Tuning Competition Week 12 - RESULTS

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DuckRacer

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Toyota Minolta 88C-V @ Special Stage Route 5

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TS
179

|ncary
165

stiggs
174

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Winner: TS. Congratulations, dude!

Special thanks to XGT Taipan, zefff, and gregc for judging this week. :cheers:
 
gregc's Ratings:

Tuner: TS

Turn-in (entry to corners)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - pretty good

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 7 - not bad, but a tendency towards understeer

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - pretty good, I can get on the power reasonably early

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - pretty solid over the kerbs

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - no major issues here

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - good again

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 6 - mainly slight understeer, but a dab of the brakes in the twisty bits kicks the tail out too unpredictably

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - no major issues here

Missing parts deduction: -1 - R2 tyres not specified

Total Combined Ranking: 60

Final Thoughts: Overall a good, balanced piece of work. The TCS is not too intrusive, and the gearing is good. Just slightly let down by a couple of minor issues.

Tuner: |ncary

Turn-in (entry to corners)
Ranking (1-10): 7 - not bad initially, but fades to understeer

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 6 - not great - try to adjust the line and understeer sets in immediately

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 6 - again, too understeery for my liking, can't get onto the power as early as I'd like

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 7 - not bad, handles kerbs reasonably well

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - no major issues here

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 5 - I found it very twitchy along the straight

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 5 - won't steer if you're even slightly on the brakes

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - no major issues here

Missing parts deduction: -1 - R2 tyres not listed

Total Combined Ranking: 51

Final Thoughts: I didn't really get on with this car unfortunately. Too twitchy on the straights, but then too understeery in the corners. The TCS is a bit too intrusive too. On the plus side, the gear ratios are well chosen.

Tuner: stiggs

Turn-in (entry to corners)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - pretty good

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 7 - understeers a bit too much you try to use throttle to adjust the line

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 9 - excellent - planted, stable and fast

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - not fazed by kerbs

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 8 - no major issues here

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 9 - very good, especially considering the the speeds it reaches

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 6 - bit of a let down here, too understeery on the brakes

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 9 - eye-poppingly fast!

Total Combined Ranking: 64

Final Thoughts: Good work, a demanding but ultimately rewarding drive. Needs to be taken by the scruff of the neck and driven to really get the most out of it. Pity about the braking, my only real gripe.

Final remarks

I thought this would be a fun combination, and it was :) The fastest cars I've ever driven round SSR5 so I had to relearn the track to an extent, which proved interesting in itself, but there is some good work on show here.

The rankings pretty accurately reflect my feelings - stiggs' car was definitely my favourite, managing to keep the car balanced and controlled even with the extra power of the stage 4 turbo. The old saying goes "power is nothing without control" - stiggs' car has got both attributes. Brakes a bit of a let down again from everyone this week though.
 
zefff's Ratings:

I tested the cars over 3 days in 3 sessions of 7 laps each. In each session the running order was changed to balance the feeling I got from running one after the other.

Tuner: Incary

Turn-in
Ranking (1-10): 5

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 7

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 7

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 6

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 4

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Total Combined Ranking: 44

Final Thoughts: Even though the front and rear felt a bit unconnected at times I was very surprised to find I actually liked this cars handling right from the start. Maybe that was down to the tight, solid feel and the zippy, point and go, on rails handling. This car feels like Im playing Ridge Racer! Once you find the optimum corner speeds where the downforce kicks in and the TCS stops chattering, its unreal how this thing can zip around a corner and slingshot you into a straight. Although the TCS was set high, I didnt notice it on track - most of the time. A very fast set up. The fastest of the week infact and quite a safe bet as long as entry speeds to corners were correctly judged.

Strength: Mid corner response, a joy.
Weakness: Handling while braking.

Tuner: Stiggs

Turn-in
Ranking (1-10): 3

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 6

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 6

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 4

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Total Combined Ranking: 39

Final Thoughts: This car was tested 1st in the 1st session and I liked it before I tried to push it to its limits - which are shedding speed and turning in. Even when you are on the line and sitting nicely in a corner, when you push the throttle to hopefully power your way around a corner, you simple power off line towards a wall with understeer. Although fast enough once you learn its limits, this car doesnt seem to have depth in the way it can be controlled so you have to stick to a simple formula to get anywhere in this setup - which doesnt make for much fun through twisty sections.

Strength: Stability.
Weakness: Poor turn in.

Tuner: TS

Turn-in
Ranking (1-10): 6

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 6

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 6

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 7

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 5

Total Combined Ranking: 45

Final Thoughts: Much fun! This setup is very agile which makes it a bit wild but it can still pull fast times while having flexibility and depth for you to push and push past boundaries if you want. Although not the extreme performer in certain areas that the other setups are, this car performs very in all areas and allows you to correct yourself effortlessly when small errors are made. A great quality in a car of this performance where things can go drastically wrong.

Strength: Flexibility and forgiving nature.
Weakness: Turn in.
 
XGT Taipan's Ratings:

Tuner: ncary

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 9

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 10

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 10

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 9

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 9

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 10

Total Combined Ranking: 70 (8.7 Average)

Final Thoughts:
The only setback is the understeer on the turn-in. A little more front camber and a notch or two off the front stabilizer and this car is near perfect (for this track).

Tuner: stiggs

Turn-in (entry to corners)
Ranking (1-10): 8

Mid-Corner response (whether the car under/oversteers mid-corner or holds the racing line well)
Ranking (1-10): 8

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 10

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 9

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 10

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 8

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 10

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 8

Total Combined Ranking: 71 (8.8 Average)

Final Thoughts:
This car is great! Looking at the setup on paper I was very concerned. Rather than neutralising settings you've comprimised them with their respective opposing setting - and it works!

Tuner: TS

Corner exit (how quickly you can exit a corner whilst staying in good control)
Ranking (1-10): 8

Stability (rear end staying in line, car not 'jumping' or feeling skittish in turns)
Ranking (1-10): 10

Grip (start-offs, how much power can be used without the drive wheels losing traction? Does the car oversteer excessively?)
Ranking (1-10): 10

High-speed controllability (whether the car becomes 'frantic' and turns far too sharply at high speeds)
Ranking (1-10): 10

Handling while braking (are you able to easily turn the car while braking, and without going into oversteer?)
Ranking (1-10): 9

Acceleration (how good is it? Is there a lot of traction while doing it?)
Ranking (1-10): 9

Total Combined Ranking: 74 (9.2 Average)

Final Thoughts:
Smooth as silk. Almost the perfect race setup. Runs well over bumps and has little change in grip levels when changing direction quickly. Easily the best overall car in my view.
 
Thanks Judges :)

Now I totally understand how much different driving styles need different set-ups and how they find other set-ups a bit strange, ha.
 
Nice to see a good amount of judges for this week, but I'm surprised at the low number of entries, I thought this would be a hot week! Hmm, unusual to see as many judges as entrants, but never mind :p

(By the way, XGT Taipan, different colour tuners is nice-looking with two or three, but what would you have done if this was Week Five or another week with eight setups :dopey: :lol:)

Well done to all who took part, I can't imagine this was an easy car to tame, but it seems you managed to please the judges! 👍

Thanks to all who judged 👍

DE
 
|ncary
Thanks Judges :)

Now I totally understand how much different driving styles need different set-ups and how they find other set-ups a bit strange, ha.
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No problem, if I ever judge in the future, my driving style is a real MR style... I left-foot-brake A LOT 👍 - and I use ever last rev available.

Don't be shy giving me a tail happy car, half the fun of a GOOD CAR is having something to do... I hate cars that are too easy to drive, so something that needs throttle control is more than welcome.

If any of you were wondering why my scores were so high around the board, it was because I compared them to other settings I've found, and my own included.

For acceleration tests I took all 3 cars to both 400m and 1000m tests and ran them twice, once without turbo - once with turbo (it was the only way i could fairly judge them in comparison because there was some with turbo, and some without. From there I worked out each cars score by their aggrigate time, and then give or take for TC etc.

@ DE: Yeh, I have no idea what I would've done - just hope there's enough colours I suppose! :lol:
 
I generally hate race cars for the most part but actually enjoyed seeing how each tune was approached. Each car did some things extremely well which surprised me after inputting the figures while with raised eyebrows. They were all pretty good but I felt TS's ticked most boxes.

My scores might look low but I took 5 as average and also downgraded scores where TCS had a negative affect. I thought this would be better than any deductions for unmentioned mods - LIKE TYRES!!! :P
 
zefff
I thought this would be better than any deductions for unmentioned mods - LIKE TYRES!!! :P
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

I only deducted 1 y'know :p

Interesting to read the other approaches to scoring, I tend to take the middle way I guess, leaving 9/10's for exceptional characteristics but only dropping to 6/5 or lower with things I don't like.

I also seem to have picked up the DE curse.... :lol:
 
gregc
I also seem to have picked up the DE curse...
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If anyone was going to, it'd be you ;) :p

Interesting that the tyre point deductions are mentioned, I don't actually dock points for not specifying tyres. In fact, a couple of people have managed to specify the wrong tyres and I don't think I penalised that either, although perhaps that does deserve a single point knocked off. It is annoying to get everything for the car, and then realise the damn tyres are wrong, and sometimes I know it's tempting to run the setup anyway and sod the results (don't do that, by the way :dopey:)! So what I do to avoid becoming too angry with tuners is to buy the correct tyres for the car and then save the game before buying any of the other parts. This way, you have the tyres already even if someone decides they don't need to write it :)

I think that if points need to be deducted, do it, don't just take marks off characteristics because then tuners don't realise the mistakes they've made in their listings!

Seems I've unintentionally started a bit of a sermon on the DE Method of judging a Tuning Competition, so I might as well finish with saying that for me, an average characteristic gets 6 points, something I dislike could drop as low as 3 or even 2. Slightly better than something rated average is a 7, good is worth an 8, and 9 goes to something that makes you feel good about being able to do it!
I have never given a ten. I think for me to do so, ever, a car would need to make me take a step back and wonder how the boundaries of reality and possible speed were broken :lol: I like to believe there's always something better out there, so nobody has got a ten yet.

Here endeth the lesson :rolleyes:

DE
 
Agreed DE, nothing gets a 10 unless it makes the car handle at a new level.

What I forgot to mention also for week 12 was that it seemed only one competitor gave the gears more consideration than a simple notch or two adjustment. Although they may have been adequate, who knows what can be achieved if you can get the maximum amount of torque pushing out when its needed most, be it mid-corner or whatever.
 
Forgot to do this earlier in the week, updated leaderboard below - well done to stiggs, who joins the leaderboard having completed 3 competitions 👍

leaderboard_wk12.jpg

Spreadsheet
 
Congrats to all who took part in this weeks comp tuner's and judges alike,
i wont be able to enter for the next few weeks as im off on my hol's.
Not been able to post for the last week as my broad band as die'd.
Anyways congrats one n all
 
yeh, about that whole penalising-for-not-stating-tyre-type thing, I don't feel that a penalty is needed because it is a given that you have to use a certain tyre, just like it's a given that you can't have any ASM or Ballast. None of the settings I judged had Ballast or ASM set as zero, or even have them in the setup.

I just think that rather than one judge making his own decisions on whether to penalise or not, we should all be given the same ground to do it on, by Duck. It doesn't appear to be a fair judging board when 1 judge takes off points and others dont for the very same thing.

Im not aiming anything at you gregc, just thought I'd try to get some feedback from other judges (especially DE) and Duck, so we can organise a way that makes it fair on everybody.

Also there should be a set point deduction for missing parts. Above gregc stated that he only took off 1 point for tyres this week, but last week I'm sure I lost 5 points for it. :indiff:
 
XGT Taipan
yeh, about that whole penalising-for-not-stating-tyre-type thing, I don't feel that a penalty is needed because it is a given that you have to use a certain tyre, just like it's a given that you can't have any ASM or Ballast. None of the settings I judged had Ballast or ASM set as zero, or even have them in the setup.
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I sort of agree - but remembering "no ASM" is easy, especially when TCS settings are specced, and ballast is just never added. On the other hand it's easy to forget to buy the tyres, then suddenly remember it's on R2's/S3's and have to go back and get them. If they're listed it's just easier.

I just think that rather than one judge making his own decisions on whether to penalise or not, we should all be given the same ground to do it on, by Duck.
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Agreed. Just so long as I can dock points for really annoying un-specced stuff :sly: Any thoughts Duck?

Im not aiming anything at you gregc, just thought I'd try to get some feedback from other judges (especially DE) and Duck, so we can organise a way that makes it fair on everybody.
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Nothing personal taken :). I'd agree on feedback from Duck and DE, which leads me onto...

Above gregc stated that he only took off 1 point for tyres this week, but last week I'm sure I lost 5 points for it. :indiff:
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I'm pretty certain that it was last week, if not I'm sure I'll be corrected, that I was struggling with what to deduct for missing parts. I PM'd Duck and DE for some advice on what to do. As a result what would have been a 15 point deduction became much less as we all agreed it was too much. As a result of that conversation I have reduced my deductions for unlisted parts. For me it's now 3-5 for most parts, depending on their importance, and 1 for the tyres.

However, again, I'd agree on a standard for deductions if one can be found that everyone is happy with...
 
XGT Taipan
I just think that rather than one judge making his own decisions on whether to penalise or not, we should all be given the same ground to do it on, by Duck. It doesn't appear to be a fair judging board when 1 judge takes off points and others dont for the very same thing.
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Well, a rule of thumb would be to dock more points (generally 5) for major parts that are missed (suspension, tranny, etc), 2-3 points for more minor parts, a point or so for tires, etc. And that there must be no more than 10 points detucted, total. I'll be stalling the Tuning Competition for at least a month after Week 14 is over, so I'll think of an official system for deducting points, and I'll ask for opinions of it and such.
 
Der Meister (Yep)
I just think that rather than one judge making his own decisions on whether to penalise or not, we should all be given the same ground to do it on, by Duck. It doesn't appear to be a fair judging board when 1 judge takes off points and others dont for the very same thing.
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I disagree with this. It is the right of the judges to deduct points as they see fit for whatever transgressions (Been looking for a way to include that word) or errors in listing parts or settings they choose. We try to make it fair, but having a massive list of rules of 'if' and 'when' would place huge restrictions on the judges, and ignore the flexible measure that is the performance of the car. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say here :)

Der Meister
Also there should be a set point deduction for missing parts. Above gregc stated that he only took off 1 point for tyres this week, but last week I'm sure I lost 5 points for it.
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I don't know about this particular case, but I shall point out the listing the wrong tyres is more serious (in my mind) than not listing them at all.

Duck
Well, a rule of thumb would be to dock more points (generally 5) for major parts that are missed (suspension, tranny, etc), 2-3 points for more minor parts, a point or so for tires, etc. And that there must be no more than 10 points detucted, total.
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This is pretty much the answer I would give.

I will add that if excessive lack of imagination is shown, I may dock a mark for that, for example someone has fitted Racing Suspension and done almost nothing to it (resulting in the car handling badly). Also, if gearing is very poor (resulting in bouncing off the top-gear rev limiter or wasting a gear) I usually deduct a point, or two in exceptionally bad cases. However, if a part has been fitted (such as Fully Customisable Transmission) and not been changed, and there is no problem with the car's performance, I do not deduct points.

These are only really general rules, and the situation makes a difference as with anything. I'm just stating how I usually worked 👍

DE
 

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