This game seems to neuter your car's performance when you use assists

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Nauraushaun

Nauraushaun

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Nauraushaun
I just found out, while competing in a time trial competition that putting on assists actually reduces the power of your car.
I found that, after turning on ABS which would in theory let me brake harder and later and produce a better time, I was setting laps that were 5-10 seconds slower. I thought this was insane, so I was fiddling between settings, and I realized that with ABS set to just 1/10, the ghost would ditch me at the start of the race, whereas with ABS set to off I could keep with him until the first corner.

So this game has catch-up, as well as some sort of weird assist balancing thing that makes unassisted cars more powerful. What the hell, GT? Simulator my ass. Anyone else noticed this, or has a solution?
 
You have to drive on the edge of out of control to be fast. Assists help maintain control so you will not be as fast with them on.
 
Dunno, but shouldn't there be a trade off when using the assists?

Realism aside, this does make sense from a gaming point of view. Trading performance for ease of use.
Otherwise, everyone would just run the full set of assists.
 
The only time i used the assists was in A spec Formula GT. And it was a case of having to. Thing is, yeah the car was a little slower maybe in the corners but not all that much and on the upside, I won the championship. Any other races and the only thing thats left on is ABS set to 1.
 
I noticed this in the Jeff Gordon special events, the car just goes much faster with ABS off. Why ABS affects the car this way I don't know, it should have nothing to do with acceleration and speed.
 
There are cases in certain time trials where the stability management is forced on which does slow you down... however if you turn ABS off it overrides that and forces the stability off as well, thus increasing your usable power.
 
Thats exactly the way it should be. They tell you on the description of everything what the advantages and disadvantages are. It wouldn't make sense to make your car handle better and still make it faster. If you need it to handle better you should lose a little speed in the process to even things out.
 
I can tell you, if you have a Porche Boxter with TCS on in real life, it performs like crap. You get snap understeer randomly and it overall makes you look like a dink to anyone watching.
 
but they dont drop your horsepower, that is just the trade off of having a tool to assist you that uses the brakes to accomplish its task.

Stability managment will slow you down, it clamps the appropriate opposite corner brake to bring the car back into the desired attitude.

gold_ultima
I can tell you, if you have a Porche Boxter with TCS on in real life, it performs like crap. You get snap understeer randomly and it overall makes you look like a dink to anyone watching.
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Thats the drivers problem not the car or its managment systems.

You have to know your tools - bad craftsmen always blame their tools ;)
 
Turbonutter
There are cases in certain time trials where the stability management is forced on which does slow you down... however if you turn ABS off it overrides that and forces the stability off as well, thus increasing your usable power.
Click to expand...
^This. ABS is not corrupting the power, it's having the ASM on. You can turn off ASM, leave ABS on, and you should be good.
 
Luminis
Dunno, but shouldn't there be a trade off when using the assists?

Realism aside, this does make sense from a gaming point of view. Trading performance for ease of use.
Otherwise, everyone would just run the full set of assists.
Click to expand...
No there shouldn't, because this claims to be a sim, which means realism takes precedence over game balancing.
Gizmo517
Thats exactly the way it should be. They tell you on the description of everything what the advantages and disadvantages are. It wouldn't make sense to make your car handle better and still make it faster. If you need it to handle better you should lose a little speed in the process to even things out.
Click to expand...
But it does make sense, because that's what would really happen!
gold_ultima
I can tell you, if you have a Porche Boxter with TCS on in real life, it performs like crap. You get snap understeer randomly and it overall makes you look like a dink to anyone watching.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didn't have TCS on, because it makes the car much better to drive when it's off. ABS helps you, because braking without locking up is extremely difficult with a DualShock controller, and you can never quite do it as good as a computer could.

I'm saying it reduces your power. Even before you've hit any corners, you're moving slower and accelerating slower than the ghost that has all assists off. Maybe an experienced driver could drive better with no assists, but when you're driving in a straight line ABS should have absolutely no effect whatsoever.
 
Gizmo517
Thats exactly the way it should be. They tell you on the description of everything what the advantages and disadvantages are. It wouldn't make sense to make your car handle better and still make it faster. If you need it to handle better you should lose a little speed in the process to even things out.
Click to expand...

While it feels right to say that its not necessarily true... For instance abs... There is really no downside. Braking distance is as good or better and you can steer while braking without fear or locking up. Its literally just the best way to do things.
 
McLaren
^This. ABS is not corrupting the power, it's having the ASM on. You can turn off ASM, leave ABS on, and you should be good.
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This.

Other members have noted this before. Turning off ABS turns off ASM, too. You likely have ASM on and have not noticed it.

In real life, ASM (or ESP, as most manufacturers call it) really kills mid-corner and corner exit performance. Noticeably so if you're driving just at or over the limit. Which is why most people turn it off for track use, and why most of us turn absolutely everything but ABS off in-game.
 
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ASM, that's the terrible assist.

I would recommend never using it (Par the FGT Championship... :)). It drastically slows you down, whereas the others I would say slow you down maybe slightly, but definitely not to that much of an extent.
 
I must say that I'm glad that ASM can be turned off in the RA menu during the expert NASCAR special event (It is locked to ON in the prerace setup). I could carry about 30km/h more speed through the corners with it off.
 
Yeah, so what's wrong with it? Aids should make you significantly slower because it will not allow you to exploit the vehicle's full performance.

Take a traction control system which in real life applies the brakes to the wheels spinning and even cuts engine power when deemed necessary. Some cars seem completely dead and bogged down with traction engaged. Drive a V8 Lexus with the TRAC system turned on and it takes all of the fun away.

Same goes for stability control systems in 99% of cases. Only finely-tuned stability management systems could possibly make you quicker - such as the "Competitive Driving" stability mode Corvettes come with, or an aggressive setting in "M-Dynamic-Mode" on a current M3 for example.
 
I haven't had any problems with the ABS. The ASM is f'ing crap though, way worse than it was in GT4. I saw the ASM was on by default in the Suzuka S-License test, and when I switched it off I beat it easily.
 
GT master42
Yeah, so what's wrong with it? Aids should make you significantly slower because it will not allow you to exploit the vehicle's full performance.

Take a traction control system which in real life applies the brakes to the wheels spinning and even cuts engine power when deemed necessary. Some cars seem completely dead and bogged down with traction engaged. Drive a V8 Lexus with the TRAC system turned on and it takes all of the fun away.

Same goes for stability control systems in 99% of cases. Only finely-tuned stability management systems could possibly make you quicker - such as the "Competitive Driving" stability mode Corvettes come with, or an aggressive setting in "M-Dynamic-Mode" on a current M3 for example.
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This is ture. It took me quite a few track events to be able to utilize my real life car closer to its full potential with the ASM set to Off than when it was set to Competive Mode.

In Competive Mode the car will let you get yourself in all sorts of trouble before it steps in to save the car (and you) - where as in On Mode it was trying to curb the fun before it started. ;) So youget a chance to really push your car with a safety net when you run in Competive Mode. Then one day yourealise you can turn it all off. Although, it only takes 1 real "OOOOHHHH CHIT!!!!" moment to make you realise you have to drive thi scar home afterwards and pay for it yourself, so you go ahead and turn it back to Comp and enjoy the rest of the outing :lol:

Since it's a game we are playing, just turn that sucker off and have a ball at full power I say.
 
for GOD sake, the man is asking for something different, i.e at the beginning of the race before any turn at the straight, so dont keep telling that assists slows you down in the corners we all know that, please read before posting
 
For those events where ASM is forced on (some of the license tests and the NASCAR challenges) you can disable it by switching off ABS.

How does this work? The ASM system needs the ABS system to work... when the car starts to slide with ASM on the ASM system uses the ABS system to brake individual wheels and correct the slide. If the ABS is off the ASM can't work.

Impressive that PD have modelled the physics as per how these systems work in real life rather than talking the simple route of making them 2 seperate bits of programming.
 
ASM stands for Anti Speed Mechanism :)

As for TC. Have you seen the Topgear video of them driving a Lamborghini on an Ice track. It didn't hit anything but it didn't exactly go fast either. More sort of walking speed.
 
samiazza
for GOD sake, the man is asking for something different, i.e at the beginning of the race before any turn at the straight, so dont keep telling that assists slows you down in the corners we all know that, please read before posting
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Calm down and cut the attitude please.

If you can't post without showing at least a degree of respect for other members then don't post at all.



Scaff
 
RC45
but they dont drop your horsepower, that is just the trade off of having a tool to assist you that uses the brakes to accomplish its task.

Stability managment will slow you down, it clamps the appropriate opposite corner brake to bring the car back into the desired attitude.



Thats the drivers problem not the car or its managment systems.

You have to know your tools - bad craftsmen always blame their tools ;)
Click to expand...

No, the Porche Boxters (at least the early versions) have terrible TCS. If you turn it off, you can drive fine. Ask anyone who has driven one. Most traction controls are terrible and ruin drivability at race speeds. It's like how early ABS was. The 240sx had a very early version of ABS that was actually considerably worse than a human controlling braking. Nowadays ABS is great, but in terms of TCS, unless your car is in the range of Ferraris, then it's not even competent. Even when it is in that range, it's still not as good as driving with it off if you are skilled. Hence why racing drivers turn it off when going for time attacks.
 
I never noticed the game capping horsepower when turning on driving aids.. The only racing game I knew that did something similar was wipeout hd ? :p
 
Want an advise if you´re having problems with the ASM slowing your car in Jeff Gordon´s challange? Turn off the ASM, and you´ll get gold at the first try. You´re going to say ASM is locked in "on", but if you set up the controller in certain way, you can deactivate it while doing the race. Got all golds yesterday doing this. I felt like I was cheating, but isn´t using assists on cheating anyway?
 
There is some issue definitely with ABS reducing HP - don't know about the other assists.

I played 30-40 times the last Jeff Gordon event and could barely manage 5th position after really good driving. I was desperate as to how I could win the gold.

I then check youtube and the guy made some remarks tha you must switch off ABS to win it.

So I tried it with ABS off and won the gold easily on my 2nd attempt. Mind you there is no need to brake at all in this event - it has nothing to do with the actual work of ABS.

It does not make sense to cut HP for having the ABS ON but IT IS a fact (at least in this J.Gordon event).
 
Bluez_Freak
There is some issue definitely with ABS reducing HP - don't know about the other assists.

I played 30-40 times the last Jeff Gordon event and could barely manage 5th position after really good driving. I was desperate as to how I could win the gold.

I then check youtube and the guy made some remarks tha you must switch off ABS to win it.

So I tried it with ABS off and won the gold easily on my 2nd attempt. Mind you there is no need to brake at all in this event - it has nothing to do with the actual work of ABS.

It does not make sense to cut HP for having the ABS ON but IT IS a fact (at least in this J.Gordon event).
Click to expand...

This has already been explained.

Stotty
For those events where ASM is forced on (some of the license tests and the NASCAR challenges) you can disable it by switching off ABS.

How does this work? The ASM system needs the ABS system to work... when the car starts to slide with ASM on the ASM system uses the ABS system to brake individual wheels and correct the slide. If the ABS is off the ASM can't work.

Impressive that PD have modelled the physics as per how these systems work in real life rather than talking the simple route of making them 2 seperate bits of programming.
Click to expand...
 
Bluez_Freak
There is some issue definitely with ABS reducing HP - don't know about the other assists.

I played 30-40 times the last Jeff Gordon event and could barely manage 5th position after really good driving. I was desperate as to how I could win the gold.

I then check youtube and the guy made some remarks tha you must switch off ABS to win it.

So I tried it with ABS off and won the gold easily on my 2nd attempt. Mind you there is no need to brake at all in this event - it has nothing to do with the actual work of ABS.

It does not make sense to cut HP for having the ABS ON but IT IS a fact (at least in this J.Gordon event).
Click to expand...

I tried that, but it didn´t work for me. Like I said above, it is the ASM what kills the car. If you manage to setup the controller to be able to deactivate the assists while racing, and turn off the ASM, you´ll see the difference.
 

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