Transmissions in GT6 (Discussion Question)

  • Thread starter Thread starter tomkat492
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I would just like a final drive upgrade. It is extremely common in real life to swap your 3.31 gears for 4.10's for mustangs for example. NO ONE builds custom tuned transmissions, it just doesn't happen. Also, no one ever builds fully adjustable diffs or suspensions. The tuning aspect of the game is utterly ridiculous really.

As far as affecting pp. There are so many factors involved. How would the game determine how your custom gearing settings would affect your performance and apply that to pp in a relevant and consistent manner? Seems like you're asking a lot. More likely if they factored it, there would be a generic multiplier that would mean almost nothing.
 
Steph290
I'll be honest, I'm not familiar with the term tranny flip, but I understand gearing, and how it affects the power band according to my revs. I didn't always know, but I saw people "tuning their transmission" further than just increasing the top speed or final gear, so I took some time to read some tuning magazines/websites and understand the concept for myself. Now I take advantage (damn I'm using that word a lot) of the fact that I can tune the transmission how I want. You can even tune some of that whining noise out of your vehicle while at it. I've done it for my SRT-10, you would never know it's running a fully custom tranny by listening. Smokes 'em all within the 1/4. :sly:
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Tranny flip is the go-to method of tuning any car for circuit racing and did provide a distinct advantage for some reason, above and beyond just closer gear ratios. In the case of the tranny flip, there was a definite increase in performance from a custom transmission.
 
Steph290
Lighter flywheels allow the car to rev more easily, but for clutch pedal users it also causes the RPMs to drop faster, meaning that if you don't keep on the throttle when shifting you would fall out of the power band easily. Of course, just a fraction of racers use the clutch so that factor is negligible. Either way, acceleration is not dependent only on those two parts, but rather how they are used.
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You don't really have to keep the throttle on, you only have to shift faster, and that is the big advantage of lighter flywheels.
 
f40
They need to fix the shuffle race PP as well. Various old muscle cars have such a low top speed, they just guarantee last place.
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We just need adjustable final drive ratios. No need for a full on race transmisson but, real world optional final drives. 3.27, 3.55, 4.10, 2.73. This would help a lot. Because I like 4speed manuals. I hated adjusting the 5speed race transmission to make 5th gear so long, that I didnt need to use it. A quick option for this before a race start would be a good idea.
 
Whitey093
I would just like a final drive upgrade. It is extremely common in real life to swap your 3.31 gears for 4.10's for mustangs for example. NO ONE builds custom tuned transmissions, it just doesn't happen. Also, no one ever builds fully adjustable diffs or suspensions. The tuning aspect of the game is utterly ridiculous really.

As far as affecting pp. There are so many factors involved. How would the game determine how your custom gearing settings would affect your performance and apply that to pp in a relevant and consistent manner? Seems like you're asking a lot. More likely if they factored it, there would be a generic multiplier that would mean almost nothing.
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05XR8
We just need adjustable final drive ratios. No need for a full on race transmisson but, real world optional final drives. 3.27, 3.55, 4.10, 2.73. This would help a lot. Because I like 4speed manuals. I hated adjusting the 5speed race transmission to make 5th gear so long, that I didnt need to use it. A quick option for this before a race start would be a good idea.
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Haaa. I didnt see this post. Awesome!!
 
Steph290
Lighter flywheels allow the car to rev more easily, but for clutch pedal users it also causes the RPMs to drop faster, meaning that if you don't keep on the throttle when shifting you would fall out of the power band easily. Of course, just a fraction of racers use the clutch so that factor is negligible. Either way, acceleration is not dependent only on those two parts, but rather how they are used.
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But when you disengage the clutch, the engine RPMs will be dictated by gearing and present speed. Presence (or not) in the power band will be determined by gearing, not by the flywheel. To the extent that there is an issue, it will be more that there's a greater driveline shock on disengaging the clutch after downshifting with the lighter flywheel, but that's what heel-toe is for anyway.
 
MrWednesday
But when you disengage the clutch, the engine RPMs will be dictated by gearing and present speed. Presence (or not) in the power band will be determined by gearing, not by the flywheel. To the extent that there is an issue, it will be more that there's a greater driveline shock on disengaging the clutch after downshifting with the lighter flywheel, but that's what heel-toe is for anyway.
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I was over simplifying a possible effect, but in detail works. Thanks for the correction/further explanation.👍
 
It should affect the PP system since a well adjusted transmission can make a huge difference in performance (in some cars).

I'm not a mechanical genius, so I like the transmission options as they are. They are intuitive and you can easily play around with it to get the best performance out of your car.

My only suggestion for PD would be (as many here mentioned before) making automatics drive and sound like such. Also, the transmission whine, although realistic, it is very annoying in street cars. Maybe the noise can be reduced a bit for non-race cars, or mildly tuned cars.

Another thing that I don't like (pretty much since always) is the bland way the shifts occur. It's like every car has DSG's SMG's, F1's and all those fancy robotic transmissions. I think fully manual cars should sound a bit more lively when changing gears. Not necessarily as exaggerated as NFS, but something more in the likes of Forza.
 
Tornado
And I said otherwise... where?
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I asked should an increase in pp show even if the transmission is set to the same gearing as stock. You said, “
Tornado
Yes, because a racing transmission should also lower power loss and notably decrease weight over a stock unit. Especially if the original transmission was an automatic.
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But we know it is not the case for GT5 because it is not reflected in overall weight, so then what can we use to justify increasing the pp for installing a fully customizable transmission?
 
So, in other words, I didn't say otherwise; since I made sure to say that it is what it "should" do in addition to allow for custom gear ratios.
 
I dont think full customisable transmission should change pp and heres why ... unbalance in car building , if any of you know forza your understand what im getting at.

Say you get the full racing tranny right and it cost you 6pp to have that , thats cool right because you can change your gearing problem is the other guys got stock tranny and used his pp for more power now the 20bhp he just got for that 6pp he saved by not using the racing tranny results in one thing , him dusting you every race ...

Only time the tranny users would benefit is on a very few select cars that gearing makes a ridiculous amount of change on (usually cars that make max torque and max bhp at almost top of the max rpm) ie rx-8

Trust me guys pp cost for racing tranny will only cause problems for the pp system

PD have been smart with the pp system be thankful its not like forza's =)
 
I've been humming and hawing over whether I reply to this thread or not because above anything else (save for separate adjustable FD), I've been wanting a transmission that's easier to tune--or at least easier to tune if you have some idea as to what you're doing when selecting ratios. It takes way too long to figure out how to obtain specific ratios (if it can even be done at all) and either a wider range from minimum to maximum or a truly punch-in-the-number sort of selection method is needed. Lastly, if a car comes with a 5-speed and can be given either a preset 5-speed or a preset 6-speed, it should be possible to either select a customizable 5- and 6-speed or to "delete" a gear within the customizable box.

That said, I think the PP system is too flawed (based on my own experiences and what I've read on GTPlanet) to throw something else into the mix.
 
I've got mixed feelings about PP changes related to transmissions. If this were added then there would be a few cars that would be dominant just due to the factory/stock gearbox. That would make the PP very difficult to calculate correctly and fairly. This is one of the issues with Forza, some cars a Trans upgrade may add 20 or more PP where on other cars it may reduce the PP and the result is that those few cars that don't need a gearing change and especially those that reduce the PP when the upgrade is applied are dominant being lighter and/or more powerful than other cars that would be just as competitive if they were not having to drop HP or carry extra weight to make up for the expense of the gearbox. Add to that the fact that many of the stock gear boxes in both Forza and GT are not that accurate and that there is no optional rear gearing nor differences between auto and manual makes for a mess when the PP becomes involved.

I think they did the right thing in making the trans not change the PP, that way any car can have a competitive gearing without having to give something away to get it. PP is based more on Power to Weight and Aero rather than the perceived top speed of the car based on stock gearing. This is much better than the way they hanled the trans upgrades in Forza 3 and 4. Forza 2 did a pretty good job with them, They weren't free in terms of PP but they were not expensive either and costs a similar amount on all cars. That amount being small enough that you could use a race trans in any car you wanted for somewhere around 2 PI, where on 3 and 4 it could be between -2 and +30 PI
 
Old thread but still relevant. There are 2 problems with adding PP to a custom transmission:

1) No other suspension or drivetrain components add PP to a vehicle, regardless of their impact affecting vehicle acceleration, handling, or transfer of power from engine to drive wheels. Downforce is also not calculated into PP, which can affect cornering & top speeds more than the transmission itself.

2) There is no way to quantify the amount of performance the custom transmission can give, since it has unlimited settings. You can make transmissions that work on both low speed tracks as well as high speed tracks, or a mixture of the two. There is always a trade-off of acceleration for top speed and vice versa. The only variable for the transmission is the track you're racing on. And yes, the difference between a good custom and a bad stock transmission can add up to seconds lost per lap, but there is no way to accurately measure the faults of the transmission without first racing.
 
Wolfe


Maybe someday there will no longer be anything for Gran Turismo or Forza to learn from Enthusia.
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Your AMAZING GRAN TURISMO FACT OF THE DAY™

Once Konami disassembled the Enthusia Professional Racing team, many of them moved to Polyphony Digital. Most important guy was Enthusia's Head of the Physics - Yutaka Ito - who joined PD during the Prologue development as main associate to Akihiko Tan.

Yutaka Ito works for Polyphony for years now and IIRC he is involved in the AI programming.

Which is a bit shame, since his work on physics for the EPR was a decade ahead of his time.
 
GT's PP-system follows a pretty simple formula from what you can determine by its behaviour. It includes engine power and torque, weight, some factor for traction (could be derived from power/weight ratio; some cars actually lose PPs when adding power beyond a certain point), and probably some base value for each car (calculated from what we can only guess as some seem to be far off their real performance).

What it doesn't include anymore, but previously did, is e.g. downforce, tyres and other upgrades which do not affect engine power itself. I think a very good argument can be made for the exclusion of downforce and tyres, as the performance gains of downforce depend on the track, and better tyres have different effects on each car and with each setup.

With other tuning parts like transmission it's tricky to include them in a PP-formula, because again, their effect will depend on the car. Some of these parts will have a huge effect on a low-powered car, while almost nothing changes for a car that already had a similar part in its stock configuration. That's an argument against introducing a factor to multiply the PP-figure with. A constant will be too general though as well. I think PD simply opted not to include those parts in the PP-formula as the alternative was too time-consuming to be done properly. As we know, GT6 was rushed out incomplete, so making the PPs more accurate for over 1.000 cars probably wasn't on top of their list. And for simplicity reasons, it was probably the right choice for the time being.
 
Transmission NEEDS to be calculated into the PP numbers because it's what allows high rpm/low torque engines to be dominate. Cars with those engines have very high ratios to make up the lack of torque from the engine. Since PP only takes torque from the engine (rather than involving the gear ratios), those cars can have much higher HP than cars with high engine torque. You can compare the two C6 LM cars at the same PP and weight, the LFA vs. Anything in 550pp, the 905 or 787 vs. Anything in LMP/Group C, etc.
 

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