tsukuba times real vs game

[Scaff]

I am sorry but I don't agree. It is "a game". Like somebody, I think on another forum, compared GT4 ring and the real ring by playing 2 video with the same car. You can brake a lot later in GT4 than in real live, so that point you stated, about braking point, is not really accurate. If somebody lives close to the ring and learn it through GT4 and then he/she goes out to try the ring in real live, he/she is going to have an accident for sure.
Because of the, not really accurate physics of GT4, you can "hit" the apex later or sooner and still get good times.
About the racing line, mmm, you could be right about that, I agree
Most important thing in driving any vehicle is looking were you go . You can't do that with any game because it is on a screen and not in real 3D. I think that in a few years you will have real simulators (like flightsims to train pilots). You will sit in a real car (that will chake like a real car) with viewing screens around the car, which will give you the feeling to be inside the sim. In this cars you can look were you go.
As for "feeling " the car, mmm, not really accurate as well. Besides looking were you are driving, feeling the car is also very, very important. Real drivers "feel" their cars with their body and not like GT4 with wheel FF.

So, I stand by my statement that it has nothing (nothing is maybe too harsh ) to do with real racing. You just sit in a car seat (or whatever), watching a flat screen, no peripheral view, no moving platform and only 2 plastic pedals, not really realistic. There are so many "pedal" techniques, you can't even learn because you only have 2 of them and not really accurate as well.
My friend knows Alonso (from his carting days) and my friend told me that Alonso said that these "games" are nice but that is all. The only thing real race car driver use these game is for memorising the tracks.
As for just driving around the track, yes i agree, GT4 has some relation to the real thing ===> throttle, brakes, steering wheel and a shifter (all automatic, because you don't have a clutch). GT4 is just too arcadish!!! I think that enthusia will be better and more realistic than GT4

Last thing: maybe I was a little harsh on saying that it has nothing to do with the real thing but i wanted to warn the dreamers on this forum and the youth on this forum whom don't have their driving licences yet. There are always people who are used to drive in GT4 and think that they are "the real thing", they'll get an accident for sure (in real, life I mean)

Did you actually read my post beyond the bit you quoted? As you just seem to have on the whole repeated what I said.

I stand in neither camp with regard to the realisim (or otherwise of the GT series), as I said in my post it teaches the basics, the concepts of driving.

The fact that in a real life track driving situation, you need to think about the factors I have mentioned, I did not say (or imply) that the brake points, etc in GT4 were realistic, or that matching lap times was realistic.

I said thatthe basics were in place and as such the game can be considered a 'sim', but I also said that no 'sim' on any platform is capable of recreating true track or street driving.

Don't hold your breath with regard to Enthusia, the demo I have played in not that much of an improvement over GT4, and in my opinion (and this could start something) FWD cars are nowhere near as well modeled (from a physics point of view) as GT4.


I'm a trainer in the motor industry by trade, and have used GT3 (and in the near future will use GT4) on product launch training sessions to get people used to the basics, before letting them loose on the real thing. As I said, its not a perfect teaching tool or sim, but it is a long way from being nothing like driving or racing.

 

[kikie]

in my opinion (and this could start something) FWD cars are nowhere near as well modeled (from a physics point of view) as GT4.

YEP, I agree entirely

Did you actually read my post beyond the bit you quoted? As you just seem to have on the whole repeated what I said.

Sorry about that English is not my first language and I think I misread your post.

 

[WorksAccess]

nordschleife is far from real!!!! i think not?

touch any of those raised kerbs on the real track and your off the track!! also its much more undulated the GT4 version of the track is much more flatter.. grip is much better than in real life too...

 

[exhorst]

heres how good a simulation GT4 really is: I read in a magazine here that the Aston Martin DB9 Coupe (with its standard tyres) laps the Nurburgring Nordschleife in 7 minutes, 51 seconds - i took my completely stock DB9 Coupe in GT4 with Road tyres and no joke i did a 7.51.488 (on free run with DFP). i drove the car like you would in real life, eg. braking before you would get air in GT4, coz IRL it would screw the suspension, and most importantly i stayed away from the curbs that in real life would spin u out

 

[ZeratulSG]

Okay, somebody said it earlier in this thread, but nobody else picked up on it.

Fear.

This, to me, it the single biggest factor affecting the realism of any driving sim. You are not, at any point in time, afraid of losing control of the car. You don't want to, but only because it'll mess up your lap/race, not because it'll mess up your body. With the exception of the first few times you flew down the straight at Sarthe in a GT car, adrenaline plays a very small role too. The "fear factor" (sorry) will affect your laptimes as, for example, you will not throw the car wildly into 130R at Suzuka and hang on for dear virtual life, but will rather attack the corner in a much more controlled fashion (braking earlier, maintaining more traction through the turn, etc.).

The second most important factor missing is seat feedback (or G's as someone else mentioned). It's one of the big three of sensory inputs when driving IMO, the other two being the steering wheel (which we have semi-realistically) and your eyes. Without feeling how the car behaves from the seat of your pants, and without the fear and adrenaline urging caution, you are of course capable of significantly faster laptimes.

Then there are the other small (yet significant) realism elements not modeled by GT4, like marbles and track condition (and car condition). I just played GTR over the weekend with my DFP, and I have to say I was impressed by how close the two games are, but the added realism in elements such as overall grip level etc. made GTR more challenging than GT4. For example, under hard braking (such as the bus stop chicane at Spa) they have modeled the bumps in the track in the braking zone. Coupled with this, the ever decreasing front grip under heavy braking makes the car "loosens up" toward the turning point, something that GT4 doesn't model very well. This is just one example, but in a sense this helps to convey a small part of the fear factor (car damage helps too).

All in all, I felt that GT4 was pretty damn close. The best way I can describe the difference (or the shortfall if you will) is that the cars in GT4 seem to float a little, but perhaps this is more a function of the low level of modeled track detail than the car physics.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[kikie]

Okay, somebody said it earlier in this thread, but nobody else picked up on it.

Fear.

Didn't mention "fear", because I only wanted to discuss the "hardware and sotware" part of GT4 (realisme) ==> meaning, monitor (limited view, even with surround gaming, 3 monitors), steering wheel, pedals and lack off a descend simulator (moving platform, without this you can't "feel" what the car is doing).

heres how good a simulation GT4 really is: I read in a magazine here that the Aston Martin DB9 Coupe (with its standard tyres) laps the Nurburgring Nordschleife in 7 minutes, 51 seconds - i took my completely stock DB9 Coupe in GT4 with Road tyres and no joke i did a 7.51.488 (on free run with DFP). i drove the car like you would in real life, eg. braking before you would get air in GT4, coz IRL it would screw the suspension, and most importantly i stayed away from the curbs that in real life would spin u out

Very good.
But the whole point of the last couple of post: if you are not a real experienced race car driver, you will not get the same result in real live as you would in GT4.
It is easy to get good laptimes using a "game", just sitting in your comfortable chair, knowing that nothing can happen to you. Another example. Laptimes between games are even different. Last month I tried to get the same laptimes in GTR (on the same track and the same car) as in GT4. GTR is much harder and I was faster in GT4 (couple of seconds) than in GTR (I am using the speed7 from BRD). Were is the logic in that, both sims claims to have accurate physics and accurate tracks.
I read on another forum that a race car driver was asked to try out GTR. He liked it but it wasn't like the real thing, he said. He said that racing in real life was easier than in GTR.
Don't know if I am allowed to post a link to that other forum.
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=195606 : read the posts from y2khardtop. He is a real racer.
moderator remove this link if it is not allowed!!!

 

[exhorst]

Very good.
But the whole point of the last couple of post: if you are not a real experienced race car driver, you will not get the same result in real live as you would in GT4.
It is easy to get good laptimes using a "game", just sitting in your comfortable chair, knowing that nothing can happen to you.

yeah u r right, i was just showing people how close GT4 can be to real life, i know it will not be the same in real life, the closest thing for real life for me has been go-karting, only weeks ago, the first time i went go karting, i came first out of 10 experienced drivers out of 3 races, it was then i understood the g-forces and things that happen to you when competition driving, but i think GT4 and the Driving Force Pro wheel definetely helped me do go-karting well, the understeer and oversteer in GT4 is very accurate IMO, because those karts i went in went about 70km/h

 

[kikie]

@ exhorst

I think you have an hidden talent. Not many "drivers" can say that. 👍

GT4 is kind of realistic but it is still not quite 100% realistic. If true, Enthusia is more realistic than GT4.
I think that you can speak of real physics if you for example: take the ring, choose a car (lets say a skyline R34) and take a spin on the ring in real life. Lets say that you finish in 12 min 30 sec (in real live). If you do the same thing with GT4 and you finish at the same time, you can talk about real physics. If your time in GT4 is faster and it probably will, you can't talk about real physics.It is just impossible to get the same times in GT4 as real drivers. Like someone on this forum mentioned: take the GT4 F1 and drive on Suzuka. Most people get the same time as real F1 drivers, mmm, not really realistic hey, if this is the case then everyody can become F1 drivers and beat the real top F1 drivers!!!!! Hehe, don't believe that GT4 is really that realistic.
I will not change my opinion about GT4 not being really realistic (like I stated in the previous posts). You can only speak of real physics if your time in GT4 is a lot slower than the time experienced driver get in real live. If you achieve the same time in GT4 with the same car on the same track as race drivers, then (it is my believe), you can't talk about real physics. Real physics means that everybody who finishes at the same times as real drivers are super talented
A little bit of topic: flightsims to train real pilots, do you really think that they can fly these flightsims from the first time, no way!!! They have to practice and practice and .... to become real pilots (aeroplanes). ===> that's realisme, not GT4 but then again GT4 is a game, not a professional sim.

PD can't implement 100% real physics. Only a handfull will buy this game and that is not the intention of PD. They are still develping these game to make a profit.

 

[ZeratulSG]

It is easy to get good laptimes using a "game", just sitting in your comfortable chair, knowing that nothing can happen to you.

My point exactly.

Another example. Laptimes between games are even different. Last month I tried to get the same laptimes in GTR (on the same track and the same car) as in GT4. GTR is much harder and I was faster in GT4 (couple of seconds) than in GTR (I am using the speed7 from BRD). Were is the logic in that, both sims claims to have accurate physics and accurate tracks.

Okay, to me the logic in that is GTR is, as you said, harder than GT4, and as such it is more difficult to achieve stellar laptimes because there are more factors affecting difficulty. Which track was it BTW, none of the tracks that ship with GTR are in GT4 IIRC.

 

[ZeratulSG]

GT4 is kind of realistic but it is still not quite 100% realistic. If true, Enthusia is more realistic than GT4.
I think that you can speak of real physics if you for example: take the ring, choose a car (lets say a skyline R34) and take a spin on the ring in real life. Lets say that you finish in 12 min 30 sec (in real live). If you do the same thing with GT4 and you finish at the same time, you can talk about real physics. If your time in GT4 is faster and it probably will, you can't talk about real physics.It is just impossible to get the same times in GT4 as real drivers. Like someone on this forum mentioned: take the GT4 F1 and drive on Suzuka. Most people get the same time as real F1 drivers, mmm, not really realistic hey, if this is the case then everyody can become F1 drivers and beat the real top F1 drivers!!!!!

Read my earlier post. Your logic is flawed and assumes the only factors affecting laptimes are how well you drive the car "mathematically". The fact is that GT4 is almost as close to the real thing as can be achieved with only a TV screen and a FF wheel. The reason people in GT4 can achieve similar or even faster F1 laptimes than real life is because of the missing real-life factors in the game: no G's or seat feedback (unless you have one kickass setup ), no real fear factor. Basically these people have learned the theory of driving an F1 car and know how to apply it in-game. They don't have to worry about their internal organs being slammed all over their chest cavity, or losing 2 liters of body water to sweat, or snatching the rumble strip into 130R and hitting the wall at 150 km/h, or...you get the idea. Being as good as Michael Schumacher isn't just about knowing the car and the racing line.

 

[[SS]Ares]

hello everybody

when i was just doing nothing and buying used cars for fun i bumped on the honda s2000, thougt lets tuned and take a spin at the tsukuba . so tuned and when to tsukuba. did a little fine tuning and took it for a spin

You tuned it, thats your fault, try it completly stock, and on Normal Comfort, or Normal Road tires...

 

[mashoutposse]

Don't forget that the track learning process is MUCH longer and far more involved in real life -- no "ghost" replay, no easy restart, no reset button if you go too fast and end up in the wall, etc.

It probably takes a real race driver 50 times as long to learn a track.

 

[kikie]

Your logic is flawed

I am trying to find out what "flawed" means, hehe. If it means what I think (bad for me) than you are right.
Yesterday evening, I was talking to a professional about car control and stuff. Suddenly he mentioned GT4 and GTR. I was curious for what he had to say. I have to revise my opinion . I was wrong, GT4 is more realistic than I thought but he said (these are the words of a professional, not mine) that the weight stransfer is not really up to date in GT4. He ment that it is not really like it should be and I believe him if you know what he can do with a car in real life. He also said that GT4 is very, very good for learing how to drive on a track ==> ideal line and stuff (like Scaff already stated), as long as you don’t skid (because of the not really up to date weight transfer (again his words, don't quote me on that). I admit, I was wrong about the most things. Everybody disregard my previous posts, execpt for the “feeling and view thing” and ofcourse the fear thing. He also said that GTR was far more realistic than GT4.For what's worth it: I really like and enjoy the GT series (I always have)
Now I understand where I was wrong. GT4 is kind of realitic (more than I thought, I was too narrow minded). Scaff is right for using GT3 and in the future GT4 “on product launch training sessions”. ZeratulSC is also right.
I am going to shut up and stop wasting (how is it called in English) "post place"

bye

 

[ZeratulSG]

Now I understand where I was wrong. GT4 is kind of realitic (more than I thought, I was too narrow minded). Scaff is right for using GT3 and in the future GT4 “on product launch training sessions”. ZeratulSC is also right.
I am going to shut up and stop wasting (how is it called in English) "post place"

Hey don't be so hard on yourself

It's always interesting to hear feedback from experienced RL racers, that pretty much confirms my belief about GT4 and GTR (though I don't know that I'd call GTR "far more" realistic than GT4 )

I was watching those David Farmer clips (was that on this thread? ) of Laguna Seca and Infineon and another point crept into my head: we as GT4 racers also don't have to worry about nudging the wall. IRL even a gentle nudge, coming out of a turn too wide for example, can cause serious damage to a car, but we can get away with it. And for everyone who's gonna pipe up with "I don't touch any walls" let me respond by saying that that may be true, but you're able to be much more committed to the corners and much more on the edge because you know that if you DO make a mistake, you can get away with a nudge (rather than ending your race).

 

[Skant]

Hey don't be so hard on yourself

It's always interesting to hear feedback from experienced RL racers, that pretty much confirms my belief about GT4 and GTR (though I don't know that I'd call GTR "far more" realistic than GT4 )

I was watching those David Farmer clips (was that on this thread? ) of Laguna Seca and Infineon and another point crept into my head: we as GT4 racers also don't have to worry about nudging the wall. IRL even a gentle nudge, coming out of a turn too wide for example, can cause serious damage to a car, but we can get away with it. And for everyone who's gonna pipe up with "I don't touch any walls" let me respond by saying that that may be true, but you're able to be much more committed to the corners and much more on the edge because you know that if you DO make a mistake, you can get away with a nudge (rather than ending your race).

I'm an experienced RL racer myself. And I use GT4 to practice when I'm not out on the real track. I have a simulation of my RL car setup in the game (the 1996 Corvette Grand Sport with some mods).

Your right about the wall thing. You're taking big risks when you push the car all the way on a real track, and those risks rarely pay off. If you're really on the ragged edge, you're going to biff it from time to time. And you can't afford that. Part of racing is finding the perfect moderation between risk and speed.

Ever notice the guys that consistently win 'only because they're lucky that the faster guys crashed out'? The luck is actually the other way around... the guys that are driving past their abilities are lucky if they finish, but they generally win when they survive. It's called 'checkers or wreckers'. More balls than skill.

What has even more influence on lap times than the indestructable fenders in GT4 is the indestructable suspension and undercarriage of the car. It makes creepy noises and feels nasty when you go over a berm hard in RL. You can feel the shock roll through the car. And I can tell you that when you bottom the car on the pavement at 120mph, it makes a horrible noise to go along with that shower of sparks. You'll do these things quite regularly every lap in GT4... but if you do them like that in RL, your car won't last more than a few laps. It may not even last one.

In fact, it makes sense in GT4 to always set the ride height at minimum in order to produce the best handling. The only reason for ride height is preventing damage to the undercarriage of the car... and if it can't be hurt, might as well slam it.

So yeah... the lack of damage modelling does make for some nonrealism in lap times.

Nevertheless, it's an awefully good simulator. And I have to say... I've learned reflexes from playing the game that saved me in RL when the car went sideways at high speed. I'd never encountered the particular sliding scenario before in RL, but I had several times in the game. And I was glad (and amazed) that the response to it I'd learned in the game really worked to save it in RL exactly as the simulation showed it would. It wasn't until later that it even occured to me that I'd made a counter move that I'd only ever done in simulation before. And not only that, but the first several times I'd encountered that scenario in simulation, I had completely lost the car and crashed badly. So that gives me an idea of what might have happened in RL if I hadn't been practicing with GT...

This is why I just roll my eyes at people who claim that GT4 has a broken physics engine.

- Skant

 

[kikie]

@ Skant

Have you tried "Enthusia Professional racing"? If so, how is it compared with GT4?? (realisme I mean)

 

[Hokie]

Has anyone else seen this video? It is from early 2004, long before GT4 was released. It shows a Mazda RX-8 driving Tsukuba in real live vs. someone driving Tsukuba in GT4. As you can see the lap times are identical.

http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0C0V87V8GIQQZ23HCK1S7HL57R

(Sorry about the YouSendIt account, I don't have anywhere to host the file)

 

[aprilia4life]

I raced motorbikes, and during racing you pushed yourself to the limit. I have crashed quite a few times (both on and off track). Car racing is safer then bike racing (no "cage" to protect you), and a car is a bit more forgiving (the car spins, the bike falls over) and bike racers push it.

So i would say that fear is a load of crap... can anyone say isle of man? And the only fear you would have is from the damage to the bike (I highsided at 120kmph and walked away, the bike took some fixing though). Bikes are quite a bit easier to fix and seem to be able to handle crashes though... professional racers are freaking psyco's, when you know the machine as well as they do, fear has NOTHING to do with it.

 

[Skant]

I raced motorbikes, and during racing you pushed yourself to the limit. I have crashed quite a few times (both on and off track). Car racing is safer then bike racing (no "cage" to protect you), and a car is a bit more forgiving (the car spins, the bike falls over) and bike racers push it.

So i would say that fear is a load of crap... can anyone say isle of man? And the only fear you would have is from the damage to the bike (I highsided at 120kmph and walked away, the bike took some fixing though). Bikes are quite a bit easier to fix and seem to be able to handle crashes though... professional racers are freaking psyco's, when you know the machine as well as they do, fear has NOTHING to do with it.

You know... you're reinforcing my belief that motorcyclists are all psycho. Most of the car racers I've met want to go fast by figuring out the best line and analyzing the situation. Whereas the motorcyclists I've met seem to all be sensation and danger junkies... the only reason they want to go faster is so that they can be in more danger of dying, as far as I can tell. More danger = More thrill.

Safety devices like roll cages would eliminate the fear of death (ie. fun) for these guys. That's why they chose motorcycles in the first place.

It's an interesting phenomina, I think. Very different attitudes. And naturally, they both think they're on a higher level than the other.

One thing is very obvious though... the casualty rate for motorcyclists is alarming. And it often comes in the form of spinal injuries and paralysis. Too many of the motorcyclists I've known ended up crippled for life.

Personally, I think roll cages are a wonderful thing. I like going fast, but I'm not fond of fearing for my life.

- Skant

 

[ZeratulSG]

Ever notice the guys that consistently win 'only because they're lucky that the faster guys crashed out'? The luck is actually the other way around... the guys that are driving past their abilities are lucky if they finish, but they generally win when they survive. It's called 'checkers or wreckers'. More balls than skill.

LOL I love that term, "checkers or wreckers"! And it perfectly described a friend of mine who I play GT4 with frequently...a "wrecker" of note.

What has even more influence on lap times than the indestructable fenders in GT4 is the indestructable suspension and undercarriage of the car. It makes creepy noises and feels nasty when you go over a berm hard in RL. You can feel the shock roll through the car. And I can tell you that when you bottom the car on the pavement at 120mph, it makes a horrible noise to go along with that shower of sparks. You'll do these things quite regularly every lap in GT4... but if you do them like that in RL, your car won't last more than a few laps. It may not even last one.

Yeah, we don't necessarily need visual damage modeling in GT, just a schematic and physics-modeled damage to essential parts of the engine and drivetrain.

Nevertheless, it's an awefully good simulator. And I have to say... I've learned reflexes from playing the game that saved me in RL when the car went sideways at high speed. I'd never encountered the particular sliding scenario before in RL, but I had several times in the game. And I was glad (and amazed) that the response to it I'd learned in the game really worked to save it in RL exactly as the simulation showed it would. It wasn't until later that it even occured to me that I'd made a counter move that I'd only ever done in simulation before. And not only that, but the first several times I'd encountered that scenario in simulation, I had completely lost the car and crashed badly. So that gives me an idea of what might have happened in RL if I hadn't been practicing with GT...

Hey you should write to PD and Sony about this one, I'm sure they'd love the good press for GT4! I've also noticed that my understanding and overall "feel" of the car has improved since playing the GT series when driving IRL (though I don't race on track, I often try to push my road car in lean traffic to see what it, and I, can do). It's great to hear of a RL race story where GT4 actually helped.

This is why I just roll my eyes at people who claim that GT4 has a broken physics engine.

Don't get me started

 

[ZeratulSG]

I'm an experienced RL racer myself. And I use GT4 to practice when I'm not out on the real track. I have a simulation of my RL car setup in the game (the 1996 Corvette Grand Sport with some mods).

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask: have you played GTR yet?

 

[BlackNSX]

I have BMI DVD at Tsukuba, the main difference was on the 3rd corner (right hand turn) i almost have two wheels on the grass to keep the speed up, where as obviously in real life you wouldn't throw a car about like that in fear of getting it damaged.

-Rob

 

[lazydog]

You know... you're reinforcing my belief that motorcyclists are all psycho. Most of the car racers I've met want to go fast by figuring out the best line and analyzing the situation. Whereas the motorcyclists I've met seem to all be sensation and danger junkies... the only reason they want to go faster is so that they can be in more danger of dying, as far as I can tell. More danger = More thrill.

This might be right for very few maniacs. Yet most motorcyclists are very sensible and cautious drivers, at least the ones I know. There are some however, who often drive too fast and risky. Yet the reason for their driving style is not because they like danger but because they don't know (or realize) how dangerous it is what they are doing. Some of them end up in the hospital to learn about these dangers the hard way.

 

[RC45]

Yet again I seealmost everyone is missing the points of "how real the game is".

If Driver A, drives a Car B around Track C and gets in time of T in real life... then that same driver takes a modelled Car B around a modelled Track C and gets a time of T in a game - you can say that the game is a close proximation of real life.

If Driver A is a god, like say Schummi... and the game TRUELY was as good as real life, and Driver A made a 1m30s lap of this certain track, you would expect a rank amatuer Driver B to run a 2 or 3 minute lap in a high powered car they were not familiar with - say a 900hp 500kg F1 car - if thy were lucky enoughto get around the first hairpin without spinning out.

So when this couch potato Driver B grabs a GAME and posts a 1m29.5s time on Track C and claims that the game is true to life because the lap times are close to reality - I call BS... Bull Sheister... BULL SCHEISTER... all the game did (as has been previously posted) was take CERTAIN elements of real life and put them together in a reasonable facsimile of life.

If the game truely was real life like you would need to be a Schummi to post times like his.

Having said this, I do recognize that the games has a realistic representation of car capabilities in relation to each other - so a FF undrsteers, and a FR oversteers etc.

I have been mucking abotu with Forza and Enthusia for the last couple of days, and when you line GT4, Forza and Enthusia up - they are still games, fun driving games with realistic traits and and some life like elements - but lets just get real and quit stating that these games are an exact duplicate of race car/street car driving/racing - they are not.

Sure the modelling of the Z06 in Forza and GT4 (haven't found it in Enthusia yet) is close to my car - but only in the context of how it differs in relation to other cars I am familiar with - nothing more.

The fact that I was able to put in a world record beating lap at Le Sarthe on only my 3rd llap ever in a Group C car - while waiting for the pizza delivery - should be proof enough that this GAME is no simulator..

 

[lazydog]

The fact that I was able to put in a world record beating lap at Le Sarthe on only my 3rd llap ever in a Group C car - while waiting for the pizza delivery - should be proof enough that this GAME is no simulator..

You must pay attention to the tyres when doing hot laps in GT4. The tyres (sports and racing slicks) are modelled so that they give you unrealistically more grip than real tyres. Besides that, the car physics are very good, at least in most situations.

What really differs from real world driving is the method of control. No real car is driven with a thing like these DualShock-Controllers. This is the main problem concerning most driving simulators: The user interface. I've observed many people who can drive, for instance, a Golf IV on the road without any problems. Yet in GT4 (or other games) they fly off the track on the first turn ... even when going at VERY LOW speeds. And that's just because of these tiny (and totally unrealistic) DS2 controllers. They do not, in any way, reflect real world controls. Even a DFP differs from real steering controls in many ways.

Once one has mastered the "method of control" though (which takes a LONG time), the driving experience moves to rather realistic levels.

 

[mbavaria30s]

but lets just get real and quit stating that these games are an exact duplicate of race car/street car driving/racing - they are not.

you're a missing the point.

omglol itz not r prfektz repraznTASHUN so evry1 dei iz juz a gaem lolz.


reading is fantastic.