Introduction:
I am Too Old. In more ways than one!! I started playing GT4 when it first came out and played GT3 prior to that. I had a gameshark and didnt take it too seriously. I quit playing after about a year, didnt even have the PS2 hooked up, for even more years. Then about six or seven months ago I hooked it up and got hooked.
I have 99.8% complete (mission 34 escapes me). I have only 8 golds, all the rest are silver. Ill freely admit even all the silvers didnt come easy to me. I know Im not nearly as fast as most of you are but it should work out because Ill be equally slow for everyone
Judging
Speed
I have tried to take as much subjective opinion out of the judging process as I could. The first is speed, further broken down into ; power, acceleration, and top speed on course. Power, to me is tough to define. I could use pure horsepower numbers, but with the variety of cars and weights it just doesnt seem right. One could just pick a heavier car and gain extra power points. That doesnt seem fair to me. What if you combined horsepower and torque numbers for each car? That is what I have chosen to do.
The acceleration portion of the speed equation is one I feel can be measured. Since we have to get the top speed on the course already, I will get the slowest speed at the hairpin just before the front straight. The difference between the two should be a decent indicator of acceleration.
The max speed on the course is pretty straight forward and doesnt need explanation
What I have done is assign the three speed variables a value. Top speed is worth up to 9 points for the fastest car and down to 2 for the slowest. Power and acceleration are valued from 8 down to 1 point for the lowest car. Since there are 8 cars in the contest and there is a max of 25 points available, I feel this should work.
Handling
Now this is pretty subjective. I am getting the corner speed already to figure the acceleration, but the turn in, braking, understeer, oversteer, gearing, ect., are a little more a matter of feel.
Versatility
This should be pretty easy to determine. Either the car can or cant allow multiple lines. To me this will also show if the car is forgiving of your mistakes. Im sure I will test this part completely with the number of mistakes I make.
Battle Monster
Straight forward. The rules are the rules.
Improvement Over Stock
A combination of decreasing the lap time from stock,(Duh) and containing the inevitable increasedspeed and power.
Now with some of the preliminaries out of the way, lets see if we can get some reviews done
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Mazdaspeed 6 AWD
Jonn79s entry
Lap time is 127.470 6th place
SPEED
Power figure is 455+426 for a total of 881 8th place for 1 pt
Top Speed is 146.0 3rd place for 7 pts
Acceleration is 110.5 1st place for 8 pts
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 16
Handling
Corner speed is 35.5mph
I put a lot of miles on this car and have come to several conclusions. The first is that the car has the turning radius of a fire truck, combine this with the inclination to understeer and you have a tough combination to work with.
Jonn states that he has" the understeering beast in check", well, not so much in my opinion.
Turn in is rather slow at speed. What seems to work as well as anything else is to brake before the corner, turn, then hit the brakes again. This seems to shift enough weight to the front tires so they start to bite. Dont hit the throttle next though, coast around, then throttle.
The gearing was good even if it was busy. You hit 5th gear at the start/finish line and are into the redline area of the tach in 6th gear by the end of the straight. You are not into the rev limiter however. You do have a gear for all occasions on the track. I did find myself gearing down one too many gears occasionally
The brakes were pretty good. They allowed good speed on the straights and never upset the car when they were applied.
Hammer the throttle as hard as you want, there is all the power to the pavement. Wheelspin is not an issue.
Oversteer is totally nonexistent. I dont think you can induce it with this car.
The only thing left is what I call, ease of use. This is not an easy car to use. You can get some decent lap times with it but only with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.
TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 10
Versatility
Unfortunately there is almost none here. I can use a limited number of lines to get times in the low 1 30s, but I think there is only one way for this car to get into the 127 range. This is the least versatile car in the group.
TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 6
BATTLE MONSTER
My Battle Monster time is 130.443. ( Yeah, yeah, I know it is slow, but so is everything else.) Jonns Mazdaspeed 6 time with me driving was 127.470. The challenger beat the Monster by 2.973 secs. Not too bad at all.
TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS =16
Improvement Over Stock
I drove the stock car to a time of 1 36.185 time. That figures out to a difference of 8.715 seconds improvement over stock. Once again, not too bad. What if you left the tuning stock, but added the listed horsepower increases and weight reductions. How much difference is due to what I call tuning: transmission, suspension, lsd, all those other things. Jonns car, with just the weight and horsepower changes from stock, clocked 132.159 or 4.026 second improvement. That is almost half of the improvemenrt. Suspension, lsd, wing, ect. Account for a reduction of another 4.689 seconds.
I did notice that when driving the stock car turn in was better and the tendency to understeer was not as pronounced as after the mods were made. It could be just the increased speed magnifying the problem areas.
TOTAL IMPROVEMENT POINTS = 9
FINAL SCORE = 57
VIPER GTS 99
Adamgps entry
Lap time is 125.575
SPEED
Power figure is 465 horsepower +499 ft lbs of torque for a total of 964 3rd place = 6 points
Top Speed is 148.1 mph 1st place = 9 pts
Acceleration is 109.9 4th place = 5 pts
Here is a surprise. The Mazda ends up with a better acceleration number. The reason is the top speed should be higher, but you are forced to slow early because of the terrible brakes.
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 20
Handling
The corner speed is 38.2 mph taken at the slowest part of the final hairpin.
This is one of those fun cars to drive. It doesnt take you long to figure out what is needed to go fast. The car starts with pretty good turn in.Then understeer at slower speeds. At higher speeds there is oversteer when you let off the throttle or hit the brakes What is needed to go even faster though, is brakes. They seem almost nonexistent, until you drive it stock, then you find out what nonexistent really is.
The oversteer is controllable and can fairly consistently be induced. I did find that kicking the back end out at the final hairpin and nailing the throttle gives a better acceleration number than driving the normal line.
Speaking of nailing the throttle, the power delivery is very controlled. I dont know if it is the gearing or the lsd or something else but full throttle even in 2nd gear around a sharp turn doesnt give uncontrolled wheelspin. Im not a tuner so I dont know cause, I just see effect.
The gears seem well set up for this track. I would have thought that with the massive torque available that you would be able to use fewer gears but evidently not.
The car doesnt seem to be upset by the rumble strips and you are free to use them as track extenders.
TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 18 pts
Versatility
This car is much more versatile than the preceding car. I found that I could take various lines (sometimes unintentionally) and still end up pretty close to my best time.
TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 14 pts
BATTLE MONSTER
The Monster had no chance at all. I blew him off within the first three laps. The Viper beat the Monsters time by 4.868 seconds. Excellent in my book.
BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 19 pts
Improvement Over Stock
My time with the pure stock Viper was 129.338. That was enough to defeat the Monster by itself. There was almost no power added to the car by the tuner so virtually all the improvements were due to driveability changes. The improvement over stock was 3.763 seconds. Not a lot considering the Mazdas close to 9 second improvement. This is, I guess, is one of the pitfalls of using a car that is fairly competitive off the showroom floor.
The gearing was improved and the car just feels more stable and balanced after the tune. The terrible brakes after the tune were still a substansial improvement over stock. I found myself trying to drag my feet trying to slow for corners. So in spite of the brakes still being awful points are awarded for the improvement.
One last thing about the brakes, actually Adamgp is getting penalized twice for the brakes, once here, and once in the acceleration area where I was forced to hit the brakes prematurely.
IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 3
FINAL SCORE = 74 pts
SKYLINE GT-R V-SPEC II NUR (R 34)
Drifting24/7s heavyweight
Speed
Power is 859 8th place = 1 pt
Top Speed The Skyline peaked out at 145.4 mph. 6th place = 4 pts
Acceleration Top speed of 103.9 mph. 5th place = 4 pts
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 9
Handling
OK, actually better than OK. The turn in was a little sluggish but not too bad at all. This is a fun tune and is easy to use. The rumble strips would sometimes upset the car but not badly enough to deduct points for. Sometimes I would use them to purposely upset the car so I could get the back end to rotate more quickly.
The Skyline did display a minor tendency to understeer when under power at slower speeds. Nothing major though, it also oversteered at high speeds, also nothing major. The understeer and the oversteer were very controllable and easily overcome.
The gearing was very good for this track. You werent constantly rowing through the gears to keep in the engines sweet spot.
TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 16
Versatility
Pretty decent versatility. I could run within about one half second of my best time using a variety of lines through the corners. The car was consistent and the times were repeatable.
TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 15
BATTLE MONSTER
What monster? The stock times were less than two seconds off the best monster time. My best Skyline time was 126.339. This gives a 4.091 beating to the monster.
TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS =18
Improvement Over Stock
The tuned car showed a 5.361 improvement over the stock car. This is pretty substantial decrease in time. I do know that the car feels more stable, turns in better and corners better with the Drifting 24/7 tune.
TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 5
FINAL SCORE = 63
70 DODGE R/T 440
Rotary Junkies heavyweight entry
Speed
The power figure is off the charts at 1032. 1st place = 8 pts
Top Speed is 142.1 mph 8th place = 2 pts
Acceleration is 100.9 mph 8th place = 1 pt
TOTAL SPEED POINTS =11
Handling
Where to start? There is massive everything with this car. Massive weight, massive wheelspin, massive body roll, massive power, and massive fun. This is one of those cars that will teach you patience. If you try to hurry it, its into the grass, into a spin, or into the gravel trap.
The brakes suck, not as bad as the Vipers, but like the Viper, the stock brakes suck even worse. The car loses some acceleration points because you have to hit the brakes too soon.
There is a lot of understeer, especially under power, but there is also throttle induced oversteer available. The stock gearing had you bouncing off the rev limiter down the straights. Rotary Junkie fixed that with a six speed tranny. Suddenly you have choices about what gear to use. Usually the choice was between the high end of 2nd or the lower end of 3rd. Ill be straight and tell that for me usually 3rd was the best choice because I am a button masher, finesse comes hard to me.
The most challenging area for this car is in the esses, because of the huge amount of momentum that this behemoth carries. It doesnt change direction easily or quickly, hence my thoughts on patience.
There are two ways to corner with this thing, try to drive it around and deal with the understeer, or power it around and deal with the oversteer. What seems to work best is a combination of the two.
Understeer is more controllable than the oversteer. When the back end comes around it is difficult to control, it wants to keep on going into a spin. There is just a lot of weight and momentum to try and deal with.
The power and torque are hard to deal with using the d-pad buttons. You can do it but you have to bring your A game to the table. A little too much and instant meltdown. Caution is the key here.
Ease of use? Not really. It is too touchy on the gas and too much weight and momentum to be easy to drive fast.
HANDLING POINTS = 10
Versatility
Actually, the car is more versatile than initial impressions would indicate. With the ability to kick out the rearend available it increases the number of ways around the corners. You can mix and match lines and still get a comparable lap time. I did run this car on the Family Cup. I didnt have much confidence and started on 0 difficulty. I won. I passed the lead car at corner six. I then tried difficulty three, then five , and lost (4th place) on level 7. The car is better than expected.
VERSATILITY POINTS = 15
BATTLE MONSTER
The monster got his ass kicked again. The big blue whale got around the track in 128.987. Admittedly this is the slowest time recorded so far, but it still counts as a win.
BATTLE MONSTER POINTS =13
Improvement Over Stock
With an improvement of 7.701 seconds over stock the big Dodge isnt looking too shabby, I believe that the biggest improvement was giving the Dodge some legs. It was into the limiter way before the first corner. Top speed increased by over 20 mph at two places on the course. Rotary also changed the suspension settings and they also came into play. The corner speed improved from a stock speed of 36.5 mph to 41.2 mph.
I had to check because the car doesnt feel that different. It still rolls, slides and performs various contortions getting around the track. It just does everything more quickly.
IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 7
Note: I have driven and rode in several of the muscle cars that are in the game, back in the day. The brakes were not as bad as they are in the game. They did wallow and lean a lot but still would corner better than the game gives credit for. This was also done on bias belted tires. Ive driven big block Chevrolets with 4 speeds and up to 4.56 gears on the street (gas was cheap) without uncontrollable wheelspin. You could get that kind of wheelspin but you had to try some.
FINAL SCORE = 56
JAGUAR XK-R SPORT
CamryFans Heavyweight
Lap Time 128.101
Speed
Power figure is 903 5th place = 4 pts
Top Speed is 142.2 7th place =3 pts
Acceleration is 102.7 mph 7th place = 2pts
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 9
Handling
This is one of the better handling cars, but it doesnt show up in the lap times. The car turns in well, the gearbox works well with the engines powerband. The car puts all its power to the pavement, even when coming out of the hairpin in second gear with full throttle, it doesnt lose its composureThe brakes are adequate, I wouldnt say an improvement over stock, but adequate. The suspension soaked up the rumble strips pretty well, I even tried to use the rumblies to break the rear loose to help around the hairpin. You can get the car to rotate that way but then that grip hits and stops you from improving your time. I never thought I would be complaining about too much grip!
The cars corner speed was 39.5 mph So far the second slowest . The car gets me, it feels good, easy to drive, almost boring to drive, but the times are slow. There just isnt enough horsepower or there is too much weight to allow this car to compete with the others as well as it might.
This car feels like it has full aids on all the time. You get the feeling that you are restricted from straying out of the approved line.
TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 15
Versatility
I dont think the car allows much in the way of versatility. You have to drive the same lines to get the comparable times. Yes, there is some flexibility but not much. There is no ability to throw the car into a turn, jump on the gas and power out. The car is true to its roots; fast, comfortable, smooth, safe. Not a sporty, boy racer bone in its body
TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 9
BATTLE MONSTER
Once again the monster was slain. This time by 2.342 seconds.
TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 15
Improvement Over Stock
There was a 3.3 second improvement over the stock cars time. It isnt much improvement compared to the other cars we have tested. The tuning here was more minor tweaks, than major helps
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TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 3
FINAL SCORE = 51
Subaru Impreza WRX STI spec C
King of Weasles
Lap time of 1'25.654. Amost a tie with the Viper
Speed
Power Figure came out as 924 4th place = 5 pts
Top Speed was 147.6 mph 2nd place = 8 pts
Acceleration was 110.4 mph 2nd place = 7 pts
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 20
Handling
Obviously, with this kind of lap time, this car handles pretty well. The gearing matches up well with the powerband of the engine and the track layout. The brakes work well. They never upset the car whether they are applied in a straight line or around a corner. It is a good thing braking while turning is available because the Subaru does have a bit of understeer. When you tap the brakes it will tighten up your line. Admittedly, you are going fast enough that most other cars would have you into the grass or gravel at that same point.
I don't feel that there is any oversteer. Going through the esses onto the second straight, you can get the rear of the car out, but to me that is more of a drift than oversteer. I wish there was some throttle inducible oversteer. In some of the tight corners, especially the final hairpin, I believe there is a lot of improvement available if you could just get the back of the car to rotate.
All in all I really like what the King has done with this car. The tune allows the car to be fast but at the same time gives the driver a pretty stable platform to work with.
HANDLING POINTS = 22
Versatility
The car with its blazing speed is also very versatile. I was able to stay within a second of my best time consistently. Occasionally I would get a new fastest time. Good times! These were different lines all over the track. I tried to run the final turn high, low and in the middle. I went in high and came out low, and did the opposite. This is the most versatile car so far.
VERSATILITY POINTS = 17
BATTLE MONSTER
He didn't show up for the party
BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 19
Improvement Over Stock
8.753 seconds. That pretty well says it all
IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK = 7
FINAL SCORE = 85
HSV VY Super-Clubby Prototype (Holden Commodore SS)
mafia_boy
Speed
Lap time of 126.409.
Power figure is a whopping 1002 2nd place = 7 pts
Top Speed of 145.9 at the end of the main straight. 4th place = 6 pts
Acceleration was 110.4 mph. 2nd place = 7 pts
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 20
Handling
There is a lot to be said here. There is very good acceleration with excellent brakes, in spite of no brake controller. (Thanks for saving me the money.) The car stopped fast and straight.
Cornering was good. The car has excellent turn in. I liked the fact that there was a choice of gears for most corners. The first corner I started taking in third gear with an upshift into 4th before turn two. I would stay in 4th until the straight. Something that helped a lot was the fact that you could turn and get onto the gas early and your line would tighten up instead of plowing to the outside.
There is a bit of understeer but it isn't bad. Very controlled and it is only apparent going into a corner too hot. Once you scrub off the excess speed, you can gas it and tighten your line right up.
The rumble strips in turn one and eleven can sometimes upset the car. Usually by allowing excessive wheelspin. Once it starts, if you stay on the gas you can shift all the way into sixth gear and still be redlined and spinning.
TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 20
Versatility
The car is flexible enough to allow quite a bit of versatility. With minimal understeer, good brakes, and the ability to induce oversteer if you want, gives the versatility a boost.
TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 16
BATTLE MONSTER
The battle monster showed up and gave it a go. I guess he didn't know anything about Aussie cars because the result was the same as all the other races. This time to a 4.034 beating. You would think he would learn.
TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 18
Improvement Over Stock
Here is the largest improvement over the stock time yet. 11.177 seconds quicker. The stock Holden doesn't handle badly at all. It is just underpowered. Mafia_boy fixed that with the addition of the supercharger. He managed to upgrade the suspension and drivetrain so the basic handling didn't deteriorate. Nice job.
TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK = 8
FINAL SCORE = 82
BMW M3 '04
VtiRoj
1'24.925
Speed
Power : Horsepower plus torque equals 891. 6th place = 3 pts
Top Speed: 145.7 mph 5th place = 5 pts
Acceleration: 103.5 6th place = 4 pts
TOTAL SPEED POINTS = 12
Handling
I've always heard that being loose (oversteer) is the fastest way around the track. The BMW, as tuned by VtiRoj confirms that homily. The car is controllably loose, allowing you to get on the gas sooner. It had the fastest corner speed of all the tested cars at 42.2 mph. on my fastest lap. This car is the definition of easy to use, on my second lap (I parked the first one in the grass) I ran a 1'25.xxx.
What is there to critique? The brakes? When I put the Subaru's best time on the analyzer with the BMW's there was a much longer stopping time. The Subaru had a higher top speed because you could stay on the gas longer. The Beemer made up the difference on the cornering speed to the tune of 5 mph faster. The graph showing the BMW's braking performance was also a more gradual decline.
The gearing was interesting. Most corners could be taken in either of two different gears. Corners 1, 6, 10, and 11 all should be taken in 2nd but they can be taken in 3rd. Second gear allows for throttle induced oversteer, allowing greater speed out of the corners. The only thing to watch for is at the lower speeds and 2nd gear is the curbing. You can get out of control in a hurry if the rear tires contact the curb under power.
With the wing and the suspension tuning where it is the car is not upset through the esses even when going over the rumble strips.
TOTAL HANDLING POINTS = 25
Versatility
The BMW has the ability to drive almost any line on the track without losing substantial amounts of time. It is the most flexible of all the heavyweight cars in this contest. There are two places it leads the rest of the field, cornering speed and the easiest to drive. These attributes give the car great versatility.
TOTAL VERSATILITY POINTS = 20
BATTLE MONSTER
The poor monster. He went from bad to worse. He would have been defeated on the first lap if I hadn't put the car into the grass. As it stands he lost by 5.518 sec.
TOTAL BATTLE MONSTER POINTS = 20
The tuners are 8 wins and 0 losses. Good Job!!
Improvement Over Stock
Beemers usually handle pretty well straight off the showroom floor. This one wasn't any different. It was underpowered, overweight, and poorly geared for the track. I turned a 1'33.853 initial time. That gives a difference of 8.928 seconds quicker than stock. Much of that improvement can be laid at the increased horsepower and stage three diet the car was subjected to.
The shifting was also vastly improved from stock. All the tuners used FC gearboxes, I think they all used racing flywheels and clutches, as they should. The difference here was the Beemer was very poorly geared and it shifted like it had a transmission from a Cien.
Great Improvement and the largest improvement of all the heavyweights
TOTAL IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK POINTS = 10
FINAL SCORE = 87