The Wheel Inherent Advantage

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HornetX1

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United Kingdom
It's about time those of you that use wheels stop lying to yourselves & starting accepting that the racing wheels have an inherent advantage over the controllers. They always have & always will.

You can be low A/S driver skill/ability wise, & easily compete with higher A/S maybe even low A+/S drivers on pads.

Basically, once you get fully adjusted to the wheel (& This could take days, or weeks or months, it's varied & certainly not an easy transition)... You will always be able to lunch above your weight skill wise until you start coming across other wheel users.

I've said it for years, sport mode should split the playerbase further by hardware...or at the very least, give us the OPTION, of joining timeslots & selecting our hardware so that we get matched with others using the same equipment.

Or maybe not selecting because you'd 100% get wheel users looking for low skill easy wins. But seen as it's a first party game I'm almost certain they could detect the hardware you're on, & then do some kind of check again a few times mid race to make sure nobody switches over.

That's all semantics anyway.

It's time for wheel users to stop trying to lie to themselves & pretend that the wheel isn't "that much of an advantage" so that they can feel good about winning raced Vs controllers.

The wheel is a giant advantage, and that gap has clearly increased on GT7.
Here are some of the advantages to using a wheel:

  • Wheels have way finer controls, allowing for more precise inputs on the throttle, brakes & steering...
  • They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
  • Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
  • Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
  • No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

The only advantage of using a controller is the lack of fatigue. Depending on how you're set up, I can imagine some longer races would fatigue some people on a wheel, whereas a controller is all in the fingers so there's zero fatigue even after a few hours.

Time to put an end to the defensive myth spread by wheel users. No it's not an even playing field, yes you do have a significant advantage, & yes you should be forced to play against others with the same equipment. I don't care if it cuts the playerbase down... There's definitely more than 16 people in each major region using wheels, so there's at least one full session.

Oh, I almost forgot... Tracks with camber

Yes wheek users, not only do you have an inherent hardware advantage, but it's even more pronounced on tracks with camber. Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.

I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy reading everything I left here for you, I look forward to reading all your lovely little replies.
 
It's about time those of you that use wheels stop lying to yourselves & starting accepting that the racing wheels have an inherent advantage over the controllers. They always have & always will.

You can be low A/S driver skill/ability wise, & easily compete with higher A/S maybe even low A+/S drivers on pads.

Basically, once you get fully adjusted to the wheel (& This could take days, or weeks or months, it's varied & certainly not an easy transition)... You will always be able to lunch above your weight skill wise until you start coming across other wheel users.

I've said it for years, sport mode should split the playerbase further by hardware...or at the very least, give us the OPTION, of joining timeslots & selecting our hardware so that we get matched with others using the same equipment.

Or maybe not selecting because you'd 100% get wheel users looking for low skill easy wins. But seen as it's a first party game I'm almost certain they could detect the hardware you're on, & then do some kind of check again a few times mid race to make sure nobody switches over.

That's all semantics anyway.

It's time for wheel users to stop trying to lie to themselves & pretend that the wheel isn't "that much of an advantage" so that they can feel good about winning raced Vs controllers.

The wheel is a giant advantage, and that gap has clearly increased on GT7.
Here are some of the advantages to using a wheel:

  • Wheels have way finer controls, allowing for more precise inputs on the throttle, brakes & steering...
  • They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
  • Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
  • Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
  • No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

The only advantage of using a controller is the lack of fatigue. Depending on how you're set up, I can imagine some longer races would fatigue some people on a wheel, whereas a controller is all in the fingers so there's zero fatigue even after a few hours.

Time to put an end to the defensive myth spread by wheel users. No it's not an even playing field, yes you do have a significant advantage, & yes you should be forced to play against others with the same equipment. I don't care if it cuts the playerbase down... There's definitely more than 16 people in each major region using wheels, so there's at least one full session.

Oh, I almost forgot... Tracks with camber

Yes wheek users, not only do you have an inherent hardware advantage, but it's even more pronounced on tracks with camber. Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.

I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy reading everything I left here for you, I look forward to reading all your lovely little replies.
Dude, I really don't know anymore whether I should laugh or cry about your posts.

Once you complain about drivers driving with zero stops and winning against you or "hindering" you, now it's the steering wheel users who supposedly or according to you all claim that they are worse with the steering wheel than with the PAD. Incidentally, I have not yet seen a single steering wheel user who still says he is slower than with the pad after a certain time. At the BEGINNING, yes, you are basically slower there, because you have to learn it first, but then you are logically 99% faster, because you can play much more precisely, at least theoretically.

You claim to be an A or A+ driver, at least I read that somewhere... if that's really the case, then, seriously, I understand your whining absolutely ZERO.
An A and especially A+ driver is so good that he doesn't give a **** what or how others play as long as they drive fair like real sportsmen.

Sorry you seem more like a C at most B driver to me blaming everyone else for being just a C or B driver. And if it weren't for all the "bad guys" drivers, he would be an A+ driver... why not an S right away?
 
I use a controller most of the time because with most cars because it's easier on this game , but it depends on what cars you use.
Like the sport race with the AE86 I found easier with controller but some of the faster cars might be easier with a wheel.
 
There should always be a limit to what can be achieved with the default equipment versus using an often expensive, specialised tool literally built to control this specific kind of game. I would fully expect the people at the very top to be using wheels as they are the elite of the playerbase, or aspire to be, and have put in the investment in time, money and energy to be there.

Don't see any problem with this at all and of all the sims or 'simcades' GT is among the most balanced in this regard anyway, offering great handling and responsive control to pad users and I'm sure there are many who can do extraordinary things and compete with the best while using one.

Not that you're actually looking for a genuine conversation on this, of course :lol:
 
Just read your post history after someone above mentioned it.

How are you not banned, you just moan and argue, there is a page of posts where you are complaining about people no stopping. If it wasn't a viable tactic, those people wouldn't win.
You also mentioned you punt people on purpose, you have had 3 accounts perma banned for abuse.

Yeah, I don't think you have much value to add here but good luck, may the GT7 gods bless you with only controller lobbies from here on out.
 
It's about time those of you that use wheels stop lying to yourselves & starting accepting that the racing wheels have an inherent advantage over the controllers. They always have & always will.

You can be low A/S driver skill/ability wise, & easily compete with higher A/S maybe even low A+/S drivers on pads.

Basically, once you get fully adjusted to the wheel (& This could take days, or weeks or months, it's varied & certainly not an easy transition)... You will always be able to lunch above your weight skill wise until you start coming across other wheel users.

I've said it for years, sport mode should split the playerbase further by hardware...or at the very least, give us the OPTION, of joining timeslots & selecting our hardware so that we get matched with others using the same equipment.

Or maybe not selecting because you'd 100% get wheel users looking for low skill easy wins. But seen as it's a first party game I'm almost certain they could detect the hardware you're on, & then do some kind of check again a few times mid race to make sure nobody switches over.

That's all semantics anyway.

It's time for wheel users to stop trying to lie to themselves & pretend that the wheel isn't "that much of an advantage" so that they can feel good about winning raced Vs controllers.

The wheel is a giant advantage, and that gap has clearly increased on GT7.
Here are some of the advantages to using a wheel:

  • Wheels have way finer controls, allowing for more precise inputs on the throttle, brakes & steering...
  • They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
  • Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
  • Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
  • No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

The only advantage of using a controller is the lack of fatigue. Depending on how you're set up, I can imagine some longer races would fatigue some people on a wheel, whereas a controller is all in the fingers so there's zero fatigue even after a few hours.

Time to put an end to the defensive myth spread by wheel users. No it's not an even playing field, yes you do have a significant advantage, & yes you should be forced to play against others with the same equipment. I don't care if it cuts the playerbase down... There's definitely more than 16 people in each major region using wheels, so there's at least one full session.

Oh, I almost forgot... Tracks with camber

Yes wheek users, not only do you have an inherent hardware advantage, but it's even more pronounced on tracks with camber. Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.

I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy reading everything I left here for you, I look forward to reading all your lovely little replies.
You forgot to demand separate single player leaderboards for wheel & pad users... 😈

Edit: For the cost of four replaced controllers you'd have been pretty close to getting a G29/G923...
 
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Im saving for a full setup an fanatec, but I’ve found the gap to the top 10 for me has decreased in terms of qualifying pace. In GTS I used to be around 2.5-3% within the top 10 times. Now I’m more like 1.5 - 2% within the top 10 times so I think the gap has reduced in terms of allowing pad players to have a crack at those with wheels.
 
Don't forget separate leaderboards for what view you use, and another for what assists you use, then another for the size of your screen...
Since Sony knows who we are anyway, we should be divided according to the following:

-Age
-Gender
-Weight
-Size
-Religion
-Origin

Hey, and if that's not enough...

-sexual orientation
-Favourite colour
-Hair colour
-Eye color
-Marital status
 
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It's about time those of you that use wheels stop lying to yourselves & starting accepting that the racing wheels have an inherent advantage over the controllers. They always have & always will.

You can be low A/S driver skill/ability wise, & easily compete with higher A/S maybe even low A+/S drivers on pads.

Basically, once you get fully adjusted to the wheel (& This could take days, or weeks or months, it's varied & certainly not an easy transition)... You will always be able to lunch above your weight skill wise until you start coming across other wheel users.

I've said it for years, sport mode should split the playerbase further by hardware...or at the very least, give us the OPTION, of joining timeslots & selecting our hardware so that we get matched with others using the same equipment.

Or maybe not selecting because you'd 100% get wheel users looking for low skill easy wins. But seen as it's a first party game I'm almost certain they could detect the hardware you're on, & then do some kind of check again a few times mid race to make sure nobody switches over.

That's all semantics anyway.

It's time for wheel users to stop trying to lie to themselves & pretend that the wheel isn't "that much of an advantage" so that they can feel good about winning raced Vs controllers.

The wheel is a giant advantage, and that gap has clearly increased on GT7.
Here are some of the advantages to using a wheel:

  • Wheels have way finer controls, allowing for more precise inputs on the throttle, brakes & steering...
  • They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
  • Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
  • Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
  • No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

The only advantage of using a controller is the lack of fatigue. Depending on how you're set up, I can imagine some longer races would fatigue some people on a wheel, whereas a controller is all in the fingers so there's zero fatigue even after a few hours.

Time to put an end to the defensive myth spread by wheel users. No it's not an even playing field, yes you do have a significant advantage, & yes you should be forced to play against others with the same equipment. I don't care if it cuts the playerbase down... There's definitely more than 16 people in each major region using wheels, so there's at least one full session.

Oh, I almost forgot... Tracks with camber

Yes wheek users, not only do you have an inherent hardware advantage, but it's even more pronounced on tracks with camber. Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.

I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy reading everything I left here for you, I look forward to reading all your lovely little replies.
I think you're exaggerating the advantage wheels have over controller, there is definitely a difference but I would estimate it is closer to a couple of tenths in most car/track combos.
 
In GT Sport the advantages of using a wheel was smaller than in many many many other racing games. in GT Sport a good driver with a controller and all assists can compete with a good wheel user, the limitations of the tyre model also helped here. In GT7 seems they've added more controller hidden assists to combat the differences and close this gap further, but who knows.
 
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  • They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
  • Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
  • Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
  • No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

Fine Control comes from better resolution.
A Moving a trigger 30degress is not the same is moving a pedal down 45 degrees
For streering, D-Pad inputs are binary inputs, this means 0 steering to Max steering.
If you use analog, you got what 40 degrees of motion where as a cheap cheap wheel as 90 degrees each way, more expensive wheels get 180 degrees each way if not more.

Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.
Controllers cant handle cambered corners?

So High Speed Ring, Nordschleife's Karussell, Alsace

I dont like the fact that you need a wheel to drive faster, but I race with the tools I have and a good D-pad driver can still beat a good wheel driver by using their brains and having a better strategy for the race and having a better set up and car.
 
Controllers cant handle cambered corners?
That seems to be fixed on GT7, on the old game there was a huge problem in the physics which meant high downforce cars would lose almost all steering on high banked turns.
 
That seems to be fixed on GT7, on the old game there was a huge problem in the physics which meant high downforce cars would lose almost all steering on high banked turns.

I have used controllers since GT1, never had an issue with cambered corners

It's not quite that simple, when using d-pad steering inputs are applied gradually until you release the control, then removed gradually until you press it again. You can achieve some finesse with d-pad by tapping the buttons, but it takes a lot of practice.

Just cause it can take 100ms to go to full does not make it an analog input
 
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I have used controllers since GT1, never had an issue with cambered corners
It only seemed to happen to cars with lots of downforce, if you tried the Dallara SF19 at Northern Isle or the first turn at Blue Moon Bay oval you would feel it refusing to turn.
 
Just cause it can take 100ms to go to full does not make it an analog input
Agreed, but it's not quite all or nothing binary digital either. It's actually not a bad compromise for non-analog controllers when implemented with the correct delay (and possibly a difference in delay between "press" & "release") and has been used on many driving and flying games successfully over the several decades of this type of game.
I fully agree that's it's a big disadvantage when compared to true variable inputs though.
 
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