Tuning Graphs

[abotiz]

Hi,

I just recently started playing GT6 again.
This time I want to be more "technical" about tuning.

I have attached two images, sorry for the quality.

A:

B:[url=http://postimg.org/image/kemv085sx/][/URL]

I want to know, what can you say about the graphs? Is it possible to say something without including a bunch of other parameters? I know, for a more accurate answer, you need to know as much as possible

E.g. should the white and blue line match? What does it mean if they match etc.

Image A looks "better", Image B looks unnatural - what does the white line mean here? Should it be as high as possible for all RPM and along the blue line?

I have a fairly good idea about the two cars in the picture, I have a favourite, but, it might just be that I can drive one of them better.

I have cropped the specs for the cars, I can show them later if its really necessary.

But really, I just want to hear your opinion on how to look at this graph.

Thank you!
Kind regards
abotiz

 

[ALB123]

The blue line is the amount of horsepower your engine can produce. The white line is the amount of torque the engine can produce. No, they do not have to be equal. The first photo shows a steady increase in torque whereas the second photo shows an engine's dyno graph producing maximum torque at very low RPMs which is very good. More torque = more "pull". A horsepower curve is always going to have an incline and then decline because horsepower is a function of torque.

 

[MrGrado]

The flat torque is possibly realistic. Some RL cars will have power output electronically limited so torque does not exceed a certain amount to maintain longevity of the drive train.

GT6 cars with flat torque have an advantage for tuning to a set PP limit.

The first car (if it were possible) could have flat torque equal to its peak torque all through the lower rpm range without a PP penalty.

As for how much this effects lap speed, some have said its in the RPM range that you don't use (and it will differ from car to car and track to track), but I checked on one of the best lap replays I have saved and I was below peak torque as I went to full throttle more often than not during the lap.

 

[ALB123]

@MrGrado It's a funny coincidence that I just had a conversation about some cars in GT6 that show completely flat torque curves (up until the drop off point, that is). I don't remember exactly what I was told, but it was something along the lines of, "those cars, in real life, do NOT produce a perfectly flat torque curve. It is close, but its not perfectly steady from 1000 rpm to 4000 rpm" (I'm just using those figures as an example). Sadly, I don't remember his explanation, but he said that some car companies like to make that claim when they're actually bending the truth. Hopefully, someone will come along and correct anything that I've mistaken and/or expand on the subject.

 

[abotiz]

Thank you for your replies.

From my experience, torque should not be too high, then the car will slip around the course because the wheel turn so fast and strong that there would be no Grip.

This is not realistic, I feel like cars with too high torque is like having high torque but 0 horsepower, nothing that pushes the car forward. Just being aggressive and spinning at the same spot.

I feel this is the case with many American muscle cars, too high torque at low rpm so the car is almost not drivable.

That's why I began looking at the graphs, what is the optimal shape of the curves.

The car in graph B has higher torque in the lower rpm but is saved by the bigger weight of the car.

 

[jblackrevo9]

Hi,

I just recently started playing GT6 again.
This time I want to be more "technical" about tuning.

I have attached two images, sorry for the quality.

A:

B:

I want to know, what can you say about the graphs? Is it possible to say something without including a bunch of other parameters? I know, for a more accurate answer, you need to know as much as possible

E.g. should the white and blue line match? What does it mean if they match etc.

Image A looks "better", Image B looks unnatural - what does the white line mean here? Should it be as high as possible for all RPM and along the blue line?

I have a fairly good idea about the two cars in the picture, I have a favourite, but, it might just be that I can drive one of them better.

I have cropped the specs for the cars, I can show them later if its really necessary.

But really, I just want to hear your opinion on how to look at this graph.

Thank you!
Kind regards
abotiz

You can use this graph as a way of setting your gears to get greatest performance out of your vehicle.When you set gears that shifts near torque peak then you may experience some or more under steer when cornering depending on the amount of torque. Cars with a wide power band are versatile so if you like you can have a close gear ratio and have your gears shifting at higher rpm's which may have less access to torque but corner very well but the downside to this is your opponent having the same but if there narrow powerband has a lot of torque access at higher revs then that could be a problem.Another problem to look out for is when you downshift or stay on a gear that goes out powerband.This can hurt performance at times but again it depends.This can become complicated if you want to get real technical and depending on race types you are doing like endurance races where you want a balance between power and gas mileage or maximum performance for regular circuit race or drag racing.again the graph shows you the engine capabilities and if it continues to perform at a somewhat steady rate.

 

[eran0004]

Torque and power can be difficult to get a grip on, especially when it comes to the differences between the two units.

Torque is a measure of the force that the engine is producing (converted into a rotational force = torque).
Power is torque * engine speed and is a measure of the effect of the engine.

What then, is the difference between force and effect?

force = mass * acceleration, which gives that acceleration = force / mass. Thus force is what makes the car accelerate.

So it should be enough to measure torque then, right?

Well, yes and no. Yes because in fact, power, or effect, is a measure of torque, or more precisely the rate at which the force or the torque is performing work. And no because to obtain the effect it's not enough to measure only torque, you also need to measure the speed (of the engine).

A car is a body with a certain weight, or mass. Making the car move from one location to another requires work (just like moving your furnitures from one end of the room to the other requires work).

Now, using this analogy, torque would be a measure of how much weight you can carry. Lots of torque means that you can carry not only your desk, but also your sofa and perhaps even your stereo at once. Little torque means that perhaps you need to carry your furnitures one at the time.

Power, or effect, is a measure of how much you can carry multiplied by the speed at which you can carry it. For instance, say that you have a lot of torque, so you can carry lots of weight. But if you only can do that while walking very slowly, your effect would be low because it would take you a long time to walk from one end of the room to the other and it would take a long time for you to move all your furnitures to one end of the room to the other. So even though you're strong, you're working very slowly and thus your effect is low.

But if you have little torque and can't carry very much weight at all, but instead compensate by running, you can easily move all your furnitures faster than the strong guy who could carry a lot of weight but only very slowly. Thus you'd complete the same amount of work in a shorter period of time and you'd have a bigger effect - more power.

Alright, but what if you have an extremely heavy piece of furniture? Having all the power in the world can't help you then, can it? Only torque can move that piece to the other end of the room and thus torque has beaten power once and for all!

That is true. However, there's an invention that will let you trade speed for torque and vice versa: the gearbox. With the help of a gearbox, the guy with little torque trades away some of his speed and gains a proportional amount of torque in return. He can trade so much speed away and gain so much torque from it that he'll be able to lift that extremely heavy piece of furniture AND still be able to move it to the other side of the room faster than the guy with lots of torque. And how can I be so certain that he'll be able to do that faster, even though he just traded away much of his speed? Because although torque and speed varies with the gearing, the effect is constant. Remember, effect is a measure of how quickly a work can be performed, and the guy with the higher effect will always be faster than the guy with the lower effect (provided that they both have access to suitable gearing).

To conclude a much too long post: What you want is power. It doesn't matter if you do drag racing, F1, tractor pulling or rallying: for any task that requires work to be performed, power is what matters, because power tells you the effect, i.e. how quickly the task of moving this mass from point A to point B can be performed.

As for the actual curves: it's easier to stay at peak power with a flat power curve than with a peaky power curve. Peak power is something you only have when the engine is operating at that specific RPM, and a peaky power curve needs closer gearing than an engine with a flat power curve, because the effect losses are greater the further away from the peak you go. If we imagine a hypothetical power curve that's completely flat throughout the entire RPM range, the car wouldn't need more than a single gear, because it would always operate with the same effect.