Transformers 3: Dark Of The Moon (7/1/11)

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Plot holes are not the fault of the director, unless he's the writer-director.
Actually, it depends on what the plot hole issue is caused by. Sometimes it is writing, which the director can request a rewrite in a scene, or it is due to editing, which falls squarely on the director's head. Given the history of Michael Bay films I can't believe that all the plot holes in Transformers were the fault of Orci and Kurtzman. Especially considering the quality of some of their other work.

Eh, maybe ... I'm not too familiar with Blomkamp's work,
District 9 is his only mainstream film.

but I can't see Spielberg or Jackson helming TRANSFORMERS. Given the subject matter, it's only ever going to be light entertainment, and I think Spielberg and Jackson - even when they're at their most fun-loving - just wouldn't be the right fit. I think TRANSFORMERS generally worked because of Bay's kid-like approach of solving every problem by blowing it up, that larger-than-life quality that you're willing to suspend your disbelief for just to get a little bit more.
Spielberg was at his best sci-fi when he was focused on kid-like qualities and wasn't trying to do his best Kubrick impression. I think that he could have made something more like the old cartoons where they had the same feel as something like Star Wars, where the action was important but you weren't trying to literally blow your audience away.

And Jackson has been trying to get a Halo film going. I think he wants something along these lines.

Also, James Cameron would have been completely wrong for TRANSFORMERS. I find his films tend to feel a little empty, a little soulless. They're technical showcases first, designed to show off a director's prowess before being a vehicale for an actor. It happened in TRUE LIES, in TITANIC and in AVATAR (though I did enjoy AVATAR for what it was).
Yet films like The Abyss, Aliens, The Terminator, and Terminator 2 show that he could clearly bring this kind of film to reality in a quality way.

It is as if you think Transformers could only be done one way. I honestly think there is a lot more that can be done rather than "stuff goes boom, yay!" I mean, they attempted to focus the story on a boy and his alien/robot more so than the war going on and its larger implications. If that is what they wanted Spielberg (ET) or Cameron (T2) clearly have done that previously, and extremely well.


To be fair, every director can have his dud moments. No doubt the studio thought they were onto something big when they got the final drafts of both PEARL HARBOUR and REVENGE OF THE FALLEN. There's a saying in Hollywood that you have no idea how good your script is until you've made the final film, because no film can be made until a production studio green-lights it, and the script is an integral part of that. A film is initially sold on the merits of its screenplay, so it has to impress someone first.
My issue with Michael Bay is not about one dud. He is a summer movie moneymaker. I get that, but it doesn't excuse him from almost consistently making movies that have no other merit to them.

And in this interview with Orci and Kurtzman, discussing Transformers vs Star Trek they make it sound as if Bay had input in the writing.

Well, our director has a very different sensibility as far as where he's getting his humor from. The The Transformers are generating humor from the way they talk. And the humor in Star Trek is very much about the circumstances our characters find themselves in. It's literally the difference between cracking jokes and being in a funny situation. They're different franchises.

There are only a handful of directors I can think of who have never made a bad film. Christopher Nolan is the only one who comes to mind right now - not even Tarantino has a perfect track record (he did, after all, make DEATH PROOF). Taken on its own, PEARL HARBOUR could be evidence of a director just having a bad run - it's PEARL HARBOUR combined with REVENGE OF THE FALLEN that proves he just goes too far sometimes (I haven't actually seen BAD BOYS II and I've only seen the first half of ARMAGEDDON, so I can't really judge them).
No director has a perfect track record, but some have a negative record. Bay isn't Uwe Boll bad, but he clearly doesn't understand how to handle source material that others might take seriously, or how to use a steady cam.

"Right" is a relative term. It was the part he got right comapred to the rest of the film, but that doesn't make it perfect. I recall most of the critics pointing to the forest fight as being one of the few scenes where the film achieves something positive.
The forest fight had the opportunity to be pure epic, all but directly copying a similar fight from the animated movie. Unfortunately, I couldn't see half of it because the camera was never still.

Okay, here's how I would have done the trilogy. You'll have to bear with me a little bit, because it might be a little long:
I definitely suggest you check out Ghosts of Yesterday. It details the Cold War/space race thing and even gives what can be used as an explanation for other wandering Cybertronians to come to Earth, including the likes of Unicron.


EDIT:
And on the subject of Cameron: he did marvellous movies (alien, t2), but i don't take that for granted (for any director, producer,...). He did also some pretty dull movies :as avatar which is just a copy of a subject that was been chewed on so long it became tasteless.

avatar = pocahontas with 3d

(it's also on the fail thread) Look on the name of the autor haha lolol
I have never hidden the fact that I found Avatar to be extremely dull. But it was clear from watching the film and listening to Cameron talk about it that he was more or less making a technical display for 3D. Honestly, he made the same mistakes that Bay makes in most of his films: A generic story wrapped around a visual feast.
 
Was slightly annoying that Megan Fox isnt in it just because of continuity but its no biggy. This new girl is questionable but I'm sure her acting ability will be on par with Fox's ;).

I'm really hoping Jolt features more prominently in this film and it would nice to see a few more European and Asian cars.

On the topic of Avatar I have NEVER watched it and I refuse to, its an arrogant tech demo.

Robin.
 
District 9 is his only mainstream film.
Haven't seen it. I've heard good reviews, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Spielberg was at his best sci-fi when he was focused on kid-like qualities and wasn't trying to do his best Kubrick impression. I think that he could have made something more like the old cartoons where they had the same feel as something like Star Wars, where the action was important but you weren't trying to literally blow your audience away.
For me, the definitive Spielberg sci-fi film is ET, and while it has the same child-like wonder that a director would need for a film like TRANSFORMERS, I just can't see the transition. ET is such a brilliant film because the entire thing is shot from a child's position - no adult's face is ever seen in the film. Spielberg deliberately positioned the camera to be at Elliot's head height and kept it there.

And Jackson has been trying to get a Halo film going. I think he wants something along these lines.
He's only bee producing it - taking the same role as Spielberg did in the TRANSFORMERS films.

Yet films like The Abyss, Aliens, The Terminator, and Terminator 2 show that he could clearly bring this kind of film to reality in a quality way.
He could, but if you follow his trajectory of films, he's gradually gone from the storytelling of ALIENS to the technical complexity of AVATAR. It's evident as early as TERMINATOR 2, with the concentration on the special effects of the T-1000.

It is as if you think Transformers could only be done one way.
I don't. I just have a hard time seeing how other directors could have done the project and still retain my inner nine-year-old's imagination.

I honestly think there is a lot more that can be done rather than "stuff goes boom, yay!" I mean, they attempted to focus the story on a boy and his alien/robot more so than the war going on and its larger implications.
TRANSFORMERS needed an origin story. We needed an introduction to the mythology. Before you can explore the implications of the civil war, you need to establish who is who and that sort of thing. It's not about breadth, it's about establishing enough depth so that when you do get to the point where you can start exploring the Cybertronian war, it doesn't all collapse in on you. TRANSFORMERS, I think, did enough to be a solid foundation, even if it wasn't perfect. We found out enough about the characters and their motivations so that when the sequel came about, we knew the status quo. And at the most basic story level, REVENGE OF THE FALLEN had some good stuff in it (the Decepticons bring the Fallen out of exile to gain the upper hand in their war with the Autobots - it's almost like THE DARK KNIGHT in the way the mafia allied themselves with the Joker to bring down Batman). It was in the execution that REVENGE OF THE FALLEN got out of hand. And I think that was because where TRANSFORMERS always remembered where it had started - particularly in its action sequence - REVENGE OF THE FALLEN lost its way. It tried to be bigger and more explosive than the first because it thought that would improve it. The story was stopped and started for the action scenes (which is occasionally okay when it's called for, like when the Autobots evacuate Sam through the forest), or worse, important story sequences were shaved down in favour of more action.

And in this interview with Orci and Kurtzman, discussing Transformers vs Star Trek they make it sound as if Bay had input in the writing.
I can see where that might happen - scenes like the super-fine transformer infiltrating Diego Garcia show a real imagination (largely because of the way it's so thin it's almost invisible) - but Bay's influence on the script seems to have been things that are secondary. Like the Twins; you could cut them out without affecting anything in the story too much. If he interfered, it was only in things that didn't really matter too much and were just fairy floss. I don't think his meddling in the script was as bad as, say, Lee Tamahori in DIE ANOTHER DAY (seriously, his grubby fingerprints are all over that film). The other variable in REVENGE OF THE FALLEN seems to be the introduction of Ehren Kruger. He's the only thing that really changed between the two films, so I suspect he may have had a hand in things.

I definitely suggest you check out Ghosts of Yesterday. It details the Cold War/space race thing and even gives what can be used as an explanation for other wandering Cybertronians to come to Earth, including the likes of Unicron.
I'll have a look if and when I can. In the meantime, what did you think of my reimagined Fallen? And Shockwave being imprisoned in Chernobyl; I thought that was one of my more lucid moments.

I have never hidden the fact that I found Avatar to be extremely dull. But it was clear from watching the film and listening to Cameron talk about it that he was more or less making a technical display for 3D. Honestly, he made the same mistakes that Bay makes in most of his films: A generic story wrapped around a visual feast.
That's what I was talking about when I said I didn't think Cameron would be right for TRANSFORMERS, in the sense that "right" means they could deliver more than Bay did. I can't help but think that Cameron would concentrate too much on the robots - not in the sense that he would explore them as characters, but that the emphasis would be on the technical qualities of the film. As an audience, we'd probably be expected to sit there and go "Oooooh, look at how they did that!" and "Aaaaah, isn't the CGI so fantastic?" while everything else - plot, character, even action (and by this I don't just mean your traditional action scene, but any action being performed by anyone) -would be pushed to a secondary role.
 
Haven't seen it. I've heard good reviews, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
I felt Blomkamp could do it ever since I saw this:
D9_still_04b.jpg


For me, the definitive Spielberg sci-fi film is ET, and while it has the same child-like wonder that a director would need for a film like TRANSFORMERS, I just can't see the transition. ET is such a brilliant film because the entire thing is shot from a child's position - no adult's face is ever seen in the film. Spielberg deliberately positioned the camera to be at Elliot's head height and kept it there.
We must have seen different versions, and I have the 20th Anniversary edition with two versions included.

He's only bee producing it - taking the same role as Spielberg did in the TRANSFORMERS films.
As it hasn't been picked up his ultimate role isn't decided and there's been rumors of him possibly directing, or someone like Blomkamp.

He could, but if you follow his trajectory of films, he's gradually gone from the storytelling of ALIENS to the technical complexity of AVATAR. It's evident as early as TERMINATOR 2, with the concentration on the special effects of the T-1000.
I suggest a look at his non-fiction films. Aliens of the Deep is a documentary designed to leave the viewer in a state of wonder as they see things never even imagined before.

I don't. I just have a hard time seeing how other directors could have done the project and still retain my inner nine-year-old's imagination.
Well, maintaining the characters' integrity would be a good start. My inner five-year-old walked out of the first film thinking that this is Transformers in name only. I watched what were supposed to be soldiers in a covert role turned into a vaudeville act, and literally get peed on. I watched a story about these alien robots and their interaction with a few human allies turned into a teen romance.

Of course, he could have also made the whole thing better by not shaking the camera around during action scenes, and getting some real acting out of his cast. Jon Voight mailed it in, Torturro wasn't necessary in either film, and the rest of the supporting cast were clearly not chosen for their talent. And more than half of them were throwaway characters that added nothing to the story. But now this is me asking Michael Bay to recognize general good quality movie-making skills.

I know I only watched some of G1 Season 2 last week, and its been a while since I read an issue of the comics on my PSP's digital comics reader, but what I see in those things and what I see in Bay's films are similar in name only.

TRANSFORMERS needed an origin story. We needed an introduction to the mythology. Before you can explore the implications of the civil war, you need to establish who is who and that sort of thing. It's not about breadth, it's about establishing enough depth so that when you do get to the point where you can start exploring the Cybertronian war, it doesn't all collapse in on you.
Nearly the first half hour of the first film focused on Sam, his parents, and Mikaela. The introduction to the mythology and characters was done in one scene where Optimus introduced everyone, they all acted like imbeciles, and then Optimus projected a hologram of the Cybertron backstory on the ground. Then we got a bit more as Jon Voight mumbled through the story of Megatron and the cube's discovery. That bit threw me off completely because apparently arctic temperatures can freeze a Transformer, but the near absolute zero of space has no effect on them as they fly from planet to planet.

I feel as if a focus on the robots, not some romance story that no one cares about, would have given us a proper back story to branch out from.

TRANSFORMERS, I think, did enough to be a solid foundation, even if it wasn't perfect. We found out enough about the characters and their motivations so that when the sequel came about, we knew the status quo.
That Megatron and Starscream dynamic was fleshed out so well with that one line of dialogue between them.

And at the most basic story level, REVENGE OF THE FALLEN had some good stuff in it (the Decepticons bring the Fallen out of exile to gain the upper hand in their war with the Autobots - it's almost like THE DARK KNIGHT in the way the mafia allied themselves with the Joker to bring down Batman).
I thought Fallen was supposedly always behind the scenes pulling strings? Megatron even calls him master and immediately begins taking orders from him after being revived. That is why I felt The Fallen was so poorly executed. It would be like finding out the emperor exists midway through The Empire Strikes Back. Megatron was supposedly leader of the Decepticons, then suddenly he is taking orders as well. Of course The Fallen turned out to be exceptionally weak and pointless overall. Just another forgettable side character given too much (any) screen time.

It isn't as if they needed to make the story up. It already existed in a fairly usable form.

The story was stopped and started for the action scenes (which is occasionally okay when it's called for, like when the Autobots evacuate Sam through the forest), or worse, important story sequences were shaved down in favour of more action.
This is the second biggest problem in Hollywood right now, as I see it. Directors and writers have forgotten what organic action means. A forced action scene that doesn't make sense has no role in a movie, no matter how well executed that scene is.

I can see where that might happen - scenes like the super-fine transformer infiltrating Diego Garcia show a real imagination (largely because of the way it's so thin it's almost invisible) - but Bay's influence on the script seems to have been things that are secondary. Like the Twins; you could cut them out without affecting anything in the story too much. If he interfered, it was only in things that didn't really matter too much and were just fairy floss. I don't think his meddling in the script was as bad as, say, Lee Tamahori in DIE ANOTHER DAY (seriously, his grubby fingerprints are all over that film). The other variable in REVENGE OF THE FALLEN seems to be the introduction of Ehren Kruger. He's the only thing that really changed between the two films, so I suspect he may have had a hand in things.
As I said before, I would be willing to blame Orci and Kurtzman more, if their non-Transformers track record wasn't much better. Either they just don't get Transformers at all and have little respect for the source material (but were almost the exact opposite on Star Trek?), or Michael Bay isn't translating their script to screen well. Sure Kruger is the new factor in Transformers 2, but to me Transformers was poorly done and Revenge of the Fallen just felt like a usual case of horrible sequel following a bad film.

I'll have a look if and when I can. In the meantime, what did you think of my reimagined Fallen? And Shockwave being imprisoned in Chernobyl; I thought that was one of my more lucid moments.
It is better than what we will get and works with what we have been given. But I personally have been worn out on the concept that Earth and Cybertron have had all these connections for years. Too much coincidence in a universe the size of ours.

That's what I was talking about when I said I didn't think Cameron would be right for TRANSFORMERS, in the sense that "right" means they could deliver more than Bay did. I can't help but think that Cameron would concentrate too much on the robots - not in the sense that he would explore them as characters, but that the emphasis would be on the technical qualities of the film. As an audience, we'd probably be expected to sit there and go "Oooooh, look at how they did that!" and "Aaaaah, isn't the CGI so fantastic?" while everything else - plot, character, even action (and by this I don't just mean your traditional action scene, but any action being performed by anyone) -would be pushed to a secondary role.
I think that would be the result if this were made when the CGI being used was new. But now he wouldn't have a new toy to focus on as much and it would give him room to focus on them as characters.

By the way, why is Cameron expecting us to focus on the technical expertise worse than Bay expecting me to marvel at his pyrotechnics? Sure, when Cameron does it he rehashes an old story style, but at least it is mostly coherent.
 
Personally, if interludes' idea for Transformers was used instead of (insert whoever wrote the script for the Transformers trilogy)'s script, I'd pay to go to see it.
 
this goes here although it's racin and movie related. apparently, Patrick Dempsy missed todays DP race 'cause he was out filmin Transformers. (for some reason, the key between f and h has stopped workin')
 
I lol'd at how GM used Revenge of the Fallen as advertising. Almost every car in that movie was a GM. Even the NASCARS appearing in this one are all Impalas.
 
Product placement offsets the costs of production. Your money has to come from somewhere. So rather than paying car companies to use their vehicles, the deal with GM means they get paid to use them.
 
They had a GM product placement deal in the first movie as well. Many movies do that.
 
The only reason why Megan Fox isn't in, is because she said some nasty stuff about Michael Bay, and Bay through one of his fits and fired her. If I was Shia, I'd have left with Megan.

When you call your boss a "nazi" and compare him to Hitler I think being fired is perfectly justified. Especially if the only purpose you served was to look good.
Besides, she's even claimed that she made the decision to leave.
 
That is some nice battle gear Micheal Bay bolted onto those NASCARs. Maybe NASCAR of the future could have a destruction derby with remote-controlled cars, because I'd love to pilot a Car of Tomorrow with two rocket launchers and a machinegun Vigilante 8-style to destroy other cars.

Then again... that may be making NASCAR a little more Southern than usual. (Not that I'm insulting it: I am a fan of it, but I'm slowly starting to gravitate away). However, either way at least those NASCARs look somewhat cool.

Either that, or Micheal Bay saw what Gran Turismo 5 was doing with NASCARs and said, "I could do that too - but with more explosions and guns!"
 
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That is some nice battle gear Micheal Bay bolted onto those NASCARs. Maybe NASCAR of the future could have a destruction derby with remote-controlled cars, because I'd love to pilot a Car of Tomorrow with two rocket launchers and a machinegun Vigilante 8-style to destroy other cars.
Let's not forge the main reason why the Cybertronians originally took on earth vehicle forms: To hide in plain sight. It is why Decepticons were more likely to take on the form of military vehicles, so they could still maintain their form while firing weaponry. Adding guns and whatnot to a non-military vehicle just makes zero sense.
 
Michael Bay tends to make fantastic looking, good fun films...

The Rock, Con Air, Armageddon, Bad Boys (1 & 2), Pearl Harbour, Transformers (1 & 2).. are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head... but I think, at least, they all look great and sound great... (shaky cam car chase discussion aside). And for the most part, they are good fun films...

.. however the Nick Cage remake of Gone in 60 Seconds makes me wonder how much of the look of Bay's films is down to him, and how much is down to the production companies and staff that (Simpson &) Bruckheimer use... as I would have put money on Gone in 60 having been a Michael Bay film when I first saw it.. but IIRC it was directed by Dominic Sena.

Bay has definatley shown his ability to handle big projects, with big budgets and big stars in a way that few others could... we know James Cameron can do epic stuff in terms of scale, budget and length... but with the exception of Terminator 2 I don't really "enjoy" many of his films.. Abyss was good, Aliens was good, T2 was good.. the rest I can leave (Titanic, Avatar)..

As far as the Transformers films go though.. as a fan of the original Marvel comics (and original animated Movie).. the last thing I would grumble about with the films would be the directing, acting or dialogue...
 
Michael Bay tends to make fantastic looking, good fun films...
I'd have let that slide had you not said good.

As far as the Transformers films go though.. as a fan of the original Marvel comics (and original animated Movie).. the last thing I would grumble about with the films would be the directing, acting or dialogue...
:confused: All that is left is plot and the Transformers films forgot about that too.

And for the record: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa is not dialogue.
 
:confused: All that is left is plot and the Transformers films forgot about that too.

If it spent more time focusing on the characters and set-up of the comics, and less time finding excuses to try and include some weak-ass love story, it would have been far better IMO... I don't expect an amazing script from an action film..
 
If it spent more time focusing on the characters and set-up of the comics, and less time finding excuses to try and include some weak-ass love story, it would have been far better IMO... I don't expect an amazing script from an action film..
love story where it doesn't belong is a Michael Bay trademark. As evidence I present everything he has ever done. His largest offense being Pearl Harbor.

I do expect at a minimum a good script, story, etc from an action film. It has been done, thus it can be done. The difference is that films that do it don't have the appearance of a group of planned action scenes with bits of story thrown in between them to justify why they went from one place to another.
 
Here are some pictures my dad took. He works at Kennedy Space Center and they're filming there right now.

DSC00274.jpg

Ferrari 458 Italia, Chevrolet Camaro, Chevrolet Corvette concept(convertible?), and a Mercedes.

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]
DSC00270.jpg

NASCAR again... :ill:

DSC00287.jpg

:sly:

DSC00271.jpg


Here's a video of all the cars
 
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It's frustrating, if a bit more serious Transformers 3 itself, which could only have been blowing away audiences in the same way as the original. It is like to go to one of those chain all-you-can eat buffet: potatoes may over-baked, limp green beans and beef neither hot nor cold, but not where you go hungry.
 
Here's the trailer (Assuming Paramount doesn't remove this either):




Right now, I'm trying to figure out all the cybertronians present in this trailer. I think I spotted Optimus, but am still not sure. The one that is prominently shown is also interesting. I want to say it might be Alpha Trion, but even then I still remain unsure.

For those who absolutely hate the first two films (or Micheal bay for that matter), I suggest you don't even bother with this.
 
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I keep thinking that one shown at the end is Unicron, but I think when you compare the look of Alpha Trion you might actually have something there.

I'm upset this will be the last Transfomers film. I love em all and think there are other things they can explore with the film series.

Shockwave was meant to be the Decepticon guardian of Cybertron, so whats happening with Cybertron. Is it still there or is the fate that Optimus eludes to in Revenge something worse?
 
The lunar circumstances are dubious at best, and at worst, intentionally wrong. The LEM never went into shadow on the moon, and Armstrong was never anywhere near shadow and simply could not have gotten there. The lunar day is weeks, not 20 minutes. The real 60's news clip shown is discussing the command module going into shadow, not the LEM, and not astronauts on the moon. They did not land close enough to walk into shadow, they did not go out of contact from the Earth while on the moon, and they could not have been on the far side.... and if they were on the far side YOU WOULDN'T SEE THE EARTH! If they weren't on the far side, you could see that little crash site with a weak telescope.

I have a sneaky suspicion that they're going to claim that after landing on the moon, the moon rotated into shadow and out of contact with the Earth - which is friggin ridiculous because the moon is tidally locked. The sea of tranquility doesn't face away from the Earth, and it's not walking distance from the far side.

To intentionally splice actual news footage in a way that makes it look like they're saying something else - something supporting this nonsense requires that they knew what actually happened and simply ignored it. This is purposeful misinformation, not ignorance. Thousands of kids will grow up not understanding one of the crowning achievements of humanity as a result - all for what, so they can watch a bad sequel to a terrible movie (I'm not talking about the first one, I own the first one)?

It irks me even more that they've been doing this all along. In the first movie they claim that NASA JPL "crashed" the beagle "rover" on Mars (but it was a cover up). The beagle LANDER, wasn't a rover, and it wasn't NASA, it was the European Space Agency. And then there's Megan Fox's little speech about bumblebee's engine...

What's the goal here? To make sure kids today are as stupid as possible so that they'll keep watching Michael Bay movies? It takes 5 seconds to come up with a real credible scenario for this movie. They could claim that this happened on Apollo 8. Lovell's crew went down to the lunar surface while they were on the far side and examined the crash site, came back up, and nobody knew. It even has the benefit of claiming Lovell was the first man on the moon but nobody knows about it.

That's actually somewhat plausible, and it works with the plot - but no, we can't do that, we have to make stuff up that defies physics and stupefies Americans about the greatest achievement from America.
 
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