The Rise of Populism, both Left and Right

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Dotini

Dotini

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The election of 2016 installed "Republican" Donald J. Trump as president-elect, IMO primarily driven by a populist prairie fire, or uprising amongst presumably angry or unhappy people.

Not only did Republicans retain control of the US house and senate, but gained strongly in state houses and legislatures. The Democrats are down to maybe only 15 governorships out of the 50 states.

The Democratic party is now in total disarray, protest and even riot. There is a great vacuum in leadership, with all kinds of would-be leaders coming out to claim leadership, including a Muslim. There is very likely a populist rebellion now taking place in the Democratic Party, the people on the left in the US.

Populism swings both ways.

This thread is opened to discuss populism, populists, populist history and literature, and current populist movements now taking place world-wide on both left and right.

Please be as respectful and polite as you can be. It may be difficult sometimes as injustices, anger and obscure or aberrant ideologies come under discussion.
 
We have Geert!

IMG_BOB_T1_Wilders_geen__2_1_48V7H7M.jpg


Not a bad politician, but his ideas can rival Trump’s.
 
Dotini
Where does he stand in your country's pecking order?
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Far right. Occupies 12 seats out of 150 in our house of representatives. Currently he's going down in the polls, but as soon as an Allah Akbar scream is followed by an explosion or gunfire he'll be the biggest party in the polls again.

Also, he has a case running against him because at a political rally he asked his audience if they wanted more or less Moroccans in the Netherlands, the audience shouted Less! Less! Less! and now he's being tried for hate speech/racism etc etc.
 
Dennisch
Far right. Occupies 12 seats out of 150 in our house of representatives. Currently he's going down in the polls, but as soon as an Allah Akbar scream is followed by an explosion or gunfire he'll be the biggest party in the polls again.

Also, he has a case running against him because at a political rally he asked his audience if they wanted more or less Moroccans in the Netherlands, the audience shouted Less! Less! Less! and now he's being tried for hate speech/racism etc etc.
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Will he be convicted? What is the penalty?
 
We got this guy, Mr Kaczynski
jaroslaw_kaczynski_640x0_rozmiar-niestandardowy.jpg


In 2015 his party won presidential and parliamentary elections. He's very right of center, his famous quote from the campaign was that we must stop the immigrants flood to Europe because they bring diseases. Yep, simple people listen to that kind of crap, they're scared and they vote.
They pass the bill to give extra cash benefit for every second or more child in the family while overdebting the budget (it's not yet very obvious in numbers but it will be in a year or two).
But simple people love it and seeing what's happening in todays world it's probably two terms for them at the top for something new and credible to appear and make a change.

What's next? I hear in December there's election in Austria where there's far-right (almost "nazi") candidate growing after Brexit and now Trump, a constitutional referendum in Italy also on December date can make the Italian government fall and create further instability in the EU. In May there's presidential election in France where Mrs. Le Pen is going to get strong and in autumn 2017 it's German federal election where there is strong upward move from right-wing populists from Alternative for Germany party.

It could all easily fall one by one. After Trump, it's a trend alright.
Where would it get us?
 
tmtk
We got this guy, Mr Kaczynski

In 2015 his party won presidential and parliamentary elections. He's very right of center, his famous quote from the campaign was that we must stop the immigrants flood to Europe because they bring diseases. Yep, simple people listen to that kind of crap, they're scared and they vote.
They pass the bill to give extra cash benefit for every second or more child in the family while overdebting the budget (it's not yet very obvious in numbers but it will be in a year or two).
But simple people love it and seeing what's happening in todays world it's probably two terms for them at the top for something new and credible to appear and make a change.

What's next? I hear in December there's election in Austria where there's far-right (almost "nazi") candidate growing after Brexit and now Trump, a constitutional referendum in Italy also on December date can make the Italian government fall and create further instability in the EU. In May there's presidential election in France where Mrs. Le Pen is going to get strong and in autumn 2017 it's German federal election where there is strong upward move from right-wing populists from Alternative for Germany party.

It could all easily fall one by one. After Trump, it's a trend alright.
Where would it get us?
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I found this interesting article on Mr Kaczynski: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ght-its-allies-for-sovereignty-kaczynski-says
488x-1.jpg

Jaroslaw Kaczynski

Photographer: Janek Skarzynski/AFP via Getty Images

RT summarizes populist movements around Europe.
 
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We have Pauline Hanson:

Pauline_Hanson_%28438351804%29_%28cropped%29.jpg


She's the personification of every negative stereotype about Australians - a bogan who runs a fish and chip shop in Queensland, and is most notorious for her "please explain?" response during an interview in the 1990s. After losing office, she made a comeback last year, and her maiden speech to the Senate was almost identical to the one she made twenty years ago, but with "Asians" changed to "Muslims". So far, she's managed to appoint a senator with a larceny charge to his name, demand a royal commission into Islam, and call for the national broadcaster to be replaced with the "Patriotic Broadcasting Channel" to spew for pro-government and anti-Islam propaganda.

Dennisch
Not a bad politician, but his ideas can rival Trump’s.
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So can his hair.
 
Dennisch
No idea, as the details coming out are all vague. He'll probably be fined at worst.
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Article by Douglas Murray.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9253/europe-blasphemy-courts

"Whether or not one feels any support for Wilders's sentiments is not in fact the point in this case. The point is that by prosecuting someone for saying what he said, the courts in Holland are effectively ruling that there is only one correct answer to the question Wilders asked. They are saying that if someone asks you whether you would like more Moroccans or fewer, people must always answer "more," or they will be committing a crime. What kind of way is that to order a public debate on immigration or anything else?"
 
Since it seems that there are a lot of hated populists out there. This guy is one of America's most popular populists, and having met him, is a fairly down to earth dude.
Wesley_Crusher,_late_2364.jpg

Kiddo Crusher himself, Wil Wheaton is a self professed populist.

Personally, in theory I am all for populism, in practice I think it would fall flat on its face. Just like direct democracy, it requires knowledge in the system and a motivation to participate. This was one of the most controversial and contentious election cycles in the US that I certainly can remember, and I've been through a few. Given the significance of this election the turn out was still less than 50% of those registered to vote. To be effective, I imagine you would certainly want a far more informed and active population.
 
Sanji Himura
This is from someone who all but kissed the ring of Hillary after he had the nomination taken away from him? Excuse me....
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Given the mysterious deaths of so many Clinton detractors....
Truthfully, I think he did it to try and get some of the agendas he was pursuing pushed through. Not that I agree with it, but I know it had something to do with it.
 
Dennisch
If Bernie is smart he should have a couple of chats with the Donald.
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That would be smart as I think Trump would probably be open to some of Bernie's agenda but I think Bernie can't stand the POTUS elect and wouldn't set foot in the same room as him for all the tie dyed shirts in Washington.
 
EDIT: I apologize beforehand for the rant if it doesn't fit the thread.
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I don't know what definition of populism we are using here.

Here in Argentina, populism is mixed up with "demagogy" all the time. Personally I consider our current president to be a demagogue:

mauricio-macri-presidente-2135291w620.jpg


He's a right-wing politician. He has said things along the like of "homosexuality is a disease", "I wouldn't be proud of having a gay son", and my favorite lately, "every woman likes compliments, even ones such as "what a nice ass you got there"".

I believe he is a populist because he lied his way to presidency with campaign promises he was never intending to keep, but did so to appeal to the masses. He criticized his opponent in the presidential debate with meaningful words such as "you look like a panelist from 678" (back then, a program that heavily defended the government and criticized the opposition, not without arguments though).

He has constructed a persona of being a loving family man, constantly appearing in photographs with his daughter and wife. Always making (bad) jokes, always saying everything will go right, but no arguments. The people will naturally defend him with things like "he is a millionaire, he doesn't need to rob the country!" or "he needs more time".

Now, the media likes to call the previous presidents "populists", but what they tend to overlook is that people didn't vote them on lies alone, they actually did some meaningful things for the country. This guy has yet to do anything meaningful (well, meaningfully good), in my opinion.

Oh, and the media loves kissing his ass to boot while trashing the last government every single day.

And he is a good friend of Trump (just skip to 0:16, everything else is in Spanish).
 
Patrick J Buchanan is a bright, funny guy, and articulate about his favorite subjects.

http://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/populist-nationalist-tide-rolls-on/
Not only is the Cold War over, the post-Cold War is over. We are living in a changed and changing world. Regimes are falling. Old parties are dying, new parties rising. Old allegiances are fraying, and old allies drifting away.

The forces of nationalism and populism have been unleashed all over the West and all over the world. There is no going back.

Yet U.S. policy seems set in concrete by war guarantees and treaty commitments dating back to the time of Truman and Stalin and Ike and John Foster Dulles.

America emerged from the Cold War, a quarter century ago, as the sole superpower. Yet, it seems clear that we are not today so dominant a nation as we were in 1989 and 1991.

We have great rivals and adversaries. We are deeper in debt. We are more divided. We’ve fought wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen that availed us nothing. What we had, we kicked away.

America is at a plastic moment in history.
 
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Neoliberal establishment politicians are going to have to start taking the real issues with the status quo seriously or more and more countries will be lost to the death spiral of hard right politics and ethnic nationalism. Right now the only people actually saying something is wrong are ethnic nationalists who blame the problem on immigration and multiculturalism under the facade of a loss of sovereignty and/or cultural identity. The most frustrating part is Clinton didn't have to actually do anything. She'd have been identical to Obama on policy, but she couldn't even be bothered to lie like he did. "Hope and Change" and "Yes we Can!" vs. "I'm with Her". Disgusting and utterly negligent.

They were gift wrapped Sanders on a silver platter, a way for them to tap into the righteous anger people have with the status quo in a way that actually helps working people without ethnic nationalism. Brexit and Trump both happened because establishment media and politicians don't know or don't talk about how bad things are for working class people. They know GDP is up and unemployment is down compared to pre-2008 levels, and declare that "America is already great!". Except that well paid union jobs in manufacturing are gone and now those people work at Wal-Mart or drive an Uber for minimum wage. All the economic growth is is Finance and Tech, fields with much higher barriers to entry.

______________

It may already be too late. Brexit and Trump are the kind of decisions that beget themselves. After Brexit we saw anger about the British economy being "punished" as (food and clothing) import prices rose and the pound fell. Trump announced today that he Saved 1000 Jerbs, which sounds great until you read between the lines. He promised tax cuts to the company, they're still moving 1000 jobs to Mexico (instead of 2000), and the union wasn't part of negotiations. Net result is the company gets public money, and wage cuts are almost assuredly coming. The factory owners double dip and the working class gets swindled at both ends.

This is going to happen all through his presidency, Trump will throw public money at manufacturers to stay in America (or rather, to lay off half as many people as initially planned), and undermine organized labour leading to wage cuts. It will be a race to the bottom for the workers and defeat the purpose of saving manufacturing in the first place. Trump will spend 4 years "winning" and "making great deals" while working people get squeezed more and more while corporate profits rise and they get public kickbacks. What will happen if the working class are worse off than today after 4 years of Trump "winning" and making "great deals"?
 
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Joel
Neoliberal establishment politicians are going to have to start taking the real issues with the status quo seriously or more and more countries will be lost to the death spiral of hard right politics and ethnic nationalism. Right now the only people actually saying something is wrong are ethnic nationalists who blame the problem on immigration and multiculturalism under the facade of a loss of sovereignty and/or cultural identity. The most frustrating part is Clinton didn't have to actually do anything. She'd have been identical to Obama on policy, but she couldn't even be bothered to lie like he did. "Hope and Change" and "Yes we Can!" vs. "I'm with Her". Disgusting and utterly negligent.

They were gift wrapped Sanders on a silver platter, a way for them to tap into the righteous anger people have with the status quo in a way that actually helps working people without ethnic nationalism. Brexit and Trump both happened because establishment media and politicians don't know or don't talk about how bad things are for working class people. They know GDP is up and unemployment is down compared to pre-2008 levels, and declare that "America is already great!". Except that well paid union jobs in manufacturing are gone and now those people work at Wal-Mart or drive an Uber for minimum wage. All the economic growth is is Finance and Tech, fields with much higher barriers to entry.

______________

It may already be too late. Brexit and Trump are the kind of decisions that beget themselves. After Brexit we saw anger about the British economy being "punished" as (food and clothing) import prices rose and the pound fell. Trump announced today that he Saved 1000 Jerbs, which sounds great until you read between the lines. He promised tax cuts to the company, they're still moving 1000 jobs to Mexico (instead of 2000), and the union wasn't part of negotiations. Net result is the company gets public money, and wage cuts are almost assuredly coming. The factory owners double dip and the working class gets swindled at both ends.

This is going to happen all through his presidency, Trump will throw public money at manufacturers to stay in America (or rather, to lay off half as many people as initially planned), and undermine organized labour leading to wage cuts. It will be a race to the bottom for the workers and defeat the purpose of saving manufacturing in the first place. Trump will spend 4 years "winning" and "making great deals" while working people get squeezed more and more and corporate profits rise and they get public kickbacks. What will happen if the working class are worse off than today after 4 years of Trump "winning" and making "great deals"?
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Seems like you have the world's first crystal ball. What are the winning Lotto 6/49 numbers next week?
 
Johnnypenso
Seems like you have the world's first crystal ball. What are the winning Lotto 6/49 numbers next week?
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It's too blurry to see lottery numbers (it's not an HD crystal ball unfortunately). I'm looking at 2020 right now and the Leafs still haven't made the playoffs!

Seriously though, we just have a fundamentally different view of Trump and his policies and I don't pretend to be anything other than a dude writing on an internet board. I just don't see anything about Trump's platform or actions since winning the election that convinces me he will help working people and I see a lot that makes me think he's going to make things worse.
 
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Joel
It's too blurry to see lottery numbers (it's not an HD crystal ball unfortunately). I'm looking at 2020 right now and the Leafs still haven't made the playoffs!

Seriously though, we just have a fundamentally different view of Trump and his policies and I don't pretend to be anything other than a dude writing on an internet board. I just don't see anything about Trump's platform or actions since winning the election that convinces me he will help working people and I see a lot that makes me think he's going to make things worse.
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I don't really have any view of his policies because he hasn't done anything yet. He's not the POTUS for a couple of months. The campaign and pre-inauguration rhetoric will be out the window and we'll see what happens when the rubber hits the road.
 

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