Too aggressive?

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TheGeologist

TheGeologist

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pie4july
I'm curious if the community thinks this was too aggressive of a move.

I'm pie4july in the Hyundai. I was getting faster as the race went on, and the yellow Ferrari slipped up. Being the last lap, I made my move but we made contact. Too aggressive of a move or did he door check me? It doesn't appear the game penalized anyone, and my SR moved up from A to S following the race

 
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I'll ask you one question: Do you think you could have taken the 2nd part of the chicane at 144mph and still not hit them?

I reckon 90% of the accidents that happen on that track are from the chicane. People scrubbing a bit of speed off to make all the turns isn't an invitation for a lunge. You have to take those corners too.
 
"Too aggressive" isn't really something I consider, I leave that for the armchair Sennas. A pass is either legal or not. In this case I think the pass was legit, he made an error and you got alongside fairly and I think he moved into you because he didn't like it. Whether it was the best place to pass or not is a whole separate issue.
 
In my opinion it is to aggressive.

He left you a slight door but really slight and in general passing in that area is a disaster waiting to happen. Most can’t go side by side through that area with any speed unless you have two very skilled drivers with steering wheels but will be difficult to carry any speed. That chicane is about setting yourself up with a ton of speed to carry that into the next corner which is a much better passing area in both directions on that track.

Sorry just my opinion.
 
Honestly it's quite possible he saw you last second, that wasn't the best attempt too pass though. Most of my passes are putting pressure on the driver in front of me and taking better lines, they make mistakes or simply move out of the way. Sometimes you run into someone who's not having it , I haven't ran into any lately , thankfully, lol.
 
To answer your question, yes it was too aggressive as there's no room to pass there, while you had enough of an overlap to claim the inside those S bends are too fast to get side by side with the car in front and without it ending in disaster. But if I were a steward I'd probably deem it a racing incident because technically you had enough of an overlap to claim the apex so there's a case to be made there, but the thing is if you'd waited until the end of the S bends you would've blown right past him and claimed the spot you were battling for instead of both of you crashing out and losing a bunch of positions.

It was technically legal but not clean because any attempt to pass at that particular spot is going to result in a wreck - patience is a huge part of racing cleanly, even on the final lap.
 
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@TheGeologist

Your move is legit here.He lost the corner and turned from outside to the inside without checking where you are and were you are going.I've said it a lot of times and I will write it again:
People infront cannot go all over the track just because they are in front.The moment that guy decided to change "line" and go to the inside line,that line was already yours.Bad call from him,irl he should have been penalized for that move.
People should realize that being in front does not mean they own all the track in every single situation.Some times they need to check their back/side and race in a clean manner.
 
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Not the best place to overtake imo but it does look like he turned into you to knock you off. BUT it is pretty apparent (twitchy movement) the driver is using the d-pad so it could have been an accident due to how the d-pad handles. Considering view options its likely he didn't even see you aswel.
 
Watching it a few times now I believe the guy in the Ferrari could have given you more room, especially when you're onboard with him you can see that you poked the nose of your car up the inside and the more I watch it the more it looks like he moved over to nudge you! This reply will divide opinion I'm sure but in my view I wouldn't call that aggressive!
 
JulesDennis
@TheGeologist

Your move is legit here.He lost the corner and turned from outside to the inside without checking where you are and were you are going.I've said it a lot of times and I will write it again:
People infront cannot go all over the track just because they are in front.The moment that guy decided to change "line" and go to the inside line,that line was already yours.Bad call from him,irl he should have been penalized for that move.
People should realize that being in front does not mean they own all the track in every single situation.Some times they need to check their back/side and race in a clean mannet.
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Agree with your assessment just would change something here.

The car in front is entitled to choose whatever line they like whilst they are in front, the moment this changed is when the OP legitimately pulls alongside then it comes a “fight” and racing room needs to be given.

Something for the OP to think about though, thanks for including the previous corner it tells us a lot about the driver your racing, and that he was always going to be a very aggressive defender. The way he cuts across your bow in the sweeping right hander should be sounding the warning bells that spatially and racecraft wise he is certainly lacking.

For all those that are saying you shouldn’t be overtaking in a chicane, you couldn’t be further wrong, there is no part of any race track that is off limits to making a pass, it all depends and only ever depends on legally getting alongside a car, if thats achieved and racing room is given anything is fair game.

As for being too aggressive as @Johnnypenso said, wrong question, it only ever needs to be was it legal?

So no not agressive good racing, unfortunately with someone who bottled the entry due to pressure and then didnt have the awareness to race door to door.
 
Well. I think that guy in Ferrari didn't saw you. He was concentrating for taking the best apex he can. Was it to agressive? A little bit, but i don't think this is big mistake. It could end up well if Ferrari would go wider.
 
Ferrari guy probably wasn't using Radar and was probably not using 3rd person view, didnt see you and accidentally turned in on your (imo) perfectly fine overtake attempt. If I saw someone stick half their car up the inside I'd give them room and race them through the corner wide and hope the next corner was a left hander so I could take the inside :D
 
rono_thomas
Agree with your assessment just would change something here.

The car in front is entitled to choose whatever line they like whilst they are in front, the moment this changed is when the OP legitimately pulls alongside then it comes a “fight” and racing room needs to be given.

Something for the OP to think about though, thanks for including the previous corner it tells us a lot about the driver your racing, and that he was always going to be a very aggressive defender. The way he cuts across your bow in the sweeping right hander should be sounding the warning bells that spatially and racecraft wise he is certainly lacking.

For all those that are saying you shouldn’t be overtaking in a chicane, you couldn’t be further wrong, there is no part of any race track that is off limits to making a pass, it all depends and only ever depends on legally getting alongside a car, if thats achieved and racing room is given anything is fair game.

As for being too aggressive as @Johnnypenso said, wrong question, it only ever needs to be was it legal?

So no not agressive good racing, unfortunately with someone who bottled the entry due to pressure and then didnt have the awareness to race door to door.
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I agree that the car in front can choose any line he wants and keep that line (that is in general).
But here its a "spesific" insident and we have to see it as it happend.
If we pause the video at 0.26,we can see the Ferrari outside of the track (all 4 wheels).
That means that he has to enter back in a safe manner.Its his responsibility to do so.With that said he cannot "choose" any line -at that time- because he is not even on track.He has to come back in a "line" that is safe.He does not do that.100% fault of the Ferrari and would get a penalty from a human official (in sim racing or rl racing).
 
JulesDennis
I agree that the car in front can choose any line he wants and keep that line (that is in general).
But here its a "spesific" insident and we have to see it as it happend.
If we pause the video at 0.26,we can see the Ferrari outside of the track (all 4 wheels).
That means that he has to enter back in a safe manner.Its his responsibility to do so.With that said he cannot "choose" any line -at that time- because he is not even on track.He has to come back in a "line" that is safe.He does not do that.100% fault of the Ferrari and would get a penalty from a human official (in sim racing or rl racing).
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I only said anything because your first post was written generally.

JulesDennis
People infront cannot go all over the track just because they are in front.
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Other than that Im in agreement.
 
I think the result speaks for itself. It was the 10th lap. So you should know the track by now and you should know how he defends his position. With this in mind, there was simply no way for you to pass him clean and get the corners right in this situation. In the end you ruined his race and you didn’t gain any position. Just stay behind him and maybe he will make another mistake in the last corner.


But what bugs me the most is, that you seem to steer left after you both crashed. It looks like you want to run him in the wall… but you ghosted. :D
 
rono_thomas
Other than that Im in agreement.
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FIA have specific rules about defending a position.So a driver can pick any line he wants to defend -one time-,but he cannot (under rules) change it because -example- the attacker changes the line he is attaching.

" Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason."
"
More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted."
"
Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted."

In this case the Ferrari is actually breaking all these basic FIA rules.

EDIT:
To some people that do not know the basic rules of racing (this is not for you @rono_thomas ) :
You should read them and understand them before making any comment about an incident.If we dont know the rules we cannot make judgments.
 
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I love that feeling when you see the two cars in front driving like that, just watching and waiting for the inevitable easy place gains when they take each other out.
 
Loopdreams
I love that feeling when you see the two cars in front driving like that, just watching and waiting for the inevitable easy place gains when they take each other out.
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Actually OP was driving well while the Ferrari is all over the place but I get your point and I agree ;) .
 
In a fair racing world, the Ferrari would have given you room. In situations like this you are relying 100% on the other driver to give you space. You had no control on the outcome as you had already made your move and put your car in a position where the other driver had to make a choice - let you through or cause an accident. Personally, I would have waited until the next corner and pass him on the home straight. If he didn't see you then he deserved all he got :lol:.
 
The question wasn't was this move legal, as it was as per the rules, the question asked was it too aggressive and based on the outcome it certainly was.
 
TeWheke
The question wasn't was this move legal, as it was as per the rules, the question asked was it too aggressive and based on the outcome it certainly was.
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The result is due to the Ferrari's move and not OP's move.
So your point is kinda invalid since OP did not do anything wrong.
 
I think you did well. Maybe not the best place to overtake but the door was open. And if you look at the video the ferrari steers into you IMO.
And in the wise words of some famous reacedriver: Being a racing driver means you are racing with other people and if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing
 
I've watched it a few times and I think it would be generous to call it an overtake, the guy in front made a clear error and ran wide into the chicane and then tried to rectify it by diving across the track. But came into contact with yourself who, was just taking the fairly usual line while giving him some space.


I'm not really sure it was worth it though, you weren't fighting for a win or a podium (or imaginary points) and his driving was pretty erratic before hand, staying close to him only put your own SR points in jeopardy.



Though I will say it's endlessly frustrating to be stuck behind someone who refuses to follow the rules of racing and who just drives into you, either on purpose or through ignorance. The number of races I've had ruined by people like that have put me largely off Sport and forced me out of the FIA stuff all together.
 
rono_thomas
I can honestly say that for me, this never enters my head, racing with this mentality is not racing.
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'Racing' with a low SR isn't racing.

I don't know about anyone else but in Sport mode, you either win, or you loose, there isn't anything else other than fastest lap. So the best thing you can do, if you can't go for the win (for what ever reason) is make sure you maximise your ratings so that you can race against better and cleaner drivers.

I got my SR to A and was able to enjoy a lot of good fights and battles. I then entered one FIA event and the destruction derby that was quali and then the race demoted me to C SR in half a race. Going back into Sport mode with a C SR, against other people with the same or worse SR was horrible.
I was faster than most people again, which was nice, but T1 was like Spa in 2012, every race and people weave and spin out constantly.
I'm now at B SR and I'm still struggling due to people dive bombing, spinning out right in front of me and pushing me off the track.


GT Sport mode has progression ratings, DR and SR. Unless you can get the win and/or are racing with clean drivers you only stand to loose if you aren't mindful of your SR and DR. This isn't real life/real actual racing where you have a team to back you up, where you can appeal and submit data to PD in order to maintain your ratings.
 
Several people seem to think this is a chicane, but it's a string of S curves right? The only chicane on that track, as far as I'm concerned, is the one after the long bend and the quick downhill. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Anyways, this was a rather hairy situation. I would've backed out and waited for a better opportunity. It's very hard to notice the opponents overtake attempt when you have to stay in complete control of your car, as with this section. He didn't anticipate the attack so he only focused on getting back on the racing line.
 
baldgye
'Racing' with a low SR isn't racing.

I don't know about anyone else but in Sport mode, you either win, or you loose, there isn't anything else other than fastest lap. So the best thing you can do, if you can't go for the win (for what ever reason) is make sure you maximise your ratings so that you can race against better and cleaner drivers.

I got my SR to A and was able to enjoy a lot of good fights and battles. I then entered one FIA event and the destruction derby that was quali and then the race demoted me to C SR in half a race. Going back into Sport mode with a C SR, against other people with the same or worse SR was horrible.
I was faster than most people again, which was nice, but T1 was like Spa in 2012, every race and people weave and spin out constantly.
I'm now at B SR and I'm still struggling due to people dive bombing, spinning out right in front of me and pushing me off the track.


GT Sport mode has progression ratings, DR and SR. Unless you can get the win and/or are racing with clean drivers you only stand to loose if you aren't mindful of your SR and DR. This isn't real life/real actual racing where you have a team to back you up, where you can appeal and submit data to PD in order to maintain your ratings.
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My aim now is to not sound snobby,

Whilst the driver rating are progressional I’ve never concerned myself with them, I enter a race with the aim of getting from the start to finish as quickly as possible. Ive been an SR S since after the first week and its not dropped since.

DR will look after itself if you are always racing, if your looking after SR when racing your DR will not potentially be representative.

So why dont I look after SR? Because I want my DR to be representative but also because having good racecraft will avoid the majority of racing incidents and also have the side affect of looking after your SR.

How is this of benefit?

Its a case of racing mentality, making good judgments of when and where to do things. That is more important than driving around with an imaginary shield around your car.

My video below shows what good racecraft can achieve but racing worrying about SR is a waste of brain computing power.

DR: B SR: S

 
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