Tyre choice seems futile in endurance races?

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the_trev

the_trev

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the_trev2
Evening all, first post and I hope it hasn't already been looked into: I've done a quick search and can't really find anything in depth about this.

I've done some testing regarding the tyre wear during the endurance races. At first I was a bit unsure and I still feel I'm doing something wrong, but it seems that there is little to no point in choosing hard tyres for endurance races.

The first case in noticed this, I was in the Minolta Toyota 88C-V doing the Indy 500. Running racing / hard, all aids off. I managed about 20-25 laps before I needed to pit. The tyres never locked or blistered, and as standard with the oval tracks the right tyres wore down quicker than the left ones. Second time I did this race, I changed to racing / soft. As so obviously predicted, the grip was phenomenal, but the tyres lasted for exactly the same amount of time than the hards. No settings on the car had changed, and my driving style hadn't adjusted at all bar the fact that i didn't need to brake when the tyres were at the end of the life.

Okay, maybe not the same amount of time. About 2 more laps.

Then I tried the intermediates. The same as the softs, but the tread drop off was earlier, making it nearly impossible to control. I started to try this is other cars, of all forms. the Roadster on the 4-hour tsukuba circuit, a rear wheel drive car, had to change the tyres every 40 minutes for both soft and hard.

Grand Valley, Nissan GT-R (also FR), same. Laguna Seca, Peugeot 908c FAP (MR, LMP), same.

Every combination I tried, the exact same happened. I tried different mixes of aids (TCS, ABS and such were either at 0, 5 or 8), all the same: the ultimatum is that it doesn't matter what tyre choice you use, the tyre wear between all the racing spec options (which I'm assuming you'd be using for endurance races) are a few laps at the most. Also, I have tried multiple tracks as I know that obviously some will wear down in different ways due to the layout of a track: for example, GVS has a lot of long sweeping bends which just ask for loss of grip, whereas Indy is simple and forthcoming.

The only thing I can think that this may be is the fact I'm using a controller: however, my argument against that is I use both analog sticks to drive, and only use full lock when need (the indy race has helped me practice turning like that). But even then, surely the tyre wear would be different when using the same driving style for all tyre choices?

In closing, yes, there are differences: but not the massive gaps that you would expect. Coming from a person who's played GT since the first iteration, there used to be a gap of 5 laps for softs and 20-30 for hards.

Any thoughts?
 
The only race I tested it on there was a big difference. It was the first endurance race and my softs were really struggling after 8 laps but the hards lasted well into the teens before I started to lose traction. The ninth lap on the softs was a joke to try and control especially braking.
 
the-trev, excellent first post.👍

I share your observations almost exactly. At GVS, I could get almost double the mileage from soft as I could from hard tires. It's indeed a goofy artifact of the game, but at least it makes the tire choice more obvious.
 
GT tire wear/strategy has always been terrible

In GT4 and GT5 theres never any advantage in using hard tires, you lose too much time. Needs to be patched. I suggest giving hard tires more grip and durability to make them useful
 
It's true, softs lap faster and do last at least as long as hards.
 
Stotty
It's true, softs lap faster and do last at least as long as hards.
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I noticed in the high powered cars, I was spinning the tyres a lot on hard tyres due to lower grip levels, this quickly destroyed the tyres.

I have found hard tyres can be treated in a way which makes them last longer than the softs could. However, overall the soft tyres gained so much time over their hard counterparts, that the extra few laps saved by the hard tyres weren't worth the time gained by saving one pitstop over the course of the race.
 
Stevisiov
I noticed in the high powered cars, I was spinning the tyres a lot on hard tyres due to lower grip levels, this quickly destroyed the tyres.

I have found hard tyres can be treated in a way which makes them last longer than the softs could. However, overall the soft tyres gained so much time over their hard counterparts, that the extra few laps saved by the hard tyres weren't worth the time gained by saving one pitstop over the course of the race.
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Also true 👍

Though the patience required to drive something powerful on hards at a pace neccessary not to spin them up makes the experience painful :lol:
 
My only tyre test was on the Indy 500. I was in a fully upgraded Minolta Toyota.

I started the race on Racing Mediums and was keeping a watchful eye on the worst tyre. Lap 31 there was a noticeable amount on that gauge so I passed the Pits and went into Lap 32 with a couple of laps lead. Turn 3 on Lap 32 I was OK, the gauge was still registering some tyre, or so I thought, as the car let go at Turn 4 and I had to limp to the pits as the car was pretty much uncontrollable. I emerged with Racing Softs in 7th place. I was able to do 25 laps comfortably on those but would not have wanted to try very many more laps as the gauge after 25 was pretty far down. Needless to say with a comfortable 25 laps (and flat out for the duration of the lap which was not possible with the Mediums) I will be using Softs when I repeat the Indy for some Exp.
 
The thing with softs is they retain grip much further down the wear bar... so half wear on softs still allows lap times as quick as new hards. And as hards deteriorate the times drop off much further.

Softs are, IMO, the only way to go on Endurance racing unless you're looking for an extra challenge.
 
The wear rate only really changes when it comes to wheelspin/sliding. Soft tyres suffer MUCH more when you spin the wheels than hard tyres do, so smooth drivers will notice less difference in compounds (other than overall grip) than people with an aggressive style who occasionally break traction.
 
Softs are way too grippy! If anything softs need to be toned well back grip wise. Doing this will help equalise things.
Run a 300+ HP Clio V6 on Softs and you'll be hard pressed to over steer with it under normal circumstances
 
Earth
In GT4 and GT5 theres never any advantage in using hard tires, you lose too much time. Needs to be patched. I suggest giving hard tires more grip and durability to make them useful
Click to expand...

I'd say that's backwards, no? Durability versus grip should be the main trade-off on soft versus hard tires with medium splitting the difference each way.
 
I noticed something like this the other day, on the Grand Valley endurance (first one I just unlocked). Or maybe it was Laguna Seca.. I dunno. I was using Hard tires, and the rear tires were wearing faster than the front, so when I first pitted I put Softs on the front, for some extra grip in the corners, thinking that they should wear out about the same. No change.. they were down the same percentage the next time I pitted.

On Indy it hasn't been an issue.. I run out of gas first, so I have to pit long before my tires wear out. FGT burns through gas pretty quick when you go flat-out. Kind of annoying, now that I think about it.. there's no "gas-and-go" option for pit stops.. you HAVE to get new tires every time.
 
I noticed since the 1st time I started endurance races, going few laps with Medium and soft, seeing the durability almost the same, I decided to keep using soft, since I can do faster pace.
 
I've got the same experience as you, OP.

The tire differences were more distinct in earlier GTs.
 
Yep same here softs all the way, I tried the first enduro with hards and it was painfully slow, took a gamble on the next one with softs going for better lap times and more stops if necessary, but more stops were not necessary lol.
 
I tried out softs, mediums and hards on the first endurance race and reached this conclusion: the wear was the same or very similar and the softs were obviously the fastest so since then I have always used softs.
 
The way tyres work in GT5 is completely wrong and much worse than just comparing racing compounds. Obviously there is also the 'use slicks in the wet' when in Aspec, but I also noticed this;

When grinding BSpec at Indy in the FGT I once left Sports Soft on by mistake. I only noticed at the end and my race time was identical to using Racing Softs !

Another reason why GT5 has really hurt my faith in the GT brand.

Someone should lock Kaz in a room and make him play GT5 until all races events are gold so he can see what he has done to the GT brand.
 
For me the softs last longer than the hards. i think i have more wheel spin, oversteer/understeer and general handling problems on the hard that causes them to wear faster. What is wrong with the game.

And also why do the tyres constantly smoke if you make them red.
 
My reply does not concern wear but I did a test with a stock EvoIX on Tsukuba going from comfort soft tires through all the sport tires up to racing hard and I gained just about 1.3 seconds per lap with the next tire with more grip.
(In Forza3 I remember only gaining a few tenths if at all per better tire. I don't race in real life so I don't know which one is more realistic but I hope its GT5 cause I like that game much more).
There were always complaints and dicussions about tires in the GT series so I think PD never got that aspect right (and tires are one of the most important aspects). Maybe there will be a patch/update for tire behavior and wear and in GT6 it will all be completely different again.
I saw a video with an EvoX doing a 1.50+ time at Laguna in real life. My first lap with mistakes was a 1.40 in-game on sport hards. Wonder what kind of crappy comfort tires I gotta put on to get close to the real time. (I know times in a game will always be a bit faster).
 
Driver46
I did a test with a stock EvoIX on Tsukuba
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Out of interest what option dd you use; low or real ?

All of the problems discussed here and in other previous threads about tyres and tyre wear seem to come from Aspec and Bspec races where low is used by default (and low seems to mean off). It sort of gives the impression that Aspec and Bspec are more arcade than sim races, ie a poor implementation.
 
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Jedi2016
I noticed something like this the other day, on the Grand Valley endurance (first one I just unlocked). Or maybe it was Laguna Seca.. I dunno. I was using Hard tires, and the rear tires were wearing faster than the front, so when I first pitted I put Softs on the front, for some extra grip in the corners, thinking that they should wear out about the same. No change.. they were down the same percentage the next time I pitted.

On Indy it hasn't been an issue.. I run out of gas first, so I have to pit long before my tires wear out. FGT burns through gas pretty quick when you go flat-out. Kind of annoying, now that I think about it.. there's no "gas-and-go" option for pit stops.. you HAVE to get new tires every time.
Click to expand...

I believe there is also an option to keep your tyres, so you don't need to change tyres everytime you make a pit stop.:) But I'll have to check to verify.:)
 
StevenDunn99
The way tyres work in GT5 is completely wrong and much worse than just comparing racing compounds. Obviously there is also the 'use slicks in the wet' when in Aspec, but I also noticed this;

When grinding BSpec at Indy in the FGT I once left Sports Soft on by mistake. I only noticed at the end and my race time was identical to using Racing Softs !

Another reason why GT5 has really hurt my faith in the GT brand.

Someone should lock Kaz in a room and make him play GT5 until all races events are gold so he can see what he has done to the GT brand.
Click to expand...

Your faith in the GT brand is hurt by tire simulation? :lol:
 
StevenDunn99
Out of interest what option dd you use; low or real ?

All of the problems discussed here and in other previous threads about tyres and tyre wear seem to come from Aspec and Bspec races where low is used by default (and low seems to mean off). It sort of gives the impression that Aspec and Bspec are more arcade than sim races, ie a poor implementation.
Click to expand...

I believe it was real, just because I usually set it to real except I forgot.
I don't even know what that means but "real" just sounds better :)
 
Killa Aaron
Your faith in the GT brand is hurt by tire simulation? :lol:
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:lol: plus a LOT of other things. The whole package that is GT5 is so poor.

P.S There is no fuel only pit stop option. A real pain at eg GVS where it takes a couple of laps to warm up tyres and one set could easily last a lot longer.
 
Interesting thread.

I think softs do work out better, but having just completed my first endurance race i can say this:

  • Hard tires do last longer, but not by much if driven conservatively
  • Soft tires are really easy to wear out. Hards can take much more punishment (useful when using no assists)
  • fuel load seems to affect soft tires more
 
LOL.

OP really should try racing NASCAR at Nordschleife. Had a server opened running with racing hard, the half life of the tires are 2 laps.....
 
Stune
  • Soft tires are really easy to wear out. Hards can take much more punishment (useful when using no assists)
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It is interesting you said this, as I found almost identical research into the drop-off points when I altered the driving style.

The hards seems to very gradually reduce grip, which although makes the final few laps before pitting so much fun (waheeeeeeeey), it's a far cry from the softs where you can pinpoint the exact moment everything goes a bit awry. I think this is the only crucial difference in the tyre choice, and personally I can only justify this by the driving style the player has. Otherwise, the whole issue of tyre wear that was so prominent in previous games (remember MX-5 racing around Apricot Hill in Gt3?) has all but completely disappeared with no explanation.

It's such a shame, as the only challenge in the enduros is staying awake.
 
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