp etc. means it wont hold a candle against the 350Z.


I havent driven either car, but I'll say this with relative confidence: An SRT-4 doesnt have a chance against the 350Z on a race track.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by Frustrated Palm
I heard (heard, so dont quote me on it) that they will be releasing a car under the Skyline nameplate. Plus we already have the G35 (I think). Maybe we should go over to the Nissan HQ with metal bats and torches . They might produce them again ...

Ha ha ha thats a great idea *searches room for bats and anything thats flamable* LETS GO..... anyway I could care less if the skyline made it to the states because It would be a de-tuned pile of crap not worthy of the skyline badge. (However it would still stomp on those Mustangs ). I would just stick with the R-34 Vspec-II. SPEAKING OF SKYLINES...I recently had the joy of experiencing one first hand. One of my friends is a tech for Nissan here in AZ and they had a Skyline over there so his boss let him bring it over! Needless to say after driving such a legendary vehicle I felt very.....how do I put this...BORED OUT OF MY MIND while driving my own car. As soon as I graduate pharmacy school and get my $25,000 sign on bonus I'm goin straight to Motorex to put a down payment on my dream car!!!!!

 

[HRT_Maloo]

Just out of interest, I might do a time trial between all these cars in Gran Turismo Concept since its more realistics than GT3.
It will have to be the Evo VII though

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
I was not reffering to the cars country of origin. I was just sayin that, IMO, there are about 10% of FWD cars that could stay with ANY FR car.

I mean, the basics of each style of car limit them to certain performance capabilities.


ALL FWD cars understeer. Its pretty much impossible for them to oversteer. and VERY few of them are neutral. Basically, in a FWD if you hit the gas in a turn it will start to plow atleast a little, in even the most sophisticated FWD's.


With an FR, the worst you can do is spin it, and if that doesnt happen, they are usually neutral or sometimes with a little oversteer. Either way, its pretty hard to be slower in an FR.


Since we're comparing the 350Z to the SRT-4, where the SRT-4 has NO advantages. It has way less Hp etc. means it wont hold a candle against the 350Z.


I havent driven either car, but I'll say this with relative confidence: An SRT-4 doesnt have a chance against the 350Z on a race track.

No no no! That's not what I meant. I was just saying that alot of people are too one sided when it comes to cars. I was just using your post as an example but didnt mean to say that you were doing it...

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Im doing a test of all the cars on the poll and the Camaro's (since they came up in this topic). Here is the list of the cars in the test:

Honda S2000 Type V
Honda S2000
Camaro Z28
Camaro SS
Nissan 350Z
Subaru WRX (new, sedan)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 7 GSR
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 7 RS
Mazda RX8
Mazda RX7

I will be testing them on three tracks.
-Midfield
-Deep Forest
-Cote D Azure (sp)
I will run 4 laps (but will exclude lap 1) and take the average of the three times for that car. Each car will be bought (or in terms of the RX8 and Z, won) and have 0 miles with no upgrades, not even rims, and no settings will be touched (ASM and TCS on). I will also do some specs tests, quarter mile and so on. If there are any that you think should be added (being that the car is in the other car's class) post it up . I would like someone else to test with me so we can compare our results ...

 

[HRT_Maloo]

I did some laps between these cars in GTC and the 350Z was the quickest (Im not looking at the actual times here) followed by the RX8 which was around .100 seconds slower. 2 seconds slower was the S2000 and the Evo VII was around .200 slower than the S2000 (I didnt like driving AWD after the 3 rwd) and when I got to the WRX STi, I didnt even do 1 lap. No comparo to the rwds round a track but it was around the Evos pace.

I did Atumn(sp) Ring BTW (tight track)
I have no idea if these times are realistic

 

[HRT_Maloo]

Im sure Frustrated Palm can be more accurate

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

I have a car test simulator that can run cars on real tracks throughout the world and can drag race em too. It uses the same reaction times and formulas for all cars so there are no human errors it's based only on stats so It can be accurate. ALL I NEED TO DO THIS IS DETAILS ON THE CARS YOU WANT ME TO TEST.

HERE IS WHAT I NEED TO KNOW TO DO THIS:
displacement (cc)
engine location (front,mid,rear)
Type (Normal,turbo,supercharged,sequential twin turbo)
HP@RPM
Torque@rpm
compresion ratio
redline
clutch (dump, slip, brake)
number of gears
auto or manual
gear ratios for all gears and final drive ratio
driving wheels (front, rear, all)
weight
% of weight on front wheels
wheelbase
tire width
wheel/rim diameter (15's 17's 18's etc)
coefficient of drag
height
width
ground clearance

as soon as I get that I can run the test.
sorry for the long post...

 

[Frustrated Palm]

But still, nothing compares to an actual real life test. Statistacally a Car might seem to do good, but in reality it could suck...

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

true but like I said it's all based on raw numbers.

 

[12sec. Civic]

Where did you get this program?

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

it's called car test and I got it of of kazaa its a DOS program. I know they have a new version out but i dont wanna pay fot it

 

[Josh]

Heh. I've got Car Test. It's soooo old, but pretty damn cool.

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Well last night I finished the Midfield tests. I will post the results in a bit...

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Test One: Open Track - Midfield
Cars run completely stock directly from the showroom (or won with the 350Z and RX8 ). ASM and TCS on. Average of 3 laps.

Honda S2000 Type V
Lap 1 - 1:27.099 \
Lap 2 - 1:27.339 = Average: 1:27.576
Lap 3 - 1:28.291 /

Honda S2000
Lap 1 - 1:29.137 \
Lap 2 - 1:27.762 = Average: 1:28.339
Lap 3 - 1:28.118 /

Cheverolet Camaro Z28
Lap 1 - 1:26.515 \
Lap 2 - 1:26.639 = Average: 1:26.498
Lap 3 - 1:26.342 /

Cheverolet Camaro SS
Lap 1 - 1:24.386 \
Lap 2 - 1:25.571 = Average: 1:25.571
Lap 3 - 1:25.362 /

Nissan 350Z (Concept)
Lap 1 - 1:25.454 \
Lap 2 - 1:25.622 = Average: 1:25.439
Lap 3 - 1:25.681 /

Subaru WRX STi
Lap 1 - 1:26.542 \
Lap 2 - 1:26.891 = Average: 1:27.017
Lap 3 - 1:27.619 /

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII GSR
Lap 1 - 1:25.257\
Lap 2 - 1:25.466 = Average: 1:25.954
Lap 3 - 1:27.128/

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII RS
Lap 1 - 1:25.488 \
Lap 2 - 1:26.673 = Average: 1:26.594
Lap 3 - 1:27.821 /

Mazda RX-7 Type RZ
Lap 1 - 1:24.398 \
Lap 2 - 1:24.557 = Average: 1:24.505
Lap 3 - 1:24.560 /

Mazda RX-7 Type RS
Lap 1 - 1:24.474 \
Lap 2 - 1:24.532 = Average: 1:24.565
Lap 3 - 1:24.690 /

Mazda RX-8
Lap 1 - 1:24.901 \
Lap 2 - 1:25.201 = Average: 1:25.161
Lap 3 - 1:25.381 /

These results are only of test 1 and do not reflect the cars overall performance on any track. The three fastest averages are highlighted in their respective "Podium" colors.

The next test is on a Medium track: Deep Forest. If you would like my opinion on the handling of a car compared to one of the others please feel free to ask ...

 

[Nightmage82]

Originally posted by Frustrated Palm
and no settings will be touched (ASM and TCS on).

i would have thought that turning ASM off would give you a more accurate feel for the handling of the cars. especially at their limits. some cars may benefit from understeer or oversteer to increase lap times for example?

paul

 

[Frustrated Palm]

I wanted them on, turning them off can affect the lines I take, making the experiment uneven. I have to take the same lines so that I know that one time wasnt slower becuase I took wider racing lines. They were on to keep me on track and as a constant so I know one car wasnt better on that track because it had TSC and ASM on and the other didnt. You said that some cars benifit from having them turned off, the thing is I DONT want that to happen, no car should have the advantage by turning something off or on...

 

[stevo357]

I just like Nissans better than the others. I wish they were still called Datsuns though I like the name it was so glutteral or something

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by Josh
Heh. I've got Car Test. It's soooo old, but pretty damn cool.

Any chance you could share that?

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

use Kazaa

 

[Shinez]

First of all there is no way the Evo VIII Can be considered the top japanese performer, if anything it would HAVE to be the STi...For one..The Evo VIII looks attrocious (I know that's all opinionated) but not only that the yaw control has been removed and it's completly ass heavy. I test drove one myself and for having some highly rated tires, they tended to chirp under low speed cornering. It also felt as if the front of the car was extremely stiff as if it was lifting off of the ground rather easily.

The 350z, it CAN be a great engine, it has tremendous potential, however it just doesn't feel like a car with nearly 300HP, it's major perk over the previous Z cars is that it is small and agile, nothing else.
The Mazda Rx-8, not only does it come riced out STOCK, with it's Altezza'ish Tail lights and useless spoiler, it's weight distribution is thrown out of wack due to the extra doors, the Rx-7 will surpass the 8 for a long while, untill they develop something astounding for it.
I have no real beef with the S2000 other than it has no low end. It's a fun car to drive, handles well, and if you get the good model that lacks the clutch problems you'll enjoy it for a while. It's weight distribution is almost perfect at a 49/51, along with that you have to give honda credit for making a 9500 redlining 4 cylinder with 240HP from a 2.0 Liter daily driveable.
But in the end the #1 japanese car is a NSX..No car has been able to touch it stock or modded on the road course (From Japan that is) and don't even bring up those "Best motoring Tests" because for 1, they tested C30 model Type S's which are the5th slowest version of the NSX....Well that's about all I have to say...By the way, what I drive is a 98 m3 (E36) which is stock
a 91 Rx-7 Turbo II which will soon have a 13B-REW in it and I also have a 93 Civic VX hatch with a B16A SiR II in it...All pretty nice cars..I love em dearly so I'll stick with em

 

[Shinez]

aswell as that, about the 4 door ITR yeah, they did make them, i've seen 2 originals as a matter of fact. and a Accord Euro R looks NOTHING like a ITR what was that guy thinking?