Toyota Issues Ultimatum: Get Better or Get Out

[prisonermonkeys]

From GP Update:

Toyota gets two more years to prove itself in F1
03 January 2008


F1's big spender Toyota could pull out of Formula 1 in two years time unless the team can get themselves into a consistently competitive position over the next two years. Toyota's team principal admitted he has two more years to prove Toyota belongs in Formula One.

The team started twice from pole position and managed to finish in a podium position just six times in six seasons. With the team's annual budget close to US$500 million the management in Japan now demands results. "I have been given two more years," said Toyota's F1 team principal Tadashi Yamashina "So we will work and fight to make sure we prove ourselves in the 2008 season."

Toyota will present its new Formula 1 car next week (Thursday) to the media in Cologne.

I can't say this comes as a surprise; Toyota have been consistently disappointing ever since they began. They're been here five years and all they have are a handful of podiums and pole positions to show for it. I suppose that half the problem is that they insist on running the team by committee, and the other half is their their habit of signing drivers who are mediocre at best: Allan McNish, who failed to make a splash; Cristiano da Matta, who joined the ranks of successful IndayCar drivers who have failed in Formula One; Ralf Schumacher, the less said about him the better; and the curiously quick-quick-slow Jarno Trulli, who is probably Formula One's biggest anomaly.

Let's hope Timo Glock can do something for the team otherwise we won't be seeing them on the grid in 2010 ... but will that really be such a bad thing?

 

[Tornado]

Think of all the money they could have saved if they had thought of this 5 years ago.

 

[superberkut]

I'm actually somewhat glad to hear this. Maybe some action will occur after this statement was issued. For such a well-funded team, one would expect them to have a better showing. However, Ferrari and McLaren both have greater experience in racing cars.

Should this fail, I would actually miss them to an extent, but they could always focus on NASCAR, or even make a return to *gasp* Le Mans. Off-topic, but I would really like to see Toyota continue from where they left off with the now-famous GT-One.

 

[Tornado]

However, Ferrari and McLaren both have greater experience in racing cars.

Toyota finished behind Jaguar (of all teams) every year they were both in Formula 1, and were behind Red Bull in 2007. I think it has little to do with Formula One racing prestige so much as it has to do with flushing money away.
That being said, I want Toyota out so they can go pound on Audi in Le Mans.

 

[superberkut]

What I meant was that Ferrari then knew how to use their money efficiently from experience, while Toyota, as you said, hemorrhaged it at an exorbitantly fast rate.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

I'm suprised they have given it this long. Toyota don't generally take well to loosing, especially by such a margin.

 

[TopHat]

I thought this was about falling production quality. I guess this is more important.

 

[Omnis]

Watch their 2008 car look just like their 2003 car.

TOYODOR!

 

[Solid Lifters]

Think of all the money they could have saved if they had thought of this 5 years ago.

Ha-ha! I was going to say that! 👍

 

[SagarisGTB]

Id rather have a half-competitive Toyota in F1 then another moving chicane like Midland or Spyker.

But If Toyota would get back in Le Mans when they drop out, It would be worthwhile. Le Mans needs more factory efforts. But I doubt they would.

 

[Kylehnat]

Let's hope Timo Glock can do something for the team otherwise we won't be seeing them on the grid in 2010.

Timo Glock will do precisely squat. Let's just hope he doesn't take out his teammate at the start of the race .

 

[Blake]

I recall reading not long ago that Toyota were happy with their investment and that it didn’t matter whether they were winning or losing. IIRC they said that the association with F1 was strengthening their brand and their engineering reputation.

Firing Gascoyne in 2006 was very silly. Almost (but not quite) as bad as Honda firing Geoff Willis (at least they have righted that mistake now).

I think the fact that Williams schooled them this year and promises to do even better in 2008 has made them realise that more can be done with their engine and they’re missing something really significant with their chassis.

the curiously quick-quick-slow Jarno Trulli, who is probably Formula One's biggest anomaly.

Trulli rocks; he is generally pretty consistently fast. I think the fact that Ralf has wild pace swings track-to-track made Trulli look like he too was always on and off. But personally I think he is quite a talent and definitely deserves a better car than Toyota have offered him thus-far.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Trulli rocks; he is generally pretty consistently fast. I think the fact that Ralf has wild pace swings track-to-track made Trulli look like he too was always on and off. But personally I think he is quite a talent and definitely deserves a better car than Toyota have offered him thus-far.

Granted he's fast, but he only seems to be able to demonstrate his speed during practice and qualifying sessions. He's taken pole for Toyota befoe (I think), but he can't seem to translate it into results. Renault would have dne better to keep him instead of signing Fisichella; we might have seen something much different in Trulli's career.

 

[Blake]

Granted he's fast, but he only seems to be able to demonstrate his speed during practice and qualifying sessions. He's taken pole for Toyota befoe (I think), but he can't seem to translate it into results.

His only pole for Toyota was at Indianapolis in 2005 where Toyota sent him out on fumes because they knew they were withdrawing from the race and wanted the publicity.

Similarly when Ralf got pole in Japan in 2005, where he lead the race with searing pace until he pitted… on lap 12. He finished 8th.

Toyota have never had a car capable of real results. You can’t forget, either, that Toyota have had a very poor reliability record which has prevented them from getting a lot of decent results.

Renault would have dne better to keep him instead of signing Fisichella; we might have seen something much different in Trulli's career.

Indeed. In 2004 he did really well and until his mistake at the French GP he was the better of the two drivers at Renault having scored consistent results all season.

I find it strange how much his performance deteriorated from that point onwards. I know Briatore and he fell-out, and IIRC Trulli accused the team of favouring Alonso. Maybe he just lost motivation.

It’s too bad, he definitely has talent.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But Flav is like that; it's why I think he's the worst team boss in the sport. He has a tendency to pick favourites among the drivers and then backs them vehemently whist alienating the other driver just as much. Take Kovalainen's performance at Albert Park this year: sure, he made basic rookie mistakes, but the tongue-lashing Flavio gave him afterwards was completely un-called for. He did a similar thing with Button, favouring the then-unsigned Alonso over the Briton and then twisting arms until he got his way. In fact, I think Flavio does a worse job than Honda and Toyota when it comes to running a team. True, he gets results, but he turns the relationship between his drivers into a competition when they should be concentrating on the job at hand.

Timo Glock will do precisely squat. Let's just hope he doesn't take out his teammate at the start of the race

Remember Hungary 2006? It looked like a clear-cut win to either Alonso or Schumacher ... and Button was the first past the checkered flag. While I'm not suggesting Glock is going to start winning races for Toyota, he might just trigger something. How long have Toyota had the Trulli/Schumacher line-up? Two or three years? And they've achieved very little to be proud of in a world where you have to be running just to stand still. Bringing Glock in might just introduce a new kind of pace and a new kind of energy into the team and while they might not get results overnight, they might just decide to stick around post-2009. More teams on the grid can only be a good thing (unless they're underfunded like Midland/Spyker/Force India).

 

[Bram Turismo]

Toyota have been consistently disappointing ever since they began.

That sentence has been consistently disappointing since you began to write it. Remember the 2005 season? I think that season was everything except disappointing. In general, the same can be said of Honda. Their only impressive seasons were 2004 and 2006, with a win coming out of pure luck and based on other drivers mistakes, not the car's and driver's speed. And they've been around in F1 since 1999

I'm actually somewhat glad to hear this. Maybe some action will occur after this statement was issued.

I would really like to see Toyota continue from where they left off with the now-famous GT-One.

Agreed, I've always been against Toyota's plans for going into F1. If Toyota didn't pull out of Le Mans after '99, Audi would never have so much victories behind that R8. The GT-One was such an amazingly fast car, and just when it went into the right direction, they left. That was one big disappointment to me as the GT-One was a beautiful racer.

Watch their 2008 car look just like their 2003 car.

TOYODOR!

Umm, what? What about the F2008? What's so different about that car then the F2007? A car doesn't need to change dramatically to be fast, look at Mclaren's thin nose, they've been around for at least 2 years now as well. Williams came with that Godzilla front wing, did it help? No

but he can't seem to translate it into results. Renault would have dne better to keep him instead of signing Fisichella; we might have seen something much different in Trulli's career.

Disagreed on Trulli failing to translate a good qualifying position into a good result, might I point out Toyota's results in the Malaysian GP and Bahrain GP of the 2005 season, I see no reason to bash Trulli for those kind of results.

It IS interesting though what Trulli could've done if he stayed at Renault...

 

[Tornado]

In general, the same can be said of Honda. Their only impressive seasons were 2004 and 2006, with a win coming out of pure luck and based on other drivers mistakes, not the car's and driver's speed. And they've been around in F1 since 1999

I don't think anyone was claiming that Honda was the patron saint of success compared to Toyota.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I don't think anyone was claiming that Honda was the patron saint of success compared to Toyota.

No, no one did. But I'm tired of people constantly pointing the finger at Toyota while Honda is one of those teams as well that haven't got much to be proud of of what they've achieved in F1 after so many years, with such budgets used.

 

[Lee]

They should just give it to TRD for a season and see what they can come up with.

 

[Tornado]

I agree, but in a thread concerning Toyota's future in F1, I'm personally not surprised no one sat back and said "hey, Honda sucks too."

 

[Flerbizky]

I agree, but in a thread concerning Toyota's future in F1, I'm personally not surprised no one sat back and said "hey, Honda sucks too."

Honda will get their own "Man Honda Sucks" thread ;-)

 

[Bram Turismo]

I agree, but in a thread concerning Toyota's future in F1, I'm personally not surprised no one sat back and said "hey, Honda sucks too."

True. But as of lately, it's all getting a bit of:

"Hey, you know who sucks?"
"Uhhh, Toyota?"
"Correct! You know what car sucks?"
"The Toyota?"
"Correct as well! You know who have crappy drivers?"
"uhhhhh...Mid...No wait, Toyota?"
"Totally correct!"


And that's what I'm getting tired of...

 

[Roo]

I don't think the Toyota team are rubbish - it's just the management. Too many cooks and all that. With some proper leadership, coupled to the resources they have, they could be winning within the 2 year deadline.

And they've been around in F1 since 1999

BAR have, yes. Honda were their engine supplier. Honda as a team have been in recent existence since 2006; 1 win from 2 years (compared to Toyota's 0 wins in 6 years). If you're going to count Honda's time as an engine supplier, then there's the 5 drives and 6 constructor's championships...

Disagreed on Trulli failing to translate a good qualifying position into a good result, might I point out Toyota's results in the Malaysian GP and Bahrain GP of the 2005 season, I see no reason to bash Trulli for those kind of results.

But 2 races? From 3 seasons? Trulli's very good over a single lap, but his racecraft isn't quite as good as it could be - he seems to have flashes of brilliance in the middle of being average.

 

[Lee]

BAR have, yes. Honda were their engine supplier.

From 2000 onwards. BAR had Supertec engines in '99 which were basically crap.

 

[Roo]

Sorry, yes. They were with Jordan in '99 (and '00).

 

[daan]

Toyota have the budget and the technical expertise, but they don't seem to have 1 man at the top making decisions. You can't run a successful F1 team by committee. Jean, Frank, Ron, Flavio, et al attest to that.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Toyota have the budget and the technical expertise, but they don't seem to have 1 man at the top making decisions. You can't run a successful F1 team by committee. Jean, Frank, Ron, Flavio, et al attest to that.

Bingo!

 

[Blake]

That sentence has been consistently disappointing since you began to write it. Remember the 2005 season? I think that season was everything except disappointing.

What is disappointing is how they fell behind as the season progressed and that they weren’t able to use the solid results of 2005 to spring-board them onto better things for 2006.

Toyota haven’t gone about F1 the right way. They really should be taking some lessons from BMW-Sauber; but they’re probably too busy looking internally for someone to blame (and fire) to notice what other teams around them are doing.

 

[Metar]

Toyota have everything to do well - they just won't do it. Even disregarding the (rumored) slight horsepower-deficient, they just lack pace in every way - and in such a team, it takes a serious development driver to push things forward, and a seriously-quick driver to actually bring the results. And, of course, a team of efficient aerodynamicists and engineers, a single, powerful boss - and some luck.

At least they'll be using Williams expertise next season. Hope for them?

Agreed, I've always been against Toyota's plans for going into F1. If Toyota didn't pull out of Le Mans after '99, Audi would never have so much victories behind that R8. The GT-One was such an amazingly fast car, and just when it went into the right direction, they left. That was one big disappointment to me as the GT-One was a beautiful racer.

Beautiful, fast, successful - and obsolete. Rules were changed, new classes formed, and the GT-One because ineffective when the GT1 class closed. They obviously could've adapted it, or built something conforming to the new rules - but the GT-One, the original TS020, couldn't be raced. It also didn't win.

 

[CAMikaze]

They should just give it to TRD for a season and see what they can come up with.

I third what Bee said if things don't work out. And having a managment team with a good deal of F1 know-how wouldn't hurt either.