The official drivetrain discussion thread for "the beast"

[JCE]

As some of you know my Camaro's engine spun a berring and threw a piston rod. What's funny is I still managed to drive TEN miles with 7 cylinders+no oil+no coolant to get me where I needed to go to park it. He died with dignity and fighting all the way. I got 251,8xx miles from that 305 V8. Anyway, I'm creating this thread mainly to keep my and everyone else's thoughts/opinions down for the next drivetrain in my Camaro. Please vote but keep in mind these simple points...

• I do not want to cut up my frame/engine bay.
• I want to avoid Generations I-II 350ci engines. I just do.
• I want to avoid the Series I-III 3800 V6 engines.
• I want to avoid the 2.8L, 3.1L, 3.4L and 4.3L V6 engines.
• (generally want to avoid V6 engines with exception to a GNX drivetrain)
• I want to avoid any 4 cyl engine.
• I prefer to spend less than $4,000 TOTAL for the entire engine+transmission.*
• If you make a suggestion please give me examples/links and realistic cost estimate(s).
• I do not want a non-LT1 350ci. I just want to be different than your average Fbody engine swapper. I HATE seeing 350's everywhere, and I don't care if its cheaper. Money is not an object really.

*- This includes all brackets, components, accessories and wiring.


The 293ci is the 4.8L Gen III/IV Vortec truck V8 engine, the 325ci is the 5.3L Vortec truck V8 engine--these two are iron block aluminum heads and are derrived from the LS1. The 327ci is the old school 327.

Let the discussion begin.

=================================
*edit*
I do not mind a non-GM engine V8 swap but I need to keep the cost within reason. A Merc, Audi, BMW or other non-GM V8 engine would be acceptable.

 

[Jim Prower]

Ford 5.0 or 4.6 Modular? That'll piss people off. :3

Otherwise, I'm picking LS2 from what you've got there.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Out of those I say LS2 as well, but a 302 would be just so wrong that it would be perfect. Also, I've heard of a guy around here with a 351 Camaro, because it's what was cheap.

 

[Tornado]

Ohmigod RB26DETT!1!11!one!


Realistically:

Oh no! Then you spend a hundred bucks or so to get it to around 400 HP. Then you can spend the 1500 left on one of the many SBC turbo kits.

That's under $2,500.

 

[JCE]

A Ford V8 would be on that list if I had the info on the cost for a swap. A 302 swap would just be sick...so where's the info?

 

[Leonidae]

go for wankel. you know you want to.

 

[Tornado]

Sure. You could easily find them from all of the RX-7 owners who took theirs out.


(Really, I could have gone two ways with this. The alternative joke was: "You know it will fit, 'cause it sure fits in the RX-7.")


But seriously, JCE? Go for the engine/tranny type I linked to. Cheap as cheap as cheap. Technically, you don't even need the tranny, either.

 

[TheCracker]

So basically you've made a poll asking petrol heads what engine you should get for your car; a 250, 300, 320, 350 or 400bhp one? - i'm really suprised that most people have gone for the most powerful one.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

A Ford V8 would be on that list if I had the info on the cost for a swap. A 302 swap would just be sick...so where's the info?

Find out how much for a 302 and T5, get mounts made, then it's just wiring.

 

[YSSMAN]

You're going to be hard-pressed, I think, to find anything GenIV+ with a transmission for $4000. But, I'm sure there are some decent finds around there as well.

Personally, I'm impartial to the 327ci. We've got one in the '68 (425 BHP) and one in the Avalanche (320 BHP). If you can find a carbed one, I'd say go for it. They have an awesome powerband thats very flexible, moreso than the 350ci, and by the end of the day ends up being a unique small block to compare against the other options. As for the nuvo 327ci, well, I don't think GM sells the crate engines through their GMHP Catalog, so you're going to have to find a wrecked one. I'm not sure how well the ECU and all that jazz would want to work without the 4L60E, and vice versa. That stuff gets complicated for no reason.

 

[Jim Prower]

Sure. You could easily find them from all of the RX-7 owners who took theirs out.


(Really, I could have gone two ways with this. The alternative joke was: "You know it will fit, 'cause it sure fits in the RX-7.")


But seriously, JCE? Go for the engine/tranny type I linked to. Cheap as cheap as cheap. Technically, you don't even need the tranny, either.

Your link's broken, I'm afraid.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So basically you've made a poll asking petrol heads what engine you should get for your car; a 250, 300, 320, 350 or 400bhp one? - i'm really suprised that most people have gone for the most powerful one.

Well, there is still the issue of weight. 💡

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The 400hp option is the lightest

 

[Tornado]

Your link's broken, I'm afraid.

Ebay links are retarded. Fixed.

 

[Lofasz]

What's funny is I still managed to drive TEN miles with 7 cylinders+no oil+no coolant to get me where I needed to go to park it.

Ah, you obviously us Z-Max!

 

[Prosthetic]

Just put a 302 in it and call it a day... And to piss people off

 

[Lofasz]

. . . Please vote but keep in mind these simple points...

• I prefer to spend less than $4,000 TOTAL for the entire engine+transmission.
  
• Money is not an object really.

Interesting price range.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

$4,000 will be tough for engine and tranny combo.
Its not on the list but I would go with the 6 speed T-56 tranny for sure. It was the best investment I put into my 69 Camaro and more than doubled the mpg. You should be able to find one for around $1,500. You will need a decent clutch, pressure plate setup. After that you should still have a couple grand left for the engine. I would have suggested a 383 stroker but that will be out of your price rage if you get a 6 speed.
You say you want to avoid the 1st and 2nd gen 350s but really they are the best bang for the buck and if you get the 6 speed you could easily aford a 350. With that combo you would still get over 20mpg with at least 350-375 hp.
I voted for the LT1 because for your price range I think that will be perfect especially if you get a 6 speed.

 

[Cano]

$4,000 will be tough for engine and tranny combo.
Its not on the list but I would go with the 6 speed T-56 tranny for sure. It was the best investment I put into my 69 Camaro and more than doubled the mpg. You should be able to find one for around $1,500. You will need a decent clutch, pressure plate setup. After that you should still have a couple grand left for the engine. I would have suggested a 383 stroker but that will be out of your price rage if you get a 6 speed.
You say you want to avoid the 1st and 2nd gen 350s but really they are the best bang for the buck and if you get the 6 speed you could easily aford a 350. With that combo you would still get over 20mpg with at least 350-375 hp.
I voted for the LT1 because for your price range I think that will be perfect especially if you get a 6 speed.

man, really, do this and call it a day, the guy knows what he is saying, and the T56 is decent.

 

[Nicksfix]

327 old school 👍

 

[stumpydino]

no love for an iron duke?
i say go for camaroboy's idea

 

[Slicks]

I'll second CAMAROBOY.

383 + T56, or
LT1 + T56.

 

[JCE]

go for wankel. you know you want to.

Not in a million years.

But seriously, JCE? Go for the engine/tranny type I linked to. Cheap as cheap as cheap. Technically, you don't even need the tranny, either.

I am thinking about converting my car to a manual but it would have to be done by a serious professional who's done it before. Last thing I need is my precious car to be hacked to death with no way to restore/fix it.

Find out how much for a 302 and T5, get mounts made, then it's just wiring.

The T-5 was the manual of choice for GM too in that generation.

Ah, you obviously us Z-Max!

Nope. But I get your sarcasm.

Just put a 302 in it and call it a day... And to piss people off

I would love to...show me how. Give me a link. Seriously, I would do it in a nanosecond if it was cost effective.

Interesting price range.

What that means is basically I would prefer to spend no more than $4,000--but if something outstanding comes along for say $4,425 or what-not I might consider it. Still, I prefer to stick with $4,000. I still have at least ~$1,500 in bodywork and at least the same amount in paint. My total budget for the car is around $8,000-9,000. This includes wheels/tires, paint, bodywork, suspension/steering/rearend, brakes, exhaust, interior/exterior bits and obviously drivetrain.

$4,000 will be tough for engine and tranny combo.
Its not on the list but I would go with the 6 speed T-56 tranny for sure. It was the best investment I put into my 69 Camaro and more than doubled the mpg. You should be able to find one for around $1,500. You will need a decent clutch, pressure plate setup. After that you should still have a couple grand left for the engine. I would have suggested a 383 stroker but that will be out of your price rage if you get a 6 speed.
You say you want to avoid the 1st and 2nd gen 350s but really they are the best bang for the buck and if you get the 6 speed you could easily aford a 350. With that combo you would still get over 20mpg with at least 350-375 hp.
I voted for the LT1 because for your price range I think that will be perfect especially if you get a 6 speed.

I do not want to do what EVERYONE ELSE and their grandmother does with a 3rd gen Fbody...and that is drop a 350 or 383 in it. BORING. I do like LT1's because they are cheap and have a large enough aftermarket to get some decent power vs $$$. But, I don't care about it being the cheapest--I want to be different in the end. And being different can be at a reasonable price (305 TPI + twin turbo for instance). And I'd love a T56--if my car was a manual car.

I'll second CAMAROBOY.

383 + T56, or
LT1 + T56.

LT1 + T56 or LT1 + 4L60E are the only acceptable 350 combinations.

 

[Leonidae]

how about going creative and using BMW V8? like M62B44 with 6-speed tranny and LSD from 540i M-sport? should be something around 5-7k for whole car.

 

[Revheadnz]

Buy whichever of those is the cheapest and has EFI. Don't bother with building it for natural aspiration. Do what Toronado suggested and turbocharge it. You will get more power and torque in a more useable fashion. A semi-low pressure turbocharged build is not particularly tough on the motor and tuned well can result in better fuel economy also.

I don't have any links to supply but I know there are a lot of people and places that know how to turbocharge SBC right.

 

[JCE]

how about going creative and using BMW V8? like M62B44 with 6-speed tranny and LSD from 540i M-sport? should be something around 5-7k for whole car.

I would do that in a nanosecond. That also includes a Merc or Audi V8. My problem will be wiring and mounts. Plus the engine will likely have to be rebuilt since the donor car will likely have a butt-ton of miles to be cheap enough to purchase.

Buy whichever of those is the cheapest and has EFI. Don't bother with building it for natural aspiration. Do what Toronado suggested and turbocharge it. You will get more power and torque in a more useable fashion. A semi-low pressure turbocharged build is not particularly tough on the motor and tuned well can result in better fuel economy also.

I don't have any links to supply but I know there are a lot of people and places that know how to turbocharge SBC right.

I know there are turbo small blocks out there, the cost of fabricating the exhaust manifold alone might be expensive and put it out of my price range. That is everything except the 305 TPI. That engine no one wants except me so I could snag that engine for next to nothing ($250) and my current transmission will work as well. That is the most cost effective choice there is...all said and done it probably won't run me more than $2,800 to do give or take $100. Mounts are there, accessories from my 305 are there, wiring is mostly there, transmission (healthy) is there and most importantly it requires NO fabrication. The ECU and fuel pump are the only things that I need to change over from my TBI to the TPI.

The 305 TPI stock in most years had 215bhp and 275tq. Add 2 turbos and you're likely to get over 400bhp easy.

 

[RedTransAm]

The ECU and fuel pump are the only things that I need to change over from my TBI to the TPI.

Not quite that simple, you're going to need a TPI wiring harness as well as a TPI idle air control valve, throttle position sensor, and knock sensor. You're also going have to change the fuel lines to ones from a TPI car since you're going to be going from about 12 psi to about 50. The TBI fuel lines aren't going to cut it.

The 305 TPI stock in most years had 215bhp and 275tq. Add 2 turbos and you're likely to get over 400bhp easy.

Don't expect that engine to last very long.

 

[niky]

Put a Skyline engine into it!!! OMFG ROFLERS!!!




Just kidding... I meant Silvia...

But seriously... the LS2 sounds sweet, if it fits your budget. Aluminum blocks are just sooooo tasty...

 

[niky]

Put a Skyline engine into it!!! OMFG ROFLERS!!!




Just kidding... I meant Silvia...

But seriously... the LS2 sounds sweet, if it fits your budget. Aluminum blocks are just sooooo tasty...

 

[JCE]

Looks like the stock LS2 is what most people are preferring on this and other forums.

Not quite that simple, you're going to need a TPI wiring harness as well as a TPI idle air control valve, throttle position sensor, and knock sensor. You're also going have to change the fuel lines to ones from a TPI car since you're going to be going from about 12 psi to about 50. The TBI fuel lines aren't going to cut it.

I know that I was just listing two of the examples. I didn't feel like going on and on listing each piece. And you can adapt the TBI wiring to work with the TPI as well--I know local guys who have done it.

Don't expect that engine to last very long.

Actually I would expect it to last longer than you think. 305's are known for reliability--I know I have/had one. Two small PSI turbos, ECU tune, crank, pistons, cam, exhaust and heads would easily get 400bhp while not overextending the engine. You don't think I would just simply put two turbos and do nothing else do you? Not a chance, I'm not stupid. 👍