The Old Vs. The New

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RDF97

RDF97

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Hello, in this thread I want you to focus on the differences between the old and the new version of any given car. To make this thread work, I want you to post something on the lines of:

How is the new car better than the old car? Does the new car lack any improvement/or hasn't improved much from the old car? And if so, is it for the better of for the worse? Then after we get some really good debate going then someone else can post another car and everyone will post in the same fashion as the previous topic.

So basically I want you guys to point any flaws and any plus points of both the old and new car given. I want a really good debate to get going so I'll start off with...

... the Chrysler 300C and/or Chrysler 300C SRT8

Chrysler-300C-002.jpg

Chrysler-300c_600a-600x400.jpg
 
MarinaDiamandis
So, you want good debate, but can't be bothered to contribute to it yourself?

Pass.
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I meant by starting off with the car given. But I see that was a bad idea, so to kick things off. The Chrysler 300C.

The new 300C
Good Things - It has more power from its 6.4 engine over its 6.1 (SRT8), they have introduced a new 8 speed transmission, they've tried to get it up there with the big names in the market.

Bad things - In an attempt to make it more restrained they have made it ugly. My grandmother has owned big Chrysler's(V8's) in the past but when she saw this new one, she said that she wasn't going to have one because it was ugly. Also I've read a review of this car and the guy who bought put this in TopGear Magaine, and his fuel consumption was about 17L/100km(13mpg) thats poor!
 
The new one is ugly? What on earth did she think of the old one, then?

And taking the word of a UK car magazine on the fuel economy of a V8 American car is laughable. These are rated at 19/mpg combined, which seems about average.
 
I think the new 300C looks better than the old one. It still looks intimidating but in a slightly cleaner package. The SRT8 is pretty pointless in the UK and it doesn't have the interior quality of equivalent rivals. However the diesel variant seems like a good choice especially with getting close to 40mpg. It's just different from the norm and thats what I like about it.

I'm also quite glad there's no estate version of the new 300C as it looked like a barge and likely handles like one too.
 
McLaren
The new one is ugly? What on earth did she think of the old one, then?

And taking the word of a UK car magazine on the fuel economy of a V8 American car is laughable. These are rated at 19/mpg combined, which seems about average.
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No. That's the thing, it appeared in TopGear but the fuel figure given was completeley genuine from someone who genuinely bought the car and sent his view on the car to TopGear. How's that laughable?
 
RDF97
No. That's the thing, it appeared in TopGear but the fuel figure given was completeley genuine from someone who genuinely bought the car and sent his view on the car to TopGear. How's that laughable?
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Because comparing the EPA tested ratings of other cars to the numbers some dude got is an affront to the scientific process.

In order for Top Gear's number to matter it would...

A) have to stop being such a crappy magazine.
B) run the same test in a controlled environment with every other car that we wish to compare to.
 
RDF97
No. That's the thing, it appeared in TopGear but the fuel figure given was completeley genuine from someone who genuinely bought the car and sent his view on the car to TopGear. How's that laughable?
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I didn't say it wasn't genuine. It's laughable though, because it's coming from a UK-based driver. Big American V8s have never been a viable source of transportation over there because they're notoriously expensive & the fuel economy just doesn't suffice a country that pays for gas by the liter instead of the gallon. They don't seem to typically drive on big open, 4-6 lane roads like we do in the US, so the car's fuel economy is going to take a hit.

It would be like reading a Europe-based magazine that did a test on a Ford F150 & calling it the worst car imaginable as far as fuel, practicality, & price were concerned. But, it had a nice interior. :dunce:
 
RDF97
No. That's the thing, it appeared in TopGear but the fuel figure given was completeley genuine from someone who genuinely bought the car and sent his view on the car to TopGear. How's that laughable?
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Though I don't discredit that he did only get 13mpg, his number is only one statistic obtained in an uncontrolled environment. There is hardly any confidence that that number is representative of the actual mileage.
 
The EPA mileage for the 300C Hemi is 16 mpg city, 25 Highway. Pretty poor, if you ask me. Also, about the 300:

 
Offering only one engine in the Chrysler over in the UK isn't doing it any favors. The 3.7L V6 we offer here in the US with the 8-speed automatic is a pretty silky drivetrain, and it has gotten a good bit of praise. Obviously, the Hemi V8 gets much of the same treatment.

In America, it's competitive. But, it's a middle-weight luxury vehicle. You won't cross-shop them with BMWs and Audis, but it's certainly a bit better than your average Dodge or Chevrolet.

Here in America, they offer a good bit of variation in what you can get, for good prices or not. There is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle with a decent bit of kit, the V6, and maybe all-wheel-drive for us up here in the cooler climates. But, in the end, I don't think I'd be my primary choice in the middle-weight luxury market. I'd much rather have a 2014 Chevrolet Impala, or perhaps, even the 2014 Kia Cradenza. The 300C is nice, with the right options, but it just isn't the pick of the litter.
 
To be fair, you have to differentiate a bit between the various versions of the Chevrolet Impala. As a nameplate that has been in use on and off since the 1950's, you've got an outrageous number of body styles, powertrains, and indeed "intentions" compared to the new model that's sitting on dealer lots.

The heyday of the Impala would be those of the early '60s, with the 327ci and 409ci V8s. Then, the car was arguably an everyday, everyman, moderately luxurious vehicle. Certainly better than your neighbors Fairlane or Coronet. But, that was a time when American cars were American cars... The '70s turned a lot of things upside down, and the Impala became a trim level on the Caprice, a standard V8 sedan that remained mostly unchanged for 20 years.

Comparing the new Impala to the older models, there really isn't one to do a direct comparison with other than those that existed from '00-05, and then the refreshed model from '06-13. In that sense, comparing a W-Body car that dates back to the mid-'80s in design, and had been on-sale since '88, there are going to be some dramatic differences, particularly when the new Impala is based on a global chassis that is being shared with some very high-luxury models.

The new Impala is everything the car should have been 13 years ago. Reasonably luxurious, comfortable, capable, all-around a high-quality product that is deserving of the Impala name. No, it isn't quite as cool as the 1993-1996 Impala SS, but, the "reserved" look of the vehicle is absolutely outstanding in person. I could go on and on about how much I like this car, and how much I, even as a 26 year old, would love to own one.

If there are any complaints about the new car, it's that the juxtaposition between hitting the look and feel of it completely out of the park, while giving it powertrains that are merely "adequate." The standard 2.5L I4 is potent, and completely reasonable as a base engine. The same can be said of the "used-in-everything" 3.6L V6. Where it falls-short is the lack of available all-wheel-drive, which would make it a direct competitor in every trim to the Ford Taurus and Dodge Challenger. Moreover, with the Cadillac XTS getting the 420 BHP turbo V6 from the CTS, it makes me wish they'd drop that in the Chevrolet, give it all-wheel-drive, and make it a "reserved" sport sedan to go against the SHO.

...Although, that means it completely steps on the toes of the SS sedan...

As a practical, everyday, comfortable, middle-luxury vehicle, this new Impala absolutely knocks it out of the park. The prices are justified, the performance reasonable, and I wish I could afford to get one.
 
Right new cars, the Ferrari Enzo and the Ferrari LaFerrari

images


http://www.google.com.au/imgres?um=1&hl=en&authuser=0&biw=1280&bih=862&tbm=isch&tbnid=NgQTLhF7IAcVVM:&imgrefurl=http://abduzeedo.com/laferrari&docid=jkISL6M9cAdOVM&imgurl=http://abduzeedo.com/files/originals/ct_laferrari_hp_02_side.jpg&w=2560&h=1600&ei=5f2_UZvRM8KWkwWBw4GADw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:1,s:0,i:89&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=177&tbnw=272&start=0&ndsp=15&tx=159&ty=59 (picture wouldn't load)

The new LaFerrari is a striking looking thing you got to admit, a real head turner. Good. Also, 970bhp, top speed of more than 350km/h(220mph), 0-100km/h(0-60mph) in less than 3 seconds, 0-300km/h(0-186mph) in less than 15 seconds. So performance is biblical, much more better than the Enzo. Bad things though, the name. LaFerrari, just stick to F70; Enzo Mach II would have been better than LaFerrari! Also its a hybrid. However thats helped it achieve that magical 970bhp. But they did that because of that emissions crap. Thank you very much.
 
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The Enzo was never the best looking Ferrari in the world but it sounded soooo good from that V12. It was a more raw machine than a Carrera GT. Using it everyday, being a hypercar would just be an absolute pain. Disregarding the niggles of everyday road use, the Enzo likely sits up there with legends like the F40, 288 GTO and 250 GTO.

The LaFerrari has a stupid name, since F70 would've been better. The KERS hybrid system will annoy a lot of purists who will be baying for blood, but I think it's the only way for hypercars like this to go. How else are they going to transfer more F1 technology to road cars?

I reckon the LaFerrari is slightly better looking than the Enzo and will sound just as glorious. It still isn't pretty compared to a 918 Spyder, but it's an improvement. It might be slightly more usable day to day but in the end, it's still just a toy for millionaires.
 
AudiMan2011
The Enzo was never the best looking Ferrari in the world but it sounded soooo good from that V12. It was a more raw machine than a Carrera GT. Using it everyday, being a hypercar would just be an absolute pain. Disregarding the niggles of everyday road use, the Enzo likely sits up there with legends like the F40, 288 GTO and 250 GTO.

The LaFerrari has a stupid name, since F70 would've been better. The KERS hybrid system will annoy a lot of purists who will be baying for blood, but I think it's the only way for hypercars like this to go. How else are they going to transfer more F1 technology to road cars?

I reckon the LaFerrari is slightly better looking than the Enzo and will sound just as glorious. It still isn't pretty compared to a 918 Spyder, but it's an improvement. It might be slightly more usable day to day but in the end, it's still just a toy for millionaires.
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Funny you say that. Production is limited to 500 units a year and they've already received 1000 orders.
 
The La Ferrari uses hybrid power because of the many performance advantages of the system including packaging and weight distribution, low engine RPM torque, and regenerative braking. Ferrari also has experience with KERS from F1 and it's an effective marketing move to put "F1 tech" in your new road car. Saying that the system was engineered because "emissions crap" is downright laughable.
 
Zenith
The La Ferrari uses hybrid power because of the many performance advantages of the system including packaging and weight distribution, low engine RPM torque, and regenerative braking. Ferrari also has experience with KERS from F1 and it's an effective marketing move to put "F1 tech" in your new road car. Saying that the system was engineered because "emissions crap" is downright laughable.
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Quite.

Always amuses me when people with no knowledge of hybrids mouth off about them. It used to annoy me, but I'm long past bothering with people who won't listen anyway.

On 300C vs 300C, I quite like both. And the gas mileage thing isn't as much an issue in the UK anyway, for two reasons. One, we also have a diesel option. And two, because it's so poor on gas in a country where our fuel is so expensive, the cars themselves are pretty cheap on the used market. Seem to be available from around £7,000 at the moment, or $11,000, and that's without looking too hard. Not a lot of money for quite a lot of car.
 
homeforsummer
Quite.

Always amuses me when people with no knowledge of hybrids mouth off about them. It used to annoy me, but I'm long past bothering with people who won't listen anyway.

On 300C vs 300C, I quite like both. And the gas mileage thing isn't as much an issue in the UK anyway, for two reasons. One, we also have a diesel option. And two, because it's so poor on gas in a country where our fuel is so expensive, the cars themselves are pretty cheap on the used market. Seem to be available from around £7,000 at the moment, or $11,000, and that's without looking too hard. Not a lot of money for quite a lot of car.
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$11000. What?
 
homeforsummer
While that's undoubtedly a question, it's not really a sentence. What part of the number is puzzling you?
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Probably the whole $11,000 is puzzling him given the USA or Australian car market compared to Europe and the UK.
 
RDF97
No it's not that, it's that, are they really going that cheap?
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It's a little thing called depreciation. The 300C has never been the best seller in the UK and the cars are going for pretty cheap these days on the used car market.
 
I love the new 300C. They improved everything, and the look has grown on me. I could imagine getting the V6 as a daily car.
 
The 300 SRT8 is a mighty fine alternative to the HSVs and FPVs we have here. Undercuts the similar HSV Senator and FPV GT-P by a good $20k and has similar/better features, a bit more power and a whole lot more torque.

Bloody bargain really.
 
AudiMan2011
It's a little thing called depreciation. The 300C has never been the best seller in the UK and the cars are going for pretty cheap these days on the used car market.
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Fair enough, but linking back to homeforsummer post; their $63000 brand new (I don't know what that is in pounds) when I read that they were selling cheap second hand, I was just thinking 'what did they purchase the car for?'
 

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