Tire life

[ITCC_Andrew]

Hello all!

I am just curious, please, if a tuner or anyone knows specifically about tire life. A lot of the series I'm currently running in are trying to find a balance between lap times and tire life. So, I want to try to increase my tire life, while trying to keep a somewhat competitive car for lap times.

Example: We (in the Rolex Series and ALMS last week) were at Daytona, and in both series, we were running about 1:45s and 1:46s, but I had to pit twice as often in the ALMS as I did in the Rolex, because of tire wear. The cars were: 1280 kg 465 hp Audi R8 4.2 and a 590 hp 1342 kg BMW.

So, I'm really looking for a detailed summary of the effect that each aspect of tuning has on the tire life. I understand the basic details, but, if anyone could give me more elaborate details, it'd be much appreciated!


Finally, I'm REALLY sorry if this is in a different thread. If so, I'd be willing to close it, if there's another thread that goes into elaborate detail about tire wear.

 

[MSTER232]

Hello all!

I am just curious, please, if a tuner or anyone knows specifically about tire life. A lot of the series I'm currently running in are trying to find a balance between lap times and tire life. So, I want to try to increase my tire life, while trying to keep a somewhat competitive car for lap times.

Example: We (in the Rolex Series and ALMS last week) were at Daytona, and in both series, we were running about 1:45s and 1:46s, but I had to pit twice as often in the ALMS as I did in the Rolex, because of tire wear. The cars were: 1280 kg 465 hp Audi R8 4.2 and a 590 hp 1342 kg BMW.

So, I'm really looking for a detailed summary of the effect that each aspect of tuning has on the tire life. I understand the basic details, but, if anyone could give me more elaborate details, it'd be much appreciated!


Finally, I'm REALLY sorry if this is in a different thread. If so, I'd be willing to close it, if there's another thread that goes into elaborate detail about tire wear.

If you was in the BMW then no wonder why you had to pit more often because there is more weight and therefore more pressure on the tire which reduces tyre life. Also, since the BMW is FR, and the AUDI is AWD, the AWD tends to have a more even tyre wear rate (when all the tyres wear out at the same time). But because the BMW is RWD, the rear tyres will tend to wear out quicker than the front ones, and because the front ones will have more grip due to wearing out less, this causes for some understeer and slower laptimes.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

If you was in the BMW then no wonder why you had to pit more often because there is more weight and therefore more pressure on the tire which reduces tyre life. Also, since the BMW is FR, and the AUDI is AWD, the AWD tends to have a more even tyre wear rate (when all the tyres wear out at the same time). But because the BMW is RWD, the rear tyres will tend to wear out quicker than the front ones, and because the front ones will have more grip due to wearing out less, this causes for some understeer and slower laptimes.

Thanks for the quick reply! Ironically, (and not by accident) the BMW gets more even tire life. I am running the BMW with stiffer rear springs than fronts, to balance out the suspension (for neutral steering off-throttle) and a somewhat soft (understeer) differential. I'm trying that.

I read in another, relevant thread, that the ride height affects tire life. Can someone please explain? I thought, that a lower ride height (avoiding bottoming out) would improve the balance of the car, and therefore improve tire life, but, apparently, that's not the case.

Also, I understand that softer suspension will reduce tire wear, but, is there a "perfect-point," at which the car doesn't put too much pressure on the tires, or load too much on the tires?

Finally, I'm running -2.0 degrees of camber in the front, because that's where the engine is, and so I believe that this may be wrong. I talked to someone else, on PSN, and he recommended that. Anyways, do the tuners here agree with -2.0?

 

[MSTER232]

Thanks for the quick reply! Ironically, (and not by accident) the BMW gets more even tire life. I am running the BMW with stiffer rear springs than fronts, to balance out the suspension (for neutral steering off-throttle) and a somewhat soft (understeer) differential. I'm trying that.

I read in another, relevant thread, that the ride height affects tire life. Can someone please explain? I thought, that a lower ride height (avoiding bottoming out) would improve the balance of the car, and therefore improve tire life, but, apparently, that's not the case.

Also, I understand that softer suspension will reduce tire wear, but, is there a "perfect-point," at which the car doesn't put too much pressure on the tires, or load too much on the tires?

Finally, I'm running -2.0 degrees of camber in the front, because that's where the engine is, and so I believe that this may be wrong. I talked to someone else, on PSN, and he recommended that. Anyways, do the tuners here agree with -2.0?

Higher and softer springs increase tyre life because it allows more body roll which will cause the tyre to not be completely flat in the corners, meaning less tyre in contact with the road.

 

[Nicktune]

trying to find a balance between lap times and tire life

Not sure if you are lookiing for different tire set...From our friend at the 450pp club: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6385290#post6385290

 

[Peasantslayer]

Anything that stops tyres screeching or smoking excessively is good for extending tyre life such as

- applying the throttle smoothly
- applying the brakes smoothly
- increasing downforce
- rounding out corners more instead of chucking it in
- adding a little bit of traction control
- you could choose a car that is 4WD
- move the brake balance towards the front slightly
- make the front slightly lower than the rear
- you can reduce oversteer by stiffening the front springs or softening the rear
- mess around with the LSD settings https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=196383
- most importantly make sure you don't go off the track, a big slide can really destroy your tyres

I'm no expert but just trying to help.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Anything that stops tyres screeching or smoking excessively is good for extending tyre life such as

- applying the throttle smoothly
- applying the brakes smoothly
- increasing downforce
- rounding out corners more instead of chucking it in
- adding a little bit of traction control
- you could choose a car that is 4WD
- move the brake balance towards the front slightly
- make the front slightly lower than the rear
- you can reduce oversteer by stiffening the front springs or softening the rear
- mess around with the LSD settings https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=196383
- most importantly make sure you don't go off the track, a big slide can really destroy your tyres

I'm no expert but just trying to help.

Not sure if you are lookiing for different tire set...From our friend at the 450pp club: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6385290#post6385290

Higher and softer springs increase tyre life because it allows more body roll which will cause the tyre to not be completely flat in the corners, meaning less tyre in contact with the road.

Thank you all! Especially MSTER232, for explaining the physics behind the higher ride height with lower spring rates. But, an interesting idea, would be to get the entire outside wheel close to flat on the track, for a balance between optimal speed and even tire wear between the inner/outer edges of the tires?

 

[Peasantslayer]

Thank you all! Especially MSTER232, for explaining the physics behind the higher ride height with lower spring rates. But, an interesting idea, would be to get the entire outside wheel close to flat on the track, for a balance between optimal speed and even tire wear between the inner/outer edges of the tires?

isn't that what negative camber is for? so that the wheel is tilting inwards down the straights but flat when it is pushed around a corner so that more grip is achieved.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Higher and softer springs increase tyre life because it allows more body roll which will cause the tyre to not be completely flat in the corners, meaning less tyre in contact with the road.

isn't that what negative camber is for? so that the wheel is tilting inwards down the straights but flat when it is pushed around a corner so that more grip is achieved.

That's why I'm asking; compare your idea with the idea MSTER232 has provided. There's a slight disconnect, because both ideas have a solid grounding, but, we don't have quite enough telemetry to prove either correct.

Like, every time I tuned a car back in Forza, I tuned so that the tires were flat in the corners. But, I don't have that telemetry, so I really can't tell which is actually best. I haven't been able to test this, because a) in real life, one would simply take the wheels off, after they are worn, analyze the damage, and tune accordingly and b) the game doesn't have thorough enough telemetry, to really tell me how the camber is affecting the even wear across both edges of the tires.

An old neighbour of mine's car (a Chevy Cavalier) had sports tires on, but, I could tell that he was using it on an oval with an incorrect camber setting, because the right edges of all four tires were bald and feathered, while the insides still had usable grip. I've seen the effects on tire wear; the tires still looked new on the left side, but, it was horrible on the right sides of the tires.

That's how I knew, that no one was going to buy his car, when he tried to sell it. The poor guy... I think he gave it to the guy across the street for free...

 

[Johnnypenso]

1. Balance the handling of the car between over and understeer.
2. Roll on the throttle exiting the corners so the tires don't spin.
3. Minimal steering inpt. Don't over steer the wheel or the DS3 (good luck with the DS3...lol)
4. Avoid the tire squealing sound as much as possible. This is PD's not so subtle signal that you are wearing the tires out.

The tune is important but mostly to the extent of making the car balanced so you can be consistent in cornering. As soon as you begin kicking out the back end due to oversteer on entry or exit, or pushing the front end due to imbalanced front tire wear, your tire wear will increase exponentially. Easier in to the corners, the car will turn slightly sharper, so you can get on the throttle a bit earlier and your lap times will not be affected too much, compared to a qualifying lap time.

When you pit, take on only enough fuel to make the end of the race as needed, if any, as I believe PD does add something for the weight of the fuel. Cars seem faster as the tank empties and it helps with tire wear of course.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

1. Balance the handling of the car between over and understeer.
2. Roll on the throttle exiting the corners so the tires don't spin.
3. Minimal steering inpt. Don't over steer the wheel or the DS3 (good luck with the DS3...lol)
4. Avoid the tire squealing sound as much as possible. This is PD's not so subtle signal that you are wearing the tires out.

The tune is important but mostly to the extent of making the car balanced so you can be consistent in cornering. As soon as you begin kicking out the back end due to oversteer on entry or exit, or pushing the front end due to imbalanced front tire wear, your tire wear will increase exponentially. Easier in to the corners, the car will turn slightly sharper, so you can get on the throttle a bit earlier and your lap times will not be affected too much, compared to a qualifying lap time.

When you pit, take on only enough fuel to make the end of the race as needed, if any, as I believe PD does add something for the weight of the fuel. Cars seem faster as the tank empties and it helps with tire wear of course.

Thank you for clarifying the fuel tank empty/full thing. I've never REALLY noticed that difference, but, if it's there, I'll try to skimp a bit more on fuel. Thanks for the help Johnny!

I still have no idea about the camber issue, but, that's not TOO important.

 

[Highlandor]

1. Balance the handling of the car between over and understeer.
2. Roll on the throttle exiting the corners so the tires don't spin.
3. Minimal steering inpt. Don't over steer the wheel or the DS3 (good luck with the DS3...lol)
4. Avoid the tire squealing sound as much as possible. This is PD's not so subtle signal that you are wearing the tires out.

The tune is important but mostly to the extent of making the car balanced so you can be consistent in cornering.

This (above)...

One aspect of tyre wear is not just the obvious individual settings or obvious problems like wheelspinning or cornering too hard making tyres smoke / go red etc.

It's very much a balance, not only in the setup but in driving style too.

The reason being is that when your tyres get below 50%, this can affect some cars more than others. But if you have a good balanced setup and good driving style, you'll be able to look after what's left of your tyres.

If you don't (have a good balanced setup or drivng style), what's left (the last 50% of your tyres) can dissappear in a fraction of the time it took to wear down the first 50%.

I've been in races where it took 6/7 laps to do the first 50%, but the other 50% is gone in the next 2 laps.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice 1 or 2 seconds a lap by "detuning" your car for less grip. Ultimately, for each 1 second you loose on a good lap, you might save 10-20-30 seconds by the end of the race because you haven't lost control or pitted too much and wasted both time and /or tyre wear.

👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have only really tested near empty tanks once or twice in a GT500 car at Trial Mountain and it did shave more than 1.5 seconds as the tank emptied out and I put on fresh tires.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

This (above)...

One aspect of tyre wear is not just the obvious individual settings or obvious problems like wheelspinning or cornering too hard making tyres smoke / go red etc.

It's very much a balance, not only in the setup but in driving style too.

The reason being is that when your tyres get below 50%, this can affect some cars more than others. But if you have a good balanced setup and good driving style, you'll be able to look after what's left of your tyres.

If you don't (have a good balanced setup or drivng style), what's left (the last 50% of your tyres) can dissappear in a fraction of the time it took to wear down the first 50%.

I've been in races where it took 6/7 laps to do the first 50%, but the other 50% is gone in the next 2 laps.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice 1 or 2 seconds a lap by "detuning" your car for less grip. Ultimately, for each 1 second you loose on a good lap, you might save 10-20-30 seconds by the end of the race because you haven't lost control or pitted too much and wasted both time and /or tyre wear.

👍

I have only really tested near empty tanks once or twice in a GT500 car at Trial Mountain and it did shave more than 1.5 seconds as the tank emptied out and I put on fresh tires.

Thanks guys, I'll try both of these ideas soon. Good news! While I DO enjoy this thread, I think my tire wear's improving. So, take pride in knowing that this is helping and keep the thread alive, so that people can see it! I might ask a moderator to sticky this. (Perhaps)

I think people will find this helpful. But, it's not as good as Chuyrl's thread, so, I might ask to have both threads stickied.

 

[Master_gamer438]

I notice - toe helps save tires. Even ride height burns tires evenly. Springs effect the weight transfer, ex. You have soft springs up front, slightly stiffer in the rear, When you turn right or left hard the outside front tire receives the worst. Or in a MR car it can be both outside tires. I also try to run camber at 1.0 or lower. Downforce helps but on a streetcar I really see no benefit of having a wing if you cant adjust front DF. With that said every car is different, and figuring out the best toe is essential. By changing toe and slightly adjust LSD I got my no aero NSX at 550PP(Only makes 549PP w/o a wing) went from 1 lap to make 2 laps at Nurburg. Keep in mind, no wing = no DF. On top of that weight position is 45/55(Stock). I cant add weight to balance car or I lose PP. Still 2 laps w/ 45/55 is great. On racing softs.