Total Home Television...

[Famine]

To be honest, I don't know which of two forums this belongs best in, but it's more of an IT quandry than anything else, so here goes.


I'd like to have a complete home TV system stored on a single PC, outputting to screens around the house (preferably wired rather than wireless). An inbound television signal is not necessary (I'd like to sever any dependancy on broadcast TV media and put two fingers up at the TV Licence).

My requirements are:

• Central storage for downloaded/ripped (legally) video AND audio media.
• Outputs to multiple screens, capable of displaying different media on each simultaneously.
• Nothing for end-user beyond screen and remote control (for neatness and to minimise upgrade costs - only the main box needs to upgrade).
• Admin control over individual screens ("parental control" if you will).
• Preferably wired not wireless

I'd prefer not to have a client-side PC in every room with a screen. As additional preferences I'd also quite like be able to move media to smaller, portable devices for road trips and connect up to external surveillance, but these are not necessarily necessary.


So, help me out GTPlanet. What the smeg do I need to do this - and more importantly, if you were doing the same, what would you use? I'm aware it may cost a sum of money not known for being inconsequential, but I figure it'll be worth it.

Also, please keep abbreviations and acronyms to a bare minimum and expand/explain upon technologies and methods. I won't necessarily understand what a FanSpleen X7621 with BUM capability is, nor what it does. I am a novice in these waters, and you are my water wings.

 

[daan]

You won't need BUM capability. I've used it and it's over-rated.

 

[Scaff]

On the TV licence side of thing you will want to check into that as I believe having a feed is not the issue. Rather the issue is if the screen is capable of accepting a feed. Its been a while since I last looked into this, but it always used to be the case that if you owned a TV that had a tuner you needed a licence.

Scaff

 

[DQuaN]

It is very possible to have multiple video outputs from a machine, displaying multiple pictures. But it would have to be controlled centrally. I also don't see how you could have separate sound outputs for each picture.

This is certainly a big technical job, and i'm stumped as to how you are going to do it! I will certainly watch with interest though.

 

[wfooshee]

Media servers, like the Hauppage MediaMVP, but there's no HiDef with that device. Still, it's a networked device that connects to a service running on the PC with the media, has remote control. Has audio L/R, Composite or S-video for picture. No digital 5.1 or HD.
Requires MPEG or WMV video, MP3 audio, cannot recall if it plays WMA sound.

Each remote TV needs a device, but several can attach to the same PC over the network. That's my understanding, not my experience, though, as I only have one.

PC requirement is not severe at all. My media PC is a 650-MHz P-III !

I cannot speak for differences between your program source and mine (I have a tuner card). They have a PAL version of the device, so your being a foreigner and all shouldn't make it impossible to use.

 

[Famine]

On the TV licence side of thing you will want to check into that as I believe having a feed is not the issue. Rather the issue is if the screen is capable of accepting a feed. Its been a while since I last looked into this, but it always used to be the case that if you owned a TV that had a tuner you needed a licence.

Scaff

Legally, it's if you have the capability of receiving a broadcast signal. If I remove any external aerials I won't have that capability.

Media servers, like the Hauppage MediaMVP, but there's no HiDef with that device. Still, it's a networked device that connects to a service running on the PC with the media, has remote control. Has audio L/R, Composite or S-video for picture. No digital 5.1 or HD.
Requires MPEG or WMV video, MP3 audio, cannot recall if it plays WMA sound.

Each remote TV needs a device, but several can attach to the same PC over the network. That's my understanding, not my experience, though, as I only have one.

PC requirement is not severe at all. My media PC is a 650-MHz P-III !

I cannot speak for differences between your program source and mine (I have a tuner card). They have a PAL version of the device, so your being a foreigner and all shouldn't make it impossible to use.

That would require network points throughout the house, or a wireless LAN with a PC at each endpoint though, right?

 

[TB]

It's really quite simple.

Purchase a PS3 for each television in the house and use a computer as a media server.

Duh.

Joking aside, have fun getting this beauty up a running. I don't see myself doing this anytime soon, but I'm still interested nonetheless.

 

[wfooshee]

That would require network points throughout the house, or a wireless LAN with a PC at each endpoint though, right?

Not a PC at each endpoint, but the MediaMVP device. Otherwise correct, an Ethernet network through the house.

The MediaMVP does have a wireless version.

 

[Famine]

Not a PC at each endpoint, but the MediaMVP device. Otherwise correct, an Ethernet network through the house.

The MediaMVP does have a wireless version.

The ideal endpoint is just a TV - so there's only the power and the TV-in lead behind the TV. Throw in another device and you've now got another power cable and another signal cable.

 

[opendriver]

I was going to say use a sling box, but you said wired connection.


Just out of curiosity, How many TV's is this signal going to be sent to?

 

[Danoff]

Famine,

I've been wanting to do something like this also, but I also have no idea how to do it, and I think it's possible that it can't be done.

Right now I have a computer hooked up to the living room TV, and I use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to operate it from the couch. I think if you have windows media edition you can buy special remotes that work with it so that you can avoid the need for a mouse or keyboard.

If you had multiple output video cards capable of sending independent high definition signals though an extra extra long video cable (that I don't think exists), you could hook up monitors around the house. But you'd also have to somehow hook up infra red receivers at each television that the computer would somehow know controls a particular video output.

If you can figure it out, put the blueprint up so that I can use it.

 

[Famine]

I was going to say use a sling box, but you said wired connection.

Just out of curiosity, How many TV's is this signal going to be sent to?

At least five. Not including the PC monitor, obviously.

And it needs to be five separate signals, so that all the TVs can watch different video at the same time.

 

[wfooshee]

The ideal endpoint is just a TV - so there's only the power and the TV-in lead behind the TV. Throw in another device and you've now got another power cable and another signal cable.

I don't know what equipment would be able to do this with just the TV at the endpoints. A media server box like the MediaMVP is smaller than most external USB hard drives, and yes, it requires power. Comes with its own remote, and receives and processes commands from the remote internally, then sends the request down the Ethernet wire to the server. It uses some combination of web service and xml to do this. It puts its menus on the screen, and then plays the selected media onto the screen, streaming from the PC over Ethernet.

Yes, it needs a power source, so you have to plug in the device and a TV, but the ONLY distribution is the Ethernet network, and if you do it wirelessly, even that's covered. You don't run TV cable or A/V cables, just CAT5.

Going over your bullets in your first post, and comparing them to my usage experience:

Central storage: Check. The PC, wherever it is, contains all the media. The device can access Internet radio as well.

Multiple screens, different media on each: Check, with a MediaMVP device at each screen. They are independant of each other, each using the service on the PC to get media files. According to their web site, you can use 24 wired or 4 wireless devices on the same network.

Nothing for end-user beyond screen and remote control: Check, sort of. The user has menus on the device that are navigated with the remote control, and the remote can pause or stop playback. It can even remember the location of an interrupted program. As for upgrades, the devices boot from the PC service when powered on by the remote, which takes about 15 to 30 seconds, so the software on the PC is the software on the media server. For a version upgrade, you actually remove power from the plug, and it does a hard boot for deeper ROM-type code. In other words, the user had nothing to log in to, nothing to manipulate with a mouse or keyboard.

Admin (parental) control: Check, I think. IIRC, the devices have a password associated with them in the service by which one would be able to control file access. In other words, the device logs in to the service, and that login name could control what folders or even files are available, assuming file-level user rights exist on the PC (turn off "simple file sharing") and have been defined. This is a bit of a question mark, though, again I'm not sure about the behavior of multiple media boxes, and I don't see this addressed on their site.

Preferably wired, not wireless: Check, with some caveats. I don't know if that's a security issue, you don't want outside access or you don't want to "broadcast" TV to the outside environment. Since the signal is streaming over Ethernet, whatever Ethernet security is in place will be working for you. If it's wired CAT5, nothing gets in or out. If it's WiFi networking, then the WEP key is how you lock it. (I don't know if the wireless supports better than WEP, i.e. WPA.) An outsider would have nothing to receive with just a TV and antenna, as that's not how it's distributed in your house.

I may seem biased toward this device, but I just can't think of anything else that serves video out the way you're asking. That doesn't mean it's not there, it just means it's outside my admittedly meager experience. But these are tiny boxes, a hundred bucks each for wired, and all you need is a PC and a network.

Another cool thing about these is that because they boot their shell from the PC service, anybody that wants to can write such a service. I've used 2 different systems besides the one that comes with it. My primary use of the device is as the link between my TV and the PC I use as a DVR (PC with tuner card.) I've used GB-PVR which supports the MediaMVP natively, and Snapstream's BeyondTV, which supports the MediaMVP through a SourceForge project. In both instances, the default menu shell is replaced by the application installed on the media PC through the service that supports the MediMVP.

Lastly, checking the Hauppauge web site, I find the media types supported. It plays Mpeg-1 and 2, divx (although divx playback is CPU-intensive on the server PC) and WMV. For audio, it plays MP3 and WMA, and reads playlists. It can also view jpg and gif images as stills and slideshows, while playing music.

 

[Famine]

It's a sound idea, but doesn't quite meet the remit. It's an excellent plan though if I can't get exactly what I want. And I don't want an ethernet port in every room, to avoid "people" plugging other PC equipment into them. Ideally I'd just like a composite/L/R port in each room (or "better" for the more important viewing pleasure areas).

To help visualise what I want, I've drawn a helpful diagram:

 

[UnoMOTO]

This is a job for Digital Nitrate!

Why o why have you gone?

 

[DustDriver]

The best solution is the one wfooshee suggested.

If you really don't want to have ethernet ports, the only other solution is to have a system similar to digital tv, but those decoders are a bit bigger than the device in wfooshee's solution.
If you really don't want people to use the ethernet ports, simply don't use such a port and attach the cable directly into the device and secure if with loctite

Placing the device in the wall would be another solution, but it needs air to cool and you still need to have a place to put the power adapter in. (maybe have a secondary power gird with direct current)

 

[Robin]

This is a job for Digital Nitrate!

Why o why have you gone?

Yeah was just gonna say he would def be the man for this job! Pity...

How on earth are you going to get TV if your not going to pay a license, I don't get it.... even if you get it over the net you need a license because it was the same in hall in uni...

Robin

 

[Eric.]

Could ethernet over power (not sure if that's the appropriate namee) be a viable option? I remember that DirecTV detailed a way to stream media over your home's power grid.

There is a .pdf download on this page that has the instructions to do that with their equipment, just substitute the Hauppage device instead.

I guess this still leaves the problem with there being an internet port.

 

[Famine]

I'm not sure what that is...

Yeah was just gonna say he would def be the man for this job! Pity...

How on earth are you going to get TV if your not going to pay a license, I don't get it.... even if you get it over the net you need a license because it was the same in hall in uni...

Robin

You only "need" a licence if you have the capability to receive broadcast transmissions. Since I will have no aerial/dish to receive them and none of my TVs have an integrated receiver I will not require a licence.

At no point will any TV in the house be capable of showing images being broadcast by any broadcaster at the same moment as it is being broadcast.


I fundamentally object to the licence fee anyway, and there is only one legal way to have televisions but no licence.


Edit: A friend has come up with a suggestion. He's pointed out that hotels have such a distributed video system, often with a central store of data (like a Hotel TV channel, or pay-on-demand videos [usually "adult"]) and admin control. Anyone know anything about these systems?

 

[DQuaN]

I'm not sure what that is...

Ethernet over the power lines, I have it at home.

You simply have a plug that goes into a standard wall socket, that has an ethernet port on it. You then plug another one of these adapters into a socket anywhere in your house, and voila! It's networked.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

You will still need a TV licence. This reared its head during the last soccer world cup, where employers were streaming signals into offices so that employees would remain on-site. There's more here. It think that you would struggle to exempt yourself from the capability to watch as-live even without aerials/dishes.

You would also need to make sure that all your displays were simple panels without tuner facilities, which will quite severely limit your choice and increase your costs.

I can understand that you have a moral objection to the TV licence, but can you really cut the BBC out of your family's life completely? I think you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face, even if it is legally possible.

 

[Famine]

You will still need a TV licence.

Nope. No ability to receive broadcasts as they are broadcast = no requirement to have a licence.

"If you are watching TV at the same time as it is being broadcast in the UK you need to be covered by a valid licence."

It think that you would struggle to exempt yourself from the capability to watch as-live even without aerials/dishes.

You would also need to make sure that all your displays were simple panels without tuner facilities, which will quite severely limit your choice and increase your costs.

Already there. I just need the distributed video infrastructure in the house.

I can understand that you have a moral objection to the TV licence, but can you really cut the BBC out of your family's life completely? I think you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face, even if it is legally possible.

Why? The BBC is dreadful - and almost (but not quite) as impartial as Fox News. It has maybe three shows I like, and I show my support for those shows by buying the DVDs of them - which brings another issue to the fore... If I've already paid for the show with my Licence Fee, why should I pay again for the DVD? That's a discussion for a different thread though.

I'm not willing to steal DVDs, but I am willing to prevent their signals (and any other) from entering my house.

 

[Robin]

So put simply this setup is not for watching live TV, its for watching your own collection of content.... In that case you wont need a license although I don't see how anyone could go without TV

The ethernet over powerlines is a good idea, they are already selling belkin ones in Argos so all you would need to do is put one in each room. But then comes the tricky part!

Robin

 

[Famine]

So put simply this setup is not for watching live TV, its for watching your own collection of content...

Yes. Exactly like the picture says.

The ethernet over powerlines is a good idea, they are already selling belkin ones in Argos so all you would need to do is put one in each room. But then comes the tricky part!

It doesn't offer the controllability (so the 6 year old can watch anything on the PC, and at any time) and requires extra equipment at end-user point.

I'm now looking into the distributed video systems such as you get in hotels.

 

[Scaff]

.......but I am willing to prevent their signals (and any other) from entering my house.

Now you just sound like your sat in the corner with a special tin-foil hat on your head and coat hangers suspended from the ceiling. Damn those pesky alien abductions.

To help you make your very own one - http://www.stopabductions.com/

Scaff

 

[Famine]

Tinfoil hats magnify Government spy signals. Fact.

 

[Robin]

I think the whole Total Home TELEVISION bit in the thread title confused people!

hmmm, you could possibly do this setup by having an apple TV box in each room networked to a computer but then it would mean, as you said, having something at the users end... plus that would be damn expensive.

I would also love to know how hotels do it, must need some box for the remote to send signals to in the room though...

Robin

 

[Famine]

I think the whole Total Home TELEVISION bit in the thread title confused people!

It's a system for supplying video to the televisions covering the total of my home...

 

[Scaff]

Tinfoil hats magnify Government spy signals. Fact.

That's why you put the tin-foil one on the cat and then wear the special ones yourself, that will teach 'em.

Scaff

 

[wfooshee]

The hotel-type systems I've found by Googling seem to be satellite-based rather than local storage, and geared to movies specifically, where the hotel basically resells the movie to the end user, skims their cut and pays the service provider.

Thinking about how they work, though, I could see the pay-per-view model working for you. While no money actually changes hands, the system could budget time allowances and schedules, so the TV in this room gets a certain amount of time and stops, or simply doesn't work after, say, 11:00 PM, while your main theater room might be unlimited. It should also allow selection of allowable media per end device.

User at TV gets menu on channel 3 or whatever, uses remote to select programming from a menu. Higher-level sets need a passkey to keep little ones from sneaking to another set.

It just needs to use local storage rather than an outside provider for media.