The Road Test Thread

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I can't find where, but I remember we discussed the idea somewhere on the forums. And I think we nixed it because the idea of having people responsible for actually going out and doing road tests would be too big a chore for e-people who also have an IRL life.
 
2009 Honda Civic Si Coupe
Engine: I-4 2.0L N/A
Power: 197hp @ 7,800RPM
Torque: 139lb.ft. @ 6,100RPM
Colour: Taffeta White
Interior: Black
Economy: 19/28mpg
Price as tested: $22,815

The salesmen that went with us was one of the coolest guys I've ever had try to sell me a car, he knew all the places to take us for a proper road test. He was also very knowledgeable about cars in general and you could tell he had a passion for them. This was unlike the Subaru salesman who basically studied the fact sheet on the car but had limited knowledge outside that.

Before we went for a drive the salesman whom I will call "Ron" for the remainder of this write up, went over the car with us in great detail. He was a fairly tall guy and he had Nick and I sit in the back seat and he adjusted the front seats to his driving position or sitting position. We were both very comfortable in the back seat with plenty of leg room, which is odd for a coupe. He also brought out some junk from inside the dealer to show us how big the boot was, it was pretty impressive too.

I took the reigns of the car first since Nick had driven the other two vehicles first. The first thing I noticed was that the clutch was very light and easy to operate, the only downfall was that I had to rev the living piss out of the car to get it going. Catch RPM's were around 3,000, which is odd for me because I'm used to driving big torquey SOB's with a manual trans in them. It never felt like it wanted to stall though, unlike the WRX which felt like it was going to stall if I sneezed.

Ron first took me down some twisty back roads and told me to hit it because he wanted me to feel the Vehicle Stability Assist kick in. You could feel it working but it didn't detract from the sportiness of the car, it helped reduce understeer and made the car feel extremely planted in the corners.

He then had me pull into a empty parking lot and told me to turn the wheel hard to the left and punch it because he wanted me to feel the grip and to experience the turning radius. I held the circle at 15-20mph (it seemed fast at the time), you could feel the VSA kick it but once again it allowed for a flawess "donut" as he put it. The limited slip probably helped out here too.

He then took me out to a long freeway on ramp and told me to test the acceleration, it wasn't blisteringly quick but was quick enough to wear you could get into trouble if you didn't watch yourself. Honda claims a 0-60 time of 6.7 seconds although Motor Trend claims as low as 6.3 second. I would say with me driving it was probably 7 seconds or so, although I didn't really time it. There wasn't really any torque steer (I guess you need torque in the first place :lol: )

On the freeway the car rode nicely and wasn't terribly loud, at least not for a small car. I could easily take a long trip in it and not feel exhausted at the end. The only slight issue was the racing seats were a bit weird to get used to. They weren't uncomfortable at all just not something I'm accustom to sitting in.

After I got off the freeway Ron took me down a very bumpy road to see how the car felt. I was surprised, even with a sport suspension it took the bumps nicely and didn't shatter my spine. That alone was pretty impressive as well. The was a bit of bump steer though, but I think all cars have that.

Nick took over after me and Ron had him run pretty much the same route. Nick came to pretty much the same conclusion as me, except he wasn't a huge fan of the shifter, he said the throws were a bit to short for city driving and that the actual shaft was girthy enough (get your mind out of the gutter :D). Other than that we both loved the car and I could see where it would be a decent daily driver and an excellent track vehicle. Nick is actually considering buying one now just based on that test drive alone.

Joey:👍
Nick:👍
 
Is this the same guy that has the GTI? It seems that the Civic Si and the GTI are very comparable vehicles. And the really funny thing is that I could probably write the same review (almost word for word) about the GTI.
 
Is this the same guy that has the GTI? It seems that the Civic Si and the GTI are very comparable vehicles. And the really funny thing is that I could probably write the same review (almost word for word) about the GTI.

Nope, Nick owns a 2003 Focus. He used to own an SVT Focus and said the Si drove similar to it.
 
You know, the dark side's cookies usually aren't that great.

Do Honda cookies have a perfect cookie dough flavour that will outlive the universe? Or.. does the chocolaty goodness have a gustatory form of VTEC?
 
-> I used to have a very short-lived thread HERE. But too bad, it failed miserably.

-> But I will contribute by posting some recycled drives from the past:

2004 Hummer H2 [Autoshow in Motion 2004, Las Vegas]

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-> I don't know why people likes this truck (especially 'Blingers'). This truck is big, in fact it feels even bigger than the Suburban that I test drove before, and inside it doesn't even feel more spacious than the Scion tC. This truck only excels off-road, but if off-road is you main thing, get either the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (LWB) or a 2005 Nissan Xterra. All this bulk has nothing to do with the space inside the truck in which it small compared to other trucks in its class. Ride quality on road is two points down on the average and visbility although tall, tons of blinds spots lurking around the truck. The truck looks ok, with much of the inspiration comes from the Hummer H1. In fact it has that, "Look I hav a Hammer, juzt like Ahnold!" since the governator endorsed this truck when it came out. I also heared that the gas mileage sucks ('round 9-12 mpg), yeech. But if your looking for macho looks, off-road capable, and macho looking full-size SUV, this is the one for you.

Highs
- 'Governator' looks
- Superb off-road capabilities
- "It's on Midnight Club: DUB edition and NFS: Underground!!"

Lows
- Not for everyday use
- Not as practical as other SUVs
- "Gulp, gulp, gulp on your gas budget, sucka!"

Verdict
- Unless if you have a Toyota Prius as your everyday fleet, than this is a good buy.
 
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2007 Toyota Camry LE
56,XXX Miles

I had the opportunity to drive a 2007 Toyota Camry LE from Grand Rapids, MI to Michigan City, IN and back this evening, and I have to admit, it was a very interesting drive. For some reason, I have an obsession with mid-size sedans. Its absolutely unexplainable. They are, if anything, the most boring and sedate vehicles you can buy... But I love them to pieces. By most accounts, the Toyota Camry is the yardstick by which most of these mid-size sedans are measured. Its the one that sells the most here in the United States, but I can't figure out why.

Full Disclosure: While I do have an overall distaste for an overwhelming number of Toyota products, I've personally had a long history with the brand, having family vehicles from the Toyota brand dating back to the very early '90s... Including my own personal vehicle right now.

In 1995, my Mom made the (at the time) radical decision to buy a brand-new Toyota Camry. One of their special "Value Edition" models, it was a DX with a lot of the popular options from the LE... Which made it otherwise, an LE. Anyway, we drove the hell out of that car. Arguably, it was my "first car" which I drove throughout my drivers training, and beyond, when I had car trouble. The car made it nearly 210,XXX miles before it was totaled in a deer collision, which was very unfortunate. Although I had hated the car for nearly a decade, in its twilight years, I came to love it as the dependable, comfortable, family sedan that it was.

But this new 2007 Camry? What on God's green Earth made them do this to a car that had been as good as that? Looking just at the exterior, its grotesque compared to its predecessors. Bulbous in every dimension, I just can't figure out some of the proportions. Sure, its meant to be "vanilla" in most respects, but it just isn't. Its dumb. The interior is just as much of a disaster. The old 1995 Camry had materials that were much higher in quality, far more resistant to wear and tear, and just flat out looked better. I've heard plenty of complaints about how cheap GM and Chrysler interiors are by comparison to this Toyota, but I just don't get it. Its not that much better, not even in the slightest. Furthermore, the overall layout of the dashboard just didn't feel right. I'm sure all of you have seen the "giant" phones, remotes, and telephones they have for old people? That's what I felt like when using the interior. Knobs, buttons and displays are far too large for regular use for "normal" people. Worse yet, driving at night, all of the dash reflects on the windows. Its a dangerous distraction, one that I can't recall noticing to that effect in any other car I've driven. Furthermore, the seats are terrible. Hard as a rock, impossible to position properly in the front, and dramatically decrease your ability to remain at the helm for lengthy periods of time. The back is a bit better, with plenty of leg room and a comfortable cushion, but I believe this is the first time I can ever recall preferring the seats of our Grand Prix to a newer vehicle.

This is the part where I usually try to talk about some positives with the car. The good news is that the Camry is pretty cheap brand-new, starting just under $20K with a decent set of standard features. Known for its overall reliability, you know that not much is going to go wrong with the car. Ever. The fuel economy isn't bad either, as we used less than a half tank driving at 80+ MPH with the A/C on. As an A --> B vehicle, the Camry is a solid choice when it comes to value for money. They hardly depreciate, and people buy them because they know they're good cars. But in my mind, that doesn't mean much.

Why, for instance, should I feel so disconnected from my car at any given point? I felt as though I was feeding my inputs into the car through some kind of bureaucratic process. It was happy to make a note of my intention, and after 3-6 weeks, it will make a decision as to doing what it wants to do. The electric steering was crap. At low speed, it was assisted too heavily, and I could never gauge where the car was going. At speed, the problems continued, the steering feeling too vague on center to ever drive with less than two hands on the wheel. Worse yet, I felt like the transmission was hunting for the right gear far too often. The kick-down was often out of place, and completely unnecessary. Perhaps there was a problem with the gearbox on this car, I do not know. The suspension was sloppy, and choppy, at best. It was enough to get me a bit car sick when I was forced to ride in the back for a short while. And they call this a family car?


In a world of Ford Fusions, Chevrolet Malibus, and Hyundai Sonatas, this car just does not make sense. The competition is so much better, in almost every measurable way, and yet, Toyota sells a kazillion of these every year. It just seems so incredibly wrong that this is considered a "good car" by so many when it clearly is not. Even at the sub $20K MSRP, its still in a neighborhood where value-priced models like the Fusion SE make more sense. Not just in looks, comfort or driving dynamics, but for the fact that buying the obviously better car means that other people are going to be forced to copy the better car.

Two massive thumbs down, Toyota.

2007 Toyota Camry LE: 5.0/10
At least its reliable transportation, right?
 
My only experience with the last few generations of Camry (including the one above) is sitting in the back of Dubai taxis. Trust me, the Camry is even worse driven by someone who barely knows how to drive...
 
My take is that the Camry (and most Toyotas) are bandwagon-mobiles. They ride pretty heavily on reputation. And since they have a reputation for being good, reliable transport, people are going to buy them. And they probably pick them up because "well, it's better than the last Toyota I had. I'll take it. And I know I don't have to look at any other cars because Toyotas are the best around." I have a friend in college whose family only ever buys Toyotas and he thinks they're brilliant cars simply because they get you where you want to go. I didn't know so many cars had problems with that...

Possibly this is why the Venza isn't selling at all? I think it almost sounds like Toyota is following in the course of the American manufacturers and selling with badge alone. Which will certainly come back to bite them in the future as we've seen.

I had a pretty brief experience with a V6 Camry last summer. About all I remember from that was the transmission shifting up to 4th every time I stopped, even though I was in manual mode. :odd:
 
Well, it doesn't help that the Venza just looks so strange, and furthermore, caters to such a narrow market in the first place. Seeing as how it isn't a "Camry Wagon," and that it certainly isn't big enough to be a CUV, what is it? Its kinda like the Japanese version of the R-Class.

I dunno. I kinda like the Venza. I'd have to drive one, and I'd assume its better than the base Camry, but based on just climbing around in it and such... Its a brilliant car. Everything is easily accessible, everything looks nice and appears to be in the right spot, and the prices aren't half bad either. In total honesty, the xA and the Venza are the only Toyotas I'd really consider buying at the moment.
 
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