Track day car

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zac007
  • 61 comments
  • 4,909 views
Fox body mustangs need a lot of work just so they don't fail at the track. Unless you have an SVT, they have colossal brake fade, chassis flex, and body roll. None of these things are good news on a race track.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Fox body mustangs need a lot of work just so they don't fail at the track. Unless you have an SVT, they have colossal brake fade, chassis flex, and body roll. None of these things are good news on a race track.
Click to expand...

Brake fade I can agree on, the chassis flex isn't terrible by any means. The body roll is definitely much better than the II and the II's wasn't that bad to begin with.
 
Chassis flex is worse than terrible. The fox chassis mustang is one of the flimsiest unibody cars ever made.

chassis.jpg


Look at that drawing. There is a front subframe and a rear subframe, but just roof and floor (extremely low moment of inertia, 'flat' panels) in between. My car (91 Coupe) had stress fractures all along the C-pillar, not to mentioned totally twisted torque boxes, because it was being bent so much, and my car had subframe connectors! Even by 2004 the cars were still flimsy. Whenever I drive my mom's 2003 Mach 1 (which I love) I can feel the whole chassis flexing.

edit: The picture I posted in a first gen Mustang, but the fox cars are largely the same. Here is a commonly installed subframe connector setup:

jm2.jpg


Still less than ideal. You really need a full cage, or better yet a full tube-frame, to make a fox truly stiff.
 
Last edited:
Alright, fair enough. But then my next question is why are they so widly popular amongst performance people? (for lack of a better word)

I know the whole aftermarket is plentiful etc but surely there is more to it than that.
 
Because they're easy to modify to go fast in a straight line. On an actual track with turns, it's a different story with the amount of stress put on the chassis. I have only ever seen 2 Fox Bodys out at the track here & as you can see, they have been heavily modified to do so
30107123369391019574256.jpg
 
Last edited:
I realize in a straight line its not all the hard but I still see Foxes take some nice lap times on a circuit, especailly around where I live without much work done underneath from what I've been told. Surely they must be stiffer than what he's making them out to be?
 
Slashfan
I realize in a straight line its not all the hard but I still see Foxes take some nice lap times on a circuit, especailly around where I live without much work done underneath from what I've been told. Surely they must be stiffer than what he's making them out to be?
Click to expand...
What's the circuit, what constitutes a good lap time, & just what do these cars look like?

Because unless there's a lot of work done to them, 1 of those 3 isn't correct.
 
The cars look reliatively stock, from what I saw. I mean I could be honestly wrong, but from what I was told not much was done to them. That said I wasn't told specifically what was done either.

This was at a track day at Watkins Glen about a year and a half ago.

Anyways, I guess you learn something new everyday.
 
They are cheap, plentiful, and have decent power for their weight, and you can put big grippy tires on them without too much fuss. I think a lot of people race them because there is the opportunity to race them. But I wouldn't put a fox at the top of my list for a track weapon, there are much better, more rewarding tools available.

Back to my first gen RX-7 idea. Like the fox, they are cheap, plentiful, and durable, but they actually have a pretty decent body structure, well sorted suspension (especially SE models) 50/50 weight distribution, a fun engine (you have to wring them out, but that's pretty fun) and are light enough so that they don't incur big costs on brakes and tires. Also, they are common in Australia, which might be helpful to our OP. The MX-5 is probably the easier answer, but you have to add a roll bar.

My picks:

AWII MR2
SA22C/FB33 RX-7
NA/NB Miata

Some other ideas.

-DSM: Non turbo fwd model. Beat the ever living piss out of it. When it breaks, just get another one, they are so cheap and everywhere. Good little chassis, decent engine.
-Nissan SE-R: Anything with an SE-R badge will be decent on a track, and they always fall of the depreciation bus much harder than anything with an Si badge.
-First gen Dodge Neon: Not sure if they are available in Oz, but they have a willing chassis and decent engine.
-Mazda 323/Protege/3/Familia/Axela/whatever other names they are known as: Always good fun. Decent engines, great chassis
-Mazda 2: 0-60 in 8.7 seconds with only 100bhp? Don't let the anime-looks fool you, they are a bomb and a half of fun on a good road. Pot-pie sized drums on the rear might be a concern after some laps in anger, but I've never had a problem on the street.

I think anyone's first track car should be FWD, normally aspirated, and 4 cylinders. They generally are light, cheap, pretty fun, and can take a hell of a lot of abuse. Perhaps not the most rewarding as far as chassis dynamics, but they can teach you a hell of a lot about car control.
 
Cano
are they even available in Australia?
Click to expand...

Sure are, that one's for sale for AU$7500. RenaultSport Clio 172. One of the best cheap(ish) fun cars that's P-Plate legal.

Another thing to stress, the OP is on his P-Plates (or going to be on them soon? IIRC) so forced induction and V8-powered vehicles are disallowed in most states of Australia.

If Zac007 is using this as both a daily driver and a track day vehicle, then stuff like S13/S14s (naturally aspirated S13s of course are fine), RX-7s (same deal as the Silvias/180/200SXs), WRXs, turbocharged Skylines/Supras, and the vast majority of muscle cars are out of the question.

There are exemptions available for what is classified as a "moderately-powered" turbo- or supercharged vehicle which have to pass several criteria (power-to-weight ratio mainly - needs to be under 125kW [167hp] per tonne). Turbodiesels are automatically exempted.
 
Last edited:
Slashfan
The cars look reliatively stock, from what I saw. I mean I could be honestly wrong, but from what I was told not much was done to them. That said I wasn't told specifically what was done either.

This was at a track day at Watkins Glen about a year and a half ago.

Anyways, I guess you learn something new everyday.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing they did the short circuit without the chicane section. The long circuit will throw a lot more at a Fox Body.
 
McLaren
I'm guessing they did the short circuit without the chicane section. The long circuit will throw a lot more at a Fox Body.
Click to expand...

I think they alternated mid-day.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Fox body mustangs need a lot of work just so they don't fail at the track. Unless you have an SVT, they have colossal brake fade, chassis flex, and body roll. None of these things are good news on a race track.
Click to expand...

Never had an issue with the brakes, even post-turbo. We're around 2500 lbs less driver, with braided lines and good pads (EBC yellow). Body roll may be somewhat addressed with springs and sway bars. Chassis flex... is more difficult to get rid of. Our solution (full roll cage) is obviously not a viable solution for anything other than a track-only vehicle.
 
Zac007
I currently have a falcon xr6 as a daily driver. I want a car just for the track to have some fun with on weeekends. Dont want it to be to expensive, around 6 grand hopefully. I found this Miata for 4 grand but has a lot of kilometers on it what are your thoughts?
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Mazda-MX-5-1990/SSE-AD-2121982/?Cr=1
Click to expand...

Get a cheap FF, old DC2 Integras, EG Civic or N14-N15 Pulsar SSS, should be a lot of them around NSW -if you live around there. With these FF, you may feel underwhelmed by the power - mostly just over 100kW, but they are cheap to maintain.

If you are not on P platers anymore, get a cheap Nissan turbo cars ( S13, R32, R33 ) or if you dare - some front engine RWD Porsches from the 80s' to 90's if you have the dough to spend.
 
There are a whole lot of Miatas in your budget, and you'll have enough left over for brakes and tires.

If you're willing to go for a front-driver, the oldest new Mazda2s seem just within your budget. Fantastic cars. Not much power potential, but they're incredibly light, have a stiff chassis, lively handling and fantastic brakes. erhaps the only thing I would do is stiffen up the suspension to prevent dive under braking, as this unloads the rear axle and causes the ABS to go nuts... (the only disadvantage of the rear drums) but once past that, the brakes are strong and last pretty well, thanks to the light weight of the chassis. Only negative points is the low power potential if you're looking to upgrade (I know a guy who's blown the cheap plastic intake manifold twice while using nitrous... :D ), but as a learning tool on track that's cheap to run, it's perfect.

-

Another possibility is the 323 SP20... the "BJ" chassis Familia/Protege. Stiff chassis and better handling than the older cars, still within ten years of age... and in budget... and it's got a good motor and a better turn of speed than the older MX-5s. Stable on track, very good suspension and nice low-down torque. Forgiving to drive, and the steering feel is excellent.

The Ford Laser counterpart might just cost you less, though... for what is the same car with a Ford badge... though looking online, seems the prices aren't that much lower... a hundred dollars here or there for the SR2.

-

Another left-field candidate: The Honda Jazz. In budget, best gotten with a 1.5 and a stick. Quicker than the Mazda2. Steering not as good, but handling is pretty good if you're getting the VTi with the bigger 15" or even aftermarket 16" alloys. Really cheap to run (except at highway speeds). Even cheaper to run with the 1.3 iDSi, but you're not buying one of those for the track. (I know people who do track days with the 1.3, though... good way to get in a lot of laps for not much gas).
 
Foxes do fine in racing because they sidestep the flex issue by being caged. They're also common and dirt cheap, and have tons of aftermarket options, all of which contribute to their popularity as track cars. That doesn't make them good street/track cars, though, and they're not a huge amount of fun as a "trackday" car, just a passable cheap entry into wheel to wheel racing in some cases.

As mentioned many times, MX5 is a great option. You do have to deal with putting a good rollbar in it, though, and once that's done you may end up wanting a hardtop. Other comparable options (MR2, AE86, E30, S13) tend to be more difficult to find without a serious history of abuse or poorly-advised mods.

The Mazda2 is a great car and plenty of fun on track, plus it's practical and has decent aftermarket support. My girlfriend has a Fit (Jazz) and it can't even be compared to the 2, it drives like a van. It may put down decent laptimes if properly driven but it's much, much less enjoyable to drive.
 
The GE Jazz/Fit is rather blah, but the GD, despite the steering being nowhere near as sweet as the Mazda's, is a lot of fun to hustle around. Better to get the mid-model facelift, because they altered the suspension somewhat, making it handle better.
 
I'll just leave this here...

 
I'll just leave this here too...
 
Zac007, post some pictures of the car once you purchase it 👍.
 
Zac, if you live in NSW, here are good cars advertised at carsales :

MA71 Supra Turbo 1989 :

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Toyota-Supra-1989/SSE-AD-2091955/?Cr=0

Price : $ 6,999, low kms : less than 84,000 kms

I have full documentation including, import papers (shipping documents), engineers certificate including larger wheels and exhaust, exhaust compliance papers and import approval papers.
this is a genuine Japanese spec model, not an aus model, which makes this car quite rare.
in the period of driving the car i blew the turbo and replaced it with a new toyota one.
i have had the car off the road for about 9 months now as i have another car as my daily the supra just got left in the garage.
it comes with 7 months rego and the custom plates

braided brake lines
one piece custom tail shaft
slotted disks
whalbro fuel pump
18x8 and 18x9 hp racing wheels, front rubber good rear rubber waring.
pads in good condition
paint condidtion, not the best, up to you what you would like to do.
minor dents in drivers side front quater panel
turbosmart stealth plumb back BOV
brand new TOYOTA turbo charger
digital dash
new injector seals
new platinum spark plugs
new leads
fully serviced throttle body
new coolant
new oil
blitz NER spec exhaust
full 3 inch mild steel exhaust from dump pipe, sounds real nice
boost guage
standard steering wheel ( removable steering wheel not included)
electric lumbar controlled drivers seat
electric windows
digital dash
12" pioneer sub with hidden pioneer amplifier no cd player
new battery
fog lights
pod filter
polished intake (3000) pipe
electric folding mirrors
electric mirror adjustment
working pop up headlights
after market gear knob
full size 18 inch spare wheel, same black HP design rim
not sure if air conditioning works, it didn't have an AC belt when I bought it
the speedometer does not show the speed on the dash, I believe it has something to do with some wires behind the cluster ( could be a quick fix) just never had the time to investigate.
Click to expand...

cp5715694136098316515.jpg


cp5130013313348937767.jpg


cp5710119014763796163.jpg



JZA80 Supra SZ-R 1995

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Toyota-Supra-1995/SSE-AD-2118040/?Cr=60

Price : $10,000, low kms : 141,000 kms
1995 Non turbo (p-plate legal) SZ-R Supra, ive owned this car for just over three years and it has never skipped a beat very realiable and strong. i am the first owner of this car in Australia as i had the Supra imported from japan when i purchased the vehicle. It has full 12 months rego and 4 basicly new tyres and has just been serviced. allways garaged and well looked after she does has a few blemishes but anything does after 15 years. i have serviced her every 10,000kms and replaced all fluids recently e.g gearbox oil, diff oil, brake fluid, clutch fluid etc.
modifications include>
BC Racing Gold Coilovers.
Exedy Heavy duty cushion button clutch.
HKS super Dragger exhaust 2.5 inch.
Mines chipped ECU from Japan.
Custom coil air intake with K&N pod filter (enclosed)
Car has been dyno'd and made 167KW at the wheels so about 35KW more than stock. i have the dyno sheet as well
aftermarket steering wheel.
Carbon Gearnob.
TRD roof wing.
17x9 inch Black Volk Racing wheels.
purple anodized tow hook.
Sony in dash DVD/CD player.
Allpine mono block amp.
12inch Alpine sub and speakers in doors and back seat.
and more.

very regretful sale of my pride and joy but it has come time to move on to something different.
please NO time wasters or tyre kickers.
All reasonable offers will be considered.
Click to expand...

cp5640703527684154518.jpg


cp4710977624719811464.jpg


cp5497747340632445916.jpg


I would recommend the Turbo MA71, it has less than perfect interior amenities - no audio and A/C, low kms, cheap and perfect for track days, do some weight savings, some mechanical maintenance and tune up.

OR spend some more and get the 10k '95 Supra, well sorted out and ready to drive with much less hassle.
 
Last edited:
Do they have C4 Corvettes down there? Might be a bit expensive but I thought it was a worthy suggestion for spitballing.
 
Back