Tune: TT Coupe 3.2 Quattro '03 (Ready for final feedback)

[f611en-6nge1]

My final tune, 2003 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro - 500PP

***Sorry about the bad last tune. Never tune while half asleep, and use a few different courses just to make sure it's alright. Much more stable now. I still feel a bit of unbalance transitioning from throttle to brake mid turn. It may just be me, let me know if you feel it, I'll correct it as needed***

Auto
Oil Change
Front Aero, bumper
Rear Aero, spoiler option number 1

weight Reduction
Stage 3
Hood (fiberglass)
Window
Engine
Stage 3
Tuned ECU
Intake
Manifold
Racing Filter
Exhaust
Manifold
Catalytic
Titanium Racing
Turbo
None
Transmission
Customizable 6 Speed
Drive train
Twin Plate
Semi-Racing
Driveshaft
Center Diff
LSD
Suspension
Custom
Tires
Sport Hard (S1)

ABS = 1
everything else off

Tune

Weight Adjustment
Ballast +80kg / +50 split
= 1311kg / 53% front

Aero
Down force 0 front / +5 rear

LSD
Torque Split - 25/75
Front LSD - 7/5/6
Rear LSD - 12/12/16

Gearing
1st - 2.874 2nd - 2.097
3rd - 1.605 4th - 1.282
5th - 1.068 6th - 0.927
final - 4.070
Top speed155mph **note, top speed left default, actuall top speed shows 156mph**

Suspension
Ride Hight - Front: -20 Rear: -20
Spring Rate- Front: 9.3 Rear: 10.1
Extention- Front: 5 Rear: 4
Compression- Front: 4 Rear: 3
Anti-roll Bars- Front: 3 Rear: 4

Camber- Front: 1.3 Rear: 0.3
Toe Angle- Front: -0.5 Rear: -0.10
Brakes- Front: 5 Rear: 6

Result
Max Power: 382hp
Weight: 1311kg
PP: 500

**Note, performance parts may need to be worked with as engine breaks in**

 

[BolverkGTM]

Did you add Chassis Reinforcement (aka Rigidity Improvement)? That's kinda important for testers to know.

 

[f611en-6nge1]

I did, sorry about that

 

[LineR32]

My car is at 505PP with the best parts fitted, I had to take off the air filter to get it down to 499PP. That's with the weight added to it.

 

[Onboy123]

One thing:

Transmission:
1st - 2.874 2nd - 2.097
3rd - 1.605 4th - 1.282
5th - 1.068 6th - 0.927
final - 4.138 max speed showing 153mph

What's the top speed setting on the bottom? 160something mph, I'm guessing?

 

[BolverkGTM]

One thing:


What's the top speed setting on the bottom? 160something mph, I'm guessing?

The default. Should be 155.

 

[Onboy123]

The default. Should be 155.

Point is it would help to note that down as well, since you should always assume that the person on the other end of the screen/reply/whatever is an idiot. The clearer a tune is to read, the better, really.

 

[BolverkGTM]

Point is it would help to note that down as well, since you should always assume that the person on the other end of the screen/reply/whatever is an idiot. The clearer a tune is to read, the better, really.

Can't argue with that. I just finished testing the car at Deep Forest. 1:26.040

The problem is I can't really review this car just yet because I don't drive any TTs nor do I run Deep Forest often, so I need to challenge it with my touge car, which is also restricted to 500pp. Let's see how this turns out...

EDIT: Okay, my FD3S RX-7 tuned for LOTS ran 1:25.062 at Deep Forest Raceway. That's almost a full second difference in times. Something I can note about the TT is how nasty the understeer can be. The TT is very stable, but the trade off for that stability isn't making the car as quick in the corners as it should aim to be in the 500pp class.

I'm sorry to say that I can't give you any tuning advice because I don't do it, but somebody probably could going off of what I said, plus what anyone else has to add about the car when they finish testing it. I gave both cars 11 laps around Deep Forest, which was plenty for me to compare them.

 

[JohnyPiston]

I will give it a shot ...I have some spare time. I will give feedback in an hour or so. For testing I prefer the Nordschleife. I hope that's ok with you and the tune? Or do you prefer Deep Forest?

 

[JohnyPiston]

OK. I tested using Deep Forest. Timewise the car makes around the same time as I get with my 500 PP cars that I used for comparison (Honda Integra Type R '03 and Mazda Roadster RS '07). The thing is, though, it feels somewhat understeery, floaty and vague. With my cars I could feel little bumps on the road ...with this one I could not. That made it difficult to get a sense for the corner speeds especially at the end of the straight.
In my opinion your setup is good ...but you need to work on the feel of the car. With better feel I might have taken the corners at more appropriate speeds and maybe avoided some of the understeer ...if speed is what caused it.
As a point of interest ...the Mazda Roadster RS (NC) '07 is awesome! I have driven one in anger in RL and it shares an interesting characteristic with its virtual counterpart and that is this: Throw it into a corner in a rough fashion and you get oversteer. But the oversteer is SOOOO gentle ...its like its happening in slow motion and is easily controllable! I have not driven all the cars in GT5 so I have no idea if others do this, but all I can tell you is that your tune has this wonderful characteristic ...this slow motion oversteer thing that, while natural, has the knack of making you feel like a Pro! Well done on getting that right ...

 

[f611en-6nge1]

Sorry about the setting mixup, I'll have to see what I missed. Though, I was really looking for some input to the overall feel of the suspension.

Thank you for trying it out. I'll have to work on the turn in, I think that might coincide with the vague feeling. Maybe I'll post any changed I make.

As a side note, I wonder if taking off the chassis stiffening will correct the feel.

 

[f611en-6nge1]

I played around with the tune some tonight and got it to where I still feel it is stable, though has a little bit less front push accelerating out of the corners.

Edited original post

I can't quite get the rear as loose as I planned without giving up the stability. Short wheelbase car I guess and I want to keep it as more of a consistent car than something that will set the best lap.

 

[Onboy123]

Ok, tested the tune, I'm going to need more time with it though.

First things first, at 100kg @ +50 ballast position, the car has a 53/47 weight distribution, so maybe you're running a bit more ballast or just had a typo in the tune?

Anyway, Deep Forest, it does a 1:27.336 in my hands, but then again, I don't do Deep Forest, so that time is meaningless to me. In terms of the drive, it's…I don't know, actually. It seems fairly confused about what it wants to be:

- The car grips well when you first get into it, with maybe a bit of understeer on the high speed stuff, but when you start pushing, it seems to want to either oversteer or understeer, depending on the corner. It seems to want to grip one moment, then change its mind and start sliding on all 4s the next.

- The car seems to "lean" on the outside front tyres a lot, as that tyre is often in the red zone on corner entry, which is fine, but not brilliant if the tyre wear is turned on.

- I'd say that the front LSD settings are too low, try raising the front Accel to 15 or higher to see if the understeer will go away. Off throttle (if I'm not mistaken), anyway.

- Drop some power, drop some weight. The car weighs 1.6 tonnes, for god sake! Any heavier and it'll start making cracks in the tarmac when it lands from jumps. And a lighter car should have less weight over the front, which should lift some of the stress off the front tyres. Less stress, less red tyres, more tyres for more laps.

Eh, to be honest, this is as much as I can come up with, as said, I need more time with it first.

 

[gknap]

So I've tested the tune.

Overall a good tune, but it could be better.
I like how the car reacts when I lift off the gas, go too fast, lift of and the car steers more in to the corner - good.
The car is also very stable - good

What i dont fancy so much is how the car reacts when I push the gass in a corner.
The front then looses grip and understeers, not much but its there. This then means I loose speed on the exits and therefore also straightline speed (= slower laptimes).
Also the turn in is a bit vague not sharp enough imho.

Did 1.24.684 with your tune.

Did 1.23.961 with my tune.
If you want to test my tune just say the word.

@Onboy
The car weighs 1.3 tonnes with the upgrades.
Or have I miss understood?

 

[Onboy123]

@Onboy
The car weighs 1.3 tonnes with the upgrades.
Or have I miss understood?

Nope, I have. See, this is what I mean about making things clear, I only just noticed that it said, among the massive text in the OP:

All weight reduction

buried in it. Make it easier to understand, please! It saves all of us a lot more time if we know what you're banging on about from the off.

So, a retest, I think. *walks off mumbling*

 

[f611en-6nge1]

Sorry about the confusing post! My first time really trying to post something like this. Of course as I type it in, it all makes sense to me, though I can see how the post can be hard to read. I'll look into how tunes are usually done for my next one.

Other than that, I'd love to try out anything you've tried different to get a comparison. It will give me some insight as to how to correct issues like this.

 

[f611en-6nge1]

Final round of modifications on this car. I'm about at the limits of what I can do myself. I might have just a tad left with the LSD and shocks. Other than that, I'm happy with the result. I can consistently get 1:25.5 on every lap even missing a turn entry here or there.

Feel free to use on any track you wish, I haven't tried too many, though it feels balanced to me.

Auto
Oil Change
Front Aero, bumper
Rear Aero, spoiler option number 1

weight Reduction
Stage 3
Hood (fiberglass)
Window
Engine
Stage 3
Tuned ECU
Intake
Manifold
Racing Filter
Exhaust
Manifold
Catalytic
Titanium Racing
Turbo
None
Transmission
Customizable 6 Speed
Drivetrain
Twin Plate
Semi-Racing
Driveshaft
Center Diff
LSD
Suspension
Custom
Tires
Sport Hard (S1)

ABS = 1
everything else off

Tune

Weight Adjustment
Ballast +100kg / +50 split
= 1331kg / 52% front

Aero
Down force 0 front / +7 rear

LSD
Torque Split - 20/80
Front LSD - 10/9/17
Rear LSD - 21/26/12

Gearing
1st - 2.874 2nd - 2.097
3rd - 1.605 4th - 1.282
5th - 1.068 6th - 0.927
final - 4.070
Top speed155mph **note, top speed left default, actuall top speed shows 156mph**

Suspension
Ride Hight - Front: -21 Rear: -22
Spring Rate- Front: 10.4 Rear: 12.9
Extention- Front: 4 Rear: 5
Compression- Front: 4 Rear: 6
Anti-roll Bars- Front: 3 Rear: 4

Camber- Front: 1.3 Rear: 0.7
Toe Angle- Front: -0.5 Rear: -0.10
Brakes- Front: 5 Rear: 6

Result
Max Power: 382hp
Weight: 1331kg
PP: 500

**Note, performance parts may need to be worked with as engine breaks in**

 

[gknap]

Sorry about the confusing post! My first time really trying to post something like this. Of course as I type it in, it all makes sense to me, though I can see how the post can be hard to read. I'll look into how tunes are usually done for my next one.

Other than that, I'd love to try out anything you've tried different to get a comparison. It will give me some insight as to how to correct issues like this.

Hey we all do mistakes (thats how we learn, right?), dont worry about it.


Ok, heres my tune. Its not perfect in any way, but it is faster in my hands.

Suspension

Ride height -18/-18
Spring rate 10/9.5
Dampers Ext. 6/5
Dampers Comp. 5/4
Anti roll bars 3/4

Camber 1.3/0.7
Toe 0.0/-0.05


LSD

Init. 10/14
Accel. 13/24
Breaking. 7/13

Torque split 25/75


Bhp 367
Ballast 51kg @ pos. 50 =1282kg
Downforce 0/13
Break balance 3/3
PP 500

Upgrades and gearbox as spesified, except Chassis Reinforcement witch I added (read post 2 and 3).

 

[Onboy123]

Ok, just going to point out a few problem areas with the "Final Tune".

Test track was Trial Mountain Forward- 1:37.296 (Not brilliant, but hey, I can only do so much with 5 laps)

- The car seems unsure of itself, it doesn't inspire much confidence to begin with on cold tyres. Drive it a bit more, at you do start to trust it, but you can't "feel" the tyre's grip.

- It will oversteer/4 wheel drift with big smoke from all 4s if you're not careful/pushing hard. Maybe move the torque split closer to 40/60 or 35/65?

The TT was hardly the most brilliant platform to begin with, so what's been done here is a big improvement over the default settings, but isn't that always the case? Basically, solve the "floaty front feeling" and tune out the oversteer, it'll be pretty damn good then. Keep at it. 👍

 

[gknap]

Ok, just going to point out a few problem areas with the "Final Tune".

Test track was Trial Mountain Forward- 1:37.296 (Not brilliant, but hey, I can only do so much with 5 laps)

- The car seems unsure of itself, it doesn't inspire much confidence to begin with on cold tyres. Drive it a bit more, at you do start to trust it, but you can't "feel" the tyre's grip.

- It will oversteer/4 wheel drift with big smoke from all 4s if you're not careful/pushing hard. Maybe move the torque split closer to 40/60 or 35/65?

The TT was hardly the most brilliant platform to begin with, so what's been done here is a big improvement over the default settings, but isn't that always the case? Basically, solve the "floaty front feeling" and tune out the oversteer, it'll be pretty damn good then. Keep at it. 👍

Did 1.37.4xx with the "final tune" at TM.
As you say Onboy, tune out the oversteer and this will be very good indeed.

Try redusing the values on springs and dampers at the rear or you can test lower values on the break balance to keep the rear wheels from locking.
This might help for the oversteer, as for the floaty feel I havent got a clue.

 

[Onboy123]

Did 1.37.4xx with the "final tune" at TM.
As you say Onboy, tune out the oversteer and this will be very good indeed.

Try redusing the values on springs and dampers at the rear or you can test lower values on the break balance to keep the rear wheels from locking.
This might help for the oversteer, as for the floaty feel I havent got a clue.

Well, the car's on a thin line between safe…and then oversteer. The line is often 4 Wheel sliding with no smoke, but then you can't feel the tyres, so then you're doing it blind.

I'd say soften the front…but I'm actually not too sure about spring rates, since I only know that high/low gives a car a sharper steering feel, but also burn off the front tyres at the limits. So yea, play around a bit…

…which I might do as well, come to think of it…

 

[f611en-6nge1]

Good golly, how fast are you guys entering the corners? I think there may be a major difference how I drive vs others. I brake slightly late and corner late. Roll onto throttle smoothly and it has just enough oversteer to keep the. Front from losing grip and getting decent exit speed.

At least I've gotten somewhere, it's loose enough that there is a slight oversteer problem for some. Is the general consensus that the periods tune had too much understeer and the. Current is too loose? I can tune that out. I also bag the front LSD set to keep both front wheels balanced through turns - has this helped with the wear on the front outside tire?

Ideas I have, I like the. Balance weight wise currently, aero works well high speed also, Hp level works as well so I don't think that needs any further work. I could decrease stability a bit in the corner to get more feel up front. Would sacrifice the balance of tire wear (which is perfect right now, at least my driving style). Bring the center lsd. Back to 25/75, stiffen shocks front, loosen rear to counteract springs. I like the camber and toe also. Currently, doesn't have that yaw control feeling I hate on evo's.

Maybe I'll give it a shot when home. Too made I can't live tune with a few of you guys, would be much quicker a process.

 

[Onboy123]

Good golly, how fast are you guys entering the corners? I think there may be a major difference how I drive vs others. I brake slightly late and corner late. Roll onto throttle smoothly and it has just enough oversteer to keep the. Front from losing grip and getting decent exit speed.

Err…not as fast as I know I could be going into it? Eh…from memory, I take the first section of Trial Mountain at 115mph-ish and exit with 100-105mph…not sure about Deep Forest though.

Also, I…don't do that. I stand on the brakes, try do some trail-braking as best I can with a DS3, let the thing rotate off-throttle before caning it out the corner. Or, in some corners, just chuck it through, thumb firmly on the throttle and hope the tyres can cope. You don't really need to worry about driving styles too much, it's the tune we're "here" for.

At least I've gotten somewhere, it's loose enough that there is a slight oversteer problem for some. Is the general consensus that the periods tune had too much understeer and the. Current is too loose? I can tune that out. I also bag the front LSD set to keep both front wheels balanced through turns - has this helped with the wear on the front outside tire?

Well, the old tune was tested with 300kg extra up its arse, so I'd hardly call that a fair test on my behalf. Current settings are just a bit loose, a change here or there with the power bias should do.

I can't tell about the wear…I don't drive conservatively enough to see the difference and I don't turn it on anyways. It doesn't overheat the outer tyre as much though, from memory.

Ideas I have, I like the. Balance weight wise currently, aero works well high speed also, Hp level works as well so I don't think that needs any further work. I could decrease stability a bit in the corner to get more feel up front. Would sacrifice the balance of tire wear (which is perfect right now, at least my driving style). Bring the center lsd. Back to 25/75, stiffen shocks front, loosen rear to counteract springs. I like the camber and toe also. Currently, doesn't have that yaw control feeling I hate on evo's.

Err…I'm not sure about the changes, as each tune ever published ever ever is tuned with a bias towards the tuner (duh……), so I guess it's all down to you. We're just here to ramble and get in the way of you making the perfect car for your style. I'd say that you could lose the wing and just tune it to run less ballast and have a slightly faster car…but I don't really do PP tuning, so it's all down to you in the end.

You can only get the yaw control feeling with the Evos because the computer is throwing you around like a little puppet every time you make an input, so yea. I hate it too, but rest assure, you won't get that feeling unless you wedge an AYC system into the thing.

 

[f611en-6nge1]

I'm soo sorry about that last tune! I was in a daze towards the end and hadn't noticed how unstable it became.

I've since fixed I believe everything. I'm not sure if you're going to get the most out of it Onboy as I likely drive a lot smoother, albeit sometimes slower, than it seems you do. Though you should find it much better than last.

Gave it a few runs on TM to get a feel for the high speed turns, I liked the feel myself.

New tune has been edited in first post, I'll make note there.