Too Much Criticism

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KinLM
Hi. I'm new to GTP, and this is my first ever post. Please forgive me if I do anything wrong, or if this is a duplicate of some other thread, I'm still feeling my way around right now, I have no bad intentions and any feedback on things I should do differently is appreciated!

Now, to my point. I've heard so much criticism about GT5, with about every fault it has. Like, how 800 cars are standard, how damage is almost unnoticeable on most cars, how there's a lack of customization, how there's too many Japanese cars, some tracks are better than others, how the game took too long to make, and many other complaints of similar nature.

Personally, I just want to tell anybody who feels this way to think a little bit about this; GT5 is a truly amazing game, and it's still the best. Now I'll explain why.

I prepare to tackle each complaint with a positive outlook as to why it's not such a big deal, starting with the standard cars. Yes, there's 800 of them, and I wish they'd spent more time on adding premium cars than 800 standard cars. However, I've heard people say that these cars are complete copies of the ones in GT4. This isn't entirely true. Im one of the few people who's actually used component cables to unleash the full HD power of GT4. What I see is that all the cars are very stunning, yet they all seem somewhat pixelated. The cars in GT5 look much better. Maybe it's just the progressive scan, I don't know. All I'm saying is, unless you bought a PS2 in the last year of its life (and not many people did that) then these standard cars are much better looking than anything in GT4. And they aren't even that bad, many of them look absolutely stunning. People seem to be forgetting that there's still 800 of them, and that almost any car you can imagine is included in here. I'm actually glad that they put them in the game, especially considering you can complete the game without ever using a single standard car if you want to.

Secondly, damage. People seem to come down hard on this one. Let's not forge that this is the first GT to EVER have damage. While it may be almost unnoticeable on most cars, keep in mind that the damage isn't scripted, that it isn't Pre-set or anything. When you damage your car, it looks unique, and you could probably hit the wall 1000 times without it looking exactly the same as the first time. Give PD time and damage will get better.

Now for customization. Yes, Forza kinda.. Well.. Hmm.. It.. Pretty much demolishes GT5 at this. But keep in mind, that this is the first GT5 when you can even change the color of the car. And it's nice, because if you buy a car with a pretty paint color, then you can paint another car with the exact same color, no guesswork. While the rims selection seems smaller, keep in mind that these rims can be painted any color now, just as the cars. You can have rims that match the exact color of your car now. This is also the first GT where you can make body modifications other than just a spoiler. Not all of them are extreme like in forza, but for the premium cars, most of them look pretty good, and there's a selection of a few, contrary to forza where a few cars have 50 options and then most of them have just the default splitter and wing that forza offers for all cars. Lets not forget RM cars either. While the list is short, it.. Actually is a pretty cool feature, to have a car complete with sponsors, a changeable number, and great performance. Overall, this is another area that PD has always been behind in. Over time, this is sure to get better.

Many people complain that this game has too many cars from Japan. Let's not forget that this game is, after all, a Japanese game. Of course it's going to have more Japanese cars. Especially Nissans, I mean, come on! These two are like partners, that's why there's NISSAN GT ACADEMY! If it was an American game, people wouldn't be complaining if half the cars were muscle cars. Just keep that in mind. Also, let's not forget that they ADDED Ferrari, Lamborghini, and other big name companies in this edition. This is the first "full" GT5 to include them.

Now to tracks. Yes, Special Stage 5 is amazing compared to Grand Valley in terms of detail. But even these older tracks look absolutely amazing, as good as about any other game. Give them a break, they're trying to keep the old classics in the game, if you want these tracks to be better, then they'll either just throw them out, or the game will take even longer to make.

Finally, the wait. Yes, it was way too long. But remember this; they released GT5 Prologue about 3 years after GT4, and GT PSP 2 years after that. It's not like they werent doing anything, it wasn't 5 years inbetween games. It was just 5 years between the BIG, headlining title games. Many other series (such as the GTA series) have also had this major slowing in time between games. Just relax, they're trying to give you the best game possible.

Final note, just keep in mind that if this was a new game, and if PD was just starting out, it would be as big as GT1. They added day to night, rain, and 3 settings of headlights (including side lamps) as well as a course creator, a more refined B spec mode, and when you're looking at their best work, driving a premium car around a premium track, it's hard not to get that amazing feeling that only Gran Turismo could ever deliver.

KinLM.
 
I am so happy that GT5 was produced. It's just what the console market needs, a good proper take on racing sims, and I'm sure GT6 will not dissapoint.
 
The main problem with GT5 is its inconsistent game design. There is no definitive standard in the game which makes "the real driving simulator" slogan justifiable. Instead it's a random collection of puzzling design choices, all which point in several directions. Then we have the gigantic amount of bugs and headless AI. It deserves some critique, even if it's not constructive. It's true that there are many positives but the game is a mess. By the way, one cannot complete the game without using standard cars.
 
I agree with many of the complaints, however the game has way more positives than negatives, with out question.
 
MOTORTRENDmitch
I agree with many of the complaints, however the game has way more positives than negatives, with out question.

Got that right.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. I've seen threads asking whether people are bored with GT5. Really? I can't use any of the online features and I still find the game incredibly exciting and engaging. Sure, there are issues, but what game is perfect?
 
Beeblebrox237
I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. I've seen threads asking whether people are bored with GT5. Really? I can't use any of the online features and I still find the game incredibly exciting and engaging. Sure, there are issues, but what game is perfect?

Chuck Norris the game is perfect.
 
However, I've heard people say that these cars are complete copies of the ones in GT4. This isn't entirely true.
It is exactly true. The only difference is that GT5 runs at a considerably higher resolution than GT4 (GT4's "1080i" wasn't anything near actually being 1080i) and has a considerably better lighting engine. The are only three groups of cars that are different from how they were in GT4: The ones that look considerably worse than they did in GT4 because they are glitched in GT5 to not load the highest LoD model (the infamous Alto Works); the cars in GT5 that look considerably worse because PD did a hack job on the liveries to edit out sponsors and in some cases (CLK-DTM) didn't even bother making sure the textures were applied to the car body; and the occasional car where PD actually took the time to fix them when they had problems in GT4 (which the only one that springs to mind is the Spyker).

Secondly, damage. People seem to come down hard on this one. Let's not forge that this is the first GT to EVER have damage. While it may be almost unnoticeable on most cars, keep in mind that the damage isn't scripted, that it isn't Pre-set or anything. When you damage your car, it looks unique, and you could probably hit the wall 1000 times without it looking exactly the same as the first time. Give PD time and damage will get better.

Now for customization. Yes, Forza kinda.. Well.. Hmm.. It.. Pretty much demolishes GT5 at this. But keep in mind, that this is the first GT5 when you can even change the color of the car. And it's nice, because if you buy a car with a pretty paint color, then you can paint another car with the exact same color, no guesswork. While the rims selection seems smaller, keep in mind that these rims can be painted any color now, just as the cars. You can have rims that match the exact color of your car now. This is also the first GT where you can make body modifications other than just a spoiler. Not all of them are extreme like in forza, but for the premium cars, most of them look pretty good, and there's a selection of a few, contrary to forza where a few cars have 50 options and then most of them have just the default splitter and wing that forza offers for all cars. Lets not forget RM cars either. While the list is short, it.. Actually is a pretty cool feature, to have a car complete with sponsors, a changeable number, and great performance. Overall, this is another area that PD has always been behind in. Over time, this is sure to get better.
GT5 being the first game where PD wasn't completely anachronistic over these matters isn't a defense for them being the way they are. Especially not with the way things were hyped by PD for these two features. If they didn't want to be dragged over the coals for the end result of how things turned out, they should not have built those two things up specifically as if they had finally "caught up," so to speak. "Expect perfection" was specifically in regards to the car damage; and it was also considerably better in versions of the game prior to what we ended up with.

Many people complain that this game has too many cars from Japan. Let's not forget that this game is, after all, a Japanese game. Of course it's going to have more Japanese cars.
Forza is an American game. NFS Shift is a European game. Neither title is so drastically skewed towards its home country as GT5 is towards Japan. Particularly not in the form of the shameless padding PD did with the GT5 car count to get that magical "thousand cars" number, where 11 Miatas becomes 33 simply by changing the names.

But even these older tracks look absolutely amazing, as good as about any other game.
Cote D'Azur wasn't particularly good looking in 2001 when PD put it together. And while they have retextured a few of the previously blatant offenders (Deep Forest and Trial Mountain), they are still very inconsistent in design.

And if quantity was the issue and PD wanted to go all out in that regard, they could have done so. There are several tracks in GT4 that look better than the ported tracks in GT5 that aren't in GT5, and even more that could look fine in GT5 with a bit of retexturing. El Capitan is a big one, holding up pretty well today.




Sure, there are issues, but what game is perfect?
There are other games in the series (arguably all of them but GT2) that are an awful lot closer.
 
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@Toronado

That's quite a negative way to look at it all. Why don't you try looking at the positives instead of complaining about the negatives?
 
That's quite a negative way to look at it all. Why don't you try looking at the positives instead of complaining about the negatives?
There is something desperately wrong with this. You're trying to suggest that GT5 is a near-perfect game, right? Because if we only look at the positives, that means that we've reached a point where there can be no improvements made to its successor.
 
1241Penguin
There is something desperately wrong with this. You're trying to suggest that GT5 is a near-perfect game, right? Because if we only look at the positives, that means that we've reached a point where there can be no improvements made to its successor.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that people have too high expectations for this game, that they shouldn't hate on it so much because no game is perfect, but that they should try to be happy about all the work PD put into this game and get ready for the next one, even if it's a ways away. They've made huge improvements every time, GT6 will be no exception.
 
I want my ****ing Complex String and Seattle Circuit back damnit.
 
Connoissuer
I want my ****ing Complex String and Seattle Circuit back damnit.

You're not the only one. Don't forget Special Stage 11, all those dirt tracks, even the wet version of Special stage 5..
 
I want my ****ing Complex String and Seattle Circuit back damnit.

I miss Seattle circuit too ! The only track I ever became really good at way back in the day, now I just suck.
 
Seattle would be amazing online, guess they're holding it back for Gt6.
 
That's quite a negative way to look at it all. Why don't you try looking at the positives instead of complaining about the negatives?
I can just as easily say that your viewpoint is overly idealistic. See how that doesn't continue the discussion any?

You listed out specific things that apparently shouldn't be criticized, and I explained why they were not the way that you were presenting them as. Saying "Well, you're just too negative" in response to that doesn't mean anything in regards to your initial assertions.


I'm saying that people have too high expectations for this game
Being polite about this as possible: Were you here when GT5 hype was happening? Were you paying attention to what was being presented and (more importantly) how the game was being presented in the months up to its release? Because any post that says "your expectations were too high" seems like nothing more than a strawman brought about by not knowing how the expectations actually came about in the first place.

They've made huge improvements every time, GT6 will be no exception.
Highly arguable, this.
 
The more people point out flaws, the less searching PD has to do when designing the next game, if they listen. That's pretty much it.

Accepting the game as is is negative, critiquing it to the most minor imperfection is how you show you care.
 
Toronado
I can just as easily say that your viewpoint is overly idealistic. See how that doesn't continue the discussion any?

You listed out specific things that apparently shouldn't be criticized, and I explained why they were not the way that you were presenting them as. Saying "Well, you're just too negative" in response to that doesn't mean anything in regards to your initial assertions.

Being polite about this as possible: Were you here when GT5 hype was happening? Were you paying attention to what was being presented and (more importantly) how the game was being presented in the months up to its release? Because any post that says "your expectations were too high" seems like nothing more than a strawman brought about by not knowing how the expectations actually came about in the first place.

Highly arguable, this.

Yes, I remember checking the website every day for months about any new news for GT5. I'm not trying to pretend it doesn't have problems, because it does. All I'm saying is, if this was PD's first ever release, and they were just starting out, then people would praise this game much more. It seems that people just got a mindset that this game was going to be more from all the hype leading up to it. I agree, they let us down in many areas. Things they advertised to be great turned out as disappointing. I'm just simply saying that people are really being hard on this game, when it's still one of, if not the, best racing game for consoles.
 
I don't agree that PD have made huge improvements every time. Career mode's a step back from GT4 in terms of variety, structure, challenge and the amount of races involved. I really don't remember it's Bspec mode, or was it just integrated with the A-spec career? If so it was better in Gt4 too - taking the strain out of those endurance events makes a Bob feel useful.
 
They have made big improvements.. You want to see a disaster delete the update data and run GT5 with no updates on RCA cables... That will show you how far this game has come since its launch...

And as far as career mode goes in today's day and age kids that are playing this game don't have an attention span long enough to run 15-45 laps on a regular race.. It's sad but true.. As an adult and GT enthusiast I loved the long races it made it more of a challenge!
 
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Sorry, but Tornado has this completely spot on. Expectations were raised to a level that PD couldn't deliver upon, tracks were shown, features were promised and the vast majority of these were empty promises, or very ill conceived in the end.
I even had someone in my online lounge, who has been playing the game for a while, who actually quoted me the line ",,,,you'll unlock full body damage on all the cars when you reach level 40, so you must be a noob, 'cos all your doors are still on", based on information he read about the damage systems. (I don't know where, but it was relatively common to read this early in the release's life both in forums and games reviews)

As Nielson was mentioning, consistent levels of quality seem to be missing from this outing in the series, and that's where most of the more obvious flaws are. And we're not just talking standards vs premiums in the cars, some of the scenery is shockingly bad, and have no business in a release for a console of the PS3's ability. Take a look at the trees, then look at them again. Pretty sure I would be fired from any design job for thinking that was acceptable, and I would definitely be marched out of the premises of any serious games design house. (maybe even via a window)

Rose tinted glasses and an optimistic outlook can't take away the ugly side of GT5.

I will mention though that I am a daily player, and have no intentions of giving it up in favour of something else. The flaws are something I just "put up with", but really shouldn't have to.

(Edit)
You want to see a disaster delete the update data and run GT5 with no updates on RCA cables... That will show you how far this game has come since its launch...
Pretty sure every game on the PS3 will look horrific if you ditch your HDMI for a set of RCA's, making this argument pretty much useless when addressing GT5 specifically.
 
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I bet every thing discussed here has been discussed before, exactly the same. The guy wanted to know why more people hate than love GT5, simply the answer is exactly the opposite
 
Smuttysy
Pretty sure every game on the PS3 will look horrific if you ditch your HDMI for a set of RCA's, making this argument pretty much useless when addressing GT5 specifically.

Comix zone and sonic 1 & 2 look the same on RCA's...
 
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Comix zone and sonic 1 & 2 look the same on RCA's...

Ummm, where to start!?
Seriously!? 16 bit Megadrive games!?
 
Good or bad, I will take GT as it comes as there is nothing else like it. GT was the reason I bought a PS1, and will be the reason I buy a PS6.
 
Well we could always play that other driving simulator on ps3; oh wait there isn't one. Every game has flaws but most games don't have a website with forums dedicated to them. The only things they really need to fix for gt6 to make me happy would be the engine sounds, it takes a lot away from the real driving experience when my corvette sounds like a skyline or the jag xfr that sounds like a lawnmower. And the load times...........oh so much rage because of the ridiculous load times.
 
I bet every thing discussed here has been discussed before, exactly the same. The guy wanted to know why more people hate than love GT5, simply the answer is exactly the opposite

You are exactly right. Everyone knows the game is not perfect. It’s just that the whiners are SO much more vocal. How many times do some people have to repeat themselves.
 
Chrunch Houston
How many times do some people have to repeat themselves.

As many times as it takes until PD shows they can get it right. GT6 will ultimately determine if PD has been paying attention to things people are complaining about. Until that happens, people will continue to complain to make absolutely sure PD is aware of the problems.
 
It’s just that the whiners are SO much more vocal. How many times do some people have to repeat themselves.
Rather ironic to post something like this in this thread.
 
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