things I would do to improve NASCAR for the better

[marcus_war]

I think the Cup Series should do a test on the road course at Indianapolis. Probably not gonna happen, but it would be a marginal improvement over the crap on the oval. There have been a few times where the finish came down to the wire, but the fact that you can't get enough of a run on someone to make an improbable last lap pass from 4 car-lengths back means that if you're not close in turn 4, you won't win.


At least on the road course, even if it's an exhibition race, there are multiple outbraking zones. That being said, as an exhibition race, it'd be more of a test to see if this will work as a points event if people are willing to go to the track and watch the exhibition.

 

[Earth]

NASCAR doesn't need to expand internationally, they've tried it in the past before. Once again history escapes you @Earth

NASCAR doesn't need international expansion. They already have that.

NFL Europe failed - so should the NFL stop pursuing a team in London?

 

[Fastcarguy]

I think the Cup Series should do a test on the road course at Indianapolis. Probably not gonna happen, but it would be a marginal improvement over the crap on the oval. There have been a few times where the finish came down to the wire, but the fact that you can't get enough of a run on someone to make an improbable last lap pass from 4 car-lengths back means that if you're not close in turn 4, you won't win.


At least on the road course, even if it's an exhibition race, there are multiple outbraking zones. That being said, as an exhibition race, it'd be more of a test to see if this will work as a points event if people are willing to go to the track and watch the exhibition.

Agreed. They should do more than just left turns at 200 mph

 

[Earth]

Agreed. They should do more than just left turns at 200 mph

Then they should make a clockwise oval

 

[Adamgp]

NASCAR is an oval racing series, not a road racing series. Has been from the start.

Want to fix NASCAR? Kick Brian France to the curb and reset things back to where they were in 2000-2002.

Get rid of the chase, kick Toyota out, and bring back Winston as the title sponsor.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

NFL Europe failed - so should the NFL stop pursuing a team in London?

Better question why the hell should they go further then they already do. There is NASCAR Mexico, Nationwide has taken trips to Canada and there is nothing saying they wont or cant return, all that is needed is a Cup race there.

NASCAR is an oval racing series, not a road racing series. Has been from the start.

Want to fix NASCAR? Kick Brian France to the curb and reset things back to where they were in 2000-2002.

Get rid of the chase, kick Toyota out, and bring back Winston as the title sponsor.

Why kick Toyota out? And why the hell bring back Winston? If anything the only reason and the reason has always been the France family.

 

[Adamgp]

Why kick Toyota out? And why the hell bring back Winston? If anything the only reason and the reason has always been the France family.

Bringing Toyota in angered/drove away a lot of core fans, the ones that helped bring the sport to the level it was at in the mid 2000's. I remember being at the 2007 Daytona 500 (Toyota's first race in Cup) and what it was like.

Winston was dropped in an effort to be more politically correct. NASCAR was a lot more fun to watch back when they were so unashamedly un-PC, IMO.

 

[GTPorsche]

http://www.nascarwheleneuroseries.com/

I'll just leave that there...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Bringing Toyota in angered/drove away a lot of core fans, the ones that helped bring the sport to the level it was at in the mid 2000's. I remember being at the 2007 Daytona 500 (Toyota's first race in Cup) and what it was like.

You mean alot of the 'MURICA types that hardly have the collective brain cells left to get dressed in the morning (not talking about anyone here just people I've met) and accept the world outside their myopic bubble? Also those fans were still kept by a newer group the types that don't think like that and usually have a different political affiliation than the ones you're talking about. Also you being at the 2007 Daytona race doesn't prove that people weren't there because of Toyota...perhaps you forgot but the recession was starting its very heavy punishment of people and the monetary system.

Winston was dropped in an effort to be more politically correct. NASCAR was a lot more fun to watch back when they were so unashamedly un-PC, IMO.

Oh I see now...

Don't see how my interest hasn't fallen off from then to now. Not sure how being affiliated with Winston allowed NASCAR to be some cowboy and now they aren't. The sport is still the same and once again if it is worse it's due to the France family being about money as much as Bernie and F1. Thus taking out classic tracks just because they aren't in the France family chain or their cronies.

 

[GTPorsche]

Winston was dropped because tobacco sponsorships were being banned worldwide.

 

[Adamgp]

You mean alot of the 'MURICA types that hardly have the collective brain cells left to get dressed in the morning (not talking about anyone here just people I've met) and accept the world outside their myopic bubble? Also those fans were still kept by a newer group the types that don't think like that and usually have a different political affiliation than the ones you're talking about. Also you being at the 2007 Daytona race doesn't prove that people weren't there because of Toyota...perhaps you forgot but the recession was starting its very heavy punishment of people and the monetary system.

NASCAR's core fans are very patriotic group. Letting the Japanese into what was an American racing series pissed them off.

Didn't mean they didn't show up. I got a lot of crap from other fans for wearing a Tony Stewart #20 hat that year. Glad he left JGR A.S.A.P.

I know about the recession, but perhaps you forgot NASCAR's TV ratings started to take a dive that year?

Oh I see now...

Don't see how my interest hasn't fallen off from then to now. No sure how being affiliated with Winston allowed NASCAR to be some cowboy and now they aren't. The sport is still the same and once again if it is worse it's due to the France family being about money as much as Bernie and F1. Thus taking out classic tracks just because they aren't in the France family chain or their cronies.

I guess you missed the "IMO" at the end of that comment.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

NASCAR's core fans are very patriotic group. Letting the Japanese into what was an American racing series pissed them off.

Didn't mean they didn't show up. I got a lot of crap from other fans for wearing a Tony Stewart #20 hat that year. Glad he left JGR A.S.A.P.

I know about the recession, but perhaps you forgot NASCAR's TV ratings started to take a dive that year?

Can you prove it was due to Toyota? I dont care how Patriotic people think they are, it's quite asinine to shun a group that brought more manufacturing to the states at a point then their own domestic groups were doing, and the people that realized that are who supported Toyota. If that's the case that they were pissed off than oh well, maybe they should learn from Australia. Ford and Holden (Chevy) are as domestic to them as they are here, and they welcome Volvo and Nissan and Mercedes and I don't see them throwing a fuss or not showing up to races because of outside car makes.

I guess you missed the "IMO" at the end of that comment.

Okay and...I'm still going to argue it.

 

[A2K78]

NASCAR is an oval racing series, not a road racing series. Has been from the start.

Want to fix NASCAR? Kick Brian France to the curb and reset things back to where they were in 2000-2002.

Get rid of the chase, kick Toyota out, and bring back Winston as the title sponsor.

I agree that France part of the problem just as France has always been part of the problem for AMA SBK(the France family have all but removed all credibily from the championship given its current direction). As for road courses, but sorry road course pretty much always been part of stock car racing, however there have less emphasis on them and this is part of NASCAR's problem...too much focus on ovals and very little focus on road circuits. Funny thing even pundits are calling for more road course to be added.

As for Toyota, kicking them out won't solve a thing. If you did kick them out you might of just well call rename NASCAR to ChevyCAR especially when you consider the fact that Chevy's practically dominate the grid.

Anyhow what I really want to ephasis in this threat is the fact its 21st century is its really high time that NASCAR realize this. To put things in a better light, just as every other major racing championship whether your are talking about MotoGP, Indycar, or even F1 came to the reality that change is needed to keep the hardcore fans and at the same get new fans NASCAR needs to do the same.

Nobody is saying that NASCAR need to become F1 in but in reality changes are needed to the championship for the good of the american motorsport scene(which is struggling against stick and ball sports) and NASCAR itself.

 

[Adamgp]

Can you prove it was due to Toyota? I dont care how Patriotic people think they are, it's quite asinine to shun a group that brought more manufacturing to the states at a point then their own domestic groups were doing, and the people that realized that are who supported Toyota. If that's the case that they were pissed off than oh well, maybe they should learn from Australia. Ford and Holden (Chevy) are as domestic to them as they are here, and they welcome Volvo and Nissan and Mercedes and I don't see them throwing a fuss or not showing up to races because of outside car makes.

I kind of picked up on the Toyota hate by the way they were cheering every time one blew up or crashed. (2007 Daytona 500 was not a good showing for Toyota) Also, all the "You're a Stewart fan? You know he drives a Toyota don't you?" comments I got about my hat.

I've been down to Daytona every year since then and the Toyota hate has pretty much subsided.

I agree that France part of the problem just as France has always been part of the problem for AMA SBK(the France family have all but removed all credibily from the championship given its current direction). As for road courses, but sorry road course pretty much always been part of stock car racing, however there have less emphasis on them and this is part of NASCAR's problem...too much focus on ovals and very little focus on road circuits. Funny thing even pundits are calling for more road course to be added.

Since NASCAR was formed as an organized sport it has been (primarily) an oval track series. Hence the focus on oval tracks.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I kind of picked up on the Toyota hate by the way they were cheering every time one blew up or crashed. (2007 Daytona 500 was not a good showing for Toyota) Also, all the "You're a Stewart fan? You know he drives a Toyota don't you?" comments I got about my hat.

I've been down to Daytona every year since then and the Toyota hate has pretty much subsided.

Okay one race of the season doesn't provide sufficient evidence to say "yeah Toyota in NASCAR has forever ruined NASCAR"

Yeah I'm sure the Toyota hate is gone because just like all things introduced to racing it is a big deal for a very short time and then people move on to something else. Race fans aren't happy if there isn't something to complain about.

 

[Ganon83]

Yeah Winston was more or less forced out, although pretty sure they'd of been gone eventually regardless because of NASCAR trying to promote a family friendly brand from 2004 to "Boys, have at it".
95% of Toyota hate was gone by 2009, when the actual Toyota teams (MWR and RBR, teams that weren't established at all before Toyota unlike JGR) started winning races finally.
And the reason why NASCAR is an oval track series is simple- road courses aren't seen as big a draw in America as ovals. I feel they could if promoted right, but most of the decision makers don't think so.
Oh, and road courses do not have a very illustrious history in NASCAR. For many years the only road course races on the schedule were two Riverside races per year. The first was ran in the early 1950's on a makeshift track on an airport and was won by a Jaguar (Yes, Toyota wasn't the first foreign make to win). The race didn't return and outside of random stops at Road America and Watkins Glen (It wasn't a regular race on the schedule until the 80's), road course racing didn't return until they started going to Riverside regularly in the early 60's.

 

[BKGlover]

All it takes is one person in a position to do it to knuckle down and change minds.

 

[Adamgp]

Okay one race of the season doesn't provide sufficient evidence to say "yeah Toyota in NASCAR has forever ruined NASCAR"

Didn't say that Toyota "forever ruined NASCAR" now, did I? Also, TV ratings were down the whole season, not just for the 500.

Yeah I'm sure the Toyota hate is gone because just like all things introduced to racing it is a big deal for a very short time and then people move on to something else. Race fans aren't happy if there isn't something to complain about.

Perhaps they realized they were powerless to do anything about it?

 

[Ganon83]

There will always be a very vocal minority against Toyota. There's a reason why when Jack Roush said them being in the sport was like going to war and referencing Pearl Harbor he wasn't black balled by anybody in the sport (Outside of possibly sponsors? Because a team co-owned by Fenway not having full sponsorship for 3 cars is inexplicable)

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Didn't say that Toyota "forever ruined NASCAR" now, did I? Also, TV ratings were down the whole season, not just for the 500.

No you just implied it, hence you want to remove them and return NASCAR to a "domestic racing only" group. If you think it still needs to be removed after almost 10 years of being in the sport, then it's not too far of to say you think the sport is tainted today and probably tomorrow (meaning years not the literal tomorrow).

Perhaps they realized they were powerless to do anything about it?

Or more simply they just got over it...

 

[Adamgp]

No you just implied it, hence you want to remove them and return NASCAR to a "domestic racing only" group. If you think it still needs to be removed after almost 10 years of being in the sport, then it's not too far of to say you think the sport is tainted today and probably tomorrow (meaning years not the literal tomorrow).

I didn't imply, you misinterpreted. And your speculation of what I think is also wrong.

Or more simply they just got over it...

Either way, they couldn't do anything about it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I didn't imply, you misinterpreted. And your speculation of what I think is also wrong.

Then why'd you say you'd get rid of it? That isn't me misinterpreting anything you actually said that you would get rid of Toyota. And you gave a reason because people aren't fans of it...which is great but the thread asks what you would change. Without saying it it then becomes why would you change those things? And the reason seems to be because you yourself don't want to see Toyota in there either. You could give a convoluted reason saying "well that's not true because I supported them when Stewart was driving them" which says more about your fandom to Stewart than the brand of car he is in.

Anyways though you claim it means nothing, and I'm simply saying if it means nothing and there is a very small minority that still cant stand a Japanese make in NASCAR. Then what would changing that bit of NASCAR provide to the sport, especially a change that you don't seem to be in favor of yourself from your new rhetoric now.

 

[Adamgp]

Then why'd you say you'd get rid of it? That isn't me misinterpreting anything you actually said that you would get rid of Toyota. And you gave a reason because people aren't fans of it...which is great but the thread asks what you would change. Without saying it it then becomes why would you change those things? And the reason seems to be because you yourself don't want to see Toyota in there either. You could give a convoluted reason saying "well that's not true because I supported them when Stewart was driving them" which says more about your fandom to Stewart than the brand of car he is in.

You're missing the main point of what I originally said and focusing on the Toyota part. I'll recap it for you, basically it change the sport back to what it was when it was growing year by year and gaining fans year by year. Brian France tried to fix what wasn't broke. That is what I would change to fix NASCAR, since you didn't pick up on it before.

Yes I am a Stewart fan, have been from the start. No, I didn't like when he drove a Camry. Neither did he, hence why he left JGR A.S.A.P. even before his contract was up. Great move by him, IMO. Supported the driver, not Toyota, just to clear it up for you.

Anyways though you claim it means nothing, and I'm simply saying if it means nothing and there is a very small minority that still cant stand a Japanese make in NASCAR. Then what would changing that bit of NASCAR provide to the sport, especially a change that you don't seem to be in favor of yourself from your new rhetoric now.

If you think it means nothing, why the need to start an argument about it?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're missing the main point of what I originally said and focusing on the Toyota part. I'll recap it for you, basically it change the sport back to what it was when it was growing year by year and gaining fans year by year. Brian France tried to fix what wasn't broke. That is what I would change to fix NASCAR, since you didn't pick up on it before.

One don't need you to recap, two no disrespect but your ideas weren't any good. Going backwards in time and using it as a crutch is as bad as the drivel produced by Earth. Also going back to that model doesn't prove any growth from where it stands now will occur, also it's probably grown less and less due to thing others have said. People will only tolerate watching cars go around similar ovals for so long before they say "well nothing new here". Same goes for tolerating the same driver winning championships year after year. Also he didn't try to fix what wasn't broke, he tried to milk the cow beyond its limit and is still trying to. None of the changes you suggest lead me or others to believe that it will help NASCAR in anyway.

Yes I am a Stewart fan, have been from the start. No, I didn't like when he drove a Camry. Neither did he, hence why he left JGR A.S.A.P. even before his contract was up. Great move by him, IMO. Supported the driver, not Toyota, just to clear it up for you.

He left JGR not because he hated Toyota, it was bad for his image and the chain of Chevy dealerships he owns. Also the part in bold from your quote is what I said you did in my last post. I love when I hear an echo

If you think it means nothing, why the need to start an argument about it?

If you want me to put it simple because it's a forum and that is what people tend to do, so thus I am doing such. More so because you stated something I found to be asinine trite, from a myopic view point of what usually is associated with NASCAR and why many other fans of other Motor sports make fun of it and talk it down.

 

[Wilbur]

I have never in my life understood the hate some folks have for Toyota period; it didn't ruin the sport at all. Geez...get a grip on things, the COT ruined racing for awhile and we will leave that part at that. Toyota might not have been so liked at first but most true race fans have moved past that instead of complaining (which tend to be the same ones who dislike Dillon in the 3 or still get upset of Dale Sr passing).

It seems like Nascar fans are afraid of change in general! There are things I haven't liked and things I loved, but overall the series is going to have it's ups and downs...NOTHING stays on a positive forever. Right now they are in a rebuilding phase and doing pretty decent at getting the racing back to where it was before. Look at the first few races of each level, different winners...some surprise but the top dogs aren't just blowing everyone away either.

I do miss the older style cars from the early 2000's, I miss how exciting it was to be at a race but that was win I was younger.

 

[Adamgp]

One don't need you to recap, two no disrespect but your ideas weren't any good. Going backwards in time and using it as a crutch is as bad as the drivel produced by Earth. Also going back to that model doesn't prove any growth from where it stands now will occur, also it's probably grown less and less due to thing others have said. People will only tolerate watching cars go around similar ovals for so long before they say "well nothing new here". Same goes for tolerating the same driver winning championships year after year. Also he didn't try to fix what wasn't broke, he tried to milk the cow beyond its limit and is still trying to. None of the changes you suggest lead me or others to believe that it will help NASCAR in anyway.

Apparently you need a recap since you still don't get it. I just stated an opinion of how to get NASCAR back on track. That they aren't any good is your opinion. You're not changing my opinion. You don't like what I said? Too bad. There are a bunch of ideas in this thread I don't agree with, I chose to scroll right on by and not start an argument about it that goes on for days. Maybe you should learn to tolerate opinions of others.

One more time, I stated an opinion on what I would do to bring the sport back up to the level it was, as everyone else in this thread has done. It seems you, as a Toyota fan took it way to seriously as if I had the power to make those changes.

He left JGR not because he hated Toyota, it was bad for his image and the chain of Chevy dealerships he owns. Also the part in bold from your quote is what I said you did in my last post. I love when I hear an echo

He does not like Toyota, it was the deciding factor in him leaving JGR. And yes he is a Chevy guy.

Also, about the bold part, here is what you said because you forgot apparently:

You could give a convoluted reason saying "well that's not true because I supported them when Stewart was driving them" which says more about your fandom to Stewart than the brand of car he is in.

I never supported Toyota as you wrote, just the driver. No echo, maybe you need your ears cleaned out.

If you want me to put it simple because it's a forum and that is what people tend to do, so thus I am doing such. More so because you stated something I found to be asinine trite, from a myopic view point of what usually is associated with NASCAR and why many other fans of other Motor sports make fun of it and talk it down.

NASCAR fans don't care what fans of other series think about them or their sport.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Apparently you need a recap since you still don't get it. I just stated an opinion of how to get NASCAR back on track. That they aren't any good is your opinion. You're not changing my opinion. You don't like what I said? Too bad. There are a bunch of ideas in this thread I don't agree with, I chose to scroll right on by and not start an argument about it that goes on for days. Maybe you should learn to tolerate opinions of others.

I don't care if you stated an opinion or not, I don't agree with it thus we are here. If you don't want to defend it and rather inform me that it is just an opinion then say so. As of now you sound like "I don't want to debate man I just want to state my opinion with out any friction caused". Too bad your on a forum and others can counter your myopic black and white view. Also as you can see I don't choose to do that, this is a forum not a blog so you might want to get use to the stark contrasts between the two. Also how am I not tolerating your opinion? Did I say your a moron or anything belittling about your opinion? Not at all. Me disagreeing with your opinion doesn't mean I don't tolerate it what kind of sideways thinking is that?

One more time, I stated an opinion on what I would do to bring the sport back up to the level it was, as everyone else in this thread has done. It seems you, as a Toyota fan took it way to seriously as if I had the power to make those changes.

And once again that isn't a shield to hide behind so people don't state a counter opinion against yours. Now I'm a Toyota fan because I think it's naive to hate them due to not being a domestic car maker? Maybe you haven't noticed in the NASCAR thread that I am a massive Junior fan or what my avatar stands for. I'm accepting of Toyota or any other make wanting to be in NASCAR and there is a early history of other car makes being in NASCAR that weren't only American.

He does not like Toyota, it was the deciding factor in him leaving JGR. And yes he is a Chevy guy.

It goes beyond that, he owns chevy dealers and people wanting to buy them from him may question why he races a Toyota, thus it's bad for his business. Find a damn quote saying he said this and then you'll have validity. Even if doesn't like them it wasn't the exclusive decision as you seem to make it out as.

Also, about the bold part, here is what you said because you forgot apparently:

I never supported Toyota as you wrote, just the driver. No echo, maybe you need your ears cleaned out.

Are you dense? Read the entire quote, I didn't say you were a fan of Toyota. It says that you could make up a BS excuse and claim that you were because Stewart drove. However, I go on to say it's obviously it's "...more about the fandom to Stewart than the brand of car he is is. Which is saying your a massive fan of Stewart and he could be driving a freaking Yugo and you'd still support him. How you cant understand this diction is beyond me.

NASCAR fans don't care what fans of other series think about them or their sport.

Yeah I know I don't care, thanks for telling me something I was already aware of for the past 20 years.

 

[Adamgp]

I don't care if you stated an opinion or not, I don't agree with it thus we are here. If you don't want to defend it and rather inform me that it is just an opinion then say so. As of now you sound like "I don't want to debate man I just want to state my opinion with out any friction caused". Too bad your on a forum and others can counter your myopic black and white view. Also as you can see I don't choose to do that, this is a forum not a blog so you might want to get use to the stark contrasts between the two. Also how am I not tolerating your opinion? Did I say your a moron or anything belittling about your opinion? Not at all. Me disagreeing with your opinion doesn't mean I don't tolerate it what kind of sideways thinking is that?

I gave an opinion, you questioned it, I explained it, and gave my reasons for said opinion. Learn to accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you.

And once again that isn't a shield to hide behind so people don't state a counter opinion against yours. Now I'm a Toyota fan because I think it's naive to hate them due to not being a domestic car maker? Maybe you haven't noticed in the NASCAR thread that I am a massive Junior fan or what my avatar stands for. I'm accepting of Toyota or any other make wanting to be in NASCAR and there is a early history of other car makes being in NASCAR that weren't only American.

You still don't get it. It's not a "shield to hide behind", it was an explanation of my opinion. What is so hard to get?

It goes beyond that, he owns chevy dealers and people wanting to buy them from him may question why he races a Toyota, thus it's bad for his business. Find a damn quote saying he said this and then you'll have validity. Even if doesn't like them it wasn't the exclusive decision as you seem to make it out as.

Yes, he owns dealerships. Thanks for repeating that. He also didn't like driving a Toyota.

http://nascar.about.com/od/tonystewart/a/stewartleavejgr.htm

http://voices.yahoo.com/tony-stewart-leaves-joe-gibbs-racing-own-his-own-1655067.html

Bro, do you even Google? Just about everything I find list JGR's switch to Toyota as the deciding factor for him leaving before his contract was up.

Are you dense? Read the entire quote, I didn't say you were a fan of Toyota. It says that you could make up a BS excuse and claim that you were because Stewart drove. However, I go on to say it's obviously it's "...more about the fandom to Stewart than the brand of car he is is. Which is saying your a massive fan of Stewart and he could be driving a freaking Yugo and you'd still support him. How you cant understand this diction is beyond me.

Are you dense? I read it. I didn't make up a BS excuse, I didn't magically love Toyota in 2008 because Smoke was driving one. I'll state it again, fan of the driver, not the car. How you can't comprehend that is beyond me.

Yeah I know I don't care, thanks for telling me something I was already aware of for the past 20 years.

You cared enough to type out that paragraph, and well, since you brought it up, I responded.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I gave an opinion, you questioned it, I explained it, and gave my reasons for said opinion. Learn to accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you.

You hardly did such and then you decided to use an emotional plea for me to leave you alone, which was asinine.

You still don't get it. It's not a "shield to hide behind", it was an explanation of my opinion. What is so hard to get?

No it's not any longer, you made claims that you couldn't back up and then claim opinion so I leave you alone once again.

Yes, he owns dealerships. Thanks for repeating that. He also didn't like driving a Toyota.

You're welcome.

http://nascar.about.com/od/tonystewart/a/stewartleavejgr.htm

http://voices.yahoo.com/tony-stewart-leaves-joe-gibbs-racing-own-his-own-1655067.html

Bro, do you even Google? Just about everything I find list JGR's switch to Toyota as the deciding factor for him leaving before his contract was up.

Bro do you even know how to do formal argumentation. You make a claim and you prove it by providing evidence. I'm not going to go find your claim for you because I didn't make the claim and it's your responsibility. If you don't like that then you should have ignored my initial objection and we wouldn't be here.

Are you dense? I read it. I didn't make up a BS excuse, I didn't magically love Toyota in 2008 because Smoke was driving one. I'll state it again, fan of the driver, not the car. How you can't comprehend that is beyond me.

I know you're a fan of the driver, I stated that before you even told me. You not having the comprehension to see that even after I explained it is beyond me. The fact that you want to use wording I posed against you against me is funny. I never said you were a Toyota fan at all. I said you could make a bull:censored: excuse and claim so, to be politically correct.

You cared enough to type out that paragraph, and well, since you brought it up, I responded.

It's a sentence that talks about it not an entire paragraph, hyperbole seems to be a strong point of yours. And though I don't care that people dislike NASCAR for stupid reasons or stereotypes, I think its equally stupid to perpetuate them. Which is what you seem to be doing or wanting to allow. You've yet to prove or even demonstrate how a foreign car make leaving and bringing back a tobacco company as the title sponsor (which has been banned) will help with growth.

 

[Adamgp]

You hardly did such and then you decided to use an emotional plea for me to leave you alone, which was asinine.

That's exactly what I did. I gave an opinion on what I thought would fix the sport, then defended it. I didn't use an emotional plea, I merely asked you to accept that not everyone thinks the same way you do. You don't appear to be a very tolerant person.

No it's not any longer, you made claims that you couldn't back up and then claim opinion so I leave you alone once again.

I backed them up. It was just an opinion. Anything getting through?

You're welcome.



Bro do you even know how to do formal argumentation. You make a claim and you prove it by providing evidence. I'm not going to go find your claim for you because I didn't make the claim and it's your responsibility. If you don't like that then you should have ignored my initial objection and we wouldn't be here.

Your claim that he left JGR "because he owned a Chevy dealership" is a joke. Anyone who bought a car from his dealership, who knew who Tony was, would know he was just a driver at JGR. He had no control and no say over the manufacturer switch.

Now if he formed SHR where he had control over what manufacturer the team raced, and fielded Toyotas while he still had the Chevy dealership, your point may have made sense.

FYI, Rick Hendrick owns Chrysler/Dodge & Toyota dealerships, among his many others. Owning a dealership of a competing manufacturer in NASCAR is not the big deal you claim it to be.

Also, you never provided any sources to back up your claim either. Practice what you preach.

I know you're a fan of the driver, I stated that before you even told me. You not having the comprehension to see that even after I explained it is beyond me. The fact that you want to use wording I posed against you against me is funny. I never said you were a Toyota fan at all. I said you could make a bull:censored: excuse and claim so, to be politically correct.

Then your speculation was I could claim I "liked Toyota while Stewart drove one" is wrong. Never made such claim.

It's a sentence that talks about it not an entire paragraph, hyperbole seems to be a strong point of yours. And though I don't care that people dislike NASCAR for stupid reasons or stereotypes, I think its equally stupid to perpetuate them. Which is what you seem to be doing or wanting to allow. You've yet to prove or even demonstrate how a foreign car make leaving and bringing back a tobacco company as the title sponsor (which has been banned) will help with growth.

See, you did care.

Again, all I did was gave an opinion on what I would do to turn the sport around. Many others did it, as it is what the thread was about before you derailed it trying to tell me my opinions were wrong.

What I said NASCAR needs to do is no more or less likely to happen than the other suggestions in this thread. (Re-arranging the whole schedule, eliminating tracks, adding a bunch of other manufacturers, holding races outside the US, etc.) So you can rest easy.