Transmission Flip...

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vtecpoppin

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Vtecspollin
There is alot of people that I know that say they know how to flip the tranny, does any 1 know the right way?
 
1. Set a certain final gear as starting point
2. Set "max speed"
3. Set final gear to what you wanted it to be + Set single gear ratios
4. Never again adjust max speed

Info:
max speed​
low -> close gears
high -> tall gears​
final gear numbers​
gearlength2 = gearlength1 * finalgear1/finalgear2
(1-Starting point; 2-Endresult)​
close gears​
long low gears; short high gears; limited speed range; small rpm drops​
tall gears​
short low gears; long high gears; big speed range; big rpm drops​
 
1. Set a certain final gear as starting point
2. Set "max speed"
3. Set final gear to what you wanted it to be + Set single gear ratios
4. Never again adjust max speed

This is the flipped tranny I use
 
There are various ways to carry out the 'Tranny Trick', none of which require wearing womens clothing, thankfully.

The following is how I setup all of my gearboxes, before I carry out any track specific tailoring.
  • Set to default
  • Set Final Gear full right (highest number)
  • Set Top Speed full left (lowest speed)
  • Set individual gears (ignore the actual figures and just look at the incremeantal markers on the slider, treat it as 0-100%, going from left to right)
  • 1st Gear (40%)
  • 2nd Gear (40%)
  • 3rd Gear (50%)
  • 4th Gear (60%)
  • 5th Gear (70%)
  • 6th Gear (80%)
  • Set Final Gear so that the indicated speed in the top right hand corner is 10-15mph higher than the top speed you can achieve at any given track. If you're running at a track where you can draft a lot, then ensure the indicated speed is even higher.

If you have a 5 speed box, ignore 1st gear above. If you have a 7 speed, then set 7th gear to 90%...

{Cy}

Worth reading the rest of the thread...

{Cy}
 
:lol:💡 I remember that thread. Reading the first line gave me a good laugh and a few other peoples posts too.
 
nowadays there is so much to prepare a gearbox, but none compares to this tuning real

see


Hello Guys, today I’ll show you how to setup the gearbox relations for each gear.

Let’s start establishing some hypothesis, the engine’s curve, top speed and climb ability.

Let’s suppose that:

The car uses 205/60 15 tires, it will give us 0.304m as dynamic radius;
2.11m of frontal area and a drag coefficient of 0.31;
The car’s weight is 1250 kg (something like a Honda Civic);
Car’s max torque is 190Nm @4600rpm;
The car needs to climb a 60% ramp with 320 kg more than his normal weight (load);

We have an important relation between torque (in Nm) and power (in KW): (Where T is engine’s torque and N is engine rpm)

Before start to set car’s gears we need to know the forces involved in displacement process, I will talk a little bit about each one of them:

1) Rolling resistance force: Like the name says, it’s a reaction force between tire and ground. It’s a product between a rolling resistance coefficient (that depends on tire and ground) and the normal force in wheel. It’s a simple equation:

2) Aerodynamic resistance: In lower speeds it’s totally inexpressive, but is fundamental to determine car’s top speed. It’s the product between air’s density, car’s frontal area, drag coefficient and the square of car’s speed.

3) Inertia: In higher speeds it’s inexpressive too (for this analysis), but so significant when the car needs to start a movement. It’s the product between rotational inertia coefficient, vehicle’s mass and acceleration.

4) Slope: the most known force, product between mass, gravity and angle’s sine (sen).

Now we know this forces and the relation between power and torque, let’s check the engine’s torque (red) and power (blue) curve:

Now we can start to calculate the gears, beginning with the 5th, I would like my car can reach at least 210km/h and I’ll suppose the car get this speed in engine’s max power point, we call it optimum project. We can setup this speed to occur before or after this point, it will give us more top speed or more acceleration.

The equation is so simple, we sum the aerodynamic resistance and rolling resistance and call it “resistant torque”, this value must to be equal engine’s torque multiplied by gear and differential relation:

Resistant Torque = Engine’s Torque (@6000rpm) x (5th gear x differential)

Let’s choose the 5th gear relation 0.7:1, so the unique “variable” we don’t know is the differential, if we see the parenthesis like just one thing we will find a value for relation and dividing it by 0.7 we have the differential. For this case it’s 4.58:1.

The top speed formula (in m/s) is: (raioDinamico = Dynamic radius, N = rpm),and for this case it’s 215km/h. Next problem now it’s to set 1st gear, defined by our ramp maximum inclination.

Our resistant torque now is rolling resistance plus inertia and slope, in engine’s maximum torque (4650rpm). Solving this relation we have 2.82:1 for first gear.

Now we have first and last gear defined, let’s find the 3 remaining gears. This is the easiest part, there are basically two ways to get it, first one it geometrical method, it consists to setup an equal gap between the gears and it’s used to set up trucks gearboxes relations because of the high number of gears they have. For passenger cars we use progressive method, it gives more acceleration in first gears and more speed in last ones. In progressive method we setup the gears like this: n(i)= [n(i+1)*(2*n(i-1)-n(i))]/n(i-1)

My relations for this gearbox were:

Now we have all gearbox defined and it’s possible to look at some interesting graphics, first of all we have a comparison between resistant torque in each gear and engine’s torque curve (in red). Notice that last curve touches engine’s torque curve at 6000rpm, setting our maximum speed, exactly like we wanted to.

We can see the speed map too, that shows the relation between vehicle’s speed in actual gear and the engine’s RPM:

We could also calculate trative force and show vehicle performance map, but it’s for another post. That’s all for today, if any of you want to see the calculation I did, I can provide you a maple file with it, or the same thing in pdf for who don’t have this software.

Thanks for reading,

Rafael Basilio
 
Thanks for all the help, it cleared up everything what people where saying. I guess they were wrong that is why my cars r running slower, but know they r faster....:)
 
nowadays there is so much to prepare a gearbox, but none compares to this tuning real

see


Hello Guys, today I’ll show you how to setup the gearbox relations for each gear.

Let’s start establishing some hypothesis, the engine’s curve, top speed and climb ability.

Let’s suppose that:

The car uses 205/60 15 tires, it will give us 0.304m as dynamic radius;
2.11m of frontal area and a drag coefficient of 0.31;
The car’s weight is 1250 kg (something like a Honda Civic);
Car’s max torque is 190Nm @4600rpm;
The car needs to climb a 60% ramp with 320 kg more than his normal weight (load);

We have an important relation between torque (in Nm) and power (in KW): (Where T is engine’s torque and N is engine rpm)

Before start to set car’s gears we need to know the forces involved in displacement process, I will talk a little bit about each one of them:

1) Rolling resistance force: Like the name says, it’s a reaction force between tire and ground. It’s a product between a rolling resistance coefficient (that depends on tire and ground) and the normal force in wheel. It’s a simple equation:

2) Aerodynamic resistance: In lower speeds it’s totally inexpressive, but is fundamental to determine car’s top speed. It’s the product between air’s density, car’s frontal area, drag coefficient and the square of car’s speed.

3) Inertia: In higher speeds it’s inexpressive too (for this analysis), but so significant when the car needs to start a movement. It’s the product between rotational inertia coefficient, vehicle’s mass and acceleration.

4) Slope: the most known force, product between mass, gravity and angle’s sine (sen).

Now we know this forces and the relation between power and torque, let’s check the engine’s torque (red) and power (blue) curve:

Now we can start to calculate the gears, beginning with the 5th, I would like my car can reach at least 210km/h and I’ll suppose the car get this speed in engine’s max power point, we call it optimum project. We can setup this speed to occur before or after this point, it will give us more top speed or more acceleration.

The equation is so simple, we sum the aerodynamic resistance and rolling resistance and call it “resistant torque”, this value must to be equal engine’s torque multiplied by gear and differential relation:

Resistant Torque = Engine’s Torque (@6000rpm) x (5th gear x differential)

Let’s choose the 5th gear relation 0.7:1, so the unique “variable” we don’t know is the differential, if we see the parenthesis like just one thing we will find a value for relation and dividing it by 0.7 we have the differential. For this case it’s 4.58:1.

The top speed formula (in m/s) is: (raioDinamico = Dynamic radius, N = rpm),and for this case it’s 215km/h. Next problem now it’s to set 1st gear, defined by our ramp maximum inclination.

Our resistant torque now is rolling resistance plus inertia and slope, in engine’s maximum torque (4650rpm). Solving this relation we have 2.82:1 for first gear.

Now we have first and last gear defined, let’s find the 3 remaining gears. This is the easiest part, there are basically two ways to get it, first one it geometrical method, it consists to setup an equal gap between the gears and it’s used to set up trucks gearboxes relations because of the high number of gears they have. For passenger cars we use progressive method, it gives more acceleration in first gears and more speed in last ones. In progressive method we setup the gears like this: n(i)= [n(i+1)*(2*n(i-1)-n(i))]/n(i-1)

My relations for this gearbox were:

Now we have all gearbox defined and it’s possible to look at some interesting graphics, first of all we have a comparison between resistant torque in each gear and engine’s torque curve (in red). Notice that last curve touches engine’s torque curve at 6000rpm, setting our maximum speed, exactly like we wanted to.

We can see the speed map too, that shows the relation between vehicle’s speed in actual gear and the engine’s RPM:

We could also calculate trative force and show vehicle performance map, but it’s for another post. That’s all for today, if any of you want to see the calculation I did, I can provide you a maple file with it, or the same thing in pdf for who don’t have this software.

Thanks for reading,

Rafael Basilio

Nice write up but 2 things here,

1. What does this have to do with flipping a transmission.

2. This seems to be far more complicated than whats really needed for this game.
 
Its not a write up, it's the link slump posted copied and pasted as if the words are the posters own. Of course Im taking a small leap assuming the poster did not write the original page.

I also agree it is not for this game.
 
Its not a write up, it's the link slump posted copied and pasted as if the words are the posters own. Of course Im taking a small leap assuming the poster did not write the original page.

I also agree it is not for this game.

Yea, I realized that after I posted. Good catch by Slump on the attempted plagiarism if that is indeed the case.
 
It's not an attempt at plagiarism, it's just a copy and paste, he may even be Rafael Basilio.

That being said, he could have just posted a link to it, instead of copy and pasting the contents...

{Cy}
 
Well assuming you can now flip a transmission correctly with all the help listed above.

The best way to set each gear is trial and error. No mathematical equation can account for the speed you will be exiting a hairpin at or the top speed of the track.

So flip it, try it, change it, try it again.
 
What exactly does this accomplish?


Its accomplishes more gearing options, Allowing you to have super tight gear spacing in any speed range you want. So essentially it creates better acceleration through an optimal tall first gear, and tight gear spacing mostly eliminates shift lag.

According to some and not all....

having a higher set of numbers overall on your tranny sheet makes the car more prone to oversteer. There is no proof of this whatsoever (that I know of) except one of the fastest guys that played this game says so. And I notice people online complaining about a car handling differently when they mess with the trans.
 
Last edited:
Good morning gentlemen racers ever imataria, or sign, or something someone plagiarizing, simply put my openiao in relation to this discussion, which already asked several times helps rafael basilio procedure on how to draw up a box of march, and he helped me a lot, not about to serve for the game and very real min else or that there is even the big simulators as an alternative champions uzam research, especially to know the circuit taken time etc. ..
 
There is alot of people that I know that say they know how to flip the tranny, does any 1 know the right way?

I would like to say thanks for all the help on the subject that I need to know... All of you fellow racers give me some good advice.. Hope to see you on the track soon.
 
Its accomplishes more gearing options, Allowing you to have super tight gear spacing in any speed range you want. So essentially it creates better acceleration through an optimal tall first gear, and tight gear spacing mostly eliminates shift lag.

According to some and not all....

having a higher set of numbers overall on your tranny sheet makes the car more prone to oversteer. There is no proof of this whatsoever (that I know of) except one of the fastest guys that played this game says so. And I notice people online complaining about a car handling differently when they mess with the trans.
Higher set of numbers = lower final drive
Lower final drive = less drivetrain loss (at least in GT5)
Less drivetrain loss = quicker acceleration, higher top speed, and harder engine braking. (snap-oversteer on entry, most likely, but also increases wheelspin on exits due to extra "ummmph") :crazy:
 
I guess I should guess both?
I can easily video an increased burnout from a lower final drive setup.
 
I guess I should guess both?
I can easily video an increased burnout from a lower final drive setup.
I don't know, it somehow feels more stable with lower final gear. I'm not sure what happens if you have wheelspin at the exit, but that's normally not how I drive anyway. Gives bad tire wear, you know. :)

It definitely does improve acceleration, don't want to argue about that.
 
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