Time Trial/Qualy Timing Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter Alan_G
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Bugman_27
Hello.

I recently came across, what I would consider, a very serious flaw with SCC. On the opening lap of time trials/qualifying, the timing begins a few metres beyond the start line, yet the same lap time finishes AT the real start/finish line. This effectively means that up to around 0.6 seconds is lost on subsequent laps of the session. To achieve the best time, one must quit the session, re-enter, and even then just get a single shot at it.

I raised this on the Eutechnyx forum. The admin said that they were aware of it, but don't want to do a fix because they don't want to wipe the lap times database (as it would contain lap times which may be impossible to beat).

THIS IS A HUGE MISTAKE. Part of the whole point of the game is lap times, fastest laps, competing against thousands around the world for fastest laps in X cars multiplied by Y circuits. It's a huge part of the gameplay. If it's left as is, then the whole fastest laps thing is just pointless. Having to quit/re-enter Time Trials is just totally impractical. GT5 Prologue have wiped their lap times on multiple occasions, and furthermore the release of SCC is just in it's infancy - lap times will quickly fill up again. And furthermore again, many of the tables don't even have a single time set yet.

Can everyone please have a look out for what i'm talking about. Then if you see how serious it is, please go here - http://forums.eutechnyx.com/index.php/topic,1246.0.html - and help me to kick up an enormous fuss. If nobody complains about this, no fix will be put through for it, in which case the game has shot itself through the foot, for good.
 
You know what really sucks on this game?

You are faster with all driving aids on then all off!?

I tried a time trial on the Canada F1 track with the F40 with all driving aids off and my best time was 1:43:xxx (after 2-3 laps) and the number 1 placed got an 1:38:xxx with ALL aids on even auto braking...

So I tried that too with all driving aids on,even auto brake was on just like that guy on place one in the time trials... so I got to give only full throttle and I was faster than my lap with all aids off...

That pissed me off if thats really so!? or can somebody say I´m wrong?

If that is so,thats the biggest reason for me to kick that game in the trash and give system3 no more chance...

WTF? why should I drive a racing sim when i´m faster with driving aids on?
 
Well, thanks for putting that post in my completely unrelated topic.

As a response to your point anyway: What is it like in real life? Are real racing cars slower with ABS/TC etc? No, of course they are faster. In saying that, I'm not faster with driving aids, and most of the best drivers in simulators, in my experience, don't use them.

Online play is arguably the most important part of racing games these days, and hosts have the option to limit driving assists. So if you want to race with people with no driving aids, you can easily do this.
 
You know what really sucks on this game?

You are faster with all driving aids on then all off!?

I tried a time trial on the Canada F1 track with the F40 with all driving aids off and my best time was 1:43:xxx (after 2-3 laps) and the number 1 placed got an 1:38:xxx with ALL aids on even auto braking...

So I tried that too with all driving aids on,even auto brake was on just like that guy on place one in the time trials... so I got to give only full throttle and I was faster than my lap with all aids off...

That pissed me off if thats really so!? or can somebody say I´m wrong?

If that is so,thats the biggest reason for me to kick that game in the trash and give system3 no more chance...

WTF? why should I drive a racing sim when i´m faster with driving aids on?

That is pretty ridiculous.
 
You know what really sucks on this game?

You are faster with all driving aids on then all off!?

I tried a time trial on the Canada F1 track with the F40 with all driving aids off and my best time was 1:43:xxx (after 2-3 laps) and the number 1 placed got an 1:38:xxx with ALL aids on even auto braking...

So I tried that too with all driving aids on,even auto brake was on just like that guy on place one in the time trials... so I got to give only full throttle and I was faster than my lap with all aids off...

That pissed me off if thats really so!? or can somebody say I´m wrong?

If that is so,thats the biggest reason for me to kick that game in the trash and give system3 no more chance...

WTF? why should I drive a racing sim when i´m faster with driving aids on?

With virtually all of the lap records I've noticed they've been set with no driver aids. I haven't come accross that before.
 
Well, I don't want to drag this thread further off topic, but I am interested in the discussion about driver aids, so I've place my reply here in this thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120030

For the record Alan_G, I didn't make a post about this on the Eutechnyx boards but I did send my encouragement to fix the problem to them via PM. I did not get a response but I think (and this is just my personal opinion) that Eutechnyx, at this point, hasn't solved this problem and it's already too late to include it in patch 1.1. We know from experience with FC that there is a rather long, complex process that developers have to go through with Sony Q&A before any patch is posted for download and it can take many weeks, if not longer from when they submit it to Sony until when it's available for download. And I think they're kind of worried about resetting the leaderboards, not today, but 2-3 months(?) down the road when patch 1.2 is released.
 
Yes, absolutely. As I know myself, it can be a long process to get certain development issues sorted out. In this case, the fix is the easy part.

Why do they have to reset the leaderboards? Why not just release the fix, and leave the leaderboards? The reason is that some unbeatable laptimes may have been set in the opening lap of timetrail/qualy. So by refusing to fix this for that reason, it is an admission that they feel it's acceptable for players to have to go to the trouble of trying to set fast laps only on the opening lap of the session.

Someone sent me a PSN message saying "You can do the timetrial in an online lobby privately with no timing problem". Yes of course. But the point is there will always be a percentage of people who will go to the trouble of repeatedly quitting/re-entering timetrials to set laptimes, or set world records. As time goes on this is just going to distort and ruin the leaderboards. And it will reach a point where many people are focusing trying to beat other people's laptimes and suspecting that particular laptimes were done in that opening lap of timetrial - that feeling of "There's no way he/she did that time in a normal timed lap!".
 
You are absolutely right, Alan_G. 👍

for me it makes not a lot of difference as I`m currently working on getting within five or more seconds of the fastest time on some tracks :dunce: but if the difference in the end for the fastest drivers is made by using lap 1 times only then it would be a kind of glitching, imo. It would be a real shame if a game with such a class driving model came down to that, and you can guarantee that it will if nothing is done. When everything gets pushed to the absolute limit of what`s possible someone will do lap 1 runs only, and then everyone will have to. And there will always be the doubt which you point to.

Even for "improving" drivers it will matter eventually if the only way they beat their own PB or break into the top 100 times with a car is by restarting continually after the first lap. That`s not really the idea of a TT session and a first lap only TT mode would be stupid, but that would be effectively what you were left with.
 
Thanks Superfuzz. So if you agree, perhaps you could go here: http://forums.eutechnyx.com/index.php/topic,1246.0.html and post your disdain at this problem not being fixed!

The fix is the easy part. This all comes down to the leaderboards. GT5P has wiped its leaderboards several times. This is one wipe, for a very good reason.

Most people struggle to even find a store selling a copy. So I really can't understand this.
 
Have to agree. If there are obvious reasons to doubt leaderboard times they should all be reset.

One difficulty, however, is that not all times were necessarily set during time trials and quite a few were set in the middle of races. I was in the race when Firedshot beat the lap record in Redwoood Park and I could tell by his reaction that he was quite happy about it!
 
That's another problem, and it's a new one from FC.

In Ferrari Challenge we had "Time Trial" leaderboards and "Fastest Lap" leaderboards. These were made in race mode.

Now everythingis mixed up, but THAT I don't think can be solved.

However, the first lap bug can, I'm sure, be solved. And if it can, it should. And if it IS solved, then the leaderboards must be wiped clean.

All this talk is because FerrariPro wrote that they (eutechnyx or System3, I don't know) don't want to reset the leaderboards.

And I don't see a problem in such a reset.
 
Yeah, it's an obvious one. If Eutechnyx were any bigger of a development company, a decision would have been made to fix this and wipe the leaderboards, because it's clearly the correct decision; it is their lack of resources which is preventing them from making the correct decision.

If anyone feels strongly, like me, feel free to cause a riot on the Eutechnyx forums!! Seriously!
 
To be honest, I suspect it's (slightly) more complicated than that. Eutechnyx is a 'smaller' developer but they have adequate resources. But the money and licenses behind Ferrari Challenge and Supercar Challenge is System 3.

I don't pretend to know the internal agreements behind System 3 & Eutechnyx. But I can well imagine that wiping leaderboards and clearing the bug is something of a grey area between a "bug" and "further development". And there's probably a monetary discussion either happening, or consequently NOT taking place between the two parties as a result.
 
Yeah, it's hard to know what is going on in relation to this problem. I would say, nothing. They have probably discussed this a few weeks ago, and decided, wrongly in my opinion, to do nothing.

In terms of problems between bug/further development - I would say the AI fix in patch 1.1 is completely a further development, and not a bug. Previously, the AI functioned as it was designed to. Cars may have driven off the track, or driven straight into walls, or suddenly braked, but that's just a bad design. They obviously didn't spend the desired time working on it before the patch. But I wouldn't class the AI problems as a bug. I would say the time-trial/qualy problem is 100% a bug, and the necessity to wipe the leaderboards is just a side-effect of fixing this bug.

Either way, my point is that anybody I have been able to inform about this problem completely agrees that it should be fixed, and that they don't mind the leaderboards being wiped. Part of the problem with this bug is that it's not the most obvious of ones; many people havn't noticed it for various reasons. I noticed it quite qickly because one of the first things I did with this game was to try and set a few fast laps in time-trial, and quite easily saw the problem.
 
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