The Words of the Winds are Now all Clear

[rofajole]

Yeah I've been posting this pic as referance..

Altho Kaz always had hopes and dreams about many features... GT3 suppose to have ONLINE Time Tirlas (Just like Prologue) and GT4 suppose to have Online racing/private lobbies..

But now that PS3 has really good online services, its way easier for PD to achieve Kaz's dream.. So 100% each and every of the features from the PIC will be in FULL GT5 game from day one.

I love your optimism, but I really doubt that "each and every of the features from the PIC will be in FULL GT5 game from day one", just saying...

 

[QSpec]

Do we think cockpit view will be available in ALL of the cars?

 

[cpp214]

I take this last bit to mean that some of the models will be imported from GT4, with upgraded graphics (but likely no cockpit camera mode). Skipping interior modeling alone would drastically cut the polygon count and modeling time.

Of course, 600+ cars is an impressive claim, and if that is the goal, then PD is definitely reaching. But to claim that it is physically impossible is also a stretch.

I hope that after the now legendary delay of GT5, that PD has not decided to cut corners now. That would be ridiculous. And I don't even use cockpit view very often. Plus, if Amar's post is accurate, and buyers wind up having to fork over more than the usual $60 for a PS3 game to get all the extra GT5 content they want, then cockpit view for all cars better be in the game. Just my opinion.

 

[dzidza]

i haven't driven single lap in gtr proto, because it has no cockpit view. racing car have similar cockpit, so it wouldn't take much time to create it. but we will see.

 

[Dave A]

But then why would they say it takes so long to make a car if it doesn't? Why not just say it takes, say, a week, to make the car? They don't say six months of man hours, they say six months. Add that onto Kaz's claim of 5-600 cars being impossible, and six actual months makes sense to me.

Polyphony has 110 employees, for the record. I'm not sure what that means in terms of productivity; I've no idea how many people are stationed on car design.

It's business speak, a lot of companies assign a number of man hours for certain jobs or projects and then from that split up how many hours for each aspect of that and then work out how many people can work on it simultaniously. So a job that takes 20 man hours might have 3 different areas to work on. One area might take 10 hours but 2 people can work on it and the other areas might take 5 hours each. That means that this 20 hour job with 1 person on it would take 2 hours, 2 people could do it in 10 hours, and 4 people could do it in 5 hours.

 

[JDMKING13]

That's not how game development works. The cars have be re-created from the ground up. In GT4, the cars were basically just textures (see 'Beyond the Apex'). In GT5, we're finally getting polygons making up every detail of the car, and each car takes 6 months to create. We're not given how many people they have working on each car, or how many people are working on cars altogether, just that each car takes six months to create (again, see the movie). I could not imagine how long it takes to create a track

I watch Beyond the Apex today and they never said it takes 6 months to build one car he said it took 5 to 6 months to finish all the interior and exterior compared to GT4 which took 5 times longer.

 

[Patrik]

I watch Beyond the Apex today and they never said it takes 6 months to build one car he said it took 5 to 6 months to finish all the interior and exterior compared to GT4 which took 5 times longer.

Wait a minute... It took 25-30 months to build a car for GT4? Excuse me, but are you wasted or something?

 

[Mr Turismo]

Wait a minute... It took 25-30 months to build a car for GT4? Excuse me, but are you wasted or something?

what he´s trying to say is that GT5 cars took something like 5 or 6 months to get finished... all of them.. according beyond the apex video...

or not...

 

[Patrik]

what he´s trying to say is that GT5 cars took something like 5 or 6 months to get finished... all of them.. according beyond the apex video...

or not...

Maybe he tried to say that, but he failed pretty bad...

Now, this is what the guy in the video is saying: "It took about five to six months to finish the modeling for interior and exterior. Compared to GT4, it took five to six times longer.".

As far as I can tell CyborgGT was right from the beginning, and JDMKING13 had no reason to try and correct him.

 

[seanchump]

I remember hearing that it took 6 months to design a car but that was a while ago. I'm sure the PD team has become more efficient by now.

 

[G.T.Ace]

6 month for 1 person, read that post again:

Why do you not believe it is possible? I believe that you are looking at Beyond the apex too literally. Those 6 months per car can be done in under a week if you look at it properly.

I know that in my company when we refer to man hours in that long of a time frame we calculate it based on five day work weeks. So 6 months would be roughly (averaging 21 business days a month) 126 days or 3,024 hours. Now lets say you have a different guy working on each part of a car and it takes them 3 days to get their single part completed. That comes out to 42 guys using 6 months worth of man hours in just 3 days. If we want to assume calendar months, that is (averaging 30 days a month) 180 days or 4,320 hours. Still, that would only require 60 men to do six months worth of work in 3 days.

I know I am simplifying it for my example, but Polyphony has a moderately sized team and that six months does not mean that the entire team works on a single car for six calendar months. If it did we wouldn't even have Prologue yet.

I am a manager over 15 people, so in a five day work week my department does 2.5 months worth of hours.

So, to me that figure is not that unbelievable, especially as people do a specific job over time they get better at it, make less errors, and work at a faster pace. Efficiency improves over time, and without knowing where in the development cycle that six month figure was referring to, or if it was even just a rough exaggerated estimate to sound impressive I don't know if that six month figure was peak efficiency or early on. If it was early on I would not be surprised to find that they have shaved anywhere from 10%-25% off of that time.



Did you seriously compare an HD upgrade of an older fighting game to GT5? The differences in what is required here is staggering.

 

[Forgetful]

6 months worth of man hours can be accomplished in a single day, given enough man power. Ya dig?

 

[seanchump]

ahhh I totally agree. I missed that post.

 

[CyborgGT]

Because if they meant six calendar months then it would mean that Prologue shouldn't have even been ready. Thus, I can only assume that either Kaz is greatly exaggerating, or he meant man hours. Personally, I know we talk like that at work all the time when referring to productivity. It's just the way you talk about productivity. Either as man hours or FTEs (Full-Time Employees).

Actually, we were talking about this on the GameFAQs boards, and I did the math for a hypothetical situation. Prologue could definitely have been done with every car it has, with each one taking an actual six months to complete. With say, four people working on a single car, that still leaves half the company to work on other aspects of the game.

After GT4's Japanese release, it was about 3.3 years until 5P's American release, with its 76 cars. Excluding a 7th possible 5-or-so-month period, that can equate to about 13 people (or 13 groups of people) working on 6 cars each at 6 months per car (six periods of 6 months are in 3 years). Not to mention they've probably made at least a few other cars in that time that they chose not to release.

So in six months, a total of 13 cars are made (sounds like a decent DLC package to me! FM2 may have done it in half the time, but their cars aren't as detailed). Then the groups move onto their second car, and six months later a third, etc. So at the end of three years (six 6-month periods), each team has made 6 cars; a total of 78 when all the teams' cars are added together.

With my limited CAD experience, I'd guess designing that detailed of a car in six months shouldn't take more than a few people.

6 month for 1 person, read that post again:

Read my response again: we're never told how many people are working on each car, only that it takes six months. That's what's confusing, is whether they mean man hours or actual time.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think it would be helpful to let The Man speak for himself, rather than paraphrase what we think he said. Two points to bring forward from the Ars Technica forum:

How long did it take to model all the cars?

Yamauchi: A designer spends roughly 6 months in average. 50 cars are 300 months. That's 25 years. The tracks are a lot more work. It's longer than a year each. We have 30 people working on the tracks.

In GT and GT2, both for PS1, a designer spent a day to model a car. In GT3 and GT4, for PS2, the same worker spent a month modeling the same care due to the increased amount of polygons. In GT5 for PS3, they require 6 months to do the same job.

We're before something immensely detailed. It's a lot of work. We could consider and I'd like to think Gran Turismo is like the benchmark, the acid test, to measure the limit of each console generation. At this point, I'd like to show the limits of Gran Turismo itself, or else we couldn't call it Gran Turismo. At least I could not. It's a great responsibility.

Regarding realism, when will we see car damage?

Yamauchi: Right now we're testing this. We will see car damage in GT5. There are three problems to solve though. Firstly, some car manufacturers don't care to see damage in their cars but others would never allow that. Some cars will be damaged and others won't, depending on the manufacturer. Secondly, the simulation. In Daytona Speedway, for instance, going slightly sideways when getting out of the banked curve and entering the straight section and hitting slightly the rear part of our car against the sides of the track will make our car become utter junk. Game over. It's a small mistake, but physics calculations tell us we'd undergo a 150 G force. That equals death. The car is literally disintegrated. We do not want that. We do not want to destroy the cars. I don't like that. That's ultrarealistic simulation, but if it happens, the game is over, you lose your car. I'm resisting to accept that kind of effect. Right now we're looking into how to make pure simulation and these kind of situations be compatible with each other. And the third problem, the fact that many driving games out there feature this kind of accidents, but I've never seen one which actually provide something positive or are perfect from a technical standpoint. I've got to think a lot about it yet, but I understand the series supporters do want damage and accidents because, for the better or worse, they're an integral part of reality.

 

[CyborgGT]

A designer spends roughly 6 months in average. 50 cars are 300 months. That's 25 years.

That sounds like 25 years with a single person designing every car in the game. Have multipe cars being designed simultaneously (as we know they're doing) and it drastically reduces the overall time it takes.

Regarding their physics calculations, don't NASCAR cars hit the wall all the time and not disintegrate?

 

[Tenacious D]

Regarding their physics calculations, don't NASCAR cars hit the wall all the time and not disintegrate?

Boy, I wouldn't say that. The drivers acknowledge that hitting anything at speeds approaching 200mph have the potential to destroy the car and kill you. I recall a video of Touring Cars leaving the track because of rain and just sliding through grass shredding their car.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

Regarding their physics calculations, don't NASCAR cars hit the wall all the time and not disintegrate?

It depends on the type of car you have. I don't know the specs on NASCAR's, but they definitely have more safety features (roll cages, and cages covering other parts of the car) in comparison to a stock street car. If you hit a wall at the same speed as a NASCAR in a street car, yes the car would probably disintegrate, inside and out, a lot easier than in a NASCAR. Even if a NASCAR flips over 3 or 4 the roll cage will still exist, even if the body shell rips apart. If you flip a street car, usually you can't tell what it was depending on speed.

But overall, it depends on the situation, the speed, the type of car, etc...there's definitely a lot involved. I'd be happy with some sort of damage at all though.

 

[RacingGameFan22]

:sigh:

Where's Scaff when you need him?

 

[Niks]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3173959

Rumors of a major PSP hardware redesign have repeatedly bubbled to the surface over the last several months -- some claiming the removal of the system's UMD disc drive, and others pointing to a second analog stick and sliding screen. According to sources directly involved with the new system, we have learned that Sony will quell those rumors by unveiling their revamped PSP at this year's E3 conference in June.

Many have speculated that the update would be called either the PSP 2 or PSP-4000, but our sources claim Sony will forgo a numerical moniker in favor of a subtitle. We've heard various rumored code names for the project (including PSP Slide, PSP Flip, and PSP Go!), but given that Sony has introduced the Go! brand of add-ons (the Go!View video on-demand service and 1.3 megapixel Go!Cam) for the European PSP, it seems likely that the new system will in fact be called the PSP Go! Our sources further confirm that this redesign will be available in two SKUs, with either eight or 16 GB of built-in flash memory. The system is set for release in Japan this September with a U.S. debut coming in either late October or early November.

In addition, since the UMD is going away, Sony will have over 100 classic and new PSP titles available for download at launch (Gran Turismo Mobile is said to be one of the premier launch titles). As for the hardware itself, the redesign will include a d-pad, analog nub, and face buttons as part of a sliding unit sticking out below the screen (as seen in our mockup above). Unfortunately for those looking for twin-stick shooter controls, the new system will not have a second analog stick, but instead will remain consistent with the current control configuration.

When asked about any of these details, Sony, of course, stated that it "does not comment on rumors or speculation."

As a bit of speculation, we wouldn't be surprised to see Sony borrow many design features from their Mylo 2 handheld Internet device, which is seemingly dead in the water. This could provide an 800x480 pixel touch screen for the system, as well as a camera on the system's backside.

Between the redesign and a strong lineup of recently announced PSP titles (see: Tekken 6 and Soul Calibur: Broken Destiny), Sony is clearly attempting to assert their relevance in the wake of the DSi's release and success of the iPhone as a gaming platform. It'll be interesting to see what sort of a splash Sony makes and the reaction the new hardware receives when it debuts at E3, which is only a month away. Preloading every PSP Go! with a copy of LittleBigPlanet would certainly make some waves.

The winds are whispering alright!

 

[mPWRD]

Regarding their physics calculations, don't NASCAR cars hit the wall all the time and not disintegrate?

NASCARs may be crude, but they are quite structurally sound. The chassis is steel (I think), and the crumple zones are big enough to withstand significant impact. So even if they hit a wall hard enough at 200 mph, I don't think they will disintegrate.

 

[The Gran Finale]

Niks, source of that article?

 

[Niks]

Source

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3173959

 

[mafia_boy]

Yamauchi: We will see car damage in GT5.

Thankyou KY for confirming this!! So, can we make an agreement from this moment that if we hear ANYONE whinge about damage and whether it's going to be in GT5 or not gets reported for not learning to read?? 💡

I'm putting that damage quote in my sig, just to make sure they see this in every post I make.

 

[Tenacious D]

At Talladega last Sunday, there was a typical crash towards the end of the race I believe, and there should be plenty of videos showing what happened.

 

[Patrik]

Thankyou KY for confirming this!! So, can we make an agreement from this moment that if we hear ANYONE whinge about damage and whether it's going to be in GT5 or not gets reported for not learning to read?? 💡

+1 👍

At Talladega last Sunday, there was a typical crash towards the end of the race I believe, and there should be plenty of videos showing what happened.

This one?

 

[yeti]

Gotta feel sorry for the guy who was spat out to left field but was holding his slide - until another car came out of nowhere and t-boned him.

C.

 

[FoolKiller]

Thankyou KY for confirming this!! So, can we make an agreement from this moment that if we hear ANYONE whinge about damage and whether it's going to be in GT5 or not gets reported for not learning to read?? 💡

I'm putting that damage quote in my sig, just to make sure they see this in every post I make.

Can we put it in the full context?

Yamauchi: Right now we're testing this. We will see car damage in GT5. There are three problems to solve though.

So, what if they do not solve the three problems?

 

[Blitz187]

Can we put it in the full context?


So, what if they do not solve the three problems?

Then I think we get no damage....

 

[G.T.Ace]

Three problems? Wth? Three? What kind of statement is that?