The Race to 6:59.999. King of The Ring Challenge.

  • Thread starter Thread starter paskowitz
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Does the Dodge Viper ACR qualify for this?

I don't even own the car in GT5, but I know Dodge says it's a street legal production car.

My guess is it won't be able to get sub 7, since it's real life time is 7:22. But it could probably get close.
 
ugabugaz
Slap a sports-exhaust on it and detune it with the power limiter.
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Is that allowed for this competition? I thought no tuning was allowed if the part wasn't already on the car? (It might already have that on stock...I'll have to check again.

@kweiss I believe the ACR is alright for this challenge but like you said...I don't think it can break the barrier.

@Duck The enzo understeers into corners but coming out you can apply too much throttle or apply it too early and it will have a tendency to spin the tires thus creating oversteer. It's one challenging puppy.
 
@Duck I'm not sure Paskowitz will allow the S2000 GT1 Turbo or Cerbera Speed 12 but I decided to give them a go anyways since there isn't a lot of production cars that have the chance to break the time. I'm still hunting for the cerbera. I would definitely recommend giving it a go. It's a great car.
 
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Ok, after doing some research, Cebera is out (its not even close), ZZII really was never produced (if I allow that then all one offs will have to be allowed). The GT1 will get an asterisk because I have read conflicting statements about its production status and legality. It seems there is a bit of gray area.
 
Peluski17
Is that allowed for this competition? I thought no tuning was allowed if the part wasn't already on the car? (It might already have that on stock...I'll have to check again.

@kweiss I believe the ACR is alright for this challenge but like you said...I don't think it can break the barrier.

@Duck The enzo understeers into corners but coming out you can apply too much throttle or apply it too early and it will have a tendency to spin the tires thus creating oversteer. It's one challenging puppy.
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Dunno but the only thing that did is modify the Horsepower to actual levels...Not sure why it wouldn't be allowed.
 
ugabugaz
Dunno but the only thing that did is modify the Horsepower to actual levels...Not sure why it wouldn't be allowed.
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If that's the case then I will give it a shot. Mine as well try at the right levels. Although it is not a production car it will still be interesting to see if it can do it.

What is the actual level?

@Duck Good luck! ;)

@Paskowitz Sounds good! I'm still going to try the Cerbera just for my own interestes.
 
Tried out the Cerbera Speed 12 '00 tonight. I must thank Ealirendur for gifting it to me. Greatly appreciate it! I am a little disappointed in its performance so far though.

Even with full downforce it is slower than the Bugatti which doesn't make since based on its HP, weight, and power/weight specs. One thing I did notice is that there is massive delay during upshifts that may cause valuable time to be lost. In my opinion, it handles better than the stock McLaren F1 but it can't keep up suprisingly with the Bugatti or Amuse S2000.

And yes, you can still spin the tires in 4th gear...Ealirendur what tuneable features beyond downforce did the car come with? I'm hoping the customizable transmission was one lol. The car has so much power that it shifts similar to an F1, if you will, in the fact that you run through gears 1-3 pretty quickly...the shift delay kills it though.

I'll keep at it and see if I can improve with it, but initially I have my doubts. I really thought this car would beat the time easily.
 
Peluski17
Tried out the Cerbera Speed 12 '00 tonight. I must thank Ealirendur for gifting it to me. Greatly appreciate it! I am a little disappointed in its performance so far though.

Even with full downforce it is slower than the Bugatti which doesn't make since based on its HP, weight, and power/weight specs. One thing I did notice is that there is massive delay during upshifts that may cause valuable time to be lost. In my opinion, it handles better than the stock McLaren F1 but it can't keep up suprisingly with the Bugatti or Amuse S2000.

And yes, you can still spin the tires in 4th gear...Ealirendur what tuneable features beyond downforce did the car come with? I'm hoping the customizable transmission was one lol. The car has so much power that it shifts similar to an F1, if you will, in the fact that you run through gears 1-3 pretty quickly...the shift delay kills it though.

I'll keep at it and see if I can improve with it, but initially I have my doubts. I really thought this car would beat the time easily.
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Height Adjustable Transmission was stock, which might be very useful. The one I sent had all the extra non-permanent mods available, but not selected.

Stotty managed to get a near-fully tuned one set up to run the loop on SHs in just under seven minutes here, with settings and video. I actually don't think horsepower helps much, as he mentions somewhere - but the gearbox and LSD would. Sports Softs gets the tuned one down under 6:30 without any other changes, which is really rather brisk.

It doesn't turn-in quickly, but it's surprisingly stable. Getting the power down instead of rubber seems to be the problem.

I've got the Citroen Road car on my GTP profile if you feel curious ;-)
 
Did another 7:04 with the F1. I had a perfect lap up until about 3/4ths through when I went off twice. I was not matching the split times in the beginning but started to gain ground later on. 6:59.999 is possible it is just going to be bloody difficult.
 
Ealirendur
Under. A lot. It's the polar opposite of the F1, in that respect.
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My F1 handles like an absolute pig! I've re-built the chassis & tried tunes from various shops, to no avail. All I get is huge understeer & incessant (& extremely annoying) screeching of the tyres. (Racing soft) I'm at the point where I don't even want to drive the car anymore. :guilty:

Any tips/ideas before I sell it?
 
paskowitz
Did another 7:04 with the F1. I had a perfect lap up until about 3/4ths through when I went off twice. I was not matching the split times in the beginning but started to gain ground later on. 6:59.999 is possible it is just going to be bloody difficult.
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I still haven't been able to break my 7:10 yet...me and the car aren't getting along yet. I need to spend more time with it but right now I'm trying many different cars including some concepts just to see which has a chance. A 7:04 with that finnicky car is stellar in my book.

I think you will also lose some time going down the long straight so plan for a second or two there just in case haha.
 
There may be a forum post on this and it may be just my imagination but it does feel that there is slightly more grip in arcade mode when grip is set to real than in the practice mode. It's not a great difference but it may help those trying to knock off some time.
 
The only advice I can give is this: first corner exit is critical. Steer the car left then right then left through the corner. This builds up understeer on the front wheels and then magically cancels the oversteer that follows otherwise. If you approach straight and then trail brake the car just oversteers. Its super annoying. It is a strange technique but it works. Second, you have to lay off the throttle on exit on slower corners. For fast bends you have to be ready to countersteer and lay off a bit. The real trick is not upsetting the cars balance by hitting the curbs too aggressively. This is what has caused me problems. I will clip the grass or the curb and its over. Ugh.
 
I didn't realise people were finding this difficult. I found it very easy, I didn't do any practice, I'd never drove the GT-R on them tyres before and I got the trophy on my first attempt by a couple of seconds and I was in gravel trap once.
 
Jamie-C
I didn't realise people were finding this difficult. I found it very easy, I didn't do any practice, I'd never drove the GT-R on them tyres before and I got the trophy on my first attempt by a couple of seconds and I was in gravel trap once.
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Did you read the OP. Easy this is not. The F1 is no where as easy to drive as the GTR, which drives like it is on rails.
 
Jamie-C
I didn't realise people were finding this difficult. I found it very easy, I didn't do any practice, I'd never drove the GT-R on them tyres before and I got the trophy on my first attempt by a couple of seconds and I was in gravel trap once.
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Yeah, the GT-R will definitely not break the 7min barrier and is very easy to handle on sports hard compared to cars like the F1. I would recommend giving this competition a shot. It's tough, but fun!
 
I had the time to do a 3-4 laps with the Enzo, but still don't have a clean one. My best is 7:42 with a lot of spins and two 360°.
First: the car jumps everywhere. Has very low suspension range, a stiff setup and car is very light. It's like driving on eggs.
Second: if you carry too much speed in corners it understeers like a train. That's it, braking surprised me. It seems it simply can't do it.. stop where you want. For example at Swedenkreuz. Under correct braking you do it at 220kmh. Every time I tried trail braking I was out of track at 170-180kmh.

If you manage in braking correctly it's easy to turn in, quite neutral along the corner, and you have to countersteer if apply too much throttle on exit. That's mine review of the beast.

Now have to work about consistency: Hocheichen dive, Metsgesfeld and Miss hit miss bumps, Kesselchen high speed corners are critical points for this car. Very short gears doesn't help at all. Third lasts only between 110 and 150kmh, barely 30mph. I have to acclimate with this.
 
Jamie-C
I didn't realise people were finding this difficult. I found it very easy, I didn't do any practice, I'd never drove the GT-R on them tyres before and I got the trophy on my first attempt by a couple of seconds and I was in gravel trap once.
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That's not bad, but we mere mortals have a ways to go - it's possible to hit 7'11.775 with that GT-R (...and yes, without SRF - that got the driver in question a 6:59). Could you try the McLaren F1 on sports hards, no aids, grip reduction real, and report your results? I know I find it pretty challenging, and I don't think I can catch paskowitz's times with that setup without a whole of practice (when I want to be doing WRS runs! ;-)

Jaywalker
My F1 handles like an absolute pig! I've re-built the chassis & tried tunes from various shops, to no avail. All I get is huge understeer & incessant (& extremely annoying) screeching of the tyres. (Racing soft) I'm at the point where I don't even want to drive the car anymore. :guilty:

Any tips/ideas before I sell it?
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Is Traction Control off? Is the Chassis Reinforcement fitted? Could you PM the setup you were happiest with? I used it stock on Comfort Softs to grab the drift trial prizemoney yesterday, so I really don't think it has quite the porcine tendencies you describe (at least in stock form). It's no Elise, but...

Duck
I had the time to do a 3-4 laps with the Enzo, but still don't have a clean one. My best is 7:42 with a lot of spins and two 360°.
First: the car jumps everywhere. Has very low suspension range, a stiff setup and car is very light. It's like driving on eggs.
Second: if you carry too much speed in corners it understeers like a train. That's it, braking surprised me. It seems it simply can't do it.. stop where you want. For example at Swedenkreuz. Under correct braking you do it at 220kmh. Every time I tried trail braking I was out of track at 170-180kmh.

If you manage in braking correctly it's easy to turn in, quite neutral along the corner, and you have to countersteer if apply too much throttle on exit. That's mine review of the beast.
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It certainly has unique handling, and the Sports Hards don't do it any favours. Definitely try fiddling with Brake Balance to your liking; people often set it fairly strongly rearward to help with the trail braking (but I guess not so much you overstress or break traction on the rears. Note that in a quick fiddle with the F1, frontward bias seemed to help with weight transfer).
 
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Managed to get a 7:06 tonight with the potential of getting an optimistic 7:02-3 during the lap...Paskowitz you are right when you say the sector right before the long straight is a spinning wheel nightmare. You need total throttle control going through there. A lot of my good laps ended there. I think I'm still a little conservative in a few sections but I think it will work itself out the longer I go at it.

It would be nice if the stock transmission (gear settings) would let you get the max performance out of the car.
 
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Peluski17
Managed to get a 7:06 tonight with the potential of getting an optimistic 7:02-3 during the lap...Paskowitz you are right when you say the sector right before the long straight is a spinning wheel nightmare. You need total throttle control going through there. A lot of my good laps ended there. I think I'm still a little conservative in a few sections but I think it will work itself out the longer I go at it.

It would be nice if the stock transmission (gear settings) would let you get the max performance out of the car.
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See what I mean, its nuts. The elevation change and undulations really upset the car. Its really hard to memorize let alone react to each section. It is either that section or the first corner. Yeah it only hits 5th on the straight. Some very light tuning could send this car well past 7min. FYI I have my brake balance on 5/4. What is yours?
 
I didn't realize that we can tweak the brake balance. I'll try to fix the Enzo braking response then.
 
Duck
I didn't realize that we can tweak the brake balance. I'll try to fix the Enzo braking response then.
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Increased brakes to 6-6. Delivered a 7:08 with a major double splash out. Had I not had that double accident, 6:59 and under would have certainly been achieved. UGH!
Throttle control is so damn important with this monster of a car. Same goes for instantaneous steering correction due to throttle. So...close, Just need one perfect lap.
This would be a whole lot easier with a wheel.
Wipeouts occurred between Eschbach and Brünnchen. Just over-throttled slightly and sent my car into a spin, recovered and then couldn't brake in time for the next turn.
Check link below for helpful track breakdown. Each section has a name and a nice little history paragraph.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/ueberuns/streckeninformationen/nordschleife/nordschleife00.html
 
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paskowitz
See what I mean, its nuts. The elevation change and undulations really upset the car. Its really hard to memorize let alone react to each section. It is either that section or the first corner. Yeah it only hits 5th on the straight. Some very light tuning could send this car well past 7min. FYI I have my brake balance on 5/4. What is yours?
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I've fiddled around with different balance settings but I too have had the best response with a 5-4 brake balance. I'll give it a go again tonight after work. I can taste victory coming soon.

@ugabugaz Is that with a stock Enzo? I might have to go back to the car if thats the case.
 
Duck
I didn't realize that we can tweak the brake balance. I'll try to fix the Enzo braking response then.
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Yeah, you can adjust any item on the car that comes standard with it with the exception that hp and torque are +/- 5 of real life specs.
 
I didn't consider it a legit tweak, but after some googling I realized that many street cars, even subcompacts comes with a manual pressure red. valve :p

Another point in the rules that could be changed by pascowitz is ballast. The behaviour of the Enzo improves ballasting the car, and don't see anything wrong if I carry some vegetables in the passenger seat: it helps avoiding big jumps and also helps warming tires (another critical area for the Enzo)..... Third rule is tires. Enzo uses Bridgestone Potenza RE050 Scuderia, which is a medium compound in the sport tires range. Also, according to the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Automobile Museum, Veyron tires last only 15 minutes at full speed, which suggest a softer option for the Bugatti too. It can be a clue that car behaviour isn't that predictable with tires of a inferior step ;)

Engine: mine is now at 667CV without oil change, but IRL is 660CV and can't go under 662CV following the rules. What do you think?
Gear ratios are wrong, but are these of the F1 too (sources: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ferrari/enzo/enzo/2004.html http://www.f1cartvideos.com/toptencar3.html )

So, under the rules (SH etc), I tweaked braking to 10/10, because imho the car didn't stop in a decent space. Times came down to 7:27, very near to the Evo Magazine test (7:25 with a broken damper!!) which is the same time obtained by Peluski17 (Kudos to him!!!!) after only 3 laps :sly:

Comparing split times with the Bugatti, I lost time almost everywhere. Splits were the same only in these sections:
Adenau (Aremberg to Adenauer Forst)
Kesselchen (until Angstkurve)
Also lost 2" between Galgenkopf and finish line, due to the lack (?) of power.
IMHO, under actual rules my limit should be in the 7:10-7:20 range. A better skilled driver have to make a try 👍
 
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