Too Much Criticism

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All I'm saying is, if this was PD's first ever release, and they were just starting out, then people would praise this game much more.
Possibly, you would be right about this. But that's because there aren't any sort of benchmarks set by previous iterations. For example, Gran Turismo 4 managed to have a vast amount of events for people to participate in. Compared with GT5, GT4 was much, much better in terms of events. Furthermore, "PD's first ever release" will inevitably be compared with competing games, namely FM4, and chances are, that the strengths and weaknesses found when comparing the two games are exactly the same. The same problems found in GT5 will also come up in "PD's first ever release," just not as offensively, but the facts remain. It's like "GT5's AI is absolute garbage compared to competing simulators" versus ""PD's first ever release" needs to ramp up its AI, because competing simulators have much more realistic AI." They're both saying the same thing.
I'm just simply saying that people are really being hard on this game, when it's still one of, if not the, best racing game for consoles.
You said it right here:
Things they advertised to be great turned out as disappointing.
If anything, I would say they deserved it, for essentially lying to us. Plus, what is wrong with criticism? If anything, it's only helping them make better decisions for GT6, and it's marketing campaign.
 
Rather ironic to post something like this in this thread.

Although you and I have had our differences in the past Toronado, I have to say everything you have said in this thread is pretty much spot on, at least in my opinion.
 
Many things in this world are lacking.
McDonalds won't provide you nutrition, Obama can't fix the economy, the aliens aren't coming, and GT5 is, well what it is.

While I do enjoy a good debate, this has been beaten beyond death.
I appreciate all the effort Polyphony put into GT5. Sure, I wish they focused more on quality than quantity.
But I still consider it a win for me because after two years I still play and enjoy it.
 
XXI
Many things in this world are lacking.
McDonalds won't provide you nutrition, Obama can't fix the economy, the aliens aren't coming, and GT5 is, well what it is.

While I do enjoy a good debate, this has been beaten beyond death.
I appreciate all the effort Polyphony put into GT5. Sure, I wish they focused more on quality than quantity.
But I still consider it a win for me because after two years I still play and enjoy it.

Couldn't agree more.
 
^^ Me too. ^^
 
This game does get criticized too much. I understand why people do criticize it and everyone has a right to their own opinion, but I have to say that I wasn't too disappointed with this game when it came out.

I was oddly enough too happy enjoying what the game had in it such as the new tracks, new great cars added, and a few other things (special events, NASCAR racing, seasonal events). I was happy to finally drive a Lamborghini Murcielago SV on trial mountain and a Ferrari 458 Italia on grand valley speedway. I also like the dlc that did come out for this game(even the touring cars, mainly the r33 skyline TC, rx7, and impreza tc).

I guess I just focus too much on the positives since I still play this game. oh well, to me; it's another GT game to enjoy playing in my free time and it's my 2nd favorite GT game today (my 1st favorite is GT2).
 
XXI
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But I still consider it a win for me because after two years I still play and enjoy it.

The only negative thing about it for me is the complaining I hear from the people who are not in the Complaints Dept line-up, but running around screaming on the streets.

I had put it away for several months, having 'broken' the game, and so was in a position to pick it up, boot it in and play to my heart's content anytime - there was not much to beat or win anymore, and only sheer driving left to do, or any races I wished to engineer, or different cars to try out. I was involved with some other racing/driving simulations for several months, then having reached a point in those games where I has also reached a fair amount of completion, I returned to GT5 last week.

Well, I'm back to drooling. And enjoying myself. I'm such a baby of course in comparison to all the GT Gurus who say the game sucks.
 
Honestly, I still do not see what the problem is with criticism. There is nothing wrong pointing out flaws with a game, and if a significant amount of people point out a similar flaw, then that is one less thing for PD to do.

On the other hand, if you're talking about being offensive, then you would be right. As of now though, I would say much of the criticism is constructive.
 
1241Penguin
Honestly, I still do not see what the problem is with criticism. There is nothing wrong pointing out flaws with a game, and if a significant amount of people point out a similar flaw, then that is one less thing for PD to do.

On the other hand, if you're talking about being offensive, then you would be right. As of now though, I would say much of the criticism is constructive.

You're mostly correct. But not completely.
 
1241Penguin
Hmm... it would help if you explained why.

Simply because some people aren't constructive. They look for anything that's wrong in the game and stress it to make it seem like it ruins the game. I'm all for people with constructive criticism, which is what I've mostly seen fortunately. But this thread was directed at the few who just try to tear the game down, to try and have them realize that, while the game has tons of flaws, bugs, and inconsistencies, calling the game "a total letdown" or "the worst in the series" really isn't too helpful, it just is negative.
 
Simply because some people aren't constructive. They look for anything that's wrong in the game and stress it to make it seem like it ruins the game. I'm all for people with constructive criticism, which is what I've mostly seen fortunately. But this thread was directed at the few who just try to tear the game down, to try and have them realize that, while the game has tons of flaws, bugs, and inconsistencies, calling the game "a total letdown" or "the worst in the series" really isn't too helpful, it just is negative.
Which wouldn't be a problem if you hadn't tried to address the problems that the constructive people brought up. So basically, you (inadvertently) brought them into the argument as well.
 
1241Penguin
Which wouldn't be a problem if you hadn't tried to address the problems that the constructive people brought up. So basically, you (inadvertently) brought them into the argument as well.

Well I'm sorry, keep in mind that I just came to GTP, I'm not trying to anger anybody, I just had been hearing so much criticism, and I really just wanted to express my positive opinion on the game. I'm in no way trying to discourage those who criticize it constructively in hopes of the next game being better as a result.
 
Well I'm sorry, keep in mind that I just came to GTP, I'm not trying to anger anybody, I just had been hearing so much criticism, and I really just wanted to express my positive opinion on the game. I'm in no way trying to discourage those who criticize it constructively in hopes of the next game being better as a result.
Just a friendly heads up, it's been attempted before, and it wasn't as successful as they may have hoped for the same sort of reasons we are trying to present.
 
1241Penguin
Just a friendly heads up, it's been attempted before, and it wasn't as successful as they may have hoped for the same sort of reasons we are trying to present.

I'm not trying to do anything ridiculous like that, I just wanted a voice. I just felt like this game was getting too much hate.. I'm not trying to bring down those who criticize it, I just wanted to point out some good points in the game to those people.
 
This is an open forum where people can discuss anything they want as long as it is relevant and within the forum rules. These discussions are often about the member's opinions. An opinion is just that, an opinion. Opinions are only words and only have power if you choose to give them power. When you label these opinions as "hating" and "complaining" that in and of itself is negative. So basically your complaining about complaining which is ironic and negative.

I think we are in dangerous time when people are criticized for stating their opinions. Without critical opinions everything will end up being mediocre or worse. This may be acceptable to some but not to me. When I pick sides I will always be with the consumer and not the business. It's the only way to keep them honest.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
 
Smuttysy
Ummm, where to start!?
Seriously!? 16 bit Megadrive games!?

Haha I know right?
 
bs13
This is an open forum where people can discuss anything they want as long as it is relevant and within the forum rules. These discussions are often about the member's opinions. An opinion is just that, an opinion. Opinions are only words and only have power if you choose to give them power. When you label these opinions as "hating" and "complaining" that in and of itself is negative. So basically your complaining about complaining which is ironic and negative.

I think we are in dangerous time when people are criticized for stating their opinions. Without critical opinions everything will end up being mediocre or worse. This may be acceptable to some but not to me. When I pick sides I will always be with the consumer and not the business. It's the only way to keep them honest.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Sorry, I'm not following you..
 
Opinions are just words, but words have emotion. Labeling these emotions is not being negative, it's simply labeling them. People know that they're being negative when they go out and complain about a game which took years to make, while talking about almost nothing constructive.
 
Believe me, I'm as tired of criticism as you are (because most threads turned into a circle-jerk of why there's no dlc, PD sucks etc etc and because some people here act like Kaz killed their mother or something) BUT there is no use of pretending that the problems don't exist. And the first step in solving a problem is admitting it exists.

For me personally, GT5 is still great at some things - It's highly inconsistent visually, but under the right circumstances it looks insanely good. The car models (premiums) are incredible and detailed enough to be used in future games. The photomode is the best of any racing game I've seen (just look at the GTPlanet photomode section). Also PD absolutely NAILED the material shaders in this game - glass looks like glass, plastic looks like plastic etc. Some other racing games' shaders look laughable in comparison to GT5. We have online for the first time in the series. The physics need improvement but are still really good. For me those are the positives.

But on the other hand you have the sounds, standard cars, strange and ridiculous game design decisions, Japanese biased car list, duplicates to get to the 1000 car mark, bad AI etc. Some people enjoy GT5 despite those negatives but for some it ruined the game. For me, what bothers me the most is the fact that GT does a bad job at things that were already good in the series. No game in the series has been as plagued by graphical problems as GT5. No game in the series had as slow and clunky menus as GT5. The wheel system (rims) in GT4 was awesome and the best in the series, in GT5 it's really stupid and the worst in the series. Same goes for a lot of things. Then, you have the new stuff like 3D, data logger, head tracking and the course maker which are features mostly good on paper but far too limited to be actual usable features. Museum is cool but wrongly implemented, so most people don't care about it. The level and experience system is a joke, has no place in a simulation game and is here just to make people who like to fill experience bars in RPG games happy. The fact that you lose paint chips when you paint a car is just an unnecessary annoyance.

The standard cars have caused more trouble than just making the game uglier : Because of them the garage is separated, the dealerships are separated and make no sense, photomode is an annoyance on track because of them, etc, etc... And btw, they are literally copy-pasted from GT4 even though PD said they would be updated.

The problem here is not discussing GT's negatives it's the people who want to see the PD staff lose their jobs and insult Kaz personally because they didn't like the game. which is sad. Constructive criticism is welcome, and there are threads here that do exactly that. There is no use pretending everything is perfect. But then again, there are people who were not disappointed in GT5 at all and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think GT5 is a horrible game, but I do think it doesn't have the quality standard of a GT game. And that is why most people would consider it the worst in the series.
 
I'm not trying to do anything ridiculous like that, I just wanted a voice. I just felt like this game was getting too much hate.. I'm not trying to bring down those who criticize it, I just wanted to point out some good points in the game to those people.
There isn't a lot of "haters" compared to the constructive people, hence why I'm confused as to why you think GT5 is getting too much hate. If anything, I'd say GT5 is way overrated.
Opinions are just words, but words have emotion. Labeling these emotions is not being negative, it's simply labeling them. People know that they're being negative when they go out and complain about a game which took years to make, while talking about almost nothing constructive.
I don't follow. Are you trying to say that we should at least sympathize for PD because of all the hard work they've done? How about this, a martial arts student is told to practice a technique for a year. Unbeknownst to him, he had been doing the technique incorrectly each and every single time. Should his master still allow him to get onto the next level? I think not.
 
1241Penguin
I don't follow. Are you trying to say that we should at least sympathize for PD because of all the hard work they've done? How about this, a martial arts student is told to practice a technique for a year. Unbeknownst to him, he had been doing the technique incorrectly each and every single time. Should his master still allow him to get onto the next level? I think not.

That analogy is totally unrelated to the topic.
 
That analogy is totally unrelated to the topic.
Then I suppose that your reason behind why we should look at the positives is not out of sympathy. In that case, why can't be we looking at the negatives?

You have to understand, PD created a lot of hype for the game, which in turn caused a lot of disappointment when the game came out. A lot of features that were promised by PD didn't make it to GT5. Furthermore, things like Standard cars weren't announced until the last minute. I can totally see why people would be angry.
 
You have to understand, PD created a lot of hype for the game, which in turn caused a lot of disappointment when the game came out. A lot of features that were promised by PD didn't make it to GT5. Furthermore, things like Standard cars weren't announced until the last minute. I can totally see why people would be angry.

I agree about the hype, but to be honest we knew about standard cars six months before release.
 
I agree about the hype, but to be honest we knew about standard cars six months before release.
We barely knew about Standard cars other than the fact that such a thing even existed. Many of us only found out that they didn't have interior views when they got the game. They made very little effort to tell us more about Standard cars. Disappointment was inevitable.
 
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We barely knew about Standard cars other than the fact that such a thing even existed. Many of us only found out that they didn't have interior views when they got the game.

Sure, now that you put it that way. I agree. But you did say they were announced at the last minute, which isn't true so I just corrected you.
 
I think another factor some people are forgetting is that the majority of us gave up our hard earned money for this game. Kaz didn't give it to us for free out of the goodness of his heart. So we can say anything we want about GT5, regardless if some of us like the game or not.

I've seen people say GT5 is the best racing game on consoles or that the game is still fun after two years. As strongly as I disagree with that, I don't tell them they're being too easy on PD for having that opinion and that they need to be more aware of the flaws. They payed money they worked for to get this game, so if they want to think it's the best thing since sliced bread, they should be able to say so without being told they're being too nice.

It's only going too far when people get personal and say things like "Kaz ruined GT5 because he has his head far up his 🤬." Now that is unnecessary and blows toward him and PD help no one.
 
1241Penguin
Then I suppose that your reason behind why we should look at the positives is not out of sympathy. In that case, why can't be we looking at the negatives?

You have to understand, PD created a lot of hype for the game, which in turn caused a lot of disappointment when the game came out. A lot of features that were promised by PD didn't make it to GT5. Furthermore, things like Standard cars weren't announced until the last minute. I can totally see why people would be angry.

We should look at the negatives. My point is that some people are focusing too much on the problems with the game and forgetting about all the new features and such that have been implemented.
 
This topic already has numerous threads to its name, we don't need another.

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