Traction in general

1
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I've been playing GT for years but never really taken it online as i've never really felt confident in my abilities against other players.

I am losing heaps of time on corner exit due to having to run TC whereas my competitors clearly aren't, no matter how smooth i drive i just can't seem to be as fast with the traction control off. I'm playing on pad and i was wondering if there's anything i can do car setup wise to try and counter the lack of traction?
 
I've been playing GT for years but never really taken it online as i've never really felt confident in my abilities against other players.

I am losing heaps of time on corner exit due to having to run TC whereas my competitors clearly aren't, no matter how smooth i drive i just can't seem to be as fast with the traction control off. I'm playing on pad and i was wondering if there's anything i can do car setup wise to try and counter the lack of traction?
The answer to this is long. The majority of traction issues, whether with TC on or off are caused by user input. That's the reality.

A quick note on acceleration issues in GT, overall: If you're allowed to, turn the rear differential acceleration setting way down. This is for RWD and rear-drive biased AWD cars only. For some reason, starting in GT6, PD set the acceleration on diffs at like 40. It's way too high for ANY rear-biased car. This high level of lock will cause your outside rear wheel to start spinning before, or at the same time as your inside rear on corner exit, and cause oversteer. I don't know why they did this. I guess maybe the drifters like it, but this ain't drifting. I recommend setting rear diff accel at 10, then tuning +1 tick at a time if the inside wheel is spinning until it stops, or -1 if you're still getting snap oversteer at corner exit, until that stops. I'll put my next paycheck down that resolves 50% of your corner exit issue right there. Now, moving on.

First, if you're not using R2 for the accelerator, don't bother. Some have luck using the right joystick for accel + braking, but I've always found it a little too hard to finely modulate throttle with it as the controller moves around while you steer/while it rumbles. So, assuming you're using the right trigger to accelerate, here's my advice:

It sounds like you're giving too much throttle input, regardless of your TC setting. Keep in mind that TC in game and in the real world works by cutting power when wheel slip is detected. If you just mash the accelerator coming out of a corner, TC is going to slow your engine speed down in order to avoid wheelspin. Not only do you lose power due to the lower engine speed, but you lose further acceleration even after TC stops intervening b/c you're RPM/gear combination will be sub-optimal. Without TC on, you would just spin the wheels and go nowhere fast (or oversteer into the wall). With TC, you're still going nowhere, but the reason is different (as stated, your engine speed has been severely reduced). Either way the result is the same: slow corner exit. The key for both approaches is to have good throttle modulation.

You are inherently at a little bit of a disadvantage at this being a pad user. The trigger has far less physical travel than a pedal does--maybe half an inch of depression compared to several inches for a pedal. Because the trigger has to provide the same range of throttle opening with a lot less travel, it's way more sensitive than a pedal. The good news is that, barring some neuromuscular issue, you should have more fine control in your index or middle finger than you do in your ankle. Practice not only being smooth with the trigger throttle, but being millimeter-precise with your inputs. Half a millimeter even. On race cars or street cars with flywheel tuning, even half a millimeter is a big difference in throttle opening and RPM. Practice feeding more throttle as your car starts to grip without just mashing it. In the same vein, practice easing off when wheelspin begins without completely snapping off throttle. It'll take a while, but you'll get a great feel for it. For a real challenge, do this on the least grippy tire that makes sense for the car you're in. On race cars, use racing hards. On powerful street cars, practice with sports hards. When you master traction with these, you'll be golden on grippier tires.

Practice the above with TC off. You will never know what the car is truly doing if you've got the computer running things. When you've got it down, go ahead and turn the TC on. Start with the lowest setting, of course. Because you learned to modulate the throttle well without TC, you'll now be a lot better at exiting corners without activating it too much, while still being able to lean on it a little if you make a small mistake or as your tires start to wear off in longer races. Turn it up as needed in especially difficult weather conditions.

Important: don't ever feel bad about using traction control. I've been playing these game since I was a teenager, and there's always been this stigma against using TC. I admit I have been both a victim and perpetrator of said stigma (hence how I got so good at driving w/ a controller without it, haha!). But the reality is, the overwhelming majority of race cars in this game use traction control in their real-life counterparts. So even the pros...the guys who get paid and get rich off driving these cars use TC. Unless it's explicitly banned from a race or league, use it! Just know that it will be an enemy and not a friend until you learn good throttle modulation for yourself. It's a cane, not a wheelchair.
 
Turn TC off and do a few laps just to get a feeling of how much throttle you need at corner exits. Then you can turn TC back on again.

It's the same with ABS and trail braking, when you use ABS it's easy to use too much braking force, which leaves you very little grip left for turning. By switching off the ABS and doing a few laps you get a better idea of how much grip you have and how hard you can brake without losing too much steering.
 
TIf you're allowed to, turn the rear differential acceleration setting way down.

This. If you're tuning out oversteer this is the biggest impact you can make. I used to run something like 10/15/12 on most rear drive cars in GT5&6. Higher braking if the engine is in the back but that's a different discussion. Regardless, LSD was always the first thing I dialed in if I was tuning. Of course, if you're doing the Sport races chances are that settings will be locked...

Which leaves you with getting good with the triggers, as mentioned. There is going to be a disadvantage because of the sensitivity but there's at least a couple guys I know of who used to use the pad and turn alien times. It's definitely doable but it'll take some work.
 
I've been playing GT for years but never really taken it online as i've never really felt confident in my abilities against other players.

I am losing heaps of time on corner exit due to having to run TC whereas my competitors clearly aren't, no matter how smooth i drive i just can't seem to be as fast with the traction control off. I'm playing on pad and i was wondering if there's anything i can do car setup wise to try and counter the lack of traction?

Loss of traction is primarily caused by 2 factors (they are linked, but easier to explain them separately)...

1) too much gas
2) too much steering angle

1st thing to address is minimising your steering angle post the apex. The amount of throttle you can apply is inversely proportional to the amount of steering angle you have applied... so less steering angle = more throttle. This is why wheel users generally will be faster - with a wheel, it's much easier to apply a small amount of lock than with a controller. So you need to work on your steering technique!!

As far as improving traction in isolation, the 1st thing to do (and by far the most effective), is to reduce the LSD accel setting (when you are allowed to change settings)... start around 15 and work from there... less LSD accel = less oversteer, but also less acceleration. Generally you only need to work within the range of 10 to 20... a more grippy car will allow high settings, less grippy will need lower.

I would also always reduce LSD decel (to minimum) and lower rear toe (to <+0.20)... this reduces understeer and so helps you reduce the amount of steering angle you need (see point 1 above!).
 
I was having the same issue for about a week, I eventually moved my way down to 0 TC, slowly. Started at 3, dropped to 2,1 then zero it has worked wonders on my car control overall and i use a pad (for now, Thrustmaster T300 is in the game room, racing chair is supposed to be here tomorrow). Now I have also learned that adjusting your LSD works incredibly well, but be warned that Tuning is not allowed in nearly 90% of your online races, PD should have just left tuning out as noone uses it anyway, f*&*&^& millennials.
 
Oh, meant to say...

Nothing wrong with using aids. I use TC 2 when I'm racing grp3 cars, and I use active steering some of the time. You'd be surprised how many of the very fastest drivers use them as well.

The difference is they tend not to abuse them... they are there as a safety net when the racing is super close... so normally you just push up to them, but they are there if you happen to slightly overstep the mark under pressure.
 
Having previously been 'against' (purely snobby for some stupid reason) driver aids, traction control set at 2 with the 911 gt3 has totally changed my view.

Set a 1.40.240 at Dragons Trail (BoP) this morning as a result after struggling to get under 1.41 with aids off.

I think it's down to discovering what works best for you, using the aids (using default TCS) to your advantage. Same with brake bias for me. A few hot laps with some variation in assists each time allows me to discover the best way for me driving style.

When tuning is removed, utilising what little is at your disposal is key.

Edit....ok, so having turned TCS off I've now gone a shade faster....and am actually more consistent...what I would say is, use TCS to familiarise yourself and get some confidence with the car and track. Defo helped me!
 
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The answer to this is long. The majority of traction issues, whether with TC on or off are caused by user input. That's the reality.

A quick note on acceleration issues in GT, overall: If you're allowed to, turn the rear differential acceleration setting way down. This is for RWD and rear-drive biased AWD cars only. For some reason, starting in GT6, PD set the acceleration on diffs at like 40. It's way too high for ANY rear-biased car. This high level of lock will cause your outside rear wheel to start spinning before, or at the same time as your inside rear on corner exit, and cause oversteer. I don't know why they did this. I guess maybe the drifters like it, but this ain't drifting. I recommend setting rear diff accel at 10, then tuning +1 tick at a time if the inside wheel is spinning until it stops, or -1 if you're still getting snap oversteer at corner exit, until that stops. I'll put my next paycheck down that resolves 50% of your corner exit issue right there. Now, moving on.

First, if you're not using R2 for the accelerator, don't bother. Some have luck using the right joystick for accel + braking, but I've always found it a little too hard to finely modulate throttle with it as the controller moves around while you steer/while it rumbles. So, assuming you're using the right trigger to accelerate, here's my advice:

It sounds like you're giving too much throttle input, regardless of your TC setting. Keep in mind that TC in game and in the real world works by cutting power when wheel slip is detected. If you just mash the accelerator coming out of a corner, TC is going to slow your engine speed down in order to avoid wheelspin. Not only do you lose power due to the lower engine speed, but you lose further acceleration even after TC stops intervening b/c you're RPM/gear combination will be sub-optimal. Without TC on, you would just spin the wheels and go nowhere fast (or oversteer into the wall). With TC, you're still going nowhere, but the reason is different (as stated, your engine speed has been severely reduced). Either way the result is the same: slow corner exit. The key for both approaches is to have good throttle modulation.

You are inherently at a little bit of a disadvantage at this being a pad user. The trigger has far less physical travel than a pedal does--maybe half an inch of depression compared to several inches for a pedal. Because the trigger has to provide the same range of throttle opening with a lot less travel, it's way more sensitive than a pedal. The good news is that, barring some neuromuscular issue, you should have more fine control in your index or middle finger than you do in your ankle. Practice not only being smooth with the trigger throttle, but being millimeter-precise with your inputs. Half a millimeter even. On race cars or street cars with flywheel tuning, even half a millimeter is a big difference in throttle opening and RPM. Practice feeding more throttle as your car starts to grip without just mashing it. In the same vein, practice easing off when wheelspin begins without completely snapping off throttle. It'll take a while, but you'll get a great feel for it. For a real challenge, do this on the least grippy tire that makes sense for the car you're in. On race cars, use racing hards. On powerful street cars, practice with sports hards. When you master traction with these, you'll be golden on grippier tires.

Practice the above with TC off. You will never know what the car is truly doing if you've got the computer running things. When you've got it down, go ahead and turn the TC on. Start with the lowest setting, of course. Because you learned to modulate the throttle well without TC, you'll now be a lot better at exiting corners without activating it too much, while still being able to lean on it a little if you make a small mistake or as your tires start to wear off in longer races. Turn it up as needed in especially difficult weather conditions.

Important: don't ever feel bad about using traction control. I've been playing these game since I was a teenager, and there's always been this stigma against using TC. I admit I have been both a victim and perpetrator of said stigma (hence how I got so good at driving w/ a controller without it, haha!). But the reality is, the overwhelming majority of race cars in this game use traction control in their real-life counterparts. So even the pros...the guys who get paid and get rich off driving these cars use TC. Unless it's explicitly banned from a race or league, use it! Just know that it will be an enemy and not a friend until you learn good throttle modulation for yourself. It's a cane, not a wheelchair.

I totally agree with you. Even if i already know everything you said it was refreshing and good for me to read. This is somthing of a great importance when it comes to drifting. and not only being precise on throttle but also the brakes. When chasing another drifter you want to be close as possible to the lead car. (DOOR 2 DOOR) Using the brakes allows you to adjust the speed more precise when going sideways. Just a small amount of braking without releasing the throttle.
 
The answer to this is long. The majority of traction issues, whether with TC on or off are caused by user input. That's the reality.

Great explanation (didn't quote the whole thing but its all good). Completely explains why I can run a Scirocco (FF) on TC-0 and can hardly run anything else on TC <2, and what I'm doing wrong that's causing it.

Thanks for taking the time to write it.
 

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