This weeks new Aston: DBS Volante

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Reventón;3322426
Those are the exact definitions I have been going by.
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I figured as much, since you quoted the article (without citing it) earlier.

Scroll down to the bottom and have a look at "Convertible Gallery" for me. Or the part where it say "Convertible Variations" (take note of the first one)...

Oh, but far be it from you to quote the parts of your source which disagree with you, eh?


You now have an industry professional telling you that convertible is any car which goes between roofed and roofless, with subsets thereof like roadster... Is he wrong?
 
Imakuni
Famine is right with everything he has said so far and has taken the time to break down his points so that they are very easy to understand and remember.

I don't know if other members are thinking the same, but to me you're starting to look a bit daft (I did have a small giggle at the part about a roadster/targa not being a convertible).
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If he's right, why does Venari (who Famine claims is agreeing with him) quote sources that say otherwise to Famine's point?

Why? Because Famine isn't right about everything he's said so far.
 
Reventón;3322437
If he's right, why does Venari (who Famine claims is agreeing with him) quote sources that say otherwise to Famine's point?

Why? Because Famine isn't right about everything he's said so far.
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See the post above by Famine 👍
 
The Roadster page on the Wiki isn't very good...Looks like that would be a car that would either have no roof ever or only a completely removable one (such as the S2000 CR only having a hardtop)...right?


And Famine, what are you saying about the Miata not being a convertible if using the definition of having a folding top? You completely lost me at that...
 
Eric.
And Famine, what are you saying about the Miata not being a convertible if using the definition of having a folding top? You completely lost me at that...
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Sorry about that.

It was Reventón's definition of convertible (a vehicle where the roof folds away) which actually excludes the MX-5 from being a convertible (the roof does not fold away) - except for the Mk3 MX-5 Roadster Coupe (the roof folds away).


Luckily, the automotive industry doesn't agree with him.
 
Famine
Sorry about that.

It was Reventón's definition of convertible (a vehicle where the roof folds away) which actually excludes the MX-5 from being a convertible (the roof does not fold away) - except for the Mk3 MX-5 Roadster Coupe (the roof folds away).


Luckily, the automotive industry doesn't agree with him.
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His definition was: "A Convertible is any car whose roof can retract and fold away."

Isn't that what every Miata has done, or are you interpreting that to mean that it tucks away to the trunk like the folding hardtop model NC? Because all of the soft top models retract and fold away...

Sounds like you're being too specific with that point. I consider "folds away" to mean that the top is no longer up, and with the soft top Miatas it does fold out of the way...It just doesn't disappear the way you're using the phrase.
 
Interesting. I determined the "away" part to literally mean out of sight - whereas the MX-5's folds down and rests behind the driver (albeit in a recess, unlike the Mini and Beetle cabriolets - which are cabriolet convertibles). Though you can, of course, fit a tonneau over it to place it out of sight (but it takes forever).

Oddly, the first two generations of MX-5 were branded "Roadster" in Japan (Eunos Roadster for the Mk1 NA and Mazda Roadster for the Mk2/2.5 NB). Though of course they aren't roadsters...
 
Reventón;3322426
Those are the exact definitions I have been going by.
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They quite clearly arn't since the wiki page quite clearly mentions a detachable roof being a form of convertible. Near the start when it says "Roofs are affixed to the body of the vehicle and are usually not detachable" it isn't excluding cars where the roof is detachable it's just making a generalisation that more convertibles have an attached roof in one way or another. It later on has a paragraph about detachable hard tops. Again further down still it categorises this as a variation of a convertible "Originally the term roadster suggested a minimal convertible, possibly with a frame that required actual assembly (i.e., not retracting) and separately installable soft "window" panels — offering little protection from inclement weather and requiring a time-consuming, complicated installation. A contemporary roadster is a two-seater convertible."

You are wrong, I suggest if you want to continue this debate that you ignore petty personal definitions and get back to the original point.
 
Dave A
Near the start when it says "Roofs are affixed to the body of the vehicle and are usually not detachable"
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I was just about to make that same point myself. As the Elise's roof is detachable, by definition it comes under anything not covered in "usually not detachable". It also folds away, which is the other definition - it's just that it needs significant assistance by hand to fold it away, rather than pressing a button or simply flinging it back like you'd do in an MX-5.

Rev: The Elise is a convertible. It is also a roadster. Full stop.
 
Rev, you do realize when you quoted dictionary.com, that those aren't all criteria, but different definitions. Thus if any of them apply (not all of them) the definition holds.

Everything Famine has stated has supported his argument. You have been selectively quoting yourself, sources, him, and everyone else in some absurd attempt to say they are wrong.

On the convertible aspect, just look at the word - convert. Which is to simply have something that can change form. By just looking at the origin of the word, it is clear any car that can convert from being an enclosed, covered car to a open air car would qualify.

And if you want to go by popular opinion, you are the only person at this point that claims that a roadster is not a convertible.

It seems now you are trying to back pedal on a mistake to make yourself look better, but in actuality you are simply making your position look even less credible.
 
Azuremen
On the convertible aspect, just look at the word - convert. Which is to simply have something that can change form. By just looking at the origin of the word, it is clear any car that can convert from being an enclosed, covered car to a open air car would qualify.
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Indeed, thats always been the way I have seen it.
 
Azuremen
Rev, you do realize when you quoted dictionary.com, that those aren't all criteria, but different definitions. Thus if any of them apply (not all of them) the definition holds.

Everything Famine has stated has supported his argument. You have been selectively quoting yourself, sources, him, and everyone else in some absurd attempt to say they are wrong.

On the convertible aspect, just look at the word - convert. Which is to simply have something that can change form. By just looking at the origin of the word, it is clear any car that can convert from being an enclosed, covered car to a open air car would qualify.

And if you want to go by popular opinion, you are the only person at this point that claims that a roadster is not a convertible.

It seems now you are trying to back pedal on a mistake to make yourself look better, but in actuality you are simply making your position look even less credible.
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Be sure to note that not all roadsters are convertibles though. Some never have roofs.
 
Well, why not this train of thought?

In many of the reviews I've read/watched, the verdict on the DBS is that it's really just a really nice, slightly faster DB9 with a hokey electronic key, but not quite worth the extra money. However...what if it had been offered as a Volante, and only a Volante, to begin with?
 
Famine
Interesting. I determined the "away" part to literally mean out of sight - whereas the MX-5's folds down and rests behind the driver (albeit in a recess, unlike the Mini and Beetle cabriolets - which are cabriolet convertibles). Though you can, of course, fit a tonneau over it to place it out of sight (but it takes forever).
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Whoa, thats like saying Ananas Pineapple. Who the hell invented that terminology?
 
No, it's like saying "Bartlett Pears". Bartletts are all pears, but not all pears are Bartletts.

Read some of the last 40 posts.
 
Or like "Super Moderator." All Super's are moderators, but not all moderators are super!

I kid, I kid. :p
 
No, you're quite right. Supermoderators are all moderators, but not all moderators are supermoderators.

Convertible = Car which converts between enclosed and exposed
Cabriolet = Style of convertible with a folding roof which is retained on the body
 
Actually that was supposed to be like an insult, as in not all moderators are great (super), which is why I added on the kidding part. ;)

Anywho...
 
Famine
Convertible = Car which converts between enclosed and exposed
Cabriolet = Style of convertible with a folding roof which is retained on the body
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No, thats not it. You missed my point. I made no comment that it was incorrect in English. It is just stupid.

Where I come from, a Cabriolet (or Kabriolet) and a Convertible are the same thing. Likewise, in French, it is the same as well. Cabriolet is the more common term, while Convertible is the less common american term. Probably in some other countries as well.

Likewise, every notable European country calls a certain delicious fruit an Ananas, while only the English have some up with their own term, the pineapple. Its not an apple and has nothing to do with a Pine either.
 
SagarisGTB
No, thats not it. You missed my point. I made no comment that it was incorrect in English. It is just stupid.

Where I come from, a Cabriolet (or Kabriolet) and a Convertible are the same thing. Likewise, in French, it is the same as well. Cabriolet is the more common term, while Convertible is the less common american term. Probably in some other countries as well.

Likewise, every notable European country calls a certain delicious fruit an Ananas, while only the English have some up with their own term, the pineapple. Its not an apple and has nothing to do with a Pine either.
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That's smashing, but much of the last 40 posts have covered the point - and disagreement with it - that a convertible is any car where the roof comes away (on purpose) and there are specific subsets thereof. A cabriolet is a convertible, but a convertible needn't be a cabriolet - to use them interchangeably isn't correct.

This has been very comprehensively covered now, with someone who actually works in the car manufacture industry posting information which agrees with the above. I don't think we need to recover it - especially as it's just an aside meant to distract from the original point.


Ironically, the very specific definition of cabriolet originates from a French word for a certain type of horse-drawn carriage - one, where the roof can fold down from above the occupants' heads to rest on the frame behind them.
 
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Reventón;3322369
All I read is you once again trying to wiggle yourself into an area where you believe you are right.
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That's pretty delicious irony right there, considering you stance on the convertible topic.

If that is all you read then I guess you don't read your own posts. Without making this too personal I would kindly suggest you take a good read through your posts in this thread and consider exactly you come across. Obnoxious would be a polite way to put it. If I am honest the complete dissection of quotes down to single sentences blurres the context of the quote and generally causes discussions of this nature to go in circles you certainly aren't the only offender here but you are one of the worst.

This silly argument isn't really going anywhere. I think Famines disagreement with one of your quote is perfectly legitimate. I don't think your stubborn arguing has really made much of an effort to address his main point, rather than to pick holes in other irrelevant points.

I don't intend to offend you, I felt the need to chip in now as this isn't going anywhere useful and its mainly down to you I am afraid.
 
SagarisGTB
Likewise, every notable European country calls a certain delicious fruit an Ananas, while only the English have some up with their own term, the pineapple. Its not an apple and has nothing to do with a Pine either.
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I refer you to the Etymology of the Pineapple: Wiki. "In the scientific binomial Ananas comosus, ananas, the original name of the fruit, comes from the Tupi (Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) word for pine nanas". Well done, you've just been pwned by a fruit ;)

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Back rather more on topic, I agree with a selection of people here that there's nothing wrong with a track-focused open car. I rather like the idea even. More capable than a regular version of the car should you wish to take it on a track day, and has that bigger aura of being an "event" to drive (courtesy of a rawer feel, more noise etc), and yet when you take it on the road, they get even more looks than the coupe versions (if that's your thing) and you can always drop the roof and listen to a glorious sound through a long tunnel.

And lets face it, companies like Aston Martin and Ferrari know better than to release a car with a wobbly chassis to the world, so even if it isn't quite as stiff as a coupe, I very much doubt that 95% of people will notice.
 
Okay moving along... the car itself... Randy digs... If I had the money that DBS Volante would be my mid spring to late fall/very early winter toy with a GTR as the Winter Toy. I know I'm nuts... :lol: Randy
 

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