The tortoise and the hare - endurance daily

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IronVortex75

IronVortex75

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Hi all. I love endurance racing as it brings in many strategic options other than 'maximum attack'. Yesterday i had some really interesting Sport races in Gr3 at Interlagos.

There seems to be 2 main options as to race approach - one pitstop or no pitstop. The first one is a balancing act of when to dial the fuel flow and by how much - how hard do you push and when? Do you go flat out and take a long pitstop or find a middle ground?

The second is pretty much run lean and smooth the whole way and try to hit target laptimes that are slower but will negate the fact you are not running the car at optimal speeds and need a pitstop.

I really enjoy playing 'the tortoise' - had a good race yesterday where with 1 lap to go i thought i was actually going to win and it was quite exciting :-) came a close 3rd in the end behind a 'hare' and another tortoise who turned his boost up to pass me (rookie error by me - should have seen it coming).

Whats your philosophy and approach to enduro? What works best for you?
 
if you change tires, pits cost around 25 seconds, plus you have to repass the slow traffic.
Not taking a pit stop is quicker in 10 lap race.

You have options, lean fuel is probably the worst, staying in slip stream and short shifting works best and maintains good lap times.

If you're a car whore, pick the most frugal car to use and you will have bigger advantage.
 
Hard work keeping it clean when you're surrounded by people who are taking a pit stop and running full power though.

I usually go for the alfa as its lightest and will do a 10 lap on map 4. Sometimes has enough left to drop to full power for the last few bends.
 
In Gr.3 race at Brands Hatch I was using the GTR and doing exceptionally well playing the 'tortoise', going from 15th to 3rd (and yes, I did qualify properly). However in Gr.4 races I prefer to pit because I like using FF cars (Megane and TT Cup). So it all depends on the car and track, as well as what position you are in - you might want to stop if you are held up behind people, or go the distance if you are starting at the back so you can try and drive defensively to keep your position against faster guys who pitted at the end.
 
Nice thread title:cheers:

The other day at Brands Hatch I had this dilemma. In 4th, took a pit stop for fuel at lap 8/(10?). Came out 6th and finished as such. Got kinda pissed because I didn't change tires and my refuel was exact (ended with 0.0 laps left). Then I watched the replay and noticed no one around me took a pit stop. Duh...

I guess the best plan is to always try to make it without a pit stop? Idk because its a tough decision given RH tires which dont incentivize a stop but about 8 laps of fuel in a 10 lap race.

Anyways.. I raced again but on Fuel=2-3 and didnt pit. I was able to maintain position throughout the race. The most competitive trick was choosing the right car i think. My 911 RSR had a hell of time being a high-rev-o-phile but switched to something like the BMW (low-rev torque monster) and made fuel conservation much easier.

I like the incentive to switch cars for particular race types and distances. Could be one way to fix the inevitable full grids of FOTW cars.
 
My strategy depends on the competition. If I see people hammer down on maximum fuel flow, then I play the tortoise. But if it seems to be smart competitors that knows how to change fuel flow, then I often time the pit to when I get stuck behind an equal driver.

I never change tyre. Waste of time.
 
I guess it partly depends where you start on the grid... if you are on the front row the 'conservative' option might be to go fast, track the leader and do what they do :-) or if you have amazing speed over 1 lap, use your advantage if you get clear air.
 
Havent tried the no stop yet, usually just full power to around lap 4-5-6 depending on track position and competition. Then full power till the end.
 
Must try out the tortoise at some point.

Just did race C - didn't qualify, so starting from the back - and managed to stay out of trouble for the first half of the race (6th at this point). And then I pitted (was just catching up with an angry looking mob)... came out in 12th, then got rammed by a slower driver, which put me back in the clutches of another person who used me as a break, which put me into the middle of fights between those who pitted a lap after me etc... Finished in 14.

Then went and did the Samba Bus race and had a ball.
 
I love the strategic element too! I drove the Interlagos race in a GT-R earlier, and went for a no-stop as didn't have the pace to match the top qualifiers. Ended up 3rd from 12th, but jumping around fuel maps 1,2 and 3 left me with excess fuel! Tried again just now after improving to 10th on the grid. To begin with was beaten up (as usual) by people using me as a brake and/or guardrail, divebombing etc. Dropped to 12th but did my best to keep it clean as others made mistakes leaving me in 7th when it all calmed down. Stayed on fuel map 1 all the way and was 2nd after the pit stops. As lap 9 started I overtook the leading RSR which must have been on fumes it was going so slow. The last 2 laps were just me sweating (not often I'm in contention for a win!), short-shifting to account for my tyres being in tatters, and desperately trying to be smooth. Won by 5 seconds in the end.

What a game!
 
Yes agree loving the variables this brings. And a good excuse to try my pretty Alfa out for a tortoise attempt!
 
I got some second places, almost first, going with engine map 1 for the 2 first straights. 2 for the uphill, 4 onwards. That’s just for the first lap, when people are crazy and tend to think that you don’t know what you’re doing if you’re going slow, so they push you out of the track.
Keep the engine at 4 for the rest of the race.
1 at the last 2 straights of the race.
No stop needed.

You gotta be mindful of the people that are going to overtake you. Don’t be too aggressive, because they will pit.
 
I usually like to opt for no pit stop. It worked pretty well at Suzuka over the weekend.
 
Best option, if you can do it and the person in front is not aware of you trying to do it is to go in second place, really close to the leader while short shifting and using fuel map 2 in the straights. This way you save a good amount of fuel which means your pit stop will be faster (maybe 2-5 sec). Then after you come out in the lead, you only have to pull away and keep that advantage.

Of course this is useless if you can't keep with the leader or if he's aware of your strategy and changes his own (by slowing down a bit or let you pass).
 
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This is great, nice spread of tactics and some stuff for me try out tonight.
 
I've seen some of these races on video, and l must say it confuses me when l watch people drive through to (for example) lap 7 in a 10 lap race.

At the end of the day your challenge is to finish the race in the least amount of time as you can.
Fuel weight and tyre wear do correspond.
So why people go beyond lap 5 is a mystery to me.
 
Tassie_tiger
I've seen some of these races on video, and l must say it confuses me when l watch people drive through to (for example) lap 7 in a 10 lap race.

At the end of the day your challenge is to finish the race in the least amount of time as you can.
Fuel weight and tyre wear do correspond.
So why people go beyond lap 5 is a mystery to me.
Click to expand...

There can be advantages to pitting out of sequence, such as getting a clear track.
 
I understand that concept.

But there isn't a pitwall messaging you when it's the best time to pit for a clear track.
You've essentially no idea, its all guess work.

If you can run 7 laps out of 10, you would be far better off pitting lap 4, undercut the guy with wearing tyres, almost ensure clear track, (or at least easy pickings with slow traffic on bad tyres) and on the last lap track position is king.
6 laps on a lower fuel load is faster than 7 laps on a full tank.

As l say, why people run to lap 7 is beyond me.
 
Tassie_tiger
I understand that concept.

But there isn't a pitwall messaging you when it's the best time to pit for a clear track.
You've essentially no idea, its all guess work.

If you can run 7 laps out of 10, you would be far better off pitting lap 4, undercut the guy with wearing tyres, almost ensure clear track, (or at least easy pickings with slow traffic on bad tyres) and on the last lap track position is king.
6 laps on a lower fuel load is faster than 7 laps on a full tank.

As l say, why people run to lap 7 is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Fresher tyres for the end of the race. Whether it's worth the compromised track position and pitstop time is the question.
 
I had two ideal races in the Gr. 4 at Kyoto Driving Park the other day.

My plan was fuel map 1 the whole way, pit on lap 6 for fuel and tires and go to the end. First race I overtake 1st place and he pits a lap before me. I take my pit stop and come out a few seconds behind but his tires are already a lap worn and badly (Megane FWD). I overtake him before the end of the race and pull away nicely.

Second race I fight to 1st and the cars are spread out into small groups. Cars behind me pit on lap 5 and I keep going increasing the gap so that when I pit I have enough time to stay in the lead. Once I was in 1st I never lost it. Felt like Mercedes F1 when I left the pits still in 1st place.
 
ShiftingGears
Fresher tyres for the end of the race. Whether it's worth the compromised track position and pitstop time is the question.
Click to expand...
Sure, cross the finish line with only 1/3rd worn tyres.
If you haven't made up the deficit from running long on the first stint, bad luck.

And there is no pitstop advantage/disadvantage.
Fuel required is fuel required.
If you need 140 to complete the race, you need to add 40 when you pit, regardless of what your fuel gauge says when you get there.

In these races the best you can do is run the race as fast as you can, including using the best theoretical strategy.
And may the chips fall as they may.
 
Tassie_tiger
In these races the best you can do is run the race as fast as you can, including using the best theoretical strategy.
And may the chips fall as they may.
Click to expand...
Which usually means pitting on Lap 5 or 6 based on cars around you.
 
ScorpionTopaz
Which usually means pitting on Lap 5 or 6 based on cars around you.
Click to expand...
Sure.
My point is though that just because you can run to lap 8, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Have you tried undercutting?
Again, 6 laps on a lighter fuel load is faster than 6 laps with a full tank.

Personally l don't stop in Gr.4 races.
Fuel Map 1 with short shifting, and put up with bad tyres at the end.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
But when it doesn't generally it's because the other guy is simply too good, and he would take the win regardless of my pit strategy.
 
Agreed, it's bad to run too long because that that pitted and have newer tires are gaining on you ever so slightly on every turn.

I will try lighter fuel map if I'm in the lead with a big gap and if I see the gap closing too fast I'll turn it back up. I know Map 1 lasts just under 7 laps in my GT86 so 6 is safe. I pit for 3 laps worth of fuel for a total of 4 laps and I'm good to go. I guess other cars can go 10 laps on Map 1 but I enjoy my Toyota.

Edit: It would be nice to have fuel not be an issue and just tire wear because you can't control how fast or slow that happens. Fuel lasts all 10 laps on Map 1 so don't worry about short shifting, but your tires will be almost gone at 5 laps. So you can baby your tires to get an extra lap out of them or push them hard and risk them being hard to control after only 4 laps.

Personally I wish they were timed races at 20 minutes so it will always be between 20 and 25 minutes. 10 laps depending on the track isn't always a long race.
 
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Cool.

At the end of the day l guess we have to keep things realistic.
And a lot of what l've said depends entirely on your fuel consumption in the race you are competing in.

Sometimes it simply isn't worth it to pit early, with regards to fuel.
But running tyres too long can only hurt your ultimate race pace.
 
I didn’t try short shifting, so I thought of asking you guys.
Is it better to run map 1, short shifting, then to just use another map?
 
Tassie_tiger
Fuel weight and tyre wear do correspond.
So why people go beyond lap 5 is a mystery to me.
Click to expand...

Tassie_tiger
Sure.
My point is though that just because you can run to lap 8, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Have you tried undercutting?
Again, 6 laps on a lighter fuel load is faster than 6 laps with a full tank.
Click to expand...

Is there really any noticeable difference from theoretical lighter fuel load?
 
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