Too much emphasis on fuel saving.

[Tillbeast]

Having watched a few S/S rated guys on their twitch channels all I ever notice is that all they do is fuel save. Rarely do I see them go for it and try to overtake. Not saying they can't but tactically it's better to sit behind in someone's slipstream and overtake them in the pits. Not sure how the S/S guys think about that but surely the races would be better if fuel was not an issue. Are the FIA and race C races too short/long? Tyres wearing out to soon? The new tyre model I have found restricts overtaking. What could be done to promote more overtaking in these top ranked races?

 

[Azerach]

Adjusting fuel fill rate (at pits) to the multiplier used in the race would get rid of the huge advantage you get while fuel saving.

 

[azrilnazli]

Having watched a few S/S rated guys on their twitch channels all I ever notice is that all they do is fuel save. Rarely do I see them go for it and try to overtake. Not saying they can't but tactically it's better to sit behind in someone's slipstream and overtake them in the pits. Not sure how the S/S guys think about that but surely the races would be better if fuel was not an issue. Are the FIA and race C races too short/long? Tyres wearing out to soon? The new tyre model I have found restricts overtaking. What could be done to promote more overtaking in these top ranked races?

Another thing is, how devastative a light contact would be.

 

[05XR8]

Having watched a few S/S rated guys on their twitch channels all I ever notice is that all they do is fuel save. Rarely do I see them go for it and try to overtake. Not saying they can't but tactically it's better to sit behind in someone's slipstream and overtake them in the pits. Not sure how the S/S guys think about that but surely the races would be better if fuel was not an issue. Are the FIA and race C races too short/long? Tyres wearing out to soon? The new tyre model I have found restricts overtaking. What could be done to promote more overtaking in these top ranked races?

Same questions get asked in real racing. Do they make a long lasting tyre or one that degrades? Do they add aero or take it away? Do they add driver aids or not? Implement a mandatory fuel drop? Add compulsory pit stops?

Should the Sport Races randomise the car choice, when players enter an event? Race B are races where fuel isn't a concern. In the 30lap Gr. 3 Campaign race, it's stressed that fuel setting and tyre choice determine the outcome.

I agree that hardly any top level series race at 10/10, for the duration of an event. Every bit is managed to conserve. However, in those perameters, it is 10/10 within that scale. Seems that's carried over to the nature of Sport Mode races. Go as fast as possible while still managing tyres and fuel.

 

[Azerach]

I agree that hardly any top level series race at 10/10, for the duration of an event. Every bit is managed to conserve. However, in those perameters, it is 10/10 within that scale. Seems that's carried over to the nature of Sport Mode races. Go as fast as possible while still managing tyres and fuel.

It's not 10/10 within scale when the fill rate is 1x while fuel consumption rate is 5x. With 5x more consumption you create much larger differences between driving styles and different engines. What would normally be a smaller difference is multiplied dramatically (5x) when that difference is filled at 1x.

This is what creates situations where you're able to gain 5 seconds or more in the pits.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

Due to the accelerated fuel consumption, saving fuel is far more important, especially as it isn't like power reduction is 'accelerated' along with the fuel consumption.

What they should do is have lower fuel tank limits for shorter races, and then reduce the fuel consumption acceleration rate, along with equalling out the fuel consumption rates throughout a class to make it a little bit more even, especially as some cars can save so much fuel while also not losing too much power.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

"Winning a race isn't about being the fastest; it's being the most efficient"

That statement is true in all but sprint-length racing series, and GTS is no exception. Fuel saving is the most efficient way to race, and jumping people on the pits would lose you no time compared to battling it out on the track. It's only logical that this would happen

Spoiler: But you know what?

I'm honestly tired of fuel saving all the time it's so boring. I want to race as flat out as I can (well, as flat out as I can while leaving room for error that is) without worrying about fuel lap after lap after lap. I want to go back to the simple early Test Season times- no fuel nor tires to manage. Just pure racing where winning is by actually being the fastest. Oh well, one can dream

 

[danardif1]

It's a race, whoever finds the fastest way of completing the laps allotted wins... if that means utilising tactics that help save fuel and make the biggest variable, the pitstop, shorter, well that's just fine. It's all part of a real driver's armoury, so why shouldn't it be the case in GT as well?

I've exceeded my expectations on pure pace in many Daily Races simply through being efficient on fuel and consistent. Others may be able to turn faster laps but if I jump them in the pitstop or sometimes attempt to even forego a pitstop entirely (some races earlier on this was possible, not so much now, the pace difference is often more than you lose in the pits) in order to beat them... who has done the better job?

 

[Sander 001]

I like the layer of strategy and the surprises which come with it.

 

[AUTISTICBOYX]

I think the slipstream is a bit too powerful and certain cars are way too lenient on fuel.

 

[danardif1]

I think the slipstream is a bit too powerful and certain cars are way too lenient on fuel.

But the player can still do something about that. Look at last week's 'Daily' Race at Le Mans... the R18 became the car to have for pace, but it wasn't the most efficient on fuel. I mostly used the Toyota TS050 and that was much better on fuel than the Audi, but was lacking a little in pace. Despite the pace deficit, I could beat those who weren't as quick with the Audi because I was then faster than them through my own skill and was using less fuel... I find that entirely fair. They could have gone quicker if they had the skill to do so and beat me, just as those who had the pace advantage would do.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

It's not 10/10 within scale when the fill rate is 1x while fuel consumption rate is 5x. With 5x more consumption you create much larger differences between driving styles and different engines. What would normally be a smaller difference is multiplied dramatically (5x) when that difference is filled at 1x.

This is what creates situations where you're able to gain 5 seconds or more in the pits.

Just in-case you didn't realise, the refill rate isn't a stagnate, permanent figure.
It can and does change.

The pitstop refill rate can be found at the bottom of the page in the "Race Details" section.
Currently for this weeks Race C it is set at 7litres/second. 👍

 

[Azerach]

Just in-case you didn't realise, the refill rate isn't a stagnate, permanent figure.
It can and does change.

The pitstop refill rate can be found at the bottom of the page in the "Race Details" section.
Currently for this weeks Race C it is set at 7litres/second. 👍

It's the same for every race on the calendar; gr4 (FIA), gr3, F1(FIA).

Fuel consumption however bounces between 3x - 6x.
Fill rate is a factor PD has completely overlooked.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Fuel saving plays way too much of a role here. You don't see real racers just stay behind each other in a long procession until last stint. Honestly this feels more like bicycle races than anything else. I didn't buy "Tour de France - Le jeu" so I'd be happy if that could change. Yes, there is a bit of fuel management in real life, but the goal is not to save 6 - 8 seconds in the pits, the goal is generally something like stretching your range on a fuel tank to do less pit stops.

 

[eAxis Patohm]

Fill rate changed in the past (from 10 ltr/per sec., to 8, to 7 now)

 

[Sven Jurgens]

But the player can still do something about that. Look at last week's 'Daily' Race at Le Mans... the R18 became the car to have for pace, but it wasn't the most efficient on fuel. I mostly used the Toyota TS050 and that was much better on fuel than the Audi, but was lacking a little in pace. Despite the pace deficit, I could beat those who weren't as quick with the Audi because I was then faster than them through my own skill and was using less fuel... I find that entirely fair. They could have gone quicker if they had the skill to do so and beat me, just as those who had the pace advantage would do.

And at the end of the week the no stoppers took over. Which is only possible thanks to the 35 to 40 sec pit stop on a 5 lap race. The no stoppers would start at the front, run 3:32 laps holding up traffic along the way and beat those that drive 3:24 laps with a pit stop in between. It's not really racing anymore if you simply become an obstacle for others to pass then jump everyone again in the pit. Do no stops happen in real racing?

With accelerated tire wear and fuel, tire change and fuel flow should be accelerated as well to compensate. That would even things out a bit and make a no stop a bit harder although pit lane length still plays a big factor. For example Panorama takes about 30 to 35 sec for a pit stop, Sarthe 35 to 40. That's a big impact on a 17 to 18 minute race.

And indeed that strong slip stream effect exaggerates it all. Especially on long straights I can dial the fuel map all the way down to 6 and stay on their bumper, works a treat on Tokyo. It does make racing less exciting when people just follow to pass in the pit.

 

[Tidgney]

I just look at the Kart race this season and how fun it was not to think about tyre wear and ESPECIALLY fuel saving. I could actually race, for fun and my word it was fun! Same in group 4 races because the PUG is terrible I don't think about fuel and the race is far more fun because I actually end up having an actual race with overtakes, trying to think about how I can get past on track rather than in the pits...

I miss the early test seasons, ALOT. If these races were endurace races I'd happily take fuel and tyre strategies on board with x1 multiplier. Sprint races with accelerated fuel/tyre just expands massively the strengths and weaknesses between cars and is impossible to balance. How can you balance x1 vs x5 vs x10 on either fuel or tyres?

 

[GT_Alex74]

Yeah, at x1 rates, the balance between cars change completely, and it allows for more different strategies. 2 hours endurances with x1 / x2 rates are a lot of fun in this game !

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Fill rate changed in the past (from 10 ltr/per sec., to 8, to 7 now)

I'm not that interested in it, so I didn't write it down nor took a screenshot.
And my memory may not be the best, but I think last weeks Race C refill rate was 6litres/sec.

And at the end of the week the no stoppers took over. Which is only possible thanks to the 35 to 40 sec pit stop on a 5 lap race. The no stoppers would start at the front, run 3:32 laps holding up traffic along the way and beat those that drive 3:24 laps with a pit stop in between. It's not really racing anymore if you simply become an obstacle for others to pass then jump everyone again in the pit. Do no stops happen in real racing?

With accelerated tire wear and fuel, tire change and fuel flow should be accelerated as well to compensate. That would even things out a bit and make a no stop a bit harder although pit lane length still plays a big factor. For example Panorama takes about 30 to 35 sec for a pit stop, Sarthe 35 to 40. That's a big impact on a 17 to 18 minute race.

And indeed that strong slip stream effect exaggerates it all. Especially on long straights I can dial the fuel map all the way down to 6 and stay on their bumper, works a treat on Tokyo. It does make racing less exciting when people just follow to pass in the pit.

Oddly, not everyone has the same race experience.
I was racing in A+ and A rooms.
I ended up driving the 908 and no-stopping.
I started mid pack, where my 908 qualy time positioned me.(3:21)
I don't think the difference between my race pace and my qualy time was any different to the race vs qualy time of other drivers around me.
And I had some awesome, close finish races.

I guess I could have joined the rest of the grid and driven a R18 and just sprinted for 5 laps.
But that sounds pretty boring to me.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I just look at the Kart race this season and how fun it was not to think about tyre wear and ESPECIALLY fuel saving. I could actually race, for fun and my word it was fun! Same in group 4 races because the PUG is terrible I don't think about fuel and the race is far more fun because I actually end up having an actual race with overtakes, trying to think about how I can get past on track rather than in the pits...

I miss the early test seasons, ALOT. If these races were endurace races I'd happily take fuel and tyre strategies on board with x1 multiplier. Sprint races with accelerated fuel/tyre just expands massively the strengths and weaknesses between cars and is impossible to balance. How can you balance x1 vs x5 vs x10 on either fuel or tyres?

The tires are indeed another thing. Ferrari Italia fun to drive yet the tires wear so quickly it's very inconsistent and you have to adjust lap after lap. The GTR LM Nismo last week was almost impossible to maintain speed on the 3rd lap on Sarthe, while plenty other cars didn't need a tire change at all. It's not really strategy, it's blocking certain cars from being an option at all.

I'm not that interested in it, so I didn't write it down nor took a screenshot.
And my memory may not be the best, but I think last weeks Race C refill rate was 6litres/sec.

Oddly, not everyone has the same race experience.
I was racing in A+ and A rooms.
I ended up driving the 908 and no-stopping.
I started mid pack, where my 908 qualy time positioned me.(3:21)
I don't think the difference between my race pace and my qualy time was any different to the race vs qualy time of other drivers around me.
And I had some awesome, close finish races.

I guess I could have joined the rest of the grid and driven a R18 and just sprinted for 5 laps.
But that sounds pretty boring to me.

Close finishes with other no stoppers? That's the only possibility if your race pace is not any different than other drivers since you make up half a minute by not stopping.

In the weekend I had no stoppers that I could get withing 2 seconds off at the finish while they were 15 sec in front of me when I got out of the pit. There was also a no stopper that always started pole and managed to hang on to the front while slip streaming and over taking again at strategic points to hold up traffic through the Porsche curves. He didn't even need to no stop yet I guess he found it fun to make a statement and finish 30 sec ahead of everyone else.

No stoppers can be a hazard as well, especially on mount panorama. Holding up traffic over the mountain often causes incidents from less patient drivers behind me. If I suspect a no stop in front of me I'll take more risk for an early over take as I don't want to get rammed off from behind for not bumping the no stop out of the way half a lap in. Normally I like to hold off on passing until the dust settles after the first few corners. On Panorama that's too late with a no stop in front.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

I like strategy in races. Without it would be dull.

 

[Lazybike]

I have no interest in finding out who can short shift the best...racing on worn tyres is fun though.

 

[golfer07840]

Yeah, at x1 rates, the balance between cars change completely, and it allows for more different strategies. 2 hours endurances with x1 / x2 rates are a lot of fun in this game !

And there, IMO is the real issue. People want realistic fuel strategies. Not possible in these 15 min races.

You (I think?) had mentioned the Audi R18 earlier. That car averaged about 6.5 miles to the gallon. Basically, it could go 150 miles on 1 tank.

NONE of these Daily...er... weekly races are that long.

 

[cleanLX]

I've not watched, so I'm going off what you say here...

Having watched a few S/S rated guys on their twitch channels all I ever notice is that all they do is fuel save. Rarely do I see them go for it and try to overtake. Not saying they can't but tactically it's better to sit behind in someone's slipstream and overtake them in the pits.

See, now that's the thing... folks are comparing this to real life, but, in real life road course racing, no one sits and slips streams lap after... if they have the pace, they go... sure NASCAR play this game, but it has more to do with track position/team mates/drafting partners than it does actual saving fuel, and, even when this does take place, when the lead cars come in for fuel the entire field does... as the fresh tires are going to allow the leaders to run away...
In game, fuel is very exaggerated, and slipstream is far too strong, then, you have cars that can run at race pace short shifting.
I believe races are too short to be implementing fuel/tires at all... and the only way to force the issue is to make consumption so unrealistic that the strategies used follow suit... unrealistic.
Races should be long enough that a pit stop is a requirement.
Run hard at the start, punish the tires, pit early and conserve tires/fuel...
Conserve tires/fuel, pit late and run light on fresh tires...
Run predetermined steady pace, pit mid race and stay balanced...
That would present strategy...
Pit or don't... that's not strategy, that's playing the odds... 50/50, flip of the coin, yes or no... it's not strategy... not in my opinion.

Again, races are far too short to implement pit stop anyways, so, it's frigged from go.

 

[Lazybike]

10 lap weekly A with 1x tyre and 1x fuel would be an interesting prospect..

 

[T_revisio]

I agree that fuel saving has become way too important. It stops proper wheel to wheel racing happening, which for me is what racing is. It also decides which cars are competitive. This game is supposed to be fun. If I try to race (have fun) during the first stint, it feels like the wrong / naughty thing to do and annoys other drivers, who just want to save fuel and don’t like this crazy other driver wanting to actually race with them. Is that really what kaz / pd wanted ?! I can easily in real life save fuel in my commute, but I cannot legally race. I would never knowingly buy a game simulating fuel saving, but it looks like I have, when I thought that I bought a racing game.

 

[Veinz]

Lower the consumption rate or let us choose our fuel loads for the race.

 

[azrilnazli]

There's unexpected INDY500 winner using fuel saving technique, 2016 I think and there's an epic battle at Bathurst 12H , also include fuel saving

 

[Veinz]

Rossi didn’t win by short shfting in someones slipstream though.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Close finishes with other no stoppers? That's the only possibility if your race pace is not any different than other drivers since you make up half a minute by not stopping.

In the weekend I had no stoppers that I could get withing 2 seconds off at the finish while they were 15 sec in front of me when I got out of the pit. There was also a no stopper that always started pole and managed to hang on to the front while slip streaming and over taking again at strategic points to hold up traffic through the Porsche curves. He didn't even need to no stop yet I guess he found it fun to make a statement and finish 30 sec ahead of everyone else.

No stoppers can be a hazard as well, especially on mount panorama. Holding up traffic over the mountain often causes incidents from less patient drivers behind me. If I suspect a no stop in front of me I'll take more risk for an early over take as I don't want to get rammed off from behind for not bumping the no stop out of the way half a lap in. Normally I like to hold off on passing until the dust settles after the first few corners. On Panorama that's too late with a no stop in front.

Ummm, No.
With R18 pilots who were all around me.

And it seems you've misunderstood me.
I said "the difference between my race pace and my qualy time".
Not that my race pace was the same as the poll sitters.
And their race pace drop-off was comparitively similar to mine.

The poll sitters had qualy times of 3:17 and 18.
They also had the luxury of starting on the straight, where as us mid-fielders started in horrible positions in amongst the final chicanes.
I was also always overtaken by 2, sometimes 3, R18's before the first braking point because of the ludicrous acceleration they had compared to the 908.
(Perhaps I should start a thread complaining about that.)
So the leaders were well gone by turn 2.

If I was within 10 seconds of the leader after lap 3 when they pitted I would probably win.
15 seconds it would be close.
20 seconds and they would run me down.

So yes, I had some very close finishes no-stopping against guys who 1 stopped.
And I didn't feel the urge to block.
Shocking I know.