Tips for the beginner

  • Thread starter Lappari990
  • 75 comments
  • 8,430 views
DriftMethod
Obviously you are correct that sim racing doesn't have the dangers of real life. I also agree that watching faster drivers can help, but you will definitely run into diminishing returns. The fastest players are fast because they know how to drive. Yes, they take advantage of the game aspect, but unless they knew why a corner should be taken with a late apex or understand corner prioritization or other real world racing techniques, they would not be able to achieve those lap times.

Suppose PD releases a brand new fictional track. The fast drivers will get up to speed in a handful of laps. How is that possible without having someone to watch and copy? Simple, they can do this because they understand real world racing techniques. They will abuse curbs and exploit track limits to improve, but that is secondary to having the actual racing knowledge.

One of the biggest problems with just watching and copying is that works best for setting a Daily Race qualifying time. It's a big difference with other cars on track, fuel management, tire wear, etc. Understanding the why is much more important than observing the how.
Click to expand...

I cannot agree with this completely. I dont think being fast in GTS will make one fast in a real life race car. The only real sense you are using in a video game is eyesight whereas in a real car you can "feel" what the car is doing not only with your hands but also your butt and your whole body. There are so many things wrong in GTS where drivers would be severely penalized speed wise if they drove a real race car the same way. This is purely a guess on my part but I would guess a lot of GTS's fast players also play other video games which they are also above average at. It is my belief that fast GTS players are great video game players and they understand concepts such as making corners as straight as possible, late braking, trail braking etc. but you just cant feel the "traction circle" while playing a video game, but you can manipulate it with vision and hand eye coordination. Has anybody ever taken someone who never raced before but was great at video games or sim racing and put them in a car? My youngest son was great in karts but that did not cross over to Gran Turismo at the time. Im sure at the time he didnt understand the traction circle or vehicle dynamics but he was able to go to an unfamiliar track and start putting in competitive times relatively quick and he could accurately relay what he felt in the kart so that it could be adjusted for better handling. This was when he was between the ages of 12-15 years old.
 
Whitey093
Click to expand...


I wonder how someone who has never driven a race car and is not a great video game racer does by comparison. They dont talk about how much instruction he went through before they put him in the car so it makes it tough to baseline against someone else. It would have been interesting if they said how fast an experienced racer would have been by comparison and what the average student runs after completing a course. Great video, its gotta really suck not feeling so well inside of a full face helmet, I feel for him.
 
They address that in part 2 i believe. I think he was 2-3 seconds off the normal pace in the mazda. They were definitely impressed. You can tell from the video that the physical sensation of driving the car got to him though. It is a whole new world in a real car. Have a little experience myself including spec Ford's. It's disorientating.
 
fastone371
I cannot agree with this completely. I dont think being fast in GTS will make one fast in a real life race car. The only real sense you are using in a video game is eyesight whereas in a real car you can "feel" what the car is doing not only with your hands but also your butt and your whole body. There are so many things wrong in GTS where drivers would be severely penalized speed wise if they drove a real race car the same way. This is purely a guess on my part but I would guess a lot of GTS's fast players also play other video games which they are also above average at. It is my belief that fast GTS players are great video game players and they understand concepts such as making corners as straight as possible, late braking, trail braking etc. but you just cant feel the "traction circle" while playing a video game, but you can manipulate it with vision and hand eye coordination. Has anybody ever taken someone who never raced before but was great at video games or sim racing and put them in a car? My youngest son was great in karts but that did not cross over to Gran Turismo at the time. Im sure at the time he didnt understand the traction circle or vehicle dynamics but he was able to go to an unfamiliar track and start putting in competitive times relatively quick and he could accurately relay what he felt in the kart so that it could be adjusted for better handling. This was when he was between the ages of 12-15 years old.
Click to expand...
I didn't mention anything about being a fast driver in real life. That's a whole different topic. Actually, you have basically inverted what I am suggesting.

I was trying to say that while playing GT Sport, just watching replays of others and trying to copy can only teach a certain amount and severely limits your in game skills. Especially for someone who is not close to top ten times.

What I am suggesting is learning from books and websites to learn real life race theory. Then apply that theory to the game.

Watching GT Sport replays of slow players, it's easy to see what they are doing wrong from a real world racing perspective. Apexing too early and not using the full width of the track are probably the most common mistakes for slow GT Sport players. Anyone who understands real world racing can point this out, even if they have never played GT Sport.
 
Lappari990
I usually finish in top 8 if it goes well.
Click to expand...
Isn’t that just way more better than seemed when reading your opening post ? Not everyone is skilled to be the best. You can enjoy races from the middle and top 8 seems pretty good to me. The fun is in the race.

EDIT: when typing this I checked your kuddo stats. That is not very good indeed. Now we really need to see some videos from you. I am positive we can help you get really better with some simple tips ! I am sure you are just doing some basic mistakes we can see immediately and you will be winning at least 1 or 2 seconds within the hours.

It is important that you post the video in the same view you are driving.
 
Alpha Cipher
Sadly no :(
Oh, I do upload races as well, albeit less often than hotlaps, so I can show how to overtake and defend or be aggressive in general without being dirty
Click to expand...

One of my defensive moves is to decide where I will leave room for someone to attempt a pass. At Suzuka the straight leading to 130R is a common place for someone to draft and try to pass. I will leave about 1/2 to 3/4 of a car width on the inside to try to make someone who wants to pass go around me on the outside, unfortunately there are many willing to put 2 wheels in the grass and wipe us both out for an attempted pass, it drives me crazy. I think leaving no room on 1 side is much more fair than swerving which is a tactic I wont use.
 
fastone371
One of my defensive moves is to decide where I will leave room for someone to attempt a pass. At Suzuka the straight leading to 130R is a common place for someone to draft and try to pass. I will leave about 1/2 to 3/4 of a car width on the inside to try to make someone who wants to pass go around me on the outside, unfortunately there are many willing to put 2 wheels in the grass and wipe us both out for an attempted pass, it drives me crazy. I think leaving no room on 1 side is much more fair than swerving which is a tactic I wont use.
Click to expand...

I also do this.

Got replays of people wiping out on the way up the hill after the 1st corner of Mount Panorama.

I'm not making any turns on the wheel or closing the door, just holding position.


Also had someone weaving from side to side yesterday across the start/finish line of Dragon Trail.

Not blocking but just trying to break the tow.

I didn't follow after the first weave and got along side at the braking point as it was quicker to straight line it.

We were battling for the last three quarters of the race and he only finished in front after we swapped places several times due to me almost running out of juice and having to extreme fuel save on the last lap.

Congratulated each other at the end and after closing down the finish screen noticed I had a follow from him for the clean battling.
 
fastone371
One of my defensive moves is to decide where I will leave room for someone to attempt a pass. At Suzuka the straight leading to 130R is a common place for someone to draft and try to pass. I will leave about 1/2 to 3/4 of a car width on the inside to try to make someone who wants to pass go around me on the outside, unfortunately there are many willing to put 2 wheels in the grass and wipe us both out for an attempted pass, it drives me crazy. I think leaving no room on 1 side is much more fair than swerving which is a tactic I wont use.
Click to expand...
Let's take that example so we have common ground. If I were the defender, what I would do is I'd defend 1 side leaving no room (the inside) to completely force the other guy to go outside. And then when the attacker does go outside, I'll then "go back to the racing line" and try to be as wide as I can without obstructing the attacker's outside line.
Spaces don't work properly so here instead:
Screenshot_2018-07-16-00-04-28.png
Or, what I could do is an undercut. It wouldn't be ideal in this specific example, but I commonly use it in hairpins. What I could do is move to the outside, give the inside to the opponent. I'll maintain an overlap until just before the entry, where I will decelerate much earlier than the attacker to completely lose the overlap.
The reasoning behind this is I've successfully compromised the attacker's line, giving them a poor exit. I on the other hand, can basically flat-out 130R because of it and have a better exit than the attacker. The attacker can either try to maintain their line and go wide, giving me room to flex my much better exit; or they can keep the inside to prevent me from fully utilizing my exit. However because of this, I will get an inside overlap for the final chicane. Win-win :D
 
Alpha Cipher
Let's take that example so we have common ground. If I were the defender, what I would do is I'd defend 1 side leaving no room (the inside) to completely force the other guy to go outside. And then when the attacker does go outside, I'll then "go back to the racing line" and try to be as wide as I can without obstructing the attacker's outside line.
Spaces don't work properly so here instead:
View attachment 751300
Or, what I could do is an undercut. It wouldn't be ideal in this specific example, but I commonly use it in hairpins. What I could do is move to the outside, give the inside to the opponent. I'll maintain an overlap until just before the entry, where I will decelerate much earlier than the attacker to completely lose the overlap.
The reasoning behind this is I've successfully compromised the attacker's line, giving them a poor exit. I on the other hand, can basically flat-out 130R because of it and have a better exit than the attacker. The attacker can either try to maintain their line and go wide, giving me room to flex my much better exit; or they can keep the inside to prevent me from fully utilizing my exit. However because of this, I will get an inside overlap for the final chicane. Win-win :D
Click to expand...

That's a good solution too:cheers:
For reasons I dont understand setting up passes by going in the first corner a little slow to gain higher exit speed on the next straight doesnt seem to work as well as it should, not sure if its PD's physics, differences in car manufacturers, or just me, still trying to figure it out
 
fastone371
That's a good solution too:cheers:
For reasons I dont understand setting up passes by going in the first corner a little slow to gain higher exit speed on the next straight doesnt seem to work as well as it should, not sure if its PD's physics, differences in car manufacturers, or just me, still trying to figure it out
Click to expand...
Slowing down earlier isn't all there is to it, but rather the additional control you get by slowing down earlier. You can have a much later turn-in with a slower entry without veering off into the barriers, so in turn I can have a much later, straighter exit :)
Their effectiveness varies from corner to corner, but as my rule of thumb its effectiveness is proportional to the degree of the turn, save for some exceptions. In actual application, an undercut at 130R will rarely work, but you can bet that it will almost always work for T1 at Yamagiwa. It's a matter of trial-and-error :)
It's also harder to do in Gr. 3 because they're a bit more unstable, so that could discourage you from planting the throttle down earlier than you should to be able to get that rocket exit
 
Lappari990
I've been driving gt sport for about 150 hours and now i feel, that it is so hard to improve lap times. I am about four seconds slower than top 100 almost on every track. Feels like i am just banging my head against the wall and i can't find any ways to improve.
Click to expand...

I'm not really experienced simracer too (probably less than You), but what makes me feel progress in GTS is:

1. Consistency - much more important than lap times. Of course You have to try to be as fast as possible, but it's much harder to repeat similar lap times 5, 10, ... 30 in a row. This is what makes difference in a Sport Mode. No matter how fast You would be, it's hard to gain a position in a race if you cannot keep the pace. GTS will match You with players with similar qualification lap times. It's safe to assume that other players qualified to the race get (more less) lap times similar to their qualification hot laps.

2. Confidence - hot lapping and racing are completely different things. During the race you often cannot drive optimal racing line. You have to get used to approaching corners from different positions, different break points... Consistency helps a lot to become confident on a track.

3. Patience - don't try to enter online race unless you're able to consistently drive a lap at pace in which you feel confident. Drive as many laps as you can before entering the race. Use Time trial more (with BoP) to master your times.

4. Don't look at top 100. They are mad, not having families, eating, nor sleeping. They've played GT's for 20 years. ;)

And one more - this game is not about winning race at all costs, it's about gaining positions in a race. Try to defend position adequate to Your skills (some say your racing number shows this) or gain some positions if you can.

And really one more thing some tips that are helping me:
http://www.thesimpit.com/en/news/comments/9-Core-tips-and-driving-techniques-for-all-drivers
 
Last edited:
I will share the two ways that i use to improve my lap times, one is to watch replays of people better than you, to see where they are faster and how you can improve your line, braking and acceleration, than you can go practicing and try to mimic the player until you get there, if you get there you watch again replays of people better than you and repeat the process until you can, the other way is searching in YouTube the best players you can find explaining turn by turn the track that you want to master, they explain how to approach turns with tips that is difficult to catch only watching replays, this is a very good example that made me much better:



and this is another very good one (use subtitles):



i hope that these work for you.
 
Whitey093
Click to expand...


The video was a very good watch.

Now what would be interesting is seeing if he now were to apply what he had learned of the limitations of the car and what as far as real world track limits actually are and came back and turned online laps applying those real world limits to his online racing what if any would be the difference in his online lap times that what he did before the actual racing experience.

I bet his new online lap would be slower as a result.

I know for a fact that one of the things that holds my pace back is driving the car to take care of the equipment and not abusing curb or track limits that in the real world would destroy suspension, tires and splitters on the car.

I am fine staying within those realistic limits and understand that I will never be one of the fast racers but to me such unrealistic practices and in some cases track limits being used within the game ruins the racing aspect of it being an actual representation of realistic racing.

I also saw where in the video they were telling him to shift earlier and stay off the rev limiter as again in the game not doing so will not cost you an engine or transmission or some other drive train parts. Again for me an immersion killer but doing it as would be acceptable in the real world can cost a little in some instances with pace.

I think from personal experiences and my comparing the sim racing to real world is if you apply actual real world logics to sim racing it will slow you down in the virtual world.

Yes you do have a better understanding of racing lines, putting corners together and finding your braking and turn in points but if you treat the virtual curb as you do the real life one you will be slower in the virtual world period.

Most real world cars driven on the real world track the same as in the virtual world would be only a handful of laps before they were no longer driveable and were in the garage needing multiple thousands of dollars in repairs. :gtpflag:
 
VFOURMAX1
The video was a very good watch.

Now what would be interesting is seeing if he now were to apply what he had learned of the limitations of the car and what as far as real world track limits actually are and came back and turned online laps applying those real world limits to his online racing what if any would be the difference in his online lap times that what he did before the actual racing experience.

I bet his new online lap would be slower as a result.

I know for a fact that one of the things that holds my pace back is driving the car to take care of the equipment and not abusing curb or track limits that in the real world would destroy suspension, tires and splitters on the car.

I am fine staying within those realistic limits and understand that I will never be one of the fast racers but to me such unrealistic practices and in some cases track limits being used within the game ruins the racing aspect of it being an actual representation of realistic racing.

I also saw where in the video they were telling him to shift earlier and stay off the rev limiter as again in the game not doing so will not cost you an engine or transmission or some other drive train parts. Again for me an immersion killer but doing it as would be acceptable in the real world can cost a little in some instances with pace.

I think from personal experiences and my comparing the sim racing to real world is if you apply actual real world logics to sim racing it will slow you down in the virtual world.

Yes you do have a better understanding of racing lines, putting corners together and finding your braking and turn in points but if you treat the virtual curb as you do the real life one you will be slower in the virtual world period.

Most real world cars driven on the real world track the same as in the virtual world would be only a handful of laps before they were no longer driveable and were in the garage needing multiple thousands of dollars in repairs. :gtpflag:
Click to expand...
"Tips for the beginner"

Of course you need to apply basic real-life theories to at least be decent in GTS, like the basic racing line and basic throttle/brake modulation. You're going too deep into this for giving out "Tips for the beginner"
 
VFOURMAX1
The video was a very good watch.

Now what would be interesting is seeing if he now were to apply what he had learned of the limitations of the car and what as far as real world track limits actually are and came back and turned online laps applying those real world limits to his online racing what if any would be the difference in his online lap times that what he did before the actual racing experience.

I bet his new online lap would be slower as a result.

I know for a fact that one of the things that holds my pace back is driving the car to take care of the equipment and not abusing curb or track limits that in the real world would destroy suspension, tires and splitters on the car.

I am fine staying within those realistic limits and understand that I will never be one of the fast racers but to me such unrealistic practices and in some cases track limits being used within the game ruins the racing aspect of it being an actual representation of realistic racing.

I also saw where in the video they were telling him to shift earlier and stay off the rev limiter as again in the game not doing so will not cost you an engine or transmission or some other drive train parts. Again for me an immersion killer but doing it as would be acceptable in the real world can cost a little in some instances with pace.

I think from personal experiences and my comparing the sim racing to real world is if you apply actual real world logics to sim racing it will slow you down in the virtual world.

Yes you do have a better understanding of racing lines, putting corners together and finding your braking and turn in points but if you treat the virtual curb as you do the real life one you will be slower in the virtual world period.

Most real world cars driven on the real world track the same as in the virtual world would be only a handful of laps before they were no longer driveable and were in the garage needing multiple thousands of dollars in repairs. :gtpflag:
Click to expand...
This is an interesting point. Of course, if you treat a racing game like real life you will be slower. The opposite is also true, if you treat real life like a racing game you'll be dead.

I didn't get a chance to watch it all, but despite not taking care of the car, I'm guessing he could tell the difference between reality and a game enough to stay alive. If I'm wrong, don't spoil it for me, I plan on watching it soon.

Seriously though, I do have objections to this line of reasoning. Yes, you can choose to treat the game like reality, but that's still a choice. The argument that ignorance is in some way an advantage is the real issue for me.

Here's a couple simple thought experiments:

Take a group of racing drivers who have never played racing games and a group of people that aren't racing drivers and who also haven't played racing games. Sit them all down to play 20 laps of Suzuka on GT Sport.

Now, take a group of people who have played racing games but never raced in real life and a group of people who have never played racing games and also never raced in real life. Sit them all down at a rental kart facility for 20 laps.

In both of the above experiments, you would have to be crazy to bet against the group with more knowledge. Regardless of whether that knowledge was gained in game or in real life, that knowledge is still a huge advantage that can be applied.
 
DriftMethod
In both of the above experiments, you would have to be crazy to bet against the group with more knowledge. Regardless of whether that knowledge was gained in game or in real life, that knowledge is still a huge advantage that can be applied
Click to expand...

I fully agree the knowledge gained from knowing racing as far as reading a track or racing line will be an advantage in both the real world and the virtual world against those that have no clue or do not possess that knowledge.

But there is definitely a point to where knowledge or experience in the real world can actually become a hindrance if that knowledge is applied to the virtual world. There are many instances where in GTS that using the "Alien fast" line which means jumping curbs, leaving the racing surface completely or putting two wheels on a curbing and two in the dirt works fine in GTS but the real world results will not be the same.

Many people have a hard time with accepting that GTS is a game and although the skills of perhaps learning a layout or applying or understanding a general racing line or concept can easily be helpful in transitioning to real world track racing as far as where the car limits are or what you can or cannot get away with do not make that same easy transfer between worlds.

Take your scenario of the group of 20 racers with a lot of virtual world experience and none racing in the real world versus 20 that have a lot of real world experience but no virtual world experience you would probably find that the virtual world players would win in GTS because the real world players would not be trying to run the same lines in the game that would never work in the real world without serious consequences.

But in the real world your group of 20 virtual racers not knowing any better because it worked fine in the game in the real world would end up with a lot of torn up machinery or perhaps even dead. So sometimes the knowledge you think you have does not make the crossover.

Even in the video the virtual world racer was attending one of the best racing instructional schools in the country that can take your sister and teach her to drive a race car around the track. Take that same virtual racer with no real world skills and put him on the track without some of the best instructors in the world guiding the transaction from one world to another and see if the results work so well.

It seems every transition story into the real world includes a lot of professional guidance and instruction non of these virtual world racers just get into a race car and turn competitive Vettel paced lap times.

But all of that added instruction is played down in the miracle transition story you are supposed to be hearing.

Yes they understand general racecraft which is an advantage over not having that prior knowledge but otherwise they may or not be a fast racer just like the rest of the population.

In the virtual world hitting the wall does not destroy 100's of thousands of dollars worth of a race car and sure does not risk serious injury or death. Much easier to hang it out on the edge when the only consequence would be to hit the reset button and start over.
 
VFOURMAX1
But there is definitely a point to where knowledge or experience in the real world can actually become a hindrance if that knowledge is applied to the virtual world. There are many instances where in GTS that using the "Alien fast" line which means jumping curbs, leaving the racing surface completely or putting two wheels on a curbing and two in the dirt works fine in GTS but the real world results will not be the same.
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with you, but the thing is this thread is titled "Tips for beginners". We can talk about "Alien Lines" that don't necessarily reflect real racing, but that's for another thread if one would ask for more "advanced" tips. All of these posts about how real-life lines will be slower in GTS after reaching a certain skill level will be very confusing for a beginner who may not know the basic racing line, or one that may know how the basic racing line works, but cannot apply it yet

For now, the basic real-life racing line of "out-in-out", "the use of the full width of the track", and "late apexes" will be much more beneficial and easy to teach than "Alien Lines" that doesn't necessarily follow logic or conventional knowledge, such as "curb cutting"
 
fastone371
They dont talk about how much instruction he went through before they put him in the car so it makes it tough to baseline against someone else. .
Click to expand...

Skip Barber would never put someone, with no real driving experience, behind one of their cars without putting them through some sort of instructional clinic. So it's a fine baseline since they would do the same for any driver that they would test. Their basic racing school class is 8 hours for $2,000 so he probably got the 2 or 3 hour truncated safety version.
 
VFOURMAX1
But there is definitely a point to where knowledge or experience in the real world can actually become a hindrance if that knowledge is applied to the virtual world.
Click to expand...
I selected the above sentence to pinpoint where we are diverging. It is the "if" that we are really discussing.

We both are making valid points, but my perspective is based on the assumption that people can understand the difference between virtual and real world and will adjust accordingly. Your points seems to be based on the limitations of each skillset and the portions that don't cross over.

I think we are pretty much in full agreement, but you must understand that I am in no way implying that an Alien will be able to compete with Vettel in the real world or vice versa. I am simply stating that there is a fundamental shared racing knowledge that is a prerequisite to becoming fast in any medium.
 

Latest Posts

Back