The thing that updates cannot fix. What is the future for GT?

[Samus]

Not much needs to change in the core gameplay areas for me, they've got that pretty much nailed, or at least they will have with a new console with more RAM. Everything they have now at a solid 60fps looking nice, great physics and probably more cars on the track.

What the game series desperately needs is an involving, in depth offline single player experience. Many games have already been mentioned that don't live up to GT5 in the core gameplay elements but have exciting game modes and features, lively careers that see you forging a path forward, making you feel like the driver. GT5 doesn't do that, it just says "Here are 100 odd events, crack on with them and when you've finished one move onto the next, then you're done."

So yes, in the next GT game I really need to see a back to the drawing board approach to the single player game, really bring it alive and exciting, as well as being long. I really don't think I can take another game with a sterile, soulless career mode driving the same cars and the same tracks in the same named races as GT1 and GT2.

The online experience also needs updating, right now you've basically got 'go race'. That's it. There are no community features, no leaderboards, no matchmaking, again it's soulless and pretty dull in terms of interface and options.

 

[Odyofil]

Shift? i never played any game like this ****** game, ****test **** of all times, the game's physics are insane, riddiculous, its not like driving a car, its driving a boat on water, and impossible to play on chase camera, the phsics changing by the camera mode, i hate shift and shift2, there are a baddest game of sims.

 

[Illogical]

I don't understand why you guys think your so thrown by fps.

Your TV only displays 1080p at 24fps. Being the standard I don't understand where your going to feel a difference.

NFS:Shift was absolute garbage. I gave it away, what an awful game. I do still play GRID through, shame it never got a sequel.

 

[Tornado]

Your TV only displays 1080p at 24fps. Being the standard I don't understand where your going to feel a difference.

Except all 1080p TVs are perfectly capable of displaying 1080p at 60 FPS, and the 1080p standard actually implies 1920x1080@60FPS (or 1920x1080@50FPS) when the framerate is not specified.

A TV supporting 3:2 pulldown does not mean that the TV is incapable of displaying refresh rates higher than 24hz.

 

[Zevious Z]

I don't understand why you guys think your so thrown by fps.

Your TV only displays 1080p at 24fps. Being the standard I don't understand where your going to feel a difference.

NFS:Shift was absolute garbage. I gave it away, what an awful game. I do still play GRID through, shame it never got a sequel.

lol. Um, no. Where did you ever get the idea that 1080 can only be displayed at 24fps? Oh wait, I know - movies are usually filmed at that framerate. That has nothing to do with games and there is no such limitation on what framerate an HD TV can display. The difference between 60 and 30fps is highly noticeable...

 

[novcze]

I don't understand why you guys think your so thrown by fps.

Your TV only displays 1080p at 24fps. Being the standard I don't understand where your going to feel a difference.

Yeah sure, that's why my TV says 1080p/60hz when I start GT5.

 

[Zevious Z]

... lively careers that see you forging a path forward, making you feel like the driver...

oh god please no. No Drift2 style "careers" that have you communicating with an annoying manager as you race against a bunch of "arch rivals." None of those career paths has made me feel like more of a driver than GT5. Gran Turismo is a sand box. Theres lots of different ways to enjoy it and its got a unique style. I see no need to make it more like other games (most of which are not nearly as enjoyable anyway.)

And please please please NO HIP HOP STREET RACING garbage! ick...

 

[Zevious Z]

Yeah sure, that's why my TV says 1080p/60hz when I start GT5.

well, refresh rate (60hz) and framerate are different things actually. In fact its the "conflict" between refresh rate and framerate that cuases screen tearing. But even though a TV may not be able to actually refresh the screen more than 60 times per second, there are still advantages to higher framerates - its nice to have headroom so things don't fall apart when theres lots of demands placed on the cpu...

 

[Samus]

oh god please no. No Drift2 style "careers" that have you communicating with an annoying manager as you race against a bunch of "arch rivals." None of those career paths has made me feel like more of a driver than GT5. Gran Turismo is a sand box. Theres lots of different ways to enjoy it and its got a unique style. I see no need to make it more like other games (most of which are not nearly as enjoyable anyway.)

And please please please NO HIP HOP STREET RACING garbage! ick...

No none of that garbage but just a professional, progressive career that you actually feel like you're moving through logically rather than just jumping into a random event after random event.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Eew.. 30 fps racing game.. so disgusting.
Even 60 fps is actualy not enough for me, but just because most LCD TV runs at 60 hz so that is the standard right now. 100/120fps will be much much better for a racing game.
Top Gear 2 on SNES was also at 60 fps.

So you can tell the difference between 60 and 100 or 120fps? Righttttt.

 

[Zevious Z]

No none of that garbage but just a professional, progressive career that you actually feel like you're moving through logically rather than just jumping into a random event after random event.

I know what you mean. I really just don't miss that in GT5. I mean the GT games have always been about the cars and the experience of exploring them and "playing" with them. Its not about being a race car driver - its about being a car lover. The events are really just an excuse to run all sorts of different cars under different conditions...

 

[Zevious Z]

So you can tell the difference between 60 and 100 or 120fps? Righttttt.

not so much. Not nearly like the difference between 30 and 60. 60fps seems to be sort of a magic number. Higher than that can be noticeable though under some circumstances...

 

[37kazzmark]

I always find myself lost in GT5 are you kidding me? buy a racing wheel and build a racing rig, there's is your immursion.

 

[novcze]

well, refresh rate (60hz) and framerate are different things actually. In fact its the "conflict" between refresh rate and framerate that cuases screen tearing.

they are, but GT5 is also 60 fps and screen tearing occurs when PS3 can't compute whole next frame in time to display, so you see half of new frame and half of old frame (e.g.), do some research pls.

When my TV is receiving 24 fps it says 24hz.

 

[avens]

not so much. Not nearly like the difference between 30 and 60. 60fps seems to be sort of a magic number. Higher than that can be noticeable though under some circumstances...

not at all. You can easily distinguish the difference between 30, 60, 120 and 240 fps, and even more.
Problem is that, as far as I know, there isn't a single console game that runs at 120 fps.

ofc there are some factors to consider, such as hz (screen tearing, smoothness and such) and motion blur, or you could go a bit further and test input lag when using a crt screen, changing the update rate of the game's physics and hardware inputs used, but in the end my advice is to just try it on a pc game.

Here's a pretty good article to achieve the most smooth gaming experience as possible, in a game that can be (almost) fully adjusted and that you can (almost) play it for free.
http://www.quakeworld.nu/blogs/436/140/

edit: or if you want an easier example, just play live for speed (f2p demo) with 120fps and 120hz or more, hopefully with a crt screen.

 

[Zevious Z]

they are, but GT5 is also 60 fps and screen tearing occurs when PS3 can't compute whole next frame in time to display, so you see half of new frame and half of old frame (e.g.), do some research pls.

When my TV is receiving 24 fps it says 24hz.

yeah. You do some research ok? GT5 doesn't run at a perfect 60fps at all times. Thus when its framerate drops from 60 to something lower like say 50 you'll get screen tearing. If GT5 had v-sync enabled, then the framerate would be cut to 30 if it dropped below 60 and the screen tearing would be eliminated.

If your TV is saying its refreshing at 24hz while running GT5 theres a problem...

 

[Zevious Z]

not at all. You can easily distinguish the difference between 30, 60, 120 and 240 fps, and even more.
Problem is that, as far as I know, there isn't a single console game that runs at 120 fps.

ofc there are some factors to consider, such as hz (screen tearing, smoothness and such) and motion blur, or you could go a bit further and test input lag when using a crt screen, changing the update rate of the game's physics and hardware inputs used, but in the end my advice is to just try it on a pc game.

Here's a pretty good article to achieve the most smooth gaming experience as possible, in a game that can be (almost) fully adjusted and that you can (almost) play it for free.
http://www.quakeworld.nu/blogs/436/140/

I've done lots of gaming at 120fps and I don't notice the same difference as I do between 60 and 30fps. I didn't say its NOT noticeable though...just doesn't seem as significant to me as the 60/30 divide...

 

[avens]

I'm only saying that 120fps (and more) always makes a noticeable difference, specially if paired with a crt screen.
I was replying to that part of your post.

maybe I should have quoted this guy instead of your post.

So you can tell the difference between 60 and 100 or 120fps? Righttttt.

on the other hand console gaming will never have racing games that can be played with 120 fps, because in a console that means running the game in a much lower quality.
There are more issues as well such as the current state of tv screens (none can deliver 120 "active"/real hz) and that input lag will get even more noticeable, but all of them can be solved nowadays and will probably be fixed for the masses in a couple of years. The thing is the industry just prefers running the game with overall better graphics than with more fps or more resolution.

 

[AMS97F1]

I dont know why people are talking about framerate. The human eye cant tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Anyone who can is talking BS.

 

[Spagetti69]

I dont know why people are talking about framerate. The human eye cant tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Anyone who can is talking BS.

Oh really. What utter nonsense you speak off.

If it can't be noticed why do they try to do 60FPS.? Why even bother.

 

[avens]

I dont know why people are talking about framerate. The human eye cant tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Anyone who can is talking BS.

here's where I wanted to go. That statement is BS, and it mostly has to do with motion blur in movies.

The better way to end that argument is to try a game with 120 fps or more, and hopefully without an awful 60hz lcd screen.
You'll realize you can notice more than 200fps, and if you go berserk on it you'll start finding that movies (24fps with motion blur) actually look choppy and that gt5 has a considerable amount of input lag when using a wireless ds3.

 

[Zevious Z]

I dont know why people are talking about framerate. The human eye cant tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Anyone who can is talking BS.

Sorry but you are completely mistaken.

 

[Tornado]

I dont know why people are talking about framerate. The human eye cant tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Anyone who can is talking BS.

If only someone had posted videos detailing the differences between 30 FPS and 60 FPS that show how silly that statement is.

 

[Samus]

I dont know why people are talking about framerate. The human eye cant tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Anyone who can is talking BS.

Read this:
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

 

[novcze]

yeah. You do some research ok? GT5 doesn't run at a perfect 60fps at all times. Thus when its framerate drops from 60 to something lower like say 50 you'll get screen tearing. If GT5 had v-sync enabled, then the framerate would be cut to 30 if it dropped below 60 and the screen tearing would be eliminated.

If your TV is saying its refreshing at 24hz while running GT5 theres a problem...

I see, you're saying same thing as me just other way around, maybe translation problem, sorry for that.
I thought you're the one who came up with 24fps thing, so I was replying in that manner.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I really don't think you can effectively perceive any framerate higher than 60hz. I mean 30fps -> to 60fps is noticeable, but even that is on a subconscious level for the average person. Your brain cannot process that much information that quickly for 120hz or higher. There might be an infinitesimal perception of it, but I can't imagine it ever being worth it for the massive memory usage it would require.

By the way, any youtube videos comparing 30fps to 60fps are completely useless, youtube automatically downscales all videos above 30fps to 30fps. Unless they have changed things in recent times. The only 60fps streaming service I know of is gamersyde.

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_gran_turismo_5_tgs_rain_gameplay_dark_-17179_en.html

Compared to youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7fyaMqGcG0

Bring up both in your browser and observe the difference. It is definitely noticeable.

 

[Christoforo]

http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

And a great quote from that very site:

No way should films and TV be shot at 30fps. Unless you want No Country for Old Men to look like Days of Our Lives.

The goal of motion pictures is not to recreate reality, it's not even to show reality. I want to create a little psychic link between you and my pictures. I want to suck you into the world of the story, suspend your disbelief and make you forget about yourself and your life and just be in the moment of the film.

By not showing enough visual information, we force the brain into filling in the gaps... it draws you in even more. It's part of how you let go to the point where you can laugh or cry or feel tense or afraid or elated.

Now does this hold true for games too? I think it does. Perhaps not as much, but I think it does. I guess, in a way, I feel Gran Turismo does not do a good enough job of 'suspending disbelief.'

Have you ever guys watched a film on one of those TV's that has a mega-frame rate mode? It's surreal and terrible at the same time. I remember watching black hawk down on at 60fps (possibly higher) and everything that was so convincing about the original film just looked fake and amateur at 60fps. It was exactly the same film, but all of the magic is gone.

 

[Illogical]

lol. Um, no. Where did you ever get the idea that 1080 can only be displayed at 24fps? Oh wait, I know - movies are usually filmed at that framerate. That has nothing to do with games and there is no such limitation on what framerate an HD TV can display. The difference between 60 and 30fps is highly noticeable...

My DLP is from 2007, before the standards were raised. So I really only have a max of 1080p@24Hz. My firmware won't display it any higher as far as I know. Kind of a bummer there. Now I feel like I'm missing out. At least I can play in 3D (at 720p)

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Whoa...hold on. If your MAX refresh rate is 24hz, wouldn't that make 3d mode 12hz?? Unless DLP's are able to do something different? Doesn't a 3D TV alternate between left and right eye each frame effectively cutting the rate in half? Unless it staggers the image...hmmm now there's an idea.