Turbo or Supercharger?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nyeboy
  • 30 comments
  • 2,449 views
nyeboy

nyeboy

Messages
68
Messages
dragonsrule
I'm buying a V6 Holden Commodore VX in a couple months and I have been tossing up the idea or buying a turbo or supercharger for the car. I can't really decide which to buy, I have somewhat of a good idea of the pros and cons of them both but I'd like to get some other opinions on which would be best.

I'm thinking of doing some racing when I get the car, a bit of drag racing and maybe some circuit racing aswell. The car will be on LPG gas so the turbos better fuel economy isn't really a factor.
 
If you're going to get a supercharger make sure it's a good one, nothing worse than getting some weak factory unit that provides all of 20-30kw extra power.
 
I prefer a turbo because it doesnt suck power from the engine. But a supercharger has no turbo lag so it really depends on the application. For your Holden i suggest a turbo as lag is not as much of a problem with v-6 cars as the turbo should generally be smaller
 
Buy a VL instead?

Personally I reckon it'd be better to spend the extra money on the V8 Version. Commodore V6s have always been pretty meh.
 
A VL is too old and I love the look of the VX. And the V6 Commodores are great cars, but I may end going for the 8 anyway but they're about 3 grand more in the trading post and I can't quite afford that.
 
nyeboy
A VL is too old and I love the look of the VX. And the V6 Commodores are great cars, but I may end going for the 8 anyway but they're about 3 grand more in the trading post and I can't quite afford that.
Click to expand...

Surely a turbo or supercharger system would cost more than the extra $3k anyway? :odd:
 
I prefer supercharger. Better for street use. Instant power, no waiting for it to spool.

Might be partial because I own a supercharged car.
 
eiriksmil
What, the charger? Or the turbo? 'Cause all turbo cars have lag..
Click to expand...

that is not exactly true.. if you fit.. say, a 1.6l Fiesta with a turbo that is meant for Cossie Escort, yes, then you would have some lag. Also, the materials used in the turbine have their effect on lag.. ceramic turbo elemets are lighter, thus it spools faster, but can't withstand much of heat.. steel elements withstand heat, but take more time to spool up due greater inertia..
 
nyeboy
turbos better fuel economy
Click to expand...
It never quite works out that way. There's a lot more to getting more mileage out of a turbo than just putting one on.

I don't know the dynamics of the V6 your car has. Is it really torquey down low? Does it have lots of top-end power? In general it seems that mild/small sueprcharger and turbo setups enhance the powerband pretty evenly across the board--but of course turbos always have lag, whether it's a little or a lot. A blower with a tiny pulley that's making tons of power tends to enhance the mid-range more and struggle at high rpm because of the power needed to spin it--but of course there's still a lot more power everywhere than there was before. A big turbo in general has big lag and boosts high rpm power big time.

If you want a nice smooth powerband they're probably pretty similar in a non-aggressive setup. I personally prefer the whine and instant response of the supercharger over the whoosh and lag of a turbo. Yes, I've driven both types of cars before. The turbo just wasn't exciting. The whine of a supercharger lets you know you're making power, and I just love it.

With either one its fun to scare people driving with their windows down. In the Cobalt my cousin used to roll up next to cars just cruising along, say in 2nd gear with some rpms. Then he'd punch the gas and "WWEEEEEEE", sometimes the people would freak out and jerk the wheel and get mad. Hilarious. Also, a buddy in his SRT4 likes to spool up and blow off right next to cars. That always gets them too.
 
Yeah, superchargers rock. My friend has a '01 Grand Prix GTX, and boy is that thing fun! Just punch the gas and hear that supercharger go to work, as well as watching the handy digital boost gauge! :p
 
Given that its a Vortec 3800, which was designed to take the supercharger, I'd probably go that route. Its a workhorse engine, that's for sure. Although, how much more is the V8 option?
 
Superchargers are best in V models, but fit a turbo if you have either a straight engine or can't fit a supercharger in something with a V engine. Since you have a V6, then you're best off with the supercharger.
 
Benefits of a supercharger: No lag, the cool whine, extra power, generally easier to fit and cheaper.
Benefits of a turbo: power out the wazoo, also adds torque, feeling that kick up your arse

The thing is, a supercharger has to sap power off the engine before you get extra. For example, the supercharger on a Benz SLR pulls 100-ish hp off the engine but adds like 250. that's heavy duty and very expensive. You'll probably get around 50 hp off one you can buy online.

The turbo, on the other hand, can be tuned to reduce lag. Variable Geometry Turbos can solve this, but they're effing expensive (porsche 911 turbo, gt2, veyron all use them). I recommend sequential biturbo systems. one small to eliminate lag, one large for serious boost. check out kits online, and it's really up to you and your wallet.
 
YSSMAN
Given that its a Vortec 3800, which was designed to take the supercharger, I'd probably go that route. Its a workhorse engine, that's for sure. Although, how much more is the V8 option?
Click to expand...

Oh that's right. I forgot that we had Factory Super-Charged V6s.

1105_1.jpg


Can you afford a factory XU6?
 
Leonidae
that is not exactly true.. if you fit.. say, a 1.6l Fiesta with a turbo that is meant for Cossie Escort, yes, then you would have some lag. Also, the materials used in the turbine have their effect on lag.. ceramic turbo elemets are lighter, thus it spools faster, but can't withstand much of heat.. steel elements withstand heat, but take more time to spool up due greater inertia..
Click to expand...

"Some lag"? Haha.. All turbo cars have lag, they lag between when you press the throttle and when they react. Even though some NA cars lack action on low revs (like mine), they have much better response than any turbo car.
 
eiriksmil
"Some lag"? Haha.. All turbo cars have lag, they lag between when you press the throttle and when they react. Even though some NA cars lack action on low revs (like mine), they have much better response than any turbo car.
Click to expand...

Yup. People say turbo lag mean the RPMs at which the turbo fully spools. There is what you are refering to, which is the latency (As I think of it) between getting off and on the gas in the spool range, or how long it takes the turbo to respool even in the rev range it normally spools at.

No matter how well a turbo is tuned, there will be a bit of latency from getting on the gas and getting full power. Unless you have a system that will maintain the turbines speed when the engine is making less exhaust gas (I think Nissan toyed with the idea on the GT-R concept, keeping the turbines spinning with electric motors when the throttle was close), you will not get full power when you get back on the gas, regardless of the engine revs and such. Admittedly, the delay will be a fraction of a second, but it was enough once for me to dial in the wrong amount of counter steer in a turbo car.

Needless to say, I am not much of a fan of turbos in cars. But I also like the rapid throttle response because I like that little bit more control in the corners. And for street use, a super charger would be better as you'd have more torque down low, which is what counts on the street.
 
Casio
Oh that's right. I forgot that we had Factory Super-Charged V6s.

1105_1.jpg


Can you afford a factory XU6?
Click to expand...

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that you could buy the lower spec Holdens, as well as the HSV XU6, with the optional supercharged V6.

Besides that, I'd say try looking for an V8 powered car rather than a V6, the aftermarket is huge and you would be looking at similar power from a super/turbocharged V6 and from an I/H/E LS1.
Fuel economy would suffer but the money spent on a turbo/supercharger set-up could be added onto your original cash pile and perhaps stretch to a V8 Commodore.

Otherwise, I would vote for turbo. The 3.8 isn't too small a motor in terms of capacity to spin a turbo so with a correctly sized unit (or 2!) the lag could be minimized. Once you go turbo you'll never go back.
 
Supercharger all the way for street use, you don't get the lag which also for street use in that car won't be too much of an issue but the power coming in low end will make a big difference. Ofcourse you could try a supercharger and turbo dual setup, but that'd probably be too expensive. I've wondered do thoes setups increase the lag in the turbo though, obviousely the supercharger gives you the lower end power so the lag doesn't really mean much but in terms of the turbo spooling up does a supercharging affect the turbo in any way like that?
 
Y'know, why not throw an electric motor on the blower's input and not worry about power being sapped?

and I dont' mean looking at one of those cheapo plastic units, either.
 
Dave A
I've wondered do thoes setups increase the lag in the turbo though, obviousely the supercharger gives you the lower end power so the lag doesn't really mean much but in terms of the turbo spooling up does a supercharging affect the turbo in any way like that?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be the other way around, i.e. the turbo winds up spooling quicker because of the supercharger? More air being pumped in and out = more to spin the turbo with so...
 
Maybe, but I was thinking that the supercharger saps power from the engine then add more than what it saps (hopefully. But I think you're probably right, the supercharger will be forcing more air through the engine and that's what will spool the turbo. I just wasn't thinking about it properly.
 
Jim Prower
Y'know, why not throw an electric motor on the blower's input and not worry about power being sapped?

and I dont' mean looking at one of those cheapo plastic units, either.
Click to expand...

Now, my knowledge on superchargers is limited but I'll throw in my opinion anyway.

Would it be worth it? An electric motor would need to be fairly powerful anyway to run the blower, as powerful as the power needed from the crank to run the blower, so you'd have the extra weight, the extra cost, etc. You'd still have to find the same amount of power to run the blower, but you'd be creating more weight in finding that extra power.

I suppose the "power sapped rating" would differ from blower to blower,typically about 5%, isn't it?

I don't know, yes it's plausible, but to me it seems like a lot to do something which may not generate much more use, as you have to find the power from somewhere.
 
I've been looking at prices and I've worked that in my price range I can get a V8 model with a Varex exhaust or a V6 model with a supercharger and a Varex exhaust for around the same price. So I think I'll go with the V6.
 
So you'll be making less than V8 power with equal to V8 money? At the same time, the S/C V6 is going to get just as bad of gas mileage and be less reliable. Do they have the same drivetrain? If not, you're likely to start breaking stuff with a modified V6 whose transmission and diff aren't up to the extra torque.
 

Latest Posts

Back