Tuner Challenge 5 Judging and Results!

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by mafia_boy, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

    Messages:
    10,448
    Location:
    United States
    img0037.jpg

    Car: 2002 Impreza Sedan WRX STi

    Tuner: Rotary Junkie

    Garage: RRV Motorworks

    Best Lap: 1:23.221


    To bring SUPERCAR to a close, we have a couple JDM machines. Here's the first.

    Speed

    Top Speed: 149.2 mph

    Like VTiRoj's BMW M3 CSL, the Impreza WRX STi-511 is not not as muscular as some others. It's got 494 horsepower, making it more powerful than VTiRoj's BMW M3 CSL, and Macca's 350Z. It should have had more power than this, but RJ forgot to list an oil change as standard equipment. :ouch::( Not to worry...this car still offers plenty of benefits other than pure Speed, and it ain't so bad with Speed & acceleration as tested.

    Even if I had allowed that oil change, this STi would have been among the lesser-powered cars. Instead of power, it relies on other qualities, and offers some possibilities not seen in any other SUPERCAR so far. Now, I'm not saying the others have been "all brawn/no brains", I'm simply stating that almost all of the Impreza's competitors have been heavier in comparison. More powerful, true--but in many cases these heavier autos lack the savvyness found in both this Impreza, and VTiRoj's Beemer. They feel heavier. The Impreza WRX STi-511 does not.

    The 2.0 liter flat-4 engine features amazing flexibility...and a super-high redline of 8,000 rpms, which we'll never have any reason to touch. Peak power is way below this at 6,000 rpms, but this is not a spikey horsepower peak...it's more like a broad curve of power which stretches quite a bit, thanks to that Stage 5 turbo system. The Stage 5's spooling action retains its boost well past peak, well into the 7K range of revs, which means there's LOTS of revs to play with up high. :dopey: Very unlike that Typhoon I just drove, which loses boost rapidly once we pass peak.

    The engine also pulls from lower revs; as low as 3,500 rpms in 3rd gear. This makes 3rd an option out of slower areas; but beware, for there is also lots of understeer on-exit if you just flatten the gas-pedal without discretion. :nervous: Sometimes, it's simply better to drop into 2nd, but this depends on the variability of how we attack that corner. We can experience understeer in 2nd, as well, but it's somewhat easier to avoid.

    Understeer
    . :( That's really the main issue I had with this car when trying to build acceleration out-of-turns. Traction is awesome; traction helps the best it can. There was no out-of-control rear-wheelspin showing up like I experienced occasionally with the STi Spec C from Heavyweight. Instead, the Impreza WRX STi-511's tires would often ACT like they were about to lose it. Just when you think some smokey tires are about to ruin everything, they "hook up", and you're on your way. :D These small moments of drama made my time behind the wheel of this car lotso fun. :tup:

    Gearing is busy....2nd thru 6th possibly come into play if you're being strict about keeping the engine in its true powerband/peak area. But at least there's some options with gearing. 6th is somewhat taller than the others. I used 6th down the longest straight (the car redlines if you don't upshift, finally stepping outside of its best power-zone) but didn't truely need 6th in any other spot. Although I did use 6th (for fun) down Motegi East's 2nd and 3rd longest straights, it was more convenient when going for Best Lap if I kept it in 5th instead.

    So it's the understeer (and those resulting moments when I'd need to hold back when I wanted to just slam the throttle) that hurt acceleration, lap times, and therefore this Speed category most of all, not including the oil change RJ forgot to list. :ouch:

    Then again, if he HAD listed the oil change, there'd be more power, but there'd also be a tendency for more wheelspin. I know 'cause I tried this. :idea:

    17
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    Handling

    Already mentioned understeer. Let's back up, though...let's see what happens before this understeer occurs. :idea:

    Okay everyone, gather around, grab a soda, and check out those brakes!!! :dopey::D:cheers: The STi has GREAT brakes even when stock, which means Rotary Junky gets a head-start, but it doesn't hurt that he's also included a brake balancer, and strengthened its settings. These settings aren't massive, but it's okay. Like I said, this car has great brakes to start with, so RJ's has even BETTER ones.

    I could play with my braking areas to a great extent, even into super-tricky Turn 1. I could brake early (say...at 100 or 110 meters), giving the STi-511 plenty of time to get into a proper groove. OR... I could brake later (say...at 95 or 90 meters), SKEWING the car into a slideways slant as I approached the L, getting those tires a bit smokey. :D This was alot more fun, obviously, but also more dangerous. Needed a bit of damage control if I did this. However, the fact that the Impreza WRX STi-511 ALLOWS us these options with "braking & entry" :lol: can't be ignored. :tup::idea:

    Wings, tilted to the max both front & rear, also help with slowing down, offering their aerodynamic resistance. :tup: This limits overall speed & acceleration to a small degree, but notice this car has the BEST braking ability so far. :tup: Trail-braking in the STi-511 is therefore a dream come true for Parnelli. The only criticism one can make (and I'm not docking points for this) is that the front-end can become grabby under braking, and gets even grabbier, once we lift-off those brakes. But I'm not docking for this simply because:

    A). I could work with this grabby behavior. Never found myself in a near-spin because of it.

    B). This front-end behavior increases the STi-511's responsiveness when entering corners; offering us plenty of leeway and options with cornering lines on-entry. :tup:



    Only a n00b or intermediate driver may get overwhelmed by all this. I'm personally elated by it. I had lots of fun ENTERING every single Twin Ring East corner because of it. :cheers: Fun with braking? Is such a thing possible??? Apparently so. Slowing down doesn't always have to be a bummer. :)

    Lift-off throttle
    is also very massively strong, to the point that it's possible to get the entire car into a sideways jacknife if you want. :drool: But if you don't want this, the solution is easy--don't crank the steering quite as hard next time you enter that curve.
    This is obviously a very responsive car, very different from some of the heavier luxury cruisers & Aussie sedans of TCV5 SUPERCAR, which (in comparison) have sometimes felt somewhat dead or numb while attacking these same curves.

    The RRV Impreza WRX STi-511 features some radical settings in comparison to others; obviously a bit of a Rotary Junky trademark. The front-end is 10 mm higher than the rear, for instance. The entire car is much higher off the ground than any other so far, except one of the Jags, I think. Those front springs & stabilizers are much stronger than the rear ones (in this regard, the STi-511 is similar to some of Adamgp's tunes). RJ's damper settings seem to contradict those springs & stabilizers, since they're weaker up front. Well, the front bound dampers are. Interesting. This car also has a VCD automatically installed, which RJ has set with as strong a RWD bias as possible.

    All of this seems like it could be wacky, yet this car works with us. :tup: Rumblies create a minimal negatory effect at times, but not enough to dock a point, since it's just as easy to avoid these moments. Traction is exemplary. The car gets into all kinds of fun slip-angles (helping Versatility massively) if you want it to. Or, you can drive more conservatively once you figure out how to use steering in more of a "partial" manner.

    Despite its 140/130 mm ground clearance, the Impreza WRX STi-511's body only occasionally wobbles independantly from its chassis in a negative way. Most of the time, I could work with this car's rare wobbles and slips, especially into and out of hairpins and elles (and other slow areas).

    The only major problem I had was with the limited-slip--specifically that rear Accel setting of "58". Very strong this is. Is it necessary? :confused:

    The one trait that the STi-511 really loses points at (so far as Handling goes) is probably caused by this Accel/LSD setting: understeer on-exit. It's the one trait that ruined my otherwise stellar time while driving this car. Too many times I'd swear I had been careful to avoid plowing, yet I'd wind up in some grass, anyways. :banghead::mad::banghead:

    But overall, Handling is looking good. Above-average when compared to every single car so far, except the BMW, which doesn't understeer as much.

    19
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    Versatility

    This is one of the more versatile ones...almost too versatile at times! :scared: It can tackle Motegi East's curves & corners in lots and lots of directions (especially into turns), after awhile you realize you almost have too many options, including the option to grab too far towards the inside line (and possibly into some grass. But having lots of options helps Versatility. Only a newbish driver will get confused by this car and all the behaviors it displays.

    It's when leaving corners that there's a few points minused. :indiff: As noted above in the Speed & Handling sections, understeer can easily show up under power, sometimes even if you've been careful to try and avoid it. You always have to consider how it's gonna show up, and how it's gonna affect you out of turns. This is true when driving more casually, as well as while tearing about.

    But into turns? Good lord, this one is so tossable. It explores the track like nobody else. You can chuck it this way and that, get it sideways, brake late....it won't matter! :lol: The only thing that ruins all this is when trying to re-introduce throttle. You can NEVER plant it early, like you could in a couple of the rear-drives.

    On the other hand, after awhile I learned I could brake into some areas super-late (Turn 6 hairpin is a great example), CRANK the steering so that the Impreza was now jack-knifed into a slide. Since the rear was moving with a greater orbit than the front, I now COULD drop the hammer full-force. Understeer might still show up, but usually I'd squashed it like a bug if I did this manuever right.

    I didn't even bother with any Family Cups below +10. I had full confidence I'd just bake them all. :lol:

    Predictably, the Impreza WRX STi-511 simply slaughtered +10. In this case, I wound up passing ALL except the leading NSX Prototype by the time I was at Turn 10/Lap 1. In lap 2, I caught up to the NSX as the STi was leaving Turn 5, and then I drafted him down the straight. Into the hairpin, the Impreza WRX STi-511 braked late, and then went into a wild jack-knife!, it's front tires well heated by this point. This looked awesome in the replay. :tup:

    It's that understeer (as I said) that ruins a perfect score. It's avoidable if you slow down a tad & explore for some Versatility-type laps, or go for a crazy manuever like I described above. But understeer still "rears its ugly head" (RJ's words) too often to ignore. :indiff:

    17
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    Car versus Battle Monster

    Last I heard, the poor BATTLE MONSTER team was secretly going broke. :( A quick listen over an open radio line confirmed: the Gran Turismo GTR BATTLE MONSTER crew was apparently applying for Welfare & Food Stamps. :scared: Their spiffy sponsorhip deal with Walmart...down the drain. :(

    There have even been rumors they're even thinking of giving their precious Skyline over for America's current "Cash 4 Clunkers" deal! :lol:

    14
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    Improvement over Stock

    Let's start with weight. RJ's Impreza is 4 kilograms heavier than a stock 2002 STi. This isn't significantly heavier, so I won't dock a point like I did with the Jaguar XJ220, which was 160 kg's over the stock car. 4 kg ain't enough to cause any pain. RJ probably included it so his car would just make the SUPERCAR limit. On the other hand, there's no points to be gained here.

    Yikes. It's hard to award points for gearing, other than the fact that the RRV Impreza WRX STi-511 has those better drivetrain parts, which means gear shifts happen more immediately. The stock tranny in a stock '02 Impreza WRX STi assumes gear 6 doesn't see action, but it doesn't need to see action. Arguably, the stock tranny feels just fine at Twin Ring.

    Aww, screw it. :ouch: No it doesn't. It could be slightly shorter. If the stock '02 Sti included 6th for an overall shorter set of throws, there would be an improvement to acceleration. As it is, the '02 STI feels somewhat sluggish due to its taller gearbox. There's another point for ya, Rj.

    The stock car also leans alot more, I noticed. I could use this behavior to my advantage, but the fact that the tuned car's firmer feel is overall more appropriate here at this technical track is a definate improvement. *Bing*.

    Both cars have similar prowess while entering turns of all kinds. They both need to brake at the same spots, but the fact that the STi-511 is travelling at a much higher rate of speed while doing so represents another improvement. *Bing*. Also, the fact that the tuned car's got a stronger rearward VCD bias helps with another improvement point, as I definately noticed the car acts more like a RWD with FWD assist, rather than an AWD.

    From here on, the points stop rolling in. :(

    Both cars enter turns with similar prowess, like I mentioned. I could get either one sideways if I wanted, with plenty of lift-off oversteer..if I wanted. Or I could avoid this altogether for a more professional line. Either car offered me these options. The stock car's lack of wings don't matter, since it travels at a slower rate of speed. I could use its natural behavior to keep whatever speed I had going.

    Both cars understeer on-exit once the pressure's on...the stock version only slightly less than the STi-511. The fact that the stock '02 has less power (and no aftermarket PD limited-slips) means understeer doesn't readily interfere under power. I'd dock a point here, except that the tuned car offers other options to help us avoid understeer if we're good. Plenty of alternate lines & tossability, for instance.

    5

    Total Score: 72
     
  2. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

    Messages:
    10,448
    Location:
    United States
    img0038.jpg

    Car: '05 Nissan 350Z GT Limited Edition

    Tuner: McSqueegy

    Garage: none (independent)

    Best Lap: 1:21.456


    Macca's 350Z brings SUPERCAR to a close. And what a dramatic close it is.


    Speed

    Top Speed: 151.8 mph

    Speed is certainly an area this car quickly (ha ha) excells at. My very first lap was a high 1:23. Next couple laps were 1:22s. Then there were a couple botched laps as I played with racing lines and such. I nailed a 1:21.869 without even trying that hard. I looked at the odometer. 000017 miles was all it said. :)

    I did a bunch more laps, and improved this time further, till it was obvious I had done the best I could. There is probably further improvement, and I'm sure Macca's gonna show up telling us how "easy" his 1:19 was in this very same car. :rolleyes: But I'm done. :grumpy:

    Anyways, this is yet another supercharged engine, those lower revs have lots of prowess as that belt (or gear or chain?)-driven intake device does its job. But for whatever reason, I didn't feel as comfortable using 3rd out of slower areas like I did with several other SUPERCARS. The 350Z understeers on entry rather heavily if you don't brake sufficiently, so it's best to downshift into 2nd, anyways, using 2nd as a reliable engine-brake in conjunction with the car's pads & discs. The supercharger pulls from lower revs in 2nd just fine, but I noticed there was an unexpected hesitation in 3rd below 5,000 rpms.

    So....I simply played this gearbox by the book: 2nd for slower areas, 3rd for the esses, and 4th + 5th for straights. 6th is not needed.

    I had some issue as to what McSqueegy really meant by his gearing instructions, since he says (not his exact words, but close enough) "use tranny trick, put Final Drive to 5.500, push Auto slider to 1, and set the rest of the ratios". He didn't include a 2nd Final Drive rating, but I was told to simply put the Final back to its original setting, which is 3.538. I'll leave it up to the judges and the rest of the entrants of this contest whether all this okay. :indiff: I had an issue with it, but nobody else seems to so far. As long as we're all on the same page with what a "tranny trick" actually entails....

    Anyways, peak power is at 6,400 rpms, with a 6,600 rpm redline. RPM limit is at 7,000. Again, it looks as if there won't be enough to get the job done, but I never had any issue. The 350Z strolled into redline plenty of times with my driving, but not once did I peg the limit. :tup:

    Traction is great, with never any wheelspin, even if you zap the throttle fully. Only if you're sitting there being goofy and doing donuts and stuff will those rear tires finally start getting smokey. Anyways, traction is phenomenol, with a good bit of flexibility out-of-corners, which means acceleration is always good as well.

    The 350 Z GT edition is only losing a point in my Top Speed category, since it's a full 1.3 mph slower than a couple others (Jaguar XJ220 and Fudge Aston V12 GT) down Motegi's longest straight..

    24
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    Handling

    In a way, the 350Z is a polar opposite to the Impreza I drove yesterday. The Impreza's worst trait was its habit of understeering under throttle while exiting turns. The 350Z reverses this, feels much more flexible while leaving turns, but understeers into them. :boggled:

    Firm braking must be employed to solve this. I also used a quick engine-brake into 1st gear as I cruised thru that final hairpin. This particular hairpin is larger than Turn 6 or Turn 10, and it's difficult to enter without either excessive understeer on-entry or the opposite--too much braking too early, which creates a horrible moment of downtime before you can hit the throttle. I solved this dillema with a final engine-brake into 1st, before upshifting into 2nd and zooming off. :tup::idea:

    The 350Z's brakes aren't way off-the-chart horrible. Instead, they are (again) rather average as compared to others. We can't play with trail-braking and a variety of brake zones like we could with RJ's STi, although the '05 Nissan 350Z GT Limited Edition does trail-brake successfully if you want it to, especially into Turns 2, 3, 8, and 9. It's just not up to the STi's level.

    Anyways, braking must be firm, or thall shalt be dealt with understeer on-entry. :ouch: But even if you brake exactly when you should, the front-end still feels a little stiff on-entry into tighter areas. The car turns-in a few degrees sharper once brakes are off, but it's not the sort of turn-in that inspires massive confidence exploring on-entry racing lines like in the BMW or Impreza.

    Rumbly strips rarely made a diff for my driving, not enough to dock any points. I had exactly one moment where one took the car's racing line away, but this was it. Never any excessive bOuNcInG or slipping, not that I expected any.

    I really like the way the limited-slip is set. :tup: Mild it is, so it allows lots of flexibility. :tup: Yet it also tames the rear end, and is probably part of the reason there's zero wheelspin under throttle. The 350Z also throttlesteers to some extent, which I could really use when exiting Turn 9. Long seconds of full throttle, but also full steering input..while those tires keep their grip, and the entire car gets into a tighter angle starting from the rear. Fantastic. :D

    There was occasional understeer while exiting slower areas, but this is easy to avoid. Just let-off the throttle a tad and it's gone. Travelling thru the esses was breezy, only secondary to VTiRoj's BMW. The 350Z lifts-off as well, although not to as great an extent as a couple other SUPERCARS.

    So it's the average-rated brakes and understeer on-entry that dock a few. Not bad, tho.

    20
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    Versatility

    A versatile machine for sure, with understeer on-entry and braking ability the main down points. The 350Z surprisingly isn't very tossable, either; not like either of the RRV automobiles. You try and get it sideways, and it feels a tad stiff. It's hard to get it to "break" and get into odd angles. But otherwise, the '05 Nissan 350Z GT Limited Edition feels plenty flexible if traction & grip are guaranteed.

    The Family Cups were almost a waste of time :lol: as I simply slammed them shut. Actually, I only did a +10 (why waste time with lesser events?) but then I did another one, since this is the last TCV5 car I'll be racing. :cry:

    16
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    Car versus Battle Monster

    Today was my last day facing the Gran Turismo GTR BATTLE MONSTER Skyline, or any BATTLE MONSTER crew. TCV5 is coming to a close for Parnelli. :(

    I brought the BATTLE MONSTER crew a big bottle of Moet as a gift. No hard feelings, despite the fact that they previously tried to sabotage one of the cars I needed to test. But as I walked over to their garage this morning, I noticed there was nobody there to greet me. :( Nobody except the water boy, who was dressed in rags, holding a tin can that said "spare change". I gave him the champagne.

    Turns out they went totally bankrupt. :eek: They tried to turn in thier Skyline to the "Cash 4 Clunkers" program, only to find they couldn't get a sizable chunk of bailout money. :lol: In frustration, one of the BATTLE MONSTER crew drove it into a tree. :mad:

    Parnelli + TCV5 tuners: 8

    Gran Turismo GTR BATTLE MONSTER crew: 2

    :cheers:

    17
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    Improvement over Stock

    Macca has had a pretty good run with scoring so far, let's see if he can top it off in this category. I'm getting tired, so I won't be so eloquent with words, not that anybody will mind.

    Areas of improvement:

    1). Gearing. Stock 350Z GT Edition often strays too far from its peak power area. Macca's remake not only features gearing which concentrates on the best revs, but it also is more appropriate for this track.

    2). Drivetrain. Triple clutch + lightest flywheel fire thoes shifts into place faster. Carbon driveshaft also shaves off precious hundredths and perhaps even tenths. :tup:


    Areas of no improvement (or no improvement possible):

    1). Weight. Tuned car is slightly heavier. Not enough to dock points, but none added either.

    2). Traction. Stock & tuned never lose it under varying circumstances.

    3). General handling. Both cars have a firmness about them...neither one leans or experiences excessive diving. The tuned car has wings (true), but I could use the stock car's natural behavior to help sling it around. It actually feels a little more tossable than Macca's car. Having less power helps, of course.

    4). Redline area/RPM limit. Both cars have a 6,600 rpm redline with a 7,000 limit, despite the fact that Macca's 350Z has engine balancing.

    5). Braking. The stock 350Z needs less distance to slow, and understeers way less on-entry. :indiff:

    6). Manuverability. Both cars trail-brake, throttlesteer, and lift-off with similar mannerisms. The stock car actually understeers less overall. So finally...

    Docked points: :( :ouch:

    1). Understeer. The tuned car (for whatever reason) understeers more heavily on-entry than the stock one, even if you give far less braking zone to the stock 350Z. The stock Nissan understeers on-entry if you brake too late, but performs damage control with greater success somehow. It just works with us more readily in these regards.



    ...OMG. Am I DONE WITH Tuner Challenge Version 5? ..has small, psychological breakdown..life suddenly has no more meaning.

    :cheers:

    1

    Total Score: 78
     
  3. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Introduction:
    I am “Too Old.” In more ways than one!! I started playing GT4 when it first came out and played GT3 prior to that. I had a gameshark and didn’t take it too seriously. I quit playing after about a year, didn’t even have the PS2 hooked up, for even more years. Then about six or seven months ago I hooked it up and got hooked.

    I have 99.8% complete (mission 34 escapes me). I have only 8 golds, all the rest are silver. I’ll freely admit even all the silvers didn’t come easy to me. I know I’m not nearly as fast as most of you are but it should work out because I’ll be equally slow for everyone

    Judging

    Speed

    I have tried to take as much subjective opinion out of the judging process as I could. The first is speed, further broken down into ; power, acceleration, and top speed on course. Power, to me is tough to define. I could use pure horsepower numbers, but with the variety of cars and weights it just doesn’t seem right. One could just pick a heavier car and gain extra power points. That doesn’t seem fair to me. What if you combined horsepower and torque numbers for each car? That is what I have chosen to do.

    The acceleration portion of the speed equation is one I feel can be measured. Since we have to get the top speed on the course already, I will get the slowest speed at the hairpin just before the front straight. The difference between the two should be a decent indicator of acceleration.
    The max speed on the course is pretty straight forward and doesn’t need explanation

    What I have done is assign the three speed variables a value. Top speed is worth up to 9 points for the fastest car and down to 2 for the slowest. Power and acceleration are valued from 8 down to 1 point for the lowest car. Since there are 8 cars in the contest and there is a max of 25 points available, I feel this should work.

    Handling

    Now this is pretty subjective. I am getting the corner speed already to figure the acceleration, but the turn in, braking, understeer, oversteer, gearing, ect., are a little more a matter of feel.
    Versatility
    This should be pretty easy to determine. Either the car can or can’t allow multiple lines. To me this will also show if the car is forgiving of your mistakes. I’m sure I will test this part completely with the number of mistakes I make.

    Battle Monster

    Straight forward. The rules are the rules.

    Improvement Over Stock

    A combination of decreasing the lap time from stock,(Duh) and containing the inevitable increasedspeed and power.

    Now with some of the preliminaries out of the way, let’s see if we can get some reviews done

    .
    Mazdaspeed 6 AWD
    Jonn79’s entry​
    Lap time is 127.470 6th place
    SPEED
    Power figure is 455+426 for a total of 881 8th place for 1 pt

    Top Speed is 146.0 3rd place for 7 pts

    Acceleration is 110.5 1st place for 8 pts

    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 16


    Handling
    Corner speed is 35.5mph
    I put a lot of miles on this car and have come to several conclusions. The first is that the car has the turning radius of a fire truck, combine this with the inclination to understeer and you have a tough combination to work with.

    Jonn states that he has" the understeering beast in check", well, not so much in my opinion.

    Turn in is rather slow at speed. What seems to work as well as anything else is to brake before the corner, turn, then hit the brakes again. This seems to shift enough weight to the front tires so they start to bite. Don’t hit the throttle next though, coast around, then throttle.

    The gearing was good even if it was busy. You hit 5th gear at the start/finish line and are into the redline area of the tach in 6th gear by the end of the straight. You are not into the rev limiter however. You do have a gear for all occasions on the track. I did find myself gearing down one too many gears occasionally

    The brakes were pretty good. They allowed good speed on the straights and never upset the car when they were applied.

    Hammer the throttle as hard as you want, there is all the power to the pavement. Wheelspin is not an issue.

    Oversteer is totally nonexistent. I don’t think you can induce it with this car.

    The only thing left is what I call, ease of use. This is not an easy car to use. You can get some decent lap times with it but only with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

    TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 10

    Versatility
    Unfortunately there is almost none here. I can use a limited number of lines to get times in the low 1’ 30’s, but I think there is only one way for this car to get into the 1’27 range. This is the least versatile car in the group.

    TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 6


    BATTLE MONSTER
    My Battle Monster time is 1’30.443. ( Yeah, yeah, I know it is slow, but so is everything else.) Jonn’s Mazdaspeed 6 time with me driving was 1’27.470. The challenger beat the Monster by 2.973 secs. Not too bad at all.

    TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS =16

    Improvement Over Stock
    I drove the stock car to a time of 1’ 36.185 time. That figures out to a difference of 8.715 seconds improvement over stock. Once again, not too bad. What if you left the tuning stock, but added the listed horsepower increases and weight reductions. How much difference is due to what I call tuning: transmission, suspension, lsd, all those other things. Jonn’s car, with just the weight and horsepower changes from stock, clocked 1’32.159 or 4.026 second improvement. That is almost half of the improvemenrt. Suspension, lsd, wing, ect. Account for a reduction of another 4.689 seconds.
    I did notice that when driving the stock car turn in was better and the tendency to understeer was not as pronounced as after the mods were made. It could be just the increased speed magnifying the problem areas.
    TOTAL IMPROVEMENT POINTS = 9

    FINAL SCORE = 57



    VIPER GTS ‘99

    Adamgp’s entry
    Lap time is 1’25.575
    SPEED

    Power figure is 465 horsepower +499 ft lbs of torque for a total of 964 3rd place = 6 points

    Top Speed is 148.1 mph 1st place = 9 pts

    Acceleration is 109.9 4th place = 5 pts

    Here is a surprise. The Mazda ends up with a better acceleration number. The reason is the top speed should be higher, but you are forced to slow early because of the terrible brakes.

    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 20


    Handling
    The corner speed is 38.2 mph taken at the slowest part of the final hairpin.

    This is one of those fun cars to drive. It doesn’t take you long to figure out what is needed to go fast. The car starts with pretty good turn in.Then understeer at slower speeds. At higher speeds there is oversteer when you let off the throttle or hit the brakes What is needed to go even faster though, is brakes. They seem almost nonexistent, until you drive it stock, then you find out what nonexistent really is.

    The oversteer is controllable and can fairly consistently be induced. I did find that kicking the back end out at the final hairpin and nailing the throttle gives a better acceleration number than driving the normal line.
    Speaking of nailing the throttle, the power delivery is very controlled. I don’t know if it is the gearing or the lsd or something else but full throttle even in 2nd gear around a sharp turn doesn’t give uncontrolled wheelspin. I’m not a tuner so I don’t know cause, I just see effect.

    The gears seem well set up for this track. I would have thought that with the massive torque available that you would be able to use fewer gears but evidently not.

    The car doesn’t seem to be upset by the rumble strips and you are free to use them as track extenders.

    TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 18 pts

    Versatility

    This car is much more versatile than the preceding car. I found that I could take various lines (sometimes unintentionally) and still end up pretty close to my best time.

    TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 14 pts

    BATTLE MONSTER

    The Monster had no chance at all. I blew him off within the first three laps. The Viper beat the Monster’s time by 4.868 seconds. Excellent in my book.

    BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 19 pts



    Improvement Over Stock

    My time with the pure stock Viper was 1’29.338. That was enough to defeat the Monster by itself. There was almost no power added to the car by the tuner so virtually all the improvements were due to driveability changes. The improvement over stock was 3.763 seconds. Not a lot considering the Mazda’s close to 9 second improvement. This is, I guess, is one of the pitfalls of using a car that is fairly competitive off the showroom floor.

    The gearing was improved and the car just feels more stable and balanced after the tune. The terrible brakes after the tune were still a substansial improvement over stock. I found myself trying to drag my feet trying to slow for corners. So in spite of the brakes still being awful points are awarded for the improvement.

    One last thing about the brakes, actually Adamgp is getting penalized twice for the brakes, once here, and once in the acceleration area where I was forced to hit the brakes prematurely.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 3

    FINAL SCORE = 74 pts



    SKYLINE GT-R V-SPEC II NUR (R 34)

    Drifting24/7’s heavyweight

    Speed
    Power is 859 8th place = 1 pt

    Top Speed The Skyline peaked out at 145.4 mph. 6th place = 4 pts

    Acceleration Top speed of 103.9 mph. 5th place = 4 pts

    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 9


    Handling
    OK, actually better than OK. The turn in was a little sluggish but not too bad at all. This is a fun tune and is easy to use. The rumble strips would sometimes upset the car but not badly enough to deduct points for. Sometimes I would use them to purposely upset the car so I could get the back end to rotate more quickly.

    The Skyline did display a minor tendency to understeer when under power at slower speeds. Nothing major though, it also oversteered at high speeds, also nothing major. The understeer and the oversteer were very controllable and easily overcome.

    The gearing was very good for this track. You weren’t constantly rowing through the gears to keep in the engine’s sweet spot.

    TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 16

    Versatility

    Pretty decent versatility. I could run within about one half second of my best time using a variety of lines through the corners. The car was consistent and the times were repeatable.

    TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 15

    BATTLE MONSTER

    What monster? The stock times were less than two seconds off the best monster time. My best Skyline time was 1’26.339. This gives a 4.091 beating to the monster.


    TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS =18

    Improvement Over Stock
    The tuned car showed a 5.361 improvement over the stock car. This is pretty substantial decrease in time. I do know that the car feels more stable, turns in better and corners better with the Drifting 24/7 tune.

    TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 5


    FINAL SCORE = 63



    ’70 DODGE R/T 440
    Rotary Junkie’s heavyweight entry

    Speed

    The power figure is off the charts at 1032. 1st place = 8 pts

    Top Speed is 142.1 mph 8th place = 2 pts

    Acceleration is 100.9 mph 8th place = 1 pt

    TOTAL SPEED POINTS =11



    Handling

    Where to start? There is massive everything with this car. Massive weight, massive wheelspin, massive body roll, massive power, and massive fun. This is one of those cars that will teach you patience. If you try to hurry it, it’s into the grass, into a spin, or into the gravel trap.

    The brakes suck, not as bad as the Vipers, but like the Viper, the stock brakes suck even worse. The car loses some acceleration points because you have to hit the brakes too soon.

    There is a lot of understeer, especially under power, but there is also throttle induced oversteer available. The stock gearing had you bouncing off the rev limiter down the straights. Rotary Junkie fixed that with a six speed tranny. Suddenly you have choices about what gear to use. Usually the choice was between the high end of 2nd or the lower end of 3rd. I’ll be straight and tell that for me usually 3rd was the best choice because I am a button masher, finesse comes hard to me.

    The most challenging area for this car is in the esses, because of the huge amount of momentum that this behemoth carries. It doesn’t change direction easily or quickly, hence my thoughts on patience.

    There are two ways to corner with this thing, try to drive it around and deal with the understeer, or power it around and deal with the oversteer. What seems to work best is a combination of the two.
    Understeer is more controllable than the oversteer. When the back end comes around it is difficult to control, it wants to keep on going into a spin. There is just a lot of weight and momentum to try and deal with.

    The power and torque are hard to deal with using the d-pad buttons. You can do it but you have to bring your “A” game to the table. A little too much and instant meltdown. Caution is the key here.

    Ease of use? Not really. It is too touchy on the gas and too much weight and momentum to be easy to drive fast.
    HANDLING POINTS = 10



    Versatility

    Actually, the car is more versatile than initial impressions would indicate. With the ability to kick out the rearend available it increases the number of ways around the corners. You can mix and match lines and still get a comparable lap time. I did run this car on the Family Cup. I didn’t have much confidence and started on 0 difficulty. I won. I passed the lead car at corner six. I then tried difficulty three, then five , and lost (4th place) on level 7. The car is better than expected.

    VERSATILITY POINTS = 15



    BATTLE MONSTER

    The monster got his ass kicked again. The big blue whale got around the track in 1’28.987. Admittedly this is the slowest time recorded so far, but it still counts as a win.

    BATTLE MONSTER POINTS =13


    Improvement Over Stock

    With an improvement of 7.701 seconds over stock the big Dodge isn’t looking too shabby, I believe that the biggest improvement was giving the Dodge some legs. It was into the limiter way before the first corner. Top speed increased by over 20 mph at two places on the course. Rotary also changed the suspension settings and they also came into play. The corner speed improved from a stock speed of 36.5 mph to 41.2 mph.
    I had to check because the car doesn’t feel that different. It still rolls, slides and performs various contortions getting around the track. It just does everything more quickly.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 7


    Note: I have driven and rode in several of the muscle cars that are in the game, back in the day. The brakes were not as bad as they are in the game. They did wallow and lean a lot but still would corner better than the game gives credit for. This was also done on bias belted tires. I’ve driven big block Chevrolets with 4 speeds and up to 4.56 gears on the street (gas was cheap) without uncontrollable wheelspin. You could get that kind of wheelspin but you had to try some.

    FINAL SCORE = 56



    JAGUAR XK-R SPORT
    CamryFan’s Heavyweight
    Lap Time 1’28.101
    Speed
    Power figure is 903 5th place = 4 pts
    Top Speed is 142.2 7th place =3 pts
    Acceleration is 102.7 mph 7th place = 2pts
    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 9

    Handling

    This is one of the better handling cars, but it doesn’t show up in the lap times. The car turns in well, the gearbox works well with the engine’s powerband. The car puts all its power to the pavement, even when coming out of the hairpin in second gear with full throttle, it doesn’t lose its composureThe brakes are adequate, I wouldn’t say an improvement over stock, but adequate. The suspension soaked up the rumble strips pretty well, I even tried to use the rumblies to break the rear loose to help around the hairpin. You can get the car to rotate that way but then that grip hits and stops you from improving your time. I never thought I would be complaining about too much grip!

    The car’s corner speed was 39.5 mph So far the second slowest . The car gets me, it feels good, easy to drive, almost boring to drive, but the times are slow. There just isn’t enough horsepower or there is too much weight to allow this car to compete with the others as well as it might.

    This car feels like it has full aids on all the time. You get the feeling that you are restricted from straying out of the approved line.

    TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 15

    Versatility

    I don’t think the car allows much in the way of versatility. You have to drive the same lines to get the comparable times. Yes, there is some flexibility but not much. There is no ability to throw the car into a turn, jump on the gas and power out. The car is true to its roots; fast, comfortable, smooth, safe. Not a sporty, boy racer bone in its body

    TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 9



    BATTLE MONSTER

    Once again the monster was slain. This time by 2.342 seconds.

    TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 15

    Improvement Over Stock

    There was a 3.3 second improvement over the stock car’s time. It isn’t much improvement compared to the other cars we have tested. The tuning here was more minor tweaks, than major helps
    .
    TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 3


    FINAL SCORE = 51



    Subaru Impreza WRX STI spec C
    King of Weasles
    Lap time of 1'25.654. Amost a tie with the Viper

    Speed

    Power Figure came out as 924 4th place = 5 pts

    Top Speed was 147.6 mph 2nd place = 8 pts

    Acceleration was 110.4 mph 2nd place = 7 pts
    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 20

    Handling

    Obviously, with this kind of lap time, this car handles pretty well. The gearing matches up well with the powerband of the engine and the track layout. The brakes work well. They never upset the car whether they are applied in a straight line or around a corner. It is a good thing braking while turning is available because the Subaru does have a bit of understeer. When you tap the brakes it will tighten up your line. Admittedly, you are going fast enough that most other cars would have you into the grass or gravel at that same point.

    I don't feel that there is any oversteer. Going through the esses onto the second straight, you can get the rear of the car out, but to me that is more of a drift than oversteer. I wish there was some throttle inducible oversteer. In some of the tight corners, especially the final hairpin, I believe there is a lot of improvement available if you could just get the back of the car to rotate.

    All in all I really like what the King has done with this car. The tune allows the car to be fast but at the same time gives the driver a pretty stable platform to work with.

    HANDLING POINTS = 22

    Versatility

    The car with its blazing speed is also very versatile. I was able to stay within a second of my best time consistently. Occasionally I would get a new fastest time. Good times! These were different lines all over the track. I tried to run the final turn high, low and in the middle. I went in high and came out low, and did the opposite. This is the most versatile car so far.

    VERSATILITY POINTS = 17


    BATTLE MONSTER
    He didn't show up for the party

    BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 19

    Improvement Over Stock

    8.753 seconds. That pretty well says it all

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK = 7


    FINAL SCORE = 85



    HSV VY Super-Clubby Prototype (Holden Commodore SS)
    mafia_boy


    Speed
    Lap time of 126.409.

    Power figure is a whopping 1002 2nd place = 7 pts

    Top Speed of 145.9 at the end of the main straight. 4th place = 6 pts

    Acceleration was 110.4 mph. 2nd place = 7 pts

    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 20

    Handling

    There is a lot to be said here. There is very good acceleration with excellent brakes, in spite of no brake controller. (Thanks for saving me the money.) The car stopped fast and straight.

    Cornering was good. The car has excellent turn in. I liked the fact that there was a choice of gears for most corners. The first corner I started taking in third gear with an upshift into 4th before turn two. I would stay in 4th until the straight. Something that helped a lot was the fact that you could turn and get onto the gas early and your line would tighten up instead of plowing to the outside.

    There is a bit of understeer but it isn't bad. Very controlled and it is only apparent going into a corner too hot. Once you scrub off the excess speed, you can gas it and tighten your line right up.

    The rumble strips in turn one and eleven can sometimes upset the car. Usually by allowing excessive wheelspin. Once it starts, if you stay on the gas you can shift all the way into sixth gear and still be redlined and spinning.

    TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 20

    Versatility

    The car is flexible enough to allow quite a bit of versatility. With minimal understeer, good brakes, and the ability to induce oversteer if you want, gives the versatility a boost.

    TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 16



    BATTLE MONSTER

    The battle monster showed up and gave it a go. I guess he didn't know anything about Aussie cars because the result was the same as all the other races. This time to a 4.034 beating. You would think he would learn.

    TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 18

    Improvement Over Stock

    Here is the largest improvement over the stock time yet. 11.177 seconds quicker. The stock Holden doesn't handle badly at all. It is just underpowered. Mafia_boy fixed that with the addition of the supercharger. He managed to upgrade the suspension and drivetrain so the basic handling didn't deteriorate. Nice job.

    TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK = 8

    FINAL SCORE = 82



    BMW M3 '04
    VtiRoj
    1'24.925
    Speed

    Power : Horsepower plus torque equals 891. 6th place = 3 pts

    Top Speed: 145.7 mph 5th place = 5 pts

    Acceleration: 103.5 6th place = 4 pts

    TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 12

    Handling

    I've always heard that being loose (oversteer) is the fastest way around the track. The BMW, as tuned by VtiRoj confirms that homily. The car is controllably loose, allowing you to get on the gas sooner. It had the fastest corner speed of all the tested cars at 42.2 mph. on my fastest lap. This car is the definition of easy to use, on my second lap (I parked the first one in the grass) I ran a 1'25.xxx.

    What is there to critique? The brakes? When I put the Subaru's best time on the analyzer with the BMW's there was a much longer stopping time. The Subaru had a higher top speed because you could stay on the gas longer. The Beemer made up the difference on the cornering speed to the tune of 5 mph faster. The graph showing the BMW's braking performance was also a more gradual decline.

    The gearing was interesting. Most corners could be taken in either of two different gears. Corners 1, 6, 10, and 11 all should be taken in 2nd but they can be taken in 3rd. Second gear allows for throttle induced oversteer, allowing greater speed out of the corners. The only thing to watch for is at the lower speeds and 2nd gear is the curbing. You can get out of control in a hurry if the rear tires contact the curb under power.

    With the wing and the suspension tuning where it is the car is not upset through the esses even when going over the rumble strips.

    TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 25

    Versatility

    The BMW has the ability to drive almost any line on the track without losing substantial amounts of time. It is the most flexible of all the heavyweight cars in this contest. There are two places it leads the rest of the field, cornering speed and the easiest to drive. These attributes give the car great versatility.

    TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 20

    BATTLE MONSTER

    The poor monster. He went from bad to worse. He would have been defeated on the first lap if I hadn't put the car into the grass. As it stands he lost by 5.518 sec.

    TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 20

    The tuners are 8 wins and 0 losses. Good Job!!

    Improvement Over Stock

    Beemers usually handle pretty well straight off the showroom floor. This one wasn't any different. It was underpowered, overweight, and poorly geared for the track. I turned a 1'33.853 initial time. That gives a difference of 8.928 seconds quicker than stock. Much of that improvement can be laid at the increased horsepower and stage three diet the car was subjected to.

    The shifting was also vastly improved from stock. All the tuners used FC gearboxes, I think they all used racing flywheels and clutches, as they should. The difference here was the Beemer was very poorly geared and it shifted like it had a transmission from a Cien.

    Great Improvement and the largest improvement of all the heavyweights
    TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 10

    FINAL SCORE = 87
     
  4. DK

    DK Premium

    Messages:
    13,445
    Location:
    Ireland
    Nice to see that TCv5 is back up and running. Bring on TCv6!
     
  5. Kingofweasles

    Kingofweasles

    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    United States
    With all due respect, this topic is for JUDGES ONLY. :irked:

    (Judges, I appologize for adding more clutter to this thread, but I felt this needed to be pointed out!)
     
  6. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    SUPERCAR


    I have made some minor changes to the scoring in the supercar section. I still am using the top speed to award points. If you have the fastest car in the challenge you get 9 pts. Second fastest 8 pts, and so on.

    There are a maximum of 8 points available for the acceleration portion of the speed judging section. So the car that accelerated the most gets 8 pts, second quickest 7, and so on.

    Here is where the change is made. In the power section, it didn't seem right to me that the lighter cars should be penalized because they weren't allowed as much power as the heavier cars. I decided to use the power to weight ratio. It is defined in the rules as the maximum allowed, so whoever got closest to the pwr of 2.785 got 8 points, 7 for second, and so on.
    Another part of the reason I changed this was, in my opinion, it shows attention to detail. The tuners that went the extra step to optimize their entry should be recognized.
     
  7. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name :
    Fudge V12 GT (also known as Ashton Martin Vanquish)

    Car Owner:
    ABud

    Garage:
    Fudge Tuners

    Speed 1'24'138 lap time

    Top Speed:
    152.2: Highest top speed in the contest. 9pts
    Acceleration:
    122.5 mph: Combination of good gearing and brakes that let you get deeper into the corner. thus longer on the accelerator. 5pts
    PWR 6pts
    SPEED SCORE : 20 pts

    Handling :

    Excellent tune, the gearing is a good match for the engine's powerband and the track layout. The brakes work well, allowing the car to begin to slow at the same point as the Monster Skyline, but the Fudge Vanquish is going over 152 mph. compared to the Skyline's 145 mph.

    There is good turn in, with some understeer. The understeer is a low speed push as well as a gradual drift to the outside on the faster corners, such as 8 and 9.

    The rumblies do upset the car some. In 8 and 9 they can be used to help the car to rotate and counteract some of the understeer. They also come into effect in corner 4. Sometimes they can upset the car enough to cause you to scrub off considerable speed sliding sideways on the straight.

    You can get some oversteer but only by hitting the rumble strips. Even using 2nd gear doesn't give much oversteer. You spin the tires but the car doesn't seem to kick out the rear.

    Since we are talking about the gearing, that 2nd gear requires a gentle touch. Third can be used in places but it will cost you time in turn 1 and 10. Down the front straight you can shift into 6th or leave the transmission in 5th. If you stay in 5th you will be deep into the redline area but you don't hit the rev limiter.

    HANDLING SCORE 23


    Versatility

    Excellent versatility score due to the good braking available along with the consistent handling. Having the highest top speed doesn't hurt either.

    VERSATILITY SCORE 17


    Battle Monster

    The Battle Monster time was1'26.752. The Fudge V12 GT's best time was 1'24.138, a difference of 2.614 seconds.
    10 + 5 = 15

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 15


    Improvement Over Stock

    My time with the stock Vanquish was 1'32.416. The handling was better in the stock car. There almost wasn't any understeer. Even in first gear going around the hairpin the car turned and didn't push to the outside. Now whether the stock car just didn't have the power to cause the understeer or was it induced by the tuner, I don't know. All I am able to say is that the handling is not as good as stock.
    What was changed positively was the transmission , both the gearing and the lazy shifting were improved. The brakes were also greatly enhanced. The car shed quite a bit of weight and gained substantial amounts of horsepower. The pwr ended up at 2.812. Remember the max pwr was set at 2.750.
    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE: 6


    [SIZE="5"]FINAL SCORE 81[/SIZE]
     
  8. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    Jaguar XKR Coupe
    Car Owner
    Drifting24/7
    Garage
    Speed 1'27.692

    Top Speed
    145.1 0
    Acceleration
    107.7 mph 2
    PWR
    3.413 0
    SPEED SCORE 2

    Handling

    The car handles well with some understeer in the corners. There is a delay on turn in. The back of the car stays planted, which is just as well with the weight of this car. If the back did get out of line I doubt if it could be brought back.
    The gearing on the Jag is good but not optimized for the track. In a couple of places there is an awkward shift that must be made or go into the rev limiter. A minor change in gearing would have prevented that.
    There is virtually no wheel spin with the car, but there wasn't any with the stock car either.
    It has racing brakes with no controller and drifting24/7 even says in his comments that "Braking is a bit weak for this car." Why not attempt to fix this?


    HANDLING SCORE 15


    Versatility

    The versatility of this car is hard to measure. By definition it is a Supercar but it runs Middleweight times. When put up against its peers it is sorely lacking. It doesn't have Supercar handling or lap times.

    VERSATILITY SCORE 8

    Battle Monster


    This is the first race that the Monster won. I will say this about him, there are no signs of graceful victory.
    The lap time for the Jag was 1'27.692 compared to 1'26.752 for the monster.

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 9


    Improvement Over Stock

    There were some improvements over stock as witnessed by the quicker lap times. The stock time was 1'31.929 and the new and improved time was 1'27.692. The car makes me think of the cars we built when I was a kid. We added a bunch of horsepower and really didn't mess too much with the rest.
    The brakes were upgraded to racing, no controller. The transmission was upgraded to full custom, then not customized. No wing attached. It ended up with a pwr of 3.413.


    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 2


    FINAL SCORE 36
     
  9. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    RVV N3 CLS
    BMW M3 CSL '02
    Car Owner
    VTiRoj
    Garage
    RVV
    Speed 1'24.945


    Top Speed
    148.3 mph 4pts 3

    Acceleration
    110.8 mph 3pts 4

    PWR
    2.904 3pts

    SPEED SCORE 10

    Handling

    The M3 CSL as tuned by VTiRoj is a very easy to use car. It has very little understeer, with some easily controllable lift off oversteer . Using that oversteer is good for helping out the lap times. There is some minor understeer under braking and, of course, whenever you go into a corner too fast.

    The gearing very good, without being busy. It takes into consideration the track and the engine's powerband.

    Braking is improved from stock. One of the things I noticed about this car was its consistency. I could run lap after lap and not have the times vary more than a couple of seconds. It doesn't require constant, extremely focused attention to get a good lap. After a short time you realize that there really isn't any more performance to be had. This car should make a good endurance type racer. I don't know how it is on tires but with the consistent lap times and ease of use it seems to be tailor made for the longer races.

    ]HANDLING SCORE 22[/COLOR]


    Versatility

    The versatility of this car is fairly good. You can use multiple lines around the track and get a comparable result. There is a choice of gears to use in the different corners

    VERSATILITY SCORE 14

    Battle Monster

    The M3 CSL defeated the Battle Monster, 1'24.945 to the Monster's 1'26.752 for a difference of 1.807 sec. So the score is 10 + 4 = 14.

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 14

    Improvement Over Stock

    The stock time was 1'31.351sec. The tuned time was an improvement of 6.4 sec. Not a bad improvement in lap times. The stock car handled better than the tuned vehicle. Not substantially better but somewhat better.
    In my opinion the tuned car was not maximized for the Challenge. The weight to power ratio was only 2.904 to 1. The rules allowed for a 2.785 to 1 ratio. That means the car could have had another 24 horsepower and still been within the rules, and that is without adding ballast. As close as this competition is, and the bragging rights available, I don't know why the garages seemingly haven't gone all out to win.
    This isn't just this car. I am going to point out the others as we go on. I don't think I can give out maximum improvement over stock points to a car that is very far off on the wpr. To me it is not paying attention to the details
    .

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 5


    FINAL SCORE 65
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  10. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    Aston Martin DB9 coupe
    Car Owner
    Jonn 79
    Garage
    Speed 1'24.619


    Top Speed
    149.8 6

    Acceleration
    106.7 0

    PWR
    2.851 4


    SPEED SCORE 10


    Handling

    The handling is much different than the stock car's. There is understeer into the corner, then the front grips as the back begins to come around giving an oversteer finish. Part of the understeer is due to the somewhat high entry speeds. The slowest speed attained in the final hairpin was 43.1 mph and with the liftoff oversteer, you are allowed to get back on the gas before half way around the corner. This gives excellent drive onto the front straight.
    The car is predictable and even with the under and the oversteer it is stable. The corner curbing has little effect on the handling, allowing them to be used to effectively widen the track without too much trepidation.
    Braking is good. When compared with the Battle Monster's braking you can see that less time is spent on the brakes with the DB9, and that when graphed out, there is a steeper braking curve.
    The gearing is satisfactory. There is enough flexibility in the engine to allow you to either shift into 6th or power into the redline in 5th down the front straight. Throughout the track you find you are allowed choices and this is without sacrificing lap times.
    When you read the description of the handling you are inclined to believe the car is a pain to drive. No, instead it actually works well. The understeer is not too bad and the oversteer allows you on the throttle early. If you are going to have them they are in the right place for decent lap times
    All in all a fast, consistent, and stable tune.


    HANDLING SCORE 22


    Versatility

    The DB9, as tuned by Jonn 79, is a versatile performer. The driver can be pushed off his preferred line, or just plain miss his preferred line, and all is not lost. If you aren't in the middle of the gravel trap, you still have a chance.
    Part of this car's versatility is in ease of use. There aren't issues with wheelspin, instability anywhere on the track, or any other major faults. Actually the car becomes like the M3 CSL almost boring once it is figured out.

    VERSATILITY SCORE 19

    Battle Monster

    The Monster once again went from Godzilla to gecko. The DB9 toured Montegi East in1'24.619 or 2.133 seconds quicker than it did.
    10+4=14
    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 14


    Improvement Over Stock

    There is an improvement of almost 6.5 seconds, so obviously there have been some beneficial changes made. The stock tune showed a little understeer, very long gearing, not much in the way of braking, with great stability.
    The tuned version has, without the addition of major horsepower still showed a considerable increase in speed, mainly due to gearing changes. The increase in speed is contained with the suspension changes fairly well. The stock car was a little understeery, the tuned car is also. The stock car didn't have discernable oversteer, while the tuned does. However the oversteer actually helps you get around the track so I hesitate to call it a fault
    The pwr is pretty close a 2.851, so I feel this is a pretty maxed out tune.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 8


    FINAL SCORE 73
     
  11. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    Jaguar XKR R-Performance '02
    Car Owner
    Adamgp
    Garage
    Speed 1'24.727


    Top Speed
    151.7 mph 8

    Acceleration
    114.2 mph 6[/COLOR] 7

    PWR
    2.802 7


    SPEED SCORE [COLOR="Red"[s]]21[/s][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]22



    Handling

    Good gearing for the powerband and the track. Fifth or sixth gear are appropriate for the main straight, second or third gear for the first turn. You almost always have an option.
    There is liftoff oversteer along with power push or understeer when entering a corner. I call it power push because you must let off the throttle to stop the pushing, so the front tires can gain grip. Both the push and the looseness are controllable.
    Braking is better than stock but not by much. Although, since the speeds are quite a bit higher than stock any improvement is noteworthy.

    HANDLING SCORE 21


    Versatility

    Good versatility with the choices between different lines enhanced by the gear selections and the controllable under and over steering available. You are allowed to get sideways coming out of turn 1, use third gear instead of downshifting into turn 2. It all works. It would work better with more brakes though.

    VERSATILITY SCORE 17


    Battle Monster

    Thankfully the Battle Monster lost and went back to his brooding.


    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 14

    Improvement Over Stock

    This car is quite an improvement over stock with an improvement of 7.202 seconds. I wish two things would have been improve that weren't , first the brakes, and second the sound. The thing sounds like a overpowered vacuum cleaner with a sock caught in the inlet.
    There was a stage 3 weight reduction, along with a substantial horsepower increase, the tuned suspension and well adjusted gearing, finally the pwr ended up at 2.802, pretty close to the max allowed.


    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 9



    FINAL SCORE 82 83
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  12. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    FPV F6 Typhoon R Spec

    Car Owner
    mafia_boy

    Garage
    Grease Monkey Engineering

    Speed 1'25.297


    Top Speed
    150.2 7

    Acceleration
    111.2 4 5

    PWR
    2.849 5


    SPEED SCORE 16 17


    Handling

    Let's start going down the main straight. The first thing you find is you have a choice in gearing. If you wind the engine to the redline before shifting you don't need 6th gear. If you short shift you will find an extra shift into 6th and actually be quicker, but it is your choice.
    At the end of the straight you slam on the brakes, and find that at best they are fair, not even good. Then you discover understeer while braking. You are going too deep into the corner and still too much speed, so you hope for the best and turn the wheel. No that doesn't work , you just keep going straight. Finally you scrub off enough speed to let off the brakes and you turn. Second or third gear? You have that choice. Second gear accelerates more quickly, if you control the throttle properly, and don't get too much wheel spin. Even if you use second you will shift into third before turn two. So third gear is safer to use out of turn one. If you want third gear is good to use until turns four or five. Now back to the understeering issue. There is understeer while braking, there is understeer while accelerating. You can get some beneficial oversteer in a couple of places, like turn 9, but for the most part understeer is king
    Gearing, don't even think about 1st gear. Second gear can be your friend if you are cautious with it. If you are too imprudent with the throttle in 2nd , at lower speeds, you will get massive wheel spin on the straights, and possible spinouts on curves. Third gear can be upset by the corner curbing if you are giving full throttle. Other than these minor, controllable, issues the gearing is spot on, offering a variety of driving styles. One thing to remember is you are dealing with over 600 ft lbs of torque and over 600 horsepower in a very heavy car. It is impressive that it handles at all.

    HANDLING SCORE 17


    Versatility

    The versatility is OK at best Yes, there are the understeer issues that limit lines available and the brakes further limit your options, but there is flexibility with the gearing and enough speed to run with the big boys. One last positive (?) is the car's weight. Your competitors usually don't have enough bulk to push you out of your line.

    VERSATILITY SCORE 16


    Battle Monster


    The Battle Monster went down to another defeat. 1'25.295 to the Monsters's 1'26.752. This translates to a 1.457 mov.

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 13


    Improvement Over Stock

    The F6 Typhoon as tuned by mafia_boy is a high powered version of the stock car. When I used the analyzer and compared the stock and tuned versions of the car, I found that the corner speeds were virtually identical, and the braking rates were the same. I just had to brake earlier to make the corner with the tuned car.
    The only improvement over stock shown by the analyzer was a large increase in speed, mainly straight line speed.
    As far as driveability goes the stock was a lot easier to drive, you could get on the gas much earlier than with the tuned version. You didn't have to worry about melting the tires in 2nd gear and there was much less understeer.
    Positives with the tuned version include the before mentioned horsepower increase, and the much better gearing. Shift times were also improved.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 2


    FINAL SCORE 64 65
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  13. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    Nissan 350Z GT Limited Edition '05

    Car Owner
    mcsqueegy

    Garage
    N/A

    Speed 1'24.201


    Top Speed
    149.7 5

    Acceleration
    107.1 1

    PWR
    2.785 8


    SPEED SCORE 14

    Handling

    The Nissan doesn't have the best top speed, doesn't have the best cornering speed, doesn't have the best brakes, but it does have the second best lap time in the Supercar segment. I think there are two areas that stand out pwr is dead on the limit at 2.785, the other is in the gearing. It seems to be totally customized for this track, allowing the engine to be used to the maximum.
    There is turn in under steer. You need to brake rather hard in the straight, then turn, about midway through you can hit the throttle. How hard to hit the throttle is determined by what gear you happen to be in. There is some oversteer available for your use. If you toss the rear out too much you will lose time. The quick way around is a combination of the over and under steering.

    HANDLING SCORE 22

    Versatility

    Versatility is better than the average with this car. I found myself going down the main straight, braking too late and downshifting, finally getting slowed just before the grass. Let off the brakes and give it throttle in first gear and pull out. Yes, I lost time but being able to use first gear without going up in tire smoke is a plus. All six gears are useable.
    There are a lot of lines open to use with this tune. You can, on most occasions, have a choice of gears to use. Don't be afraid to downshift and hammer the throttle. It will usually tighten up your line.

    VERSATILITY SCORE 17

    Battle Monster

    Once again the Monster went down to a crushing defeat. The Nissan ran a 1'24.201 lap time

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 15

    Improvement Over Stock

    The most obvious improvement is in the pure speed. Top speed with the stock car is 123.7 mph, with the tuned car 149.7. Major increase as expected. The pwr was spot on at 2.785. Perfect. The gearing is very good, as well as the improved shift times.
    The tuned 350Z isn't upset by the curbings or by the esses. Brakes are OK but so are the stock brakes.
    Other than the increased horsepower the biggest change from stock is in the increased under steer. The stock car has very little under steer, otherwise the feel of the stock and tuned is very much the same. I can't give the points I would like because the understeer is much more noticeable than stock.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 7


    FINAL SCORE 75
     
  14. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name :
    Jaguar XJ 220 '92

    Car Owner:
    Kingofweasles

    Garage:
    Fudge Tuners

    Speed 1'24.301


    Top Speed:
    152.2: 9

    Acceleration:
    123.5: 8

    PWR
    2.785 8


    SPEED SCORE : 25

    Handling :

    Plow, push, understeer, no matter what you call it, you must get used to it if you want to drive this car. The car is quick but braking is not good at all. The balance controller is set at 4/3. That seems weak to me. The front straight with the 151mph speed is a little intimidating because not only are you going very fast, the brakes don't work, and you know that the car won't turn when you want it to.
    Gearing is good. There is a proper gear for each corner, and many times there is a secondary choice to use if you wander out of the preferred line.

    There is some wheelspin in 2nd gear but it is easily controlled even with the d-pad buttons.

    HANDLING SCORE 16


    Versatility

    The car's versatility is mainly due to its speed. While there is some flexibility in lines due to power and the raw speed available, these benefits are at least partially taken away by the understeer and the uncertainty of cornering it creates.

    .
    VERSATILITY SCORE 17


    Battle Monster

    The Battle Monster didn't fare too well with the Jaguar XJ220. The stock time of 1'27.155 was only four tenths of a second off the Monster's best time. The Jag posted a best of 1'24.301 for an improvement of 2.451 seconds over the Monster.
    10+5=15

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 15

    Improvement Over Stock

    There was an improvement of about 2.8 seconds over the stock time. There wasn't much improvement over the stock handling. It was just more of the same with understeering and weak braking
    .
    IMPROVEMENTR OVER STOCK SCORE: 5


    FINAL SCORE 78
     
  15. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    Project Motegi – Ford Falcon F427 GT

    Car Owner
    CamryFan

    Garage

    Speed 1'26.067


    Top Speed
    147.4 2

    Acceleration
    106.9 0

    PWR
    3.245 1

    SPEED SCORE 3

    Handling

    OK, let's start with the first thing you notice when driving this car. The acceleration is good, not great, but good nonetheless. Next are the brakes, when you hit them at the end of that adequate acceleration you realize they are not up to the task the motor gives them. When you finally get slowed and turn into the first turn you discover under steer. The actual turn in isn't bad but under acceleration or braking there is understeer. In the lower gears and sharper corners the understeer can be changed into oversteer with the throttle. Corner 9 allows oversteer in third gear if you hit the rumble strips.
    The rumble strips can mess your lap up, especially in the lower gears and tighter corners. You can easily find yourself spinning out.
    The car is fun to drive and somewhat easy to drive . The main thing wrong with the car is the weight. One thousand eight hundred twentyfive kg. Considering the weight this thing handles great. Problem Is this isn't the "see who can make the heaviest car handle challenge".

    HANDLING SCORE 15


    Versatility

    The Falcon has limited versatility. The limits are imposed by the weight and the understeer. When racing with this car your best bet is to outbrake the AI. Trying to just pass on the straight shows that you don't have the straight line speed needed. The outside line is there for the taking but the Falcon already understeers, so if you start out outside that just means you will be in the dirt sooner.
    .
    VERSATILITY SCORE 12


    Battle Monster

    The Battle Monster loses by .685 sec.

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 10.5


    Improvement Over Stock

    The only true improvements over stock are the increased power, and the transmission , clutch, and flywheel. The transmission gearing was set up for this track and the other driveline parts allow the quicker shifts.
    The car was not optimized for the track. The pwr of 3.245 is just not serious enough for this kind of competition.
    There was no wing and a brake controller that wasn't tuned.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 3


    FINAL SCORE 43.5
     
  16. Too Old

    Too Old

    Messages:
    44
    Car Name
    Impreza WRX STi - 511

    Car Owner
    Rotary Junkie

    Garage
    RVV Motorworks

    Speed 1'26.555
    1'25.662
    Top Speed
    147.2mph 148.6 3 4

    Acceleration
    119.1 110.1 7 3

    PWR
    2.925 2

    SPEED SCORE 12 9[/COLOR]

    Handling

    This car is so frustrating, there is so much to like about it but the understeer just kills you. The brakes are the best so far in the Supercars, the gearing is great, the horsepower is good for the weight. There is excellent traction and great turn in. The only problem is trying to accelerate after turn in. If you get on the gas just an instant too early you will find yourself mowing grass or sandblasting your undercarriage.
    Really that is all there is to say about this car. When analyzed with the Monster's run, there is too much braking time. Due to the understeer in my opinion.

    ROTARY JUNKIE'S REVIEW'S REVIEW

    Rotary had some concerns about the review I did on his Subaru Imprezza,mainly because I didn't mention liftoff oversteer or oversteer while braking. Here are my revisions.
    Turn one, when you hit the brakes the car slows in a straight line, good. Just before you get to the corner, you start to turn in, still under braking. The car will allow you to do this, also good. The front end is not turning as sharply as the steering input would indicate. Understeer. You let off the brakes and when the speed gets low enough the front end starts to bite, the line tightens, you get back onto the gas when pointed the correct angle to stay off the grass. Understeer, pure and simple.

    Now for turn two, you hit the brakes and turn in sharply. You are going at a slower speed and the front bites much more quickly, but it still slides. However the difference is that the rear also slides and now you are in a four wheel understeering drift, it is short lived and then comes turn three.

    Once straightened out from turn two, back onto the throttle hard, you turn in early let off the gas so the front end bites, and then the rear starts to rotate, and you get back onto the gas to head for turn four. Oversteer.
    Three corners and three different handling traits, within limits you can vary the handling in the different corners. For example in turn one, I can get the understeering , as described above, or the four wheel understeering drift, I've been unable to get the oversteer.

    I still stand by the statement that the main handling trait of this car is understeer

    I am not changing the score for the handling however as I feel the score still was valid.


    HANDLING SCORE 20

    Versatility


    There is plenty of versatility here as long as you remember to be in the right place for the next corner. The drift to the outside on every turn limits the available lines.


    VERSATILITY SCORE 14 16

    Battle Monster

    The Monster is back to being a gecko. The Subaru Impreza WRXsi posted a time of 1'26.555 1'25.662 compared to the 1'26.752.

    BATTLE MONSTER SCORE 10 12

    Improvement Over Stock

    I can't give major points in the improvement over stock category. Yes the car stops good, do did the stock one, the tuned version plants the power to the pavement without spinning the tires, so does the stock car. The unturned version has some usable liftoff oversteer, the tuned car doesn't. Both vehicles exhibit under steer, the stock one has less.
    The places the tuned car has an advantage are in the gearing, length of time to make a gear change, and in pure raw speed.
    One final note concerns the pwr of 2.925. To me that isn't close enough to the max.

    IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK SCORE 5[/SIZE] 7


    FINAL SCORE 61 64
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  17. TOURNIQUETFAN

    TOURNIQUETFAN

    Messages:
    237
    I shall be testing all RR cars out of here to.