The Tuner Culture: Show vs. Go

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Yes, but I wouldn't consider an autocross car a "track" car. Though I suppose that is begging the question.

I also doubt it's his car since the pic is hosted at cardomain.com. But that's another story entirely.
 
Originally posted by Lt.Doomsday
No Show, all go for me.

i rather have this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2466968692&category=6162

i'd fix up the motor with a nice cam,headers,better cylinder heads then the stock ones and a edelbrock intake with a holley carb{maybe a 600cfm 4bbl} and a nice,deep exhaust.

to top it off i get it repainted white and get some Radial T/A tires for it.
YEAH!!!! 👍 👍

Leave those full wheel covers on, get a push bar for the front, and watch people get out of your way on the highway!! :lol: :lol:

The problem would be getting someone to race you; they'd think you're a cop.
 
please repost the first post but boil it down to its essence. exactly what are you saying. i read the whole thing and it didnt seem coherent to me at all.

as for show vs go. im for go, with as little show as possible. as someone else so eloquently put it "go fast, look stock!)
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
Yes, but I wouldn't consider an autocross car a "track" car. Though I suppose that is begging the question.

I also doubt it's his car since the pic is hosted at cardomain.com. But that's another story entirely.

cage is coming in the mail. i'll need it when i go to gainesville since i'm in a Mod class. didn't need it before when i was still considered street prepared.

and yes..it is my car. paid all of $700 for it :lol:

here's my cardomain site. sign my guestbook! :)
 
Staying in tune with this topic, I don't know if I ever use this analogy, but one of my interests is female fashion. A young lady dressed up in the latest fashion trends fascinates me. And to relate to the "show vs. go" wars, there have been certain fashion trends that have been more of fashion than actual function. One such example has been camoflauge. You may have seen a girl in a cargo skirt (explained later) in camoflauge. One person would probably ask if she is in the service, when of course, she's trying to look good out in the mall. But of course, it's just a fashion trend going. She might not even go to the Army. So a person into function over fashion would say "if you're not in the Army, why are you wearing camoflauge?" Another example is cargo clothes. For guys, cargo pants and shorts. For girls, cargo pants, shorts, skirts, capris, floods, that sort of thing. I mean, I have a pair of cargo jeans myself. Often times when at school, I usually need the extra pockets to carry more stuff. And in the past, I've done that. So much like when someone tells a so-called "ricer" why they have the pointlessly-huge rear wing, you'd ask "why you got that thing?"

On "Sports Car Revolution," Kazzer did make a point about people who mod "Rice Rockets." It is not accurate, but I quote:

"I love skateboarding. What I can't stand are rice rockets."

Then later...

"The car isn't even set-up...it needs more power. These CRX is all blinged-out, but its handling is pretty good. This guy spent $850 dollars on this car...these people have too much time and too much money. And when I say money, I mean MONEY."

The relevance of my fashion talk in regards to show vs. go is basically that some people want show, others want go. Some want fashion, some want function. Where does one draw the line? Basically, I think it's based on taste. You know, a person can see a car as more than a car. If a person mods it out to look like a McLaren F1 GTR, but for the price of a PT Cruiser, that person wants to show that he/she wants to stand out among others. That is fine. If one person has one of the ugliest cars on the road but still have go-fast goodies, that person prefers function over fashion. Some people love their cars so much that they want to mod them so they could LIVE in them if they wanted to. I mean, you can't do that with a Corvette. You can't do that with a Viper. You sure as hell can't do that in an Enzo or Murcielago, so why a cheap economy car? Because they cost less. Because they want to make their cars so that even if they don't seem fast, they want to be. I know I'm going to get blasted for saying that, but there are people who are like the girls I mentioned earlier. If a teen girl likes "Angel" and "Princess" and "Rock Star" stuff, then that lady just wants to show a side of her personality that makes her feel happy. A lot of times, people like to think that these ladies are wanna-be American pop stars, but can't even make it to first base have vocal talent. And the same goes for the compact car community. It's pointless for a small car to go up against a pack of more powerful cars (namely American muscle) looking for a win or compliments. Some people love to mod for personal tastes. And if those tastes include looking fast rather than being, it's okay. It's just like America's trendy teen girls. I think show/fashion is more of a personality thing rather than owning a car too tough to tame. But yet, people like to think that a car was made to handle and perform, not be cars sapped of their performance characteristics. Well, if that was the case, maybe I'll go back to my fashion examples. If function was more important than fashion, then we'd be wearing horrible clothes that do not look stylish at all. And our appearances among others will give them the feeling that... well, we're all the same. If American streets were Corvettes, Mustangs, and Vipers with NOTHING JAPANESE ON THE ROAD, it would be boring, let's be honest. Some people CANNOT STAND Japanese cars, especially the ones that "try to look fast." Hell, I don't think NASCAR stock cars look fast. I don't think the cars represented in the series look fast. So why Japan? Why Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and the rest of them? Cars don't have to be just cars. That's boring. Cars can be promotional and business tools. Look at the cars in the movies. Some cars have features different from others which makes them unique from others. And if a young person gets into cars, you don't give them your 1968 Mustang fastback and expect them to drive it like a Le Mans race car driver. Small and mid-size Japanese cars can be fun. That fun has made car manufacturers consider more youth-oriented cars (like the Scion Xb, and I think that car will make one hell of a tuner car in America).

So to continue the argument, just because a car appears ugly to you and looks like it has pointless body modifications and performance, doesn't mean that it is a jalopy. As I said, if you don't like these Japanese cars, stay away from them. Don't race them in Gran Turismo. Don't buy Super Street or that Hot Rod mag in which the Impreza STi beat a Mustang in stock trim (well, the WRX STi has some function. It beat an American hot rod! So how now?). Maybe I've "grown up" around people who prefer American over Japanese. So, that's why I'm a little prejudiced, but not being on one side altogether. There is a little bad in all of us, and creating this topic, I wanted to explore a long-debated issue. With that said, next reply, please?
 
To add to the "Tuner Culture: Show vs. Go" topic, I was actually successful in saving a sound clip of the "Sports Car Revolution" episode that talks about these tuner cars. By taking this 11025 Hz sound clip (hey, it saves memory, you know), I can successfully take down what Kazzer said about the Honda he drove in the episode from last week. So to add to the topic, here goes. And I quote:

"Sports Car Revolution," March 16th, 2004

Kazzer:
"Well, I'm a huge fan of skateboarding, but I am not a huge fan of rice rockets. I mean, kids with too much time and money on their hands (when I say money, I mean these guys spend MONEY), 90% of these mini bling-blingers are all show and no go. Extravagant wings that don't make sense, the cars not even set up. They don't go fast at all. Now, at first look, this CRX may fall in that category, but a closer attention to detail shows us the owner might have the right idea after all. This guy is a little over the top for my taste, but let's see what this Honda subculture is all about. This little CRX is like driving a go-kart- nice and low to the ground, got a short throw on it, pretty stiff steering (I can get used to that), got a massive shift leg here (I don't know if he needs that), fire extinguisher (just in case the car decides to explode at any time. Now when I first saw this car, I wasn't interested at all. I mean, I didn't want to sit in it. I didn't want to come near it. Low on horsepower and it's all blinged out. But after closer look, it's pretty fun. I mean, it's like a go-kart and you hammer through the gears, it's right there. The only problem is the massive wing and the gray paint job. If it was my car, I'd paint it black. Now this kid spent $850 on this thing and built it himself. You're gonna build something and spend money on it, and it ain't girls and ain't beer, might as well be a car. CRX as your choice, so be it. This car did get me a lot of looks when I was driving down the road. Not sure of whether people were laughing at me or whether they were pumped about the car though. You see in this culture, there is a lot of go and a lot of show, and this car got a little of both. I think it definitely needs a little more horsepower. But the point is, the kid put this together, it's his first car, fabricated everything himself, did it dirt cheap, and got involved in a culture where everyone is keeping up cars. There's nothing wrong with that."

So I'm finally able to tell EVERYTHING that was said instead of interpreting what I was trying to say based on Sports Car Revolution. SCR's primary themes include the fact that pretending to be a real racer on the streets are both dangerous and insane. It is also basically anti-tuner. When I say "anti-tuner," I mean it is against the... dare I say again, "rice rocket" tuners.

Sometimes, I tend to think the tuner culture is like the Lowrider culture. And to me, it's like a double standard almost. When a person mods an old muscle car or so to be a lowrider (hydraulics and all), it's a nice, personalized car. But when a bunch of "kids" tune these sport compacts and imports, people think they are God-ugly. After all, they are unique tuners just as much as lowriders. I mean, never mind the fact that these people tune muscle cars while compact/import tuners only wish they were. We all mod cars to our liking. I seen a Mustang last year that was black with yellow, and it looked like crap. Maybe since I'm 21 years old, I'm relegated to the generation-Y cars. However, and don't forget. I don't have a car. My brother rides a Mazda truck, and there's this old Tercel hatchback here. All because I don't own an Xb or an Element or a Matrix doesn't mean that I still care about performance and power. You can't dump a small block or big block Chevy V8 into a compact (I did hear of a Mazda Miata with a Ford Mustang motor, though), so in essence, Japanese tuner cars aren't real cars based on American car enthusiasts. And just recently, I seen a "Mustangs and Hot Fords" issue that had on the cover a car that was told to be a "Import Slayer." This car was a 650hp 5.0 Mustang looks like. And to me, this piece of s*** was "rice" itself. I am not really fond of the 5.0, but the car had ugly headlights, a nasty-looking hood, and you expect to tell me that this car can take out anything Japanese?

I created this topic to investigate the cultural and social ties among people who own tuner cars for GO and to those who have tuner cars for SHOW. SCR had old cars that were key to the sports car revolution, but what interests me is Peter Klutt's descriptions. For example, he drove a Mini Cooper S of the '60s. He mentioned that some of the same concepts went into the modifications of the car, such as "take a little car, hot rod it, make it handle..." SCR is a good show, just that it may offend tuner car afficionados. On another note, let me say that it is not SERIOUSLY anti-tuner; they actually do talk about Japanese cars. Sony recording artist Kaz drove a tuned Acura...RL or TL one of them. He said that the car isn't much of a sleeper. He considered a Dodge Ram from the 1980s with a big motor to be a sleeper. But I am at no right to critique, really. We all have our interests and so we should be true to them. After all, we are all human (except maybe the ones who keep giving Viagra and free diploma E-mails).

But anyhow, it's show vs. go. There is no protagonist, nor an antagonist. But if there were, the protagonists would be the ones to tune to their delight and the antagonists would be the ones who own serious sportscars and are opposed to the sport compact/import tuners. Conversely, maybe the protagonists would be the ones who own serious sportscars, while the antagonists would be those who tune to be "freakshows on wheels" (from their perspective). Well, take a side, and reply.
 
how come it is a surprise that the STI beat the mustang? its obvious for god´s sake, the mustang chassis is older than me!
noe, for everything else, Lt doomsday and skip have my 👍 that is why I want to make project Fearmont, an EFI, turbo-fed 332 CI Ford Small block and Explorer IRS system in a 1982 Ford Fairmont Wagon, complete with fake wood panels and stock wheels. 6-speed trans, big brakes, revised suspension, the lot. yeah.It will cost me an eye, but what the heck.

Cano
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
Sometimes, I tend to think the tuner culture is like the Lowrider culture. And to me, it's like a double standard almost. When a person mods an old muscle car or so to be a lowrider (hydraulics and all), it's a nice, personalized car.
No, it's not. It's a crying shame and a total waste of a classic that could have been restored instead.
 
Sometimes, I tend to think the tuner culture is like the Lowrider culture. And to me, it's like a double standard almost. When a person mods an old muscle car or so to be a lowrider (hydraulics and all), it's a nice, personalized car. But when a bunch of "kids" tune these sport compacts and imports, people think they are God-ugly. After all, they are unique tuners just as much as lowriders. I mean, never mind the fact that these people tune muscle cars while compact/import tuners only wish they were. We all mod cars to our liking.

Me I rather like the lowriding culture and the way I see it its not really like the tuning thing at all. I mean the whole point of lowriding is going low or hopping/dancing. Lowriders aren't meant to be fast either.

And just recently, I seen a "Mustangs and Hot Fords" issue that had on the cover a car that was told to be a "Import Slayer." This car was a 650hp 5.0 Mustang looks like. And to me, this piece of s*** was "rice" itself. I am not really fond of the 5.0, but the car had ugly headlights, a nasty-looking hood, and you expect to tell me that this car can take out anything Japanese?

So looks make the performance of a car now? I used to have a old beat up 5.0 Stang. Grant it I bought it out of a feild and it blew up eventually, but still it was a good old beater. Looks mean nothing. I think a Skyline looks ugly as hell, but I'm not doubting its fast.
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Here's my philosphy: "Go fast. Look stock."


M

I love you man!!


Originally posted by Fenrir51
Go fast looks stock means you didnt have any money left over to look good ;)

Doesn't that just go back to the start? The trick is to ifnd the right balance. The most subtle body mods are the nicest.

Originally posted by BlazinXtreme
I'll quit bashing them when other quit bashing American


I'm pretty sure a lot of people could use that as their motive.

Originally posted by TS1AWD
...38lbs of stickers, 20lbs of really bad wiring everywhere...

Hahahahaha. Well put. Also, I'm very surprised with your accuracy.

Anyways. Honestly, i would much rather buy something like an '86 944 rather than buying a cheap import and tuning it up. First off, to me the 944 doesn't need anything to make it look good. Second, it has plenty power to start with for street driving so there is no need to spend money tuning it. I'm pretty sure the 944 would end up being cheaper than me buying an old civic and tuning it even slightly.
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
And just recently, I seen a "Mustangs and Hot Fords" issue that had on the cover a car that was told to be a "Import Slayer." This car was a 650hp 5.0 Mustang looks like. And to me, this piece of s*** was "rice" itself. I am not really fond of the 5.0, but the car had ugly headlights, a nasty-looking hood, and you expect to tell me that this car can take out anything Japanese?

Well....I found that picture, and my freind, you picked the wrong car to **** with. Those "ugly headlights and nasty-looking hood" make up what is called the SVO Mustang. This 2.3 turbo pushrod motor doesnt have the "displacement edge" that import fanatics continually b*tch about, doesnt have cammer technolgy or VTEC, but still easily puts out 500+ hp (200 hp 240 ft-lbs tq stock). So if you dont like the hood, dont worry about it, all you'll be seeing of this car is the taillights.

EDIT: linkage to this same car on StangNet
 

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Originally posted by BlazinXtreme
I think a Skyline looks ugly as hell

yeah just look at its uglyness
 

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They're kind of handsome, in a slightly clunky way. What I find annoying, though, is the number of fanboys who would look at a Cobra R from the same angle - which would have exactly the same stance, muscularity, and agressive look - and call it a piece of crap.

I guess that's not really the Skyline's fault, though.

Mustang%20Ford%20Cobra%20R.jpg
 
personally i do like the look of the mustang in your pic, im not real crash hot on the wheels and the wing (looks strange, i like the R34 wing better). also i would have liked the pic better if it wasnt doing a burnout. overall the car looks nice, but i dont like ford
 
As I have said, I don't take sides with cars. So I like all cars of all makes. With the "Sports Car Revolution" topic I mentioned, I brought this up to look at the ties between the supposed antagonists and protagonists of the car world when it comes to modifications. And like I said, we are all human. Just because one person doesn't like something somoene else likes, it doesn't mean that the one who makes the negative remarks should be ruthlessly attacked. We all have our likes and our dislikes. As things go with me, I like American cars, Japanese, if it has an engine, a body, four wheels, and lights, I like it.

I think that the issue at hand is "can these mini-tuners actually PERFORM like the Corvette, Mustang, 911 GT3... you know, the bigtime sports cars?" The underpowered import/sport compact machines that can do it on the drag strip or the road course are obviously some of the kings of the race track on any given weekend. So when a person wants more power from their underperformer, of course, they want MORE POWER. Of course, more power is an American tradition. Let me tell you. Hark back to the Gran Turismo series. Compare a (I'll use GT3 for an example) Honda Civic (world's most overrated sport compact) to a Ruf 3400S. Both offer good performance characteristics. The 3400S is priced higher than the Civic. I'm guessing the 3400S is turbocharged, meaning a few bolt-ons (turbo kit, intercooler, etc.), and it can go better and accelerate more quickly. If you wanted to make it faster while being aerodynamic, you'd add lighter body parts and a specialized rear wing. Together, they should provide a degree of good aerodynamics while being faster. The Civic is normally-aspirated, so the option of a turbocharger or intercooler is not really possible. Now, I think that with an engine swap to a turbo motor would probably get your turbo options to go better. Now, I'm no pro, but the only way to make your car better is to tune it.

When I said that the import/sport compact culture are like the lowrider culture, I meant that both cultures share a common interest- an understanding of cars with tuning. Lowrider folk know the old American cars. You know, El Dorado, Nova, Impala, you go from there. The tuners of today know the small cars. You know, Focus, Civic (dare I say again), Celica, Neon, you go from there. I just feel that the ones with the import/sport compact cars will get picked on very much by American ponycar owners. Likewise, the American ponycar owners will get picked on very much by the import/sport compact owners. Which is the better choice? That depends on the owner's tastes. I'm not here to make choices for anyone. A car is a car is a car.

I'm guessing that ponycar owners don't dislike import/sport compact car owners because they think the cosmetic differences are testament to how underperforming they can be. I tend to think that the reason why ponycar owners dislike owners of the import/sport compact scene is because stock, they are not street-legal race cars. They think that their cheap price makes them as cheap as their price. People tend to want difference in the cars they choose to buy and drive (or race, legally). So while a stock Supra can't beat a stock 911 GT2 or a stock ZO6 Corvette, the cars are still fun to drive. I don't think an 18-year old with the budget of a college tuition in 5-digit figues would:

(1) not have the money to buy a sports car
(1a) not have the intelligence and experience for a sportscar

...or...

(2) not want an American car
(2a) not have interest in tuning an American car

Now when I say American car, I mean the high-performing, drag race winning, 3400+ pound cars. Often times, a person with a smaller car wants to try to beat the larger cars. And I think one of the best in the business of making upsets was the Mini Cooper. I heard of the Cooper winning in touring car and in rally. Now while I looked at the bashing of the Nissan Skyline, I was never a serious fan of the car. However, just because it isn't American with a V8 doesn't mean that the car doesn't qualify as a performer. Sometimes we look too much on HPs instead of cornering. And often times, America is a power-crazy nation (in the car world at least. Don't give me any hate posts for this!).

Now, maybe I don't get it. Is it that tuners respect cars, but "kill" them just by adding fancy graphics and race car looks without race car performance? Or is it that tuners think that a car is more than just a normal car, so the performance additions are only good for nothing? Or is it that economy cars have the capability to be performance machines, but the tuners are going at it the wrong way, tuning it to look like a freakshow? I don't have the answers to these questions in this paragraph, so maybe you all can answer. Am I mad? Not at all. Just curious. I'm not contradicting myself, I'm just wondering what exactly is it about these tuner car people that ticks off owners of true sportscars.
 
I just think that Skylines look like crap, but that doesn't mean I don't think they are fast. While I have never driven one and I've only even seen one in person, I would imagine they are good.
 
Well, in my experience, I've seen it from both sides of the fence. I own an old American car with a big V8. I own not one but TWO Neons. I've run with both crowds.

In my opinion, the majority of the tension initiates from the "Import" crowd (for want of a better term).

Let me follow that up by saying that I do hear some "Japanese Crap" noise from American big-displacement fans. I also know some guys who are open to the idea of small cars but just have no clue about them, foreign or domestic.

But most of the people that I know who are American muscle fans also realize the potential of small, tuned cars. They admit that a zippy little car can be fun to drive - that's what led me to buy both Neons - and they enjoy each kind in their own way. I know a lot of people with 340- and 440-powered classic Mopars who also have a Neon to play with or as a daily driver.

In my experience, most of the True Believers, the rabid fanboys who can only see One Path To Glory, are supporters of Japanese cars. They are unwilling to learn about anything else because they have already Seen The Light. I've never had a Cavalier owner or Focus driver or even most Camaro/Mustang fans make fun of my Neon ACR. But if I had a nickel for every punk kid in a clapped-out SOHC Civic who snickered and called it a "Peon" (while having no clue that I could spank him pink on a strip OR a road course), I could put a tank of premium gas in it.

On the issue of "appearance" mods, I have to say that's a matter of taste... or lack of taste. I don't dress like a pimp; I don't want my car to look like one either. I like bright color cars, but that doesn't mean I like bright, metal flake, splatter-finish paint jobs. Like most sports car enthusiasts, I prefer more understated elegance in just about everything. That's totally lacking in most body kits, wings, etc. which always look cheap and tacked-on, no matter how much they cost (and assuming the owner can actually afford to have them painted). Very few kits actually integrate with the overall design of the car. When they do, and are a nice, subtle enhancement rather than a heavy-handed coat of makeup slapped onto the car like Vegas hooker, they can really be a nice finishing touch. Unfortunately there are very very few of those out there.

This is leaving out the whole question of pretending to be something you are not: trying to look like a race car when you're driving a tarted-up street car. I've got no patience for poseurs no matter what they are trying to pose as.
 
i had a ricer over the house{sister's friend} that drove a Acura RSX with 30,000 miles on the motor and this really f-ing loud fartcannon{it hurt my ears,i pity anyone that had to sit in it}.he starts talking about wanting to take out the motor and put a type-R motor{guess the R stands for Retarded}.i told him that i don't think they make a Type-R motor for your car.

the i start going into how he could just build up the motor he has in the car with a cam,header and some head work and save the hassle of pulling a good motor that is barely broken in .................the glazed "what?" look came over his face.

after that he shut up pretty quick.
 
Ok, let me start by saying I read the huge first post and a few of the arguements about sky vs stang and now I don't feel like reading the rest, SO i'm just putting my opinion down if I write the same thing as someone else, my bad.

I think having a show car or a go car are both fine. I think some people would rather have a nice looking car with alot of tv's sound systems and body kits. And some would rather have a regular hum drum looking car that does 9s on the quarter mile. I think its all just what you want to spend your money on and I think thats great that people like cars in different ways. The only beef I have is when people buy some rims, a tip for their exaust and maybe throw on a body kit and think they are racers. That is the reason the whole rice revolution as I like to call it came about. If you want a nice looking car by all means put a body kit and some fancy rims on, just do go trying to talk **** about how fast your car is. and if you have a fast car and you race alot don't bashing people with nice looking cars just because they dont have 20lbs of boost running through a turbo bolted to their b16 engine. Hey if you can make you car look good and go fast at the same time well **** good for you! Can I borrow some money? ^_^
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Here's my philosphy: "Go fast. Look stock."


M
That pretty much goes with my feelings -> "All show, no go, makes you one sorry slow bro!"
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
No, it's not. It's a crying shame and a total waste of a classic that could have been restored instead.

this man knows. lowriding a classic car... err.. any car, whatever it might be, is a total waste of time and money.

In my experience, most of the True Believers, the rabid fanboys who can only see One Path To Glory, are supporters of Japanese cars. They are unwilling to learn about anything else because they have already Seen The Light. I've never had a Cavalier owner or Focus driver or even most Camaro/Mustang fans make fun of my Neon ACR. But if I had a nickel for every punk kid in a clapped-out SOHC Civic who snickered and called it a "Peon" (while having no clue that I could spank him pink on a strip OR a road course), I could put a tank of premium gas in it.


well, this is indeniably biased too, Neon. I know a bunch of GTPers, lovers of japanese cars, that dont think Fords are worth a damn and make stupid posts that say "lets just laugh at ford/gm/mopar/etc" I DO know members that are import lovers that also apreciate the american cars and their potential (punk rock comes to mind), but this also happens with the few hot rodders in this place. I keep seeing how Honda is bashed again and again, or a supra, because it aint a grand national. even if the supra or the honda will spank the GN. I've learned to apreciate each and every car for what they do, and I tend not to bash any marque now. there are many members that do, tough. its annoying.

Cano
 
Haha that makes me laugh a GN getting beat by a Supra.

Grand Nationals were way ahead of them time. GM had some funny ideas back in the late 80's and early 90's.
 
Originally posted by BlazinXtreme
Haha that makes me laugh a GN getting beat by a Supra.

Grand Nationals were way ahead of them time. GM had some funny ideas back in the late 80's and early 90's.
You know what their funniest idea was? It was making an electrical system for their cars : ) bastiges. . . :lol:

Personnally, I think Cano has a point about appreciating the car for what it is. . . I love every type of car out there, but at one point did not appreciate cars like Cano does. I am guilty just like anyone else here of bashing cars. . .

I truly believe function over form is the best way to go. You can look good, but that is just a representation of yourself. It reflects what is important to you the way you have your car. All go and no show, you have no problem showing who you are. . . All Show and no go. . . . (don't get pissy with me for saying this: rememeber personal opinion) You are fake to the world. . .
 
Your right miata, I guess it is up to what ever the owner chooses to do. I wanted to lower a truck, thats just my taste.

And yes I should apperciate cars for what they are not by were they are from. I guess the main reason I don't like Japanese cars is because most of the time I get owners of them bashing the American cars. I guess if they weren't like that then I'd prolly like Japanese cars again.
 
I seen Cano and Blazin in my other "The Tuner Culture" topic. For the most part, when I came up with that, I just wanted to talk about the tuner culture. Blazin discussed mini-trucking and all. Later on, Griffin comes in mentioning my introduction and then looking at the Skyline vs. Mustang talk. The point made with the Skyline/Mustang war is that the R34 looks ugly compared to the Mustang. Then later (and I'll admit), there was the usual Honda bashing used by stereotypical idiots. Now when I say stereotypical idiots, I mean that a person who has a V8 ponycar likes to think that basically all personally-modded cars are Honda Civics. Of course, that is a generalization. Besides, not only Hondas and not only Civics, to make a long story short, anything with aftermarket parts and bolt-on goodies can be modded.

You know what I got on my PS2 as I type this? The DVD to "The Fast and the Furious." Now let me make this clear. I am SICK of the FnF labelling. I think someone wanted to put them in the spotlight, and the cars raced (except maybe the 'Cuda at the end) were mostly sport compacts and non-American cars. I glanced over a website just last night on this Asian-inspired website, whereas the editor talked about how Lucy Liu was in "Charlie's Angels" and put an Asian lady on the map. Later, he was disgraced that Liu wasn't in "Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle," saying that she was in a quick scene, never to be seen again for the rest of the movie. So what example would this prove for if FnF had all American muscle cars? Well, I already know that there was "Bullit" (right spelling?) that had a Mustang in it. I'm sure there were no bodykits or fancy lighting (wasn't even around back then). But I bet if FnF had all muscle cars and American trucks, WE'D be making fun of them because import/sport compact fans think that they need a chance to shine and with a moment crushed to bits, import/sport compact fans were pretty ticked.

Allow me to express a theory about the tuner culture and how much it relates to teen girls. If you didn't know, I admire ladies' fashion. I almost wanted to consider being a fashion designer. But anyhow, when young girls love to see their favorite female stars dress up in sexy, daring fashion, almost every trendy girl wants to look like her or wear the kinds of clothing she wears. I can recall when Kelly Clarkson was American Idol and was on MTV or something, and girls liked her clothing that she thought about starting her own clothing line. Much like J-Lo (formerly "Jennifer Lopez"). She obviously looked her best, so she made her own clothing line. So how does this relate to the import/sport compact scene? This may sound strange, but we are all like the trendy teen girls. When we love looking at something beautiful or stylish, tuners want to have that look. And in so, it has. There are shaker hoods, roof scoop like on some WRC cars, carbon fiber body parts, neon lighting, and all that stuff to make people personalize their car much the same way a young girl wants to personalize her wardrobe. People mod cars the way they want to with the best of their ability. If a car wants to look like a rally champion, so be it. If someone wants the car to be a GT racer, so be it. But it comes at the price of proving it. "Sports Car Revolution" is anti-tuner for a reason. It is because if you want your car to be a competitor, you have to prove it. And to go back to my example about trendy teens, if a girl wears a shirt saying she's an "Angel" or a "Princess," normally, she'd have to prove it. An angel is basically a dead soul that brings good to people and resides in heaven. A princess is the lower level of Queen, and not one trendy girl out there rules a nation. The only exception to the rule would be a shirt saying "American Girl," simply because she was born American and/or loves America.

America is more of a nation of proving things, rather than just taking things for granted, so to speak. I think that a Skyline... no, let's pick a lesser overrated Japanese car... a Mitsubishi 3000GT. Okay, the 3000GT has almost as much weight as a small luxury car, but with tuning, becomes very powerful. But can it take on a Camaro SS on the strip and tuned to the max and street legal? Maybe, maybe not. But you'd eat your words if you doubted the 3000GT because it is possibly Japan's most powerful car available to America. The GT-R you would have to import (or you can tune the Infiniti G35). And Cano brings up some good points. Just because a Civic or a Supra isn't a Grand National or a 5.0 doesn't mean that it's junk. I been in Japanese Chats on AOL (I know no one cares about AOL, but let me finish), and this one person said "isn't the Supra an expensive piece of junk?" So what? A Mustang in the $25,000 to $35,000 range ISN'T junk? Last I heard, the Supra ran you by maybe $40,000+. The Corvette is like, 35, 40, $50,000? Sure, you can't add fancy graphics to any of these cars and make them underperform, otherwise, it would be the equivalent of loving polka music over rock, right? As long as the car owner has an imagination, any car from his/her mind can be modded if at all possible. Muscle car people, I am SICK of the "Fast and Furious" stereotypes about import/sport compacts. They listen to breakbeat and techno with our cool cars compared to listening to Brooks and Dunn or Toby Keith, but that doesn't mean that they don't know their cars. And someone mentioned this, some people dislike American cars, but appreciate their performance. I know when I was in the TXR3 Review in the Game Reviews forum, Darin said that "I was really smoking something" when I said that the Ford Mustang Mach 1 in the game was a cool car. Now in the game, I race a 725HP Ford GT. I like all cars of all types. I needed a performance edge in the game so I chose those. Just because I have some American models doesn't mean I am anti-Japanese and anti-tuner. Just because I like Japanese cars doesn't mean I'm anti-non-Japanese. I just have different tastes, and I can't be thinking about anything with a V8 and 3000+ pounds of weight. Some people PREFER lighter, more nimble cars. And while some tuner cars LOOK like race cars or special one-offs, at least they are not the race cars of today. The tuner culture is more of a fashion statement, and money can't be wasted endlessly on an American V8 car. The lighter, smaller, less-powerful cars just perform better and I've grown to love them. Go ahead and bash on me, I've had plenty of that online in AOL Chats.

So, when it comes to Show vs. Go, it's based on personal tastes, no matter what any V8-toting speed demon daresay.
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01

...But I bet if FnF had all muscle cars and American trucks, WE'D be making fun of them because import/sport compact fans think that they need a chance to shine and with a moment crushed to bits, import/sport compact fans were pretty ticked.


Sorry, but this has no sense. I dont think anyone would make fun of muscle cars in F&F. Nor I think anyone would make fun of the imports in F&F if they werent THAT riced up. its very related to this topic, but the thing is, that, lets face it, F&F cars are ridiculous. if the movie had the same scenes but with REALLY tuned Japanese cars (imagine a Mines Skyline, a RE-Amemiya RX7, and that stuff) it would be a completely different thing the movie would still suck, but the cars would rock. as in the second movie, where the most apraised cars were the Challenger and the Yenko. I bet I would have laughed at them if the challenger had an aluminum wing and the Yenko had pink neons under it. they are muscle cars, you say!! so what???? they are tastelessly riced, and are ridiculous. hey, I laughed at a Skyline, and that is a serious car. but.... neons? LOLOL!!! :lol:

Cano
 
The Fast and Furious had to be one the worst movies ever made. And the second one wasn't much better. I laughed when the Evo beat the Yenko...no way in hell that would happen.

I don't know I just think that FnF is being way over "explotied". I mean I go into AutoZone to pick up a case of oil and I see FnF Battery Covers, neons, steering wheels and so on. I would never buy anything with that label on it.
 
Originally posted by Cano
I laughed at a Skyline, and that is a serious car. but.... neons? LOLOL!!! :lol:

Cano

I was too busy cursing at the fact that they ruined the whole movie by bastardizing the GTR, and then to make things worse that big ass electroshock thingamabob they shoot it with and then it crashes into a parking meter? I was like WTF? He should crashed the EVO, the bastards, I dont care if it was ricy as hell, you still dont crash a skyline on purpose....ok I better stop...my eye is twitching :lol:

But I agree with can on his statment about liking all cars, I used to be heavily into imports and hated american cars but now I like all cars. I still am heavily biased towards the GTR, Supra, and NSX but I don't go around talking trash about other car makes. Even if you may not like them you should still respect them.
 
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