Top Gear's Top Hot Hatches

[Dave A]

I've sat in one, they arn't metal.

 

[Poverty]

I've sat in one, they arn't metal.

ive sat in one too and it sure aint plastic.

 

[Tornado]

If the R32 is better than the S3 why did audi bother making the S3 if they already have their own version of the R32, and why is the S3 selling like hotcakes, if its not worth the premium?

I don't know. Why did Audi think the A2 was a good idea?

Also audi have developed a 270/280hp 3.2 v6 anyway which is better on fuel than the current 3.2 v6 so they could have just used that, but they deemed the 2.0t to be a much better choice.

Oh really? Because the article I currently have tabbed in the background says that Audi used the 2.0 specifically because the 3.6 VR6 was too heavy. I'd imagine that if Audi had a super 3.2L this wouldn't be a problem. Especially because I have heard that many view the 2.0L to be a very poor choice of engine for the car for refinement, especially when compared to the 3.2L.

I took my figures straight off the HPA website. For 400hp out of the 3.2 vr6 it will cost 12 grand.

[Question for Anyone]How much more did the old Audi RS4 cost over the normal Audi S4. I'm sure it will be more than 6000 pounds, but I'm curious.

For £500 you will get an extra 50hp out of the 2.0T. I dont think theres a single NA car that can boast similier power increase from a remap.

Easily.
So, the best new hot hatch sold on the market today is the L98 Chevrolet Camaro.

 

[Poverty]

Oh really? Because the article I currently have tabbed in the background says that Audi used the 2.0 specifically because the 3.6 VR6 was too heavy. I'd imagine that if Audi had a super 3.2L this wouldn't be a problem. Especially because I have heard that many view the 2.0L to be a very poor choice of engine for the car for refinement, especially when compared to the 3.2L.

The sole reason why audi didnt use the 3.2 is because it was deemed too heavy, as audi's main aim with the S3 was to improve dynamics, which they achieved with the 2.0T.

Audi do test more than one motor for their sporting models before they decide.

 

[Tornado]

The sole reason why audi didnt use the 3.2 is because it was deemed too heavy, as audi's main aim with the S3 was to improve dynamics, which they achieved with the 2.0T.

Incorrect.
The weight Audi saved with the 2.0L engine (20kg) is marginal at best, and moving the battery to the trunk would undoubtably have nearly balanced out any dynamics issues introduced in relation; and a large number of things could be done to cancel out such a small amount of weight. The 3.6L engine, however, is iron in construction, forcing them to not use it despite its much higher horsepower over both the 3.2 and 2.0T. If the 3.6 was made of the same material as the 3.2, they would have used that in a heartbeat, as it would have been both easier to get power out of then the 3.2 and far more refined than the 2.0T.

 

[YSSMAN]

Easily.
So, the best new hot hatch sold on the market today is the L98 Chevrolet Camaro.

Absolutely classic, awesome one. I think the same rule could be applied to any V8-powered Camaro/Firebird or Mustang of the last 20 years...

 

[Poverty]

Incorrect.
The weight Audi saved with the 2.0L engine (20kg) is marginal at best, and moving the battery to the trunk would undoubtably have nearly balanced out any dynamics issues introduced in relation; and a large number of things could be done to cancel out such a small amount of weight. The 3.6L engine, however, is iron in construction, forcing them to not use it despite its much higher horsepower over both the 3.2 and 2.0T. If the 3.6 was made of the same material as the 3.2, they would have used that in a heartbeat, as it would have been both easier to get power out of then the 3.2 and far more refined than the 2.0T.

S cars have a tradition of being turbo.
The S3 battery is in the trunk I think (might have been a different car)
Audi has a 3.2 VR6 motor developing 270hp, and has been shown to the public with 300hp.
The audi boss said that the sole reason why they used the 2.0T is because of dynamics. Im sure the audi engineers must know things me and you dont.

 

[G.T]

ive sat in one too and it sure aint plastic.

Plastics these days are very good at trying not to look and feel plastic. Metallic paint it may have been - and yes, it's even cool to touch.

Hell, I doubt car interiors priced much higher contain metal like that.

 

[Tornado]

S cars have a tradition of being turbo.

Explain the S4, S6 and S8 then.

Audi has a 3.2 VR6 motor developing 270hp, and has been shown to the public with 300hp.

So, what cars have they put it in? I guarantee that if Audi actually had a production 3.2L V6 that put out more BHP than the 2.0T does in

The audi boss said that the sole reason why they used the 2.0T is because of dynamics.

And I just said why that was wrong. I did not say that the 3.2L would have been better off in the engine bay, because it is already an option on the base Audi A3. The dynamics would still be marginally better, perhaps, but again: Marginally.

Im sure the audi engineers must know things me and you dont.

And I'm not disagreeing with them. In fact, I said that the 3.6L would pretty much ruin the car because of its weight, and I'm well aware that it would cost an arm and a leg to redo the engine in aluminum for the S3 alone. However, if the 3.6L was aluminum it would weigh less than the 3.2L, which would actually improve dynamics perhaps to the level of the 2.0T. By that same token, it would have more horespower and be more refined.

I think the same rule could be applied to any V8-powered Camaro/Firebird or Mustang of the last 20 years...

Well, maybe not an aluminum small block Camaro or modular-engined Mustang.

 

[Poverty]

How can I make these pics smaller so I can make use of the

?
http://www.worsy.co.uk/scratch/s3interior.jpg

http://www.worsy.co.uk/scratch/s3wheel.jpg

 

[Famine]

How can I make these pics smaller so I can make use of the

?
http://www.worsy.co.uk/scratch/s3interior.jpg

http://www.worsy.co.uk/scratch/s3wheel.jpg

Mmm. Leather and plastic. Note that the slivery plastic in front of the aluminium door handle inside Steve's S3 has become black plastic in this one.

 

[Dave A]

Like I said, the S3 has a nicer steering wheel than R32. The rest of it's pretty much on a par quality wise. But the steering wheel is not worth the price difference. Actually, knowing I can get a brand new 5 door R32 for less than 23k, I'd actually take the R32 over an S3. The S3 still appeals to me personally more, but not for the price over the R32.

 

[G.T]

Mmm. Leather and plastic. Note that the slivery plastic in front of the aluminium door handle inside Steve's S3 has become black plastic in this one.

Indeed.

Now, a large high-resolution image of the R32:

http://seriouswheels.com/pics-2006/2006-Volkswagen-R32-Interior-1600x1200.jpg

Apart from the odd bits of chrome missing here and there, it's pretty much the same. And those missing parts are not going to make me prefer the S3 anymore at all.

 

[Tornado]

I would totally pay $6,000 extra for the round air vents that the Audi so unashamedly holds over the R32.

Now, a large high-resolution image of the R32:

Oh, I get it! The S3 costs 3000 pounds more because they move the steering wheel over to the right! How novel.

 

[Poverty]

sexy

more owners interior shots.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4546&d=1168217760
http://www.rs6.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4547&d=1168217855

 

[Dave A]

And? Your not convincing people the S3 has a better interior than the R32 when it's clearly pretty much on par by posting as many pictures of the interior as you can find.

 

[ND4SPD]

This is how we do it in the USA:

HPA Motorsports

A couple grand here and there can get you more than 500 BHP if you desire. Volkswagen has been going to these guys for a while now, particularly with their R-Line concepts. Most of their specialty lies with the 3.2L VR6 in its various forms, but they are supposed to be working on a new line for the 2.0T, and still continue to do plenty of work with the old 1.8T if you so desire.

...The big problem is that we don't yet have the MKV R32 in America, so we aren't going to "know" everything yet, but they should be arriving shortly. Only 5000 models on the first run, and we'll have to see if VW plans on making it a yearly allotment or not...

Actually, its more like how we do it here in Canada. HPA is a canadian company.

 

[Poverty]

And? Your not convincing people the S3 has a better interior than the R32 when it's clearly pretty much on par by posting as many pictures of the interior as you can find.

Find me a owners interior shot of the R32 that looks as good as the S3.

Atleast you guys have acknowledged the sporting prowess that the new S3 has over its competitiors.

 

[daan]

A bloke down the pub told me his Skoda Fabia has a better dash than all of them.

 

[Dave A]

Poverty, your a lost cause. I don't know what to say anymore that wouldn't be in violation of the AUP. You manage to somehow, make Audi fanboys look like Audi haters, your that bad. just look at the two interiors, they're almost the same, you have eyes, look at them. I've sat in them, I know they are practically the same inside, I said they were many posts ago, the pictures already posted show that. You need to take a good long look at yourself, and see what your like because your not funny or clever, you make yourself look the opposite infact.

And daan, tell me about them Fabias. Audi S8 eat your heart out.

 

[skip0110]

oh really? prove it, cause last i knew plastic isnt cold to the touch.

When you lay down chrome on plastic, you have to etch it, then you copper plate it, then you nickel plate it. Then on goes the chrome. When you touch it, the copper and nickel plating pulls the heat out of your hand very quickly.

So chrome-plated plastic is cold to the touch.

Easily.
So, the best new hot hatch sold on the market today is the L98 Chevrolet Camaro.

Hah, comedy gold.

 

[Scaff]

He is what Autocar had to say in regard to the S3 interior (keeping in mind that they loved the car overall).

Audi has become something of a master of car interiors over the last 10 years, especially quick car interiors. In light of this, the S3's cabin seems ever so slightly disapointing.

But the dashboard itself looks and feels no different from that of the regular A3. Perhaps the odd bit of carbon or aluminium would help to lift the S3's look and distinguish it from the interiors of lesser A3's

Ergonomically hard to fault, and the instruments look good too. the dashboard could be a little funkier to look at, though.

Apart from the slightly plain interior, quality is hard to fault, especially beside other hothatch rivals

Here's a nice 360 degree interior view of the S3
http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/new_cars/a3/S3/interior_view/360_interior_view.html

And from the Audi spec list

'S' Sports suspension
'S' body styling
2 chrome oval-shaped exhaust pipes
225/40 R18 Y tyres
6-speed manual transmission with reduced shift travel
7.5J x 18 ‘S’ design alloy wheels
Aluminium-look door mirror housings
Aluminium-look pedals
Automatic headlight-range adjustment
Belt monitoring sensors in belt catch for driver and front passenger
Black Silk Nappa leather embossed upholstery
Black brake callipers with S3 emblem
Brushed aluminium inlays
Cigarette lighter and ashtray in the centre console
Concert III single front-loading CD player with MP3 file compatability
Crash-active head restraints for front seats
Dampered grab handles on all doors
Daytime running lights
Dipping breakaway inside rear view mirror
Driver and passenger seat-height manually adjustable
Driver, passenger and side airbags
Easy-entry seats (A3 only)
Electric front windows
Front Sports seats
Front and rear active speakers
Front passenger airbag deactivation
Head restraints, adjustable for all 5 seats
Heat-insulating glass, tinted green
Heated rear screen with time switch and integrated aerial
ISOFIX child-seat preparation
Leather gearshift knob and hand brake handle
Leather-covered 3-spoke Sports steering wheel, with ‘S’ emblem
Remote-control central locking
Removable luggage cover
Roof spoiler
S3 badge at rear
Seatbelts, 3-point automatic on all seats
Servotronic - speed-related variable steering assistance
Sideguard, side head airbag system
Split-folding rear seat
Standard headlining
Thatcham category 1 alarm and immobiliser
Tool kit and car jack
Xenon Plus headlights
quattro four wheel drive
without cup holder

So the inlay trim is aluminium, but the pedals and wing mirrors are aluminium-look. Which is no biggie as all M-Sport trim BMWs get aluminium trim inlays, just a bit more of it.

Now that's a decent amount of aluminium trim (OK I am bias here - that is mine), but compare it to the new S3, which actually has slightly less metal trim that the pictures Poverty has been posting.

Audi interior shots from Autocar and are the new car.




Regards

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm in agreement here with L4S. The best thing about all of this is that at one point there were many of us who were general VAG fans who would sing the praises of Audi when necessary. But with the latest resolutions made by some of our fellow members, even the slightest criticism of the beloved four-rings automatically creates a firestorm of hatred and strong opinions that although often backed up with some valid information, never moves anyone in any serious direction.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that it is rather silly to be making this big of a deal about these two cars. As VAG fans, there is supposed to be some kind of mutual repsect between the brands, and yet we find absolutely none of it on these forums? Why, pray tell, can a VW not be as-good-as an Audi? Why do our preferences blind us so much?

...I know that I'm often referred to as the GM guy, but I don't go gallivanting about screaming at the guy who tells me that the Buick Lucerne is better than the Cadillac DTS, just because I may believe the Cadillac is better because of the brand (ps, Buick is better). Its just plain silly.

I'm not going to give up that the R32 is the better option, I however care to insert the idea that we begin to take others opinions as opinions and engage in debate in disagreements, that said, we should not be taking all of this so personally.