Turning radius issue with Gran Turismo series...

[Garconis]

Ever since the first Gran Turismo (if I remember correctly) -- when you turn the steering (i.e., the front wheels) at slow speed, the wheels turn quite sharp -- but if you start to accelerate while still turning, then the wheels start to turn less and less sharply.

You can easily test this in an open car, such as the FGT. Turn the wheels all the way to one side, and the slowly accelerate while still turning (need a wide track for this). Notice that the wheels start to straighten out on their own. Why?

I used to have a Logitech DFP Wheel, but I don't anymore. I can't remember if it does the same thing when using a wheel to turn -- or if it only does it with a controller. Anyone got any info?

 

[Roush_fan_99]

It could just be PD's way of dealing with minor understeer, but who knows, it's not like you are tire driving 100% of the time....... Unless you are, which is an EXTREMELY bad habit

 

[Techy]

I imagine it's because to control yaw. If the front wheels angle similar to when angled at a full stop, then you'll most likely get a large account of yaw, thus a spin-out. I think in real life the forces acting upon the car (e.g. gravity) will naturally make steering at large inputs very difficult to reach. But in-game the steering radius just limits itself after a certain speed or something like that.


All speculation of course.

 

[MTLclllutch]

its a crutch to help cope with the horrible ds3 remote.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^A lot of people can beat wheel users with the DS3.

Do not underestimate it.

 

[Techy]

its a crutch to help cope with the horrible ds3 remote.

Probably this. But still, I'm not sure if this exists but doesn't the wheel has a bit of resistance when you input a high turning degree at high speeds?

 

[Garconis]

Probably this. But still, I'm not sure if this exists but doesn't the wheel has a bit of resistance when you input a high turning degree at high speeds?

It does, which is why I think if you really wanted to, you could turn the wheel all the way really fast and it'd work like real life (unlike the controller causing the steering to turn less and less as you speed up). It probably is to prevent steering too hard with the controller since the analog stick has such a short distance from lock to lock.

 

[Techy]

It does, which is why I think if you really wanted to, you could turn the wheel all the way really fast and it'd work like real life (unlike the controller causing the steering to turn less and less as you speed up). It probably is to prevent steering too hard with the controller since the analog stick has such a short distance from lock to lock.

Good points. I imagine the resistance came from natural forces like gravity and air flow being applied on the wheels, as I mentioned before. That's why you get full control of turning radius when you're airborne. If it isn't that it's probably to control yaw.

 

[Jay]

This does not happen with a wheel, it's a controller assist. As mentioned it is to prevent excessive steering with the controller.

 

[TheDrummingKING]

Think of it this way: if that didn't happen (as in, the front wheels still turn all the way no matter what speed you're going), and you're heading towards a high speed corner and you press the analog stick all the way, all you would get is under steer (because the tires would be turned so much that it stopped being effective and just lost grip). But because of the aid, the tires only turn as much as they can while still keeping grip (when the analog stick is pressed all the way).

 

[MadBullBunny]

Its for the DS3 controller. I remember trying to figure out why for one of the license events. This guy on a youtube video was using a wheel and he was over powering the steering to get the car turning more sharply around the corner. It was a pain in the arse with a DS3 because you can't do that. A wheel in those situations come out on top if you can use it correctly~

 

[Sach]

^A lot of people can beat wheel users with the DS3.

"Bad" wheel users, you mean.

 

[MadBullBunny]

"Bad" wheel users, you mean.

The DS3 controller is much better then the giant xbox brick remote and way much better then the fairy wands of which the wii uses. Though you can get good with a controller. Practice just as much as someone with a wheel does, it would be a good match still.

 

[Scotracer]

It's called Speed-Sensitive Steering and every PC sim has the option for those using a controller. It's to stop it being incredibly twitchy at higher speeds.

God people call themselves sim fans.

 

[Energizerrr]

Driving with a pad is heavily assisted.
For example you can never experience brake spin-outs.

Its for the DS3 controller. I remember trying to figure out why for one of the license events. This guy on a youtube video was using a wheel and he was over powering the steering to get the car turning more sharply around the corner. It was a pain in the arse with a DS3 because you can't do that. A wheel in those situations come out on top if you can use it correctly~

Works only with SRF enabled, otherwise you'll just get understeer.

 

[HDHSVI]

as far as wheel vs the controller goes I've come to this realization - that there is some things that can be done with a controller that cannot be done with the wheel. take for instance if you look up on the Tuning forum this link

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=173806

about the RM'd '69 Z/28 those guys are posting some unreal times for the Deep Forest track. I'm using a G27 and can't get below 1:13 where those guys with the DS3 are at
1:10 and below. Now I'll tell you straight up I'm not the fastest out there but I believe I'm not slow! What I've found in asking those guys for split times for cirtain points on the track is that I'm right there with them up untill the last two corners.... This is where I think the big differences between the two emerge. with the DS3 they can jam the brakes and slam the wheel to complete lock point in an instant - with the wheel you cannot turn it that fast not even the "Flash" could! but the DS3 gets away with it and the car turns and makes the corner. with the wheel you have to slow down to make both of those turns thus the difference in times.

The other side to this is on the fast tracks like Daytona or Indy the controller cannot "controll" the car with the presision the wheel users do, for most tracks I think the wheel users can be more consistant thus make better overall times than the folks using the DS3.

opinions?

Cya,
Hankster

 

[NFSCARBON1]

It's to make life easier for DS3 users. If the car starts to oversteer the game allows more steering angle to compensate, however sometimes I feel that when a car starts to understeer a little more steering angle would make it better.
I find turning Steering control (?) up to 7 allows you a little more steering angle than lower settings.

 

[MadBullBunny]

Driving with a pad is heavily assisted.
For example you can never experience brake spin-outs.



Works only with SRF enabled, otherwise you'll just get understeer.

Yah no. I'm not blind. The wheel has more of a turning advantage over the controller with being able to turn more sharply at higher speeds. Licenses were done with out any assists. I used the guys videos when I did most of them to get a base idea of what needed to be done.

 

[shmogt]

This is a LSD thing. When you step on the gas the wheels start spinning and go straight. If your turning your radius will be shortened as its trying to go straight but also trying to make the turn. A lot of cars it's better to have a higher LSD and just let off the gas and let it coast around the apex than once your relatively straight hit the gas to power a way. I run into this problem a lot when tuning cars for racing and you will notice it at every corner no matter how wide the corner is if you drive the car looking for small differences to change settings later. You can also change the suspension to compensate but not as much as LSD

 

[hsdioce]

Are you holding the wheel at full lock while accelerating? Because I know in reality without holding the wheel, the wheels will straighten up, no matter what the car, but its just physics that make the car turn less while accelerating, thats just kinda what happens

 

[Pyle_PMG]

This does not happen with a wheel, it's a controller assist. As mentioned it is to prevent excessive steering with the controller.

Think of it this way: if that didn't happen (as in, the front wheels still turn all the way no matter what speed you're going), and you're heading towards a high speed corner and you press the analog stick all the way, all you would get is under steer (because the tires would be turned so much that it stopped being effective and just lost grip). But because of the aid, the tires only turn as much as they can while still keeping grip (when the analog stick is pressed all the way).

These people are right.
The rest of the members here are getting confused with other things. We are talking about the controller, not the in-game physics.

 

[Griffith500]

Indeed, GT has always had speed sensitive steering. It's because the faster you go, the larger the minimum turning radius becomes (ignoring aero) because the force required to turn at a given rate (i.e. in a corner of given radius) increases with (the square of the) speed, but the car only has finite grip.
It would be "pointless" to try to turn tighter than this grip limit would allow, although I think since GT4 maximum available lock has been just over that limit, forcing you to be more precise.

At least now there's a sensitivity option that allows for faster movement of the steering on the controller; it was too slow before, and too fast in previous games.
I'm a wheel user nowadays, though.

 

[TheDrummingKING]

Dammit Griffith, you always know how to explain things too well. You said what I was trying to, in a way I simply cannot.

 

[speedthrill]

These people are right.
The rest of the members here are getting confused with other things. We are talking about the controller, not the in-game physics.

I must say i actually had this happen to me a week ago, with a wheel, but could this be because i use my DS3 on slot 1 to text message quickly online, and the wheel on slot 2?

I'm wondering now...hnn

 

[Pyle_PMG]

I must say i actually had this happen to me a week ago, with a wheel, but could this be because i use my DS3 on slot 1 to text message quickly online, and the wheel on slot 2?

I'm wondering now...hnn

Maybe you're getting confused with the interior view problem. The man cannot turn his steering wheel farther than 90 degrees in-game interior view. But when viewed from the outside, it turns more than 90 degrees.

 

[Griffith500]

Dammit Griffith, you always know how to explain things too well. You said what I was trying to, in a way I simply cannot.

I don't think we said too much different, now that I look at it!
Besides, I was a bit wordy, and made a small mistake

 

[speedthrill]

Maybe you're getting confused with the interior view problem. The man cannot turn his steering wheel farther than 90 degrees in-game interior view. But when viewed from the outside, it turns more than 90 degrees.

No, i meant that's what happend to me, the F1 GT had the wheel turning more on slower speeds then when going faster, while my wheel was still turned full lock, that's what i meant, maybe it's on both DS3 and wheel, unless like i said, it was because my controller was in slot 1.

We're talking about the ratio on the wheels itself, like OP. (bonnet view on the F1)

 

[gtnoobie]

Yah no. I'm not blind. The wheel has more of a turning advantage over the controller with being able to turn more sharply at higher speeds. Licenses were done with out any assists. I used the guys videos when I did most of them to get a base idea of what needed to be done.

Btw, licenses are srf on by default and cannot be switched off.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Early on I started saving online races and watching replays when I lost to someone faster than me as a way to learn and get better. I would often see someone with a DS3 doing things in a car that I could not on certain corners, like making direction changes much more rapidly than I can, making corrections that I could not. I do believe the game does make certain allowances in programming for DS3 users and I also believe it's effect is not consistent as some of the above posters have indicated. It is often helpful on one or two corners.

The trade off of course, is that with faster cars or cars requiring more precision, wheel users have a slight advantage. I'd never go back to a DS3, much prefer the wheel for realism, but I race against really good DS3 drivers all the time and it's very competitive. I think PD has done a pretty good job to be quite honest in equalizing both types of players, it just shows up more on certain cars/tracks, which is to be expected.

 

[Seismica]

It sounds to me like an in-built assist that you have with the controller. I found tight corners like hairpins and chicanes so difficult with the DS3, it is quite possible that with partial throttle at a decent apex speed, the game won't let you go full lock no matter how much you are 'turning' the analogue stick.

Having said that, I have a habbit of being so smooth on the wheel that I forget to go full lock at times. Good for my tyres I guess