Thoughts on this incident

[Spurgy 777]

It's not a divebomb if the person ahead is judged to have made a mistake and is well off the racing line at a lower speed. IMO that's the case here based on how quickly second and third close in on first. Based on that I can't agree on the premise of your question.

I wouldn't say he really made a mistake, he was on the correct line unlike the cars behind. His main mistake, at least on entry as he should of got on the power earlier too, is that he didn't trail brake, ideally you don't want to brake sharply like he did because you scrub off your speed a little early and maybe slightly too much. Here are some images below showing how wide you should run on the correct racing line, granted it's different cars but should essentially be the same.

And here's an image of how late into the kerb your apex point should be.

As you can see it's a very wide entry and late apex with the aim of setting up the exit, yes you can hold a tight line on the inside as the OP did and get alongside just before the apex, but don't expect to carry anywhere near as much speed on exit. You also shouldn't expect the lead driver to know you're coming either because they can't see you even with mirrors. That's the whole reason you shouldn't really go alongside after the turn in point and you have to be extremely careful if you do because the only thing that a driver can use to look behind them, mirrors, are pointing the wrong direction, usually at some lovely grass or a wall.

Another point is that even if P1 did see you coming (assuming he was in chase cam which I'm fairly certain he was) you shouldn't expect him to redirect so late into such a fast corner. Changing line half way through a high speed corner usually requires quite a sharp swerve out of the corner and significantly less speed, this corner is a bit more forgiving thanks to the massive width of the track so it probably wouldn't have been as difficult. More importantly though is the time he would have had to react, from the first time OP comes into P1s chase cam view to the point of contact there is 0.6 seconds. Which gives P1 0.6 seconds to, see the OP, turn the wheel and for the car to actually respond, and although it should be possible you are cutting it very close.

 

[gknap]

P1 was on the correct line for what? A time trial?
I would argue that P1 was on the wrong line given the situation.
By all means, he is free to choose what ever line he wishes.
But leaving the door open like that is "an invite", but his follow through doesn't reflect that.

 

[Spurgy 777]

P1 was on the correct line for what? A time trial?
I would argue that P1 was on the wrong line given the situation.
By all means, he is free to choose what ever line he wishes.
But leaving the door open like that is "an invite", but his follow through doesn't reflect that.

The door is always “open” until you reach the apex, doesn’t give you the right to just stick your car up the inside meters before the apex giving the driver in front half a second to swerve out of the way. Especially when you’ve taken a line that gets you to the apex quicker but gives no consideration for exiting the corner.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I'm totally on with @Spurgy 777 there, P1 is on the racing line, P2 is not as he enters way too soon and wouldn't have been able to accelerate out of the corner without understeering and needing to lift again to avoid hitting the wall. Plus P2 comes from very far, that's the very definition of divebomb here, P1 can't see him coming since the move begins when he already turned in. I mean, if he'd been closer in the first place, the move would have been fair, albeit probably still unsuccessful since he goes for the apex way too early (I can't count the number of people I overtook on the outside or by crossing lines at exit in this corner already).

I can see how P1's behavior could have been surprising though, he definitely applied too much brakes while P2 had a good braking, but the hit was avoidable imo.

 

[baldgye]

I think that the penalty system is at fault if either of you got penalties.


The chap in P1 didn't do anything wrong, I agree with @Spurgy 777 assessment. However the actual contact was minimal and the OP (ignoring the penalty) came off worse.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm totally on with @Spurgy 777 there, P1 is on the racing line, P2 is not as he enters way too soon and wouldn't have been able to accelerate out of the corner without understeering and needing to lift again to avoid hitting the wall. Plus P2 comes from very far, that's the very definition of divebomb here, P1 can't see him coming since the move begins when he already turned in. I mean, if he'd been closer in the first place, the move would have been fair, albeit probably still unsuccessful since he goes for the apex way too early (I can't count the number of people I overtook on the outside or by crossing lines at exit in this corner already).

I can see how P1's behavior could have been surprising though, he definitely applied too much brakes while P2 had a good braking, but the hit was avoidable imo.

Again though, you only have a right to the racing line and the apex if you are at racing speed. If you make an error like you suggest, in braking too early, you open up the door to being attacked depending on how much speed you accidentally scrub off and that's what happened. The right to the racing line and apex isn't absolute, it'd dependent upon maintaining a good pace and not making a significant error.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Yeah, I do agree this could have been handled fairly without any timed penalty being issued.

@Johnnypenso It's not a major error, it is just not optimal, while the other guy's braking was more optimal. Most people I know brake like P1 everytime here.

 

[fastone371]

P2 doesn't cause the collision, P1 does.
P2 does a aggressive attacking move, yes.
But he never, not once, start to push outwards. Thus leaving space for P1, on the outside.
Therefore It's a clean move, and the contact is on P1, not P2.

I saw that differently. Depending on which view you use in the replay P2 does in fact start to push up high right before contact. I would lay blame 50/50 or maybe 60/40 with P1 carrying a bigger load of blame for trying to get back down to apex mid corner. P1 definitely makes a poor move attacking apex after blowing the corner. To play devils advocate, why try to win on the very first corner of the very first lap??? That is not a move I going to attempt if Im P2, there are 16 more laps, someone will make a mistake that I would hopefully benefit from. That layout is pretty good for setting up passes if you are trying to pass someone equally matched in speed by seeing if your a little faster at 1 part or altering your apex to gain momentum on a straight etc... But thats just me, I prefer passing by braking early and exiting faster, it seems like trying to pass by out braking the other car almost always results in contact and a penalty for at least 1 of the 2.

 

[baldgye]

Again though, you only have a right to the racing line and the apex if you are at racing speed. If you make an error like you suggest, in braking too early, you open up the door to being attacked depending on how much speed you accidentally scrub off and that's what happened. The right to the racing line and apex isn't absolute, it'd dependent upon maintaining a good pace and not making a significant error.

This is very true and important. But in this case, the move for the lead was never really on and the best case was maybe (assuming the guy in front saw him) it'd compromise his exit, but then the OP's exit would be compromised even more...

...I think this is a perfect example of a racing incident and I feel like a penalty for either driver is grossly unfair.

 

[Pedinhuh]

Tough call...Seems like both are at fault here, P2 barged in the corner hoping for the best, P1 blew his racing and closed the door.

I say 1 second penalty for P2, P1 gets 2 seconds penalty.

 

[gknap]

I saw that differently. Depending on which view you use in the replay P2 does in fact start to push up high right before contact. I would lay blame 50/50 or maybe 60/40 with P1 carrying a bigger load of blame for trying to get back down to apex mid corner. P1 definitely makes a poor move attacking apex after blowing the corner. To play devils advocate, why try to win on the very first corner of the very first lap??? That is not a move I going to attempt if Im P2, there are 16 more laps, someone will make a mistake that I would hopefully benefit from. That layout is pretty good for setting up passes if you are trying to pass someone equally matched in speed by seeing if your a little faster at 1 part or altering your apex to gain momentum on a straight etc... But thats just me, I prefer passing by braking early and exiting faster, it seems like trying to pass by out braking the other car almost always results in contact and a penalty for at least 1 of the 2.

As I've stated before, P2 makes a aggressive move challenging the P1 position like that.
However he does it cleanly by not going outwards and giving room for P1.
I cant see that P2 starts to push outwards at any point before contact.
So I'm still thinking the contact is on P1.

If it were me in P1 I would choose a more defensive line defending my position and denying a move like that.
If it were me in P2 i would as you do as you say. Wait for a mistake over the course of a pretty long race.

But really what I think is if this is the worst situations They get into... Be grateful
This is nitpicking and peanuts

The door is always “open” until you reach the apex, doesn’t give you the right to just stick your car up the inside meters before the apex giving the driver in front half a second to swerve out of the way. Especially when you’ve taken a line that gets you to the apex quicker but gives no consideration for exiting the corner.

So if P1 chose a more defensive line the door would be open? I certainly don't think so.
He doesn't have to defend his position, that's his choice. But he should drive accordingly, which he doesn't.
And if that was me, I would not be very surprised that someone tried to make a move.
Its probably not a bad line if you're going for a fast laptime, but it is bad racing given the actual situation.
And swerve out of the way? why? P1 changes his line/angle for the apex not once, not twice but three times after his turn-in.
If he'd not done the last direction change it would not have been an issue at all.

You're talking about P2 exiting the corner alongside (or overlapping) P1, if P1 hadn't made the contact and stayed on his line?
That's just pure speculation and pointless to discuss. Because it never happened.
I'm not going to defend some "what if" situation.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Well, if you ought to take a defensive line with cars that far behind you, then everyone should spend the whole race sticking to the inside line. Obviously you didn't raced that track enough yet.

 

[gknap]

Well, if you ought to take a defensive line with cars that far behind you, then everyone should spend the whole race sticking to the inside line. Obviously you didn't raced that track enough yet.

Obviously they weren't that far behind, hence the insident. And don't make assumptions on how much I've raced, and don't start projecting worst case scenarios on me. I never said that everyone should stick to the inside line for the entirety of the race.
I've spent thousands of hours in racing games and I've seen many, many situations like this one and been in the center of it as well. On both sides.
I know that the fastest line is the one where you make use of the whole track. But the fastest line isn't always the best line when in a race, obviously. Sometimes you have to defend your position and sometimes you want to challenge a position. We all know this. And if you don't, you obviously haven't raced enough.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Yes they were "that" far, otherwise he would have overtook without being hit with that speed difference And I'm not making assumptions on how much you've raced, just on the experience you have on that particular track. I raced it quite a bit already alongside regular EU and US top10 scorers, and also slower drivers. You just can't expect to have a clean overtake here from this far, especially with this line, unless the car in front has his right blinker on.

I've spent countless hours on racing games as well, and a few trackdays as well, I've even been in a friend's GT-R while he hit a Peugeot 206 on the side because he tried to take the inside line while the 206 already began to turn in. It's not the 206 guy who got a warning, and my friend didn't even thought of complaining to anyone. Now try to find any real life motorsport overtake that looks like this and ended well. Spoiler : you won't.

 

[Robben]

There is no argument in this case... P1 was far enough ahead, was on the racing line and couldn't see P2 dive for the inside from deep (where he wouldn't have made the exit anyway). A case could be made if the two were neck and neck on the straight, and each chose a different path.

IMO, of course

 

[JulesDennis]

When contact is made we must ask : was it avoidable or not?
If the anwer is the first then :
a .Driver A is to blame or
b Driver B is to blame.
There are no "if" or "I would do this or that",only what happend,why and who takes the blame (in case of avoidable contact).

Take your pick guys.

 

[gknap]

Yes they were "that" far, otherwise he would have overtook without being hit with that speed difference And I'm not making assumptions on how much you've raced, just on the experience you have on that particular track. I raced it quite a bit already alongside regular EU and US top10 scorers, and also slower drivers. You just can't expect to have a clean overtake here from this far, especially with this line, unless the car in front has his right blinker on.

I've spent countless hours on racing games as well, and a few trackdays as well, I've even been in a friend's GT-R while he hit a Peugeot 206 on the side because he tried to take the inside line while the 206 already began to turn in. It's not the 206 guy who got a warning, and my friend didn't even thought of complaining to anyone. Now try to find any real life motorsport overtake that looks like this and ended well. Spoiler : you won't.

I get what you are saying, I really do. I just don't agreed with your conclusion.
Sometimes I will "steal" the apex like that to force (without contact)the driver ahead of me to take a different line without overtaking at that exact corner. That's how I do it some times anyway, disrupting the ahead drivers racing lines and eventually making the pass.
In this particular situation if I were P2 I would have to maintain that tight line even on exit. And be careful not to go wide on P1. Or else it would be a bad move. But again, that never happened. Because P1 had no idea what was going on around him (that's on him) or he turned in on P2 deliberately (and that is also on him, if its the case).
The way I see it, its an issue of who's trying to occupy a space already taken regardless of what corner, track or cars.
That's the way I see it anyway, and I really don't feel the need to justify my opinion more than I already have or provide evidence beyond what is given in the OP.

 

[rsergio007]

P1 is ahead, the corner is his. P2 can't stick the car into the inside of the corner. That's a bad move, unfortunately most people in online racing seem to find it ok. It's not. Considering the car ahead will take the corner normally as outside-apex-outside, why would P2 come from a backward position into the apex? What was P2's expectation? That P1 would just open his trajectory for P2? Makes no sense. Overtaking is NOT shoving the car into the inside of a corner and expect for the best. Is about being patient, planning a good move, pressure the opponent, wait for a mistake.

 

[Robben]

P1 is ahead, the corner is his. P2 can't stick the car into the inside of the corner. That's a bad move, unfortunately most people in online racing seem to find it ok. It's not. Considering the car ahead will take the corner normally as outside-apex-outside, why would P2 come from a backward position into the apex? What was P2's expectation? That P1 would just open his trajectory for P2? Makes no sense. Overtaking is NOT shoving the car into the inside of a corner and expect for the best. Is about being patient, planning a good move, pressure the opponent, wait for a mistake.

Exactly...

and as for some others above saying diving for the inside is ok and that P1 should have taken action to avoid an accident?

 

[JulesDennis]

P1 is ahead, the corner is his. P2 can't stick the car into the inside of the corner. That's a bad move, unfortunately most people in online racing seem to find it ok. It's not. Considering the car ahead will take the corner normally as outside-apex-outside, why would P2 come from a backward position into the apex? What was P2's expectation? That P1 would just open his trajectory for P2? Makes no sense. Overtaking is NOT shoving the car into the inside of a corner and expect for the best. Is about being patient, planning a good move, pressure the opponent, wait for a mistake.

Funny you say that because P1 did make a mistake and he actually did slow down -more that he should- and left the door open for P2.

Exactly...

and as for some others above saying diving for the inside is ok and that P1 should have taken action to avoid an accident?

Yes,diving is ok if it is done in a clean manner.If not then every passing move using the "inside" line is not legit (ir or sim racing).
"Diving for the inside" is a common move in every race in real life btw.

 

[gknap]

Exactly...

and as for some others above saying diving for the inside is ok and that P1 should have taken action to avoid an accident?

Yes, taken action as in being aware of the situation and not turning in on P2 and trying to occupy a space already taken by P2.
P1 failed on both accounts.

 

[philipPF]

I still don't get it, but I'm far from being an expert, I'm quite newbie in simracing / racing world

What I don't understand here is that everyone seems to consider that the ONLY proper way to overtake is by having a better corner exit speed. But as far as I know, there's a lot of cases in racing where someone pass on the inside by coming faster, even if the exit is slower (sometimes blocking the car which has been overtaken)

Let's remind that the context is the first corner on the first lap, how can you be sure that the inside line will be empty if you take such a wide "time trial" line ? At least look at radar / mirrors. IMO, P2 move is OK as he doesn't search for any contact and is not going loose in the corner. If P1 line allows him to exit faster than P2, why close the door that much ? staying 2 meters further on the right is enough to leave some room for P2 (who would brake later and exiting slower) without compromising much P1 speed, no ?

(Sorry for my english)

 

[JulesDennis]

I still don't get it, but I'm far from being an expert, I'm quite newbie in simracing / racing world

What I don't understand here is that everyone seems to consider that the ONLY proper way to overtake is by having a better corner exit speed. But as far as I know, there's a lot of cases in racing where someone pass on the inside by coming faster, even if the exit is slower (sometimes blocking the car which has been overtaken)

Let's remind that the context is the first corner on the first lap, how can you be sure that the inside line will be empty if you take such a wide "time trial" line ? At least look at radar / mirrors. IMO, P2 move is OK as he doesn't search for any contact and is not going loose in the corner. If P1 line allows him to exit faster than P2, why close the door that much ? staying 2 meters further on the right is enough to leave some room for P2 (who would brake later and exiting slower) without compromising much P1 speed, no ?

(Sorry for my english)

You may call yourself a "newbie" but you "get it"

 

[Spurgy 777]

So if P1 chose a more defensive line the door would be open? I certainly don't think so.

I put open in quotation marks for a reason, your definition of an "open" door seems to be any gap between your car and the inside of the corner and therefore the door is always open by your definition until you reach the apex.

That however is not the correct meaning of leaving the door open. It's meant to apply before the turn in point, not after, if you're not alongside before the turn in point the it's a divebomb and the door hasn't been left open for you.

He doesn't have to defend his position, that's his choice. But he should drive accordingly, which he doesn't.
And if that was me, I would not be very surprised that someone tried to make a move.

There's only two reasons to expect someone on the inside of when you go into it 3 car lengths ahead, either you're a bad driver and are massively slower than everyone else or the guys behind are bad drivers and you're expecting them to go for a completely unthinking dive with the soul purpose of getting a nose alongside meters before the apex.

Its probably not a bad line if you're going for a fast laptime, but it is bad racing given the actual situation.

One of the pictures I showed you was in a race, and I took that line every lap unless someone was alongside before the corner. Worked perfectly fine for all but one lap where someone tried exactly what was tried in the OPs video with the same result. They tried to stick their nose on the inside before the apex and I was given a fraction of a second to react by the time they came into view, which wasn't possible.

And swerve out of the way? why? P1 changes his line/angle for the apex not once, not twice but three times after his turn-in.
If he'd not done the last direction change it would not have been an issue at all.

I think you're getting a bit creative with your counting. He turns in one after coming off the banking, then straightens up slightly as P2 comes into view but then turns in again just before the contact (to minimise it). The last change of direction was going done when it seemed contact couldn't have been avoided, could it have been if he kept turning the wheel right? Maybe, but considering he had half a second to judge it we can't exactly blame him for not figuring out if it was or not in that time.

You're talking about P2 exiting the corner alongside (or overlapping) P1, if P1 hadn't made the contact and stayed on his line?
That's just pure speculation and pointless to discuss. Because it never happened.
I'm not going to defend some "what if" situation.

I'm saying that you should think about where you stick your car. Don't just stuff it down the inside on entry with no thought of what's going to happen on exit. Overtakes should always be planned and thought out and you should position your car with intention and in a way that you know will help you overtake.

I still don't get it, but I'm far from being an expert, I'm quite newbie in simracing / racing world

What I don't understand here is that everyone seems to consider that the ONLY proper way to overtake is by having a better corner exit speed. But as far as I know, there's a lot of cases in racing where someone pass on the inside by coming faster, even if the exit is slower (sometimes blocking the car which has been overtaken)

We're saying you shouldn't overtake unless you're alongside before the turn in point or if you do go for an overtake after the turn in point you have to be very careful about it, not steam in and give the other driver half a second to see you and adjust his line.

Let's remind that the context is the first corner on the first lap, how can you be sure that the inside line will be empty if you take such a wide "time trial" line ? At least look at radar / mirrors. IMO, P2 move is OK as he doesn't search for any contact and is not going loose in the corner. If P1 line allows him to exit faster than P2, why close the door that much ? 2 meters on the right is enough to leave some room for P2 (who would brake later and exiting slower) without compromising much P1 speed, no ?

(Sorry for my english)

P1 would have gone into that corner seeing he was 3 car lengths ahead which should be more than enough to take the corner without having to worry about someone on the inside so there is no reason to leave any room. P2 only just got his nose alongside before the gap closed completely and that was through braking later and taking a much tighter line, or in other words a bad and half hearted attempt at an overtake without much thought going into it.

 

[Sean Renon]

P1 would have gone into that corner seeing he was 3 car lengths ahead which should be more than enough to take the corner without having to worry about someone on the inside so there is no reason to leave any room. P2 only just got his nose alongside before the gap closed completely and that was through braking later and taking a much tighter line, or in other words a bad and half hearted attempt at an overtake without much thought going into it.

I was not even attempting an overtake FYI, just taking a more defensive line.
Also, if we use your image as a reference for where the apex is, P1 is off the "racing line", he takes a normal outside to inside line, realizes he's slowed down too much, and tries to cut to the curb for an inside line.
The point of contact is just before the curbing even starts, a typical "racing" line clips the curbing much deeper into the corner as you yourself have pointed out.

Remember that I also have 2 drivers going side by side behind me, and I'm taking an inside line to defend my position, I don't exactly brake late - I don't fly into the corner out of control and I position myself off of the driving line so I can learn how P1 drives, how am I supposed to know he's going to cut down on me well before the apex.

I'm not saying I'm blameless here, but you're very quick to say I've given him 0 time to react, yet how am I supposed to anticipate him cutting down at 0:30

 

[cleanLX]

Everyone keeps missing the part where P1 locks the front brakes, and skids in a straight line out towards the yellow paint.
That is not a racing line of any strategy.
P1 did not leave the door open, he opened the door all by himself.
By locking up and skidding straight, P1 misses his turn in point... in essence, that allows P2 to turn in before P1 does... It is now up to P1 to get back onto the racing line in a safe manner... but...
P1 decides to turn down, and take an early apex (even those he's set himself up for nothing other than a run out on the outside, maybe, a very late apex if no other car is there), so in diving down to an early apex he has initiated a dangerous "block".

 

[Spurgy 777]

I was not even attempting an overtake FYI, just taking a more defensive line.

My mistake then, although you not attempting to overtake does explain why it wasn't a very thoughtful overtake.

Also, if we use your image as a reference for where the apex is, P1 is off the "racing line", he takes a normal outside to inside line, realizes he's slowed down too much, and tries to cut to the curb for an inside line.
The point of contact is just before the curbing even starts, a typical "racing" line clips the curbing much deeper into the corner as you yourself have pointed out.

Don't be deceived by the late apex, the gap to the inside gets quite small well before it, here's how close I am before the kerb.

And just before the point of contact I am in exactly the same place on track as he is (see the 3 tyre marks just to the right of the car, the front right of both of our cars are inline with the furthest left mark). I lined up the point of the corner with the umbrellas and white bit of barrier in the far right of shot.

Remember that I also have 2 drivers going side by side behind me, and I'm taking an inside line to defend my position, I don't exactly brake late - I don't fly into the corner out of control and I position myself off of the driving line so I can learn how P1 drives,

Bare in mind that I was under the impression it was an attempted overtake, I don't think you broke too late or that you were out of control, just that you shouldn't have put your car there, and as it was unintentional it's a pretty minor mistake, had you been slightly slower or even him slightly faster there would have been no issue.

how am I supposed to know he's going to cut down on me well before the apex.

See above, the gap closes a lot earlier than you would expect it to.

I'm not saying I'm blameless here, but you're very quick to say I've given him 0 time to react, yet how am I supposed to anticipate him cutting down at 0:30

The problem is the banking, it unsettles the car and makes the turn in a bit unpredictable and not very smooth even with smooth inputs. It's just something you have to learn to take into account when on the inside of that corner, just give yourself an extra margin for wiggle room and be a bit cautious.

Also again, don't take what I've said too harshly as I was under the impression it was an intentional attempt at an overtake, as it wasn't it's a simple case of being a little bit more cautious.

 

[cleanLX]

And just before the point of contact I am in exactly the same place on track as he is (see the 3 tyre marks just to the right of the car, the front right of both of our cars are inline with the furthest left mark). I lined up the point of the corner with the umbrellas and white bit of barrier in the far right of shot.
View attachment 723648 View attachment 723649

that's all well and fine had he taken a natural/predictable "line" to that point rather than a diving in after having been offline and off pace.
.

 

[Spurgy 777]

that's all well and fine had he taken a natural/predictable "line" to that point rather than a diving in after having been offline and off pace.
.

Where exactly does he go off line? He's in exactly the same place to me just before contact and he's in the same place as me as he hits the end of the banking although I'm angled better (First 2 pictures). The widest he gets compared to me is as we both get in line with the yellow where the front right of his car is half way between the 2nd and 3rd tyre mark and my front right is a little left of the 2nd mark so at most he's half a cars width wider (3rd and 4th picture). Yes I know we're not exactly in the same car but my line doesn't really change much from car to car for this corner.

 

[gknap]

I put open in quotation marks for a reason, your definition of an "open" door seems to be any gap between your car and the inside of the corner and therefore the door is always open by your definition until you reach the apex.

The door seems to always be open by my definition... Why then, do I say the door would be closed if he'd taken a more defensive line?

That however is not the correct meaning of leaving the door open. It's meant to apply before the turn in point, not after, if you're not alongside before the turn in point the it's a divebomb and the door hasn't been left open for you.

P1 takes a non defensive line, breaks a bit early, therefore leaving the door open imo.

There's only two reasons to expect someone on the inside of when you go into it 3 car lengths ahead, either you're a bad driver and are massively slower than everyone else or the guys behind are bad drivers and you're expecting them to go for a completely unthinking dive with the soul purpose of getting a nose alongside meters before the apex.

So you have never experienced the latter? Long straight, first corner... no?
Again, I would have taken a more defensive line, given the actual situation.
But really that is irrelevant, because it didn't happen...

One of the pictures I showed you was in a race, and I took that line every lap unless someone was alongside before the corner. Worked perfectly fine for all but one lap where someone tried exactly what was tried in the OPs video with the same result. They tried to stick their nose on the inside before the apex and I was given a fraction of a second to react by the time they came into view, which wasn't possible.

I'm discussing the incident in the OP, not every other example thrown at me.

I think you're getting a bit creative with your counting. He turns in one after coming off the banking, then straightens up slightly as P2 comes into view but then turns in again just before the contact (to minimise it). The last change of direction was going done when it seemed contact couldn't have been avoided, could it have been if he kept turning the wheel right? Maybe, but considering he had half a second to judge it we can't exactly blame him for not figuring out if it was or not in that time.

No I can count (1-2-10 ), and he changes his angle/line/trajectory significantly 3 times after the turn in.
There was no need for him to turn right, only thing needed was to not going for the apex (the last direction change) and leave space for the car on the inside. Taking a slightly wider line.

I'm saying that you should think about where you stick your car. Don't just stuff it down the inside on entry with no thought of what's going to happen on exit. Overtakes should always be planned and thought out and you should position your car with intention and in a way that you know will help you overtake.

Agreed, but I don't think P2 mindlessly dove on the inside in this case. He seemed to have perfect control of his car, he was not washing wide and his speed didn't seem to me to be too high to not maintaining a tight line on exit as well. But that's my opinion.